USA Today rankings 12-03

[consumerman]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/football/poll/2007-super25.htm

SLC is not even regionally ranked

how does that work in human polls when you ranking is non-existant?

[Fightingfor7crusader]

Byrnes in the top 25 at all would be a crime, let alone at #13, they barely beat a mediocre Ohio team who lost 31 - 6 in the playoffs.

[consumerman]

Byrnes in the top 25 at all would be a crime, let alone at #13, they barely beat a mediocre Ohio team who lost 31 - 6 in the playoffs.

and x barely beat a team that lost 3 games

took hem 3 overtimes

[Fightingfor7crusader]

and x barely beat a team that lost 3 games

took hem 3 overtimes

Byrnes beat Centerville 39 - 38, X beat Centeville 31 - 6 and was winning 31 - 0 at he half. X is likely more that 8 places better Byrnes. Xs' schedule is way tougher than Byrnes'. I'm not ripping Cali teams here because I think they're legit, but Byrnes is a fraud to me.

[Fightingfor7crusader]

and x barely beat a team that lost 3 games

took hem 3 overtimes

Xs' starting and star RB was out many games, including Dematha and X still dominated. X had to replace their starting QB with a sophmore against Iggy.
I think there is at least 10 teams in Ohio alone that would beat Byrnes.

[NorrisHopper30]

Xs' starting and star RB was out many games, including Dematha and X still dominated. X had to replace their starting QB with a sophmore against Iggy.
I think there is at least 10 teams in Ohio alone that would beat Byrnes.

Don't argue with DLS kid, you can't win.

[consumerman]

Xs' starting and star RB was out many games, including Dematha and X still dominated. X had to replace their starting QB with a sophmore against Iggy.
I think there is at least 10 teams in Ohio alone that would beat Byrnes.

hehe

when ohio teams travel 1000s of miles that would balance things out a little dont you think

[Fightingfor7crusader]

hehe

when ohio teams travel 1000s of miles that would balance things out a little dont you think

Hmm I went to Australia last summer, and i didn't have jetleg or anything. If I can travel half way around the world and still be in my element then shouldn't other highschool kids traveling a fraction of that distance be able to as well. They didn't even have to leave their time zone to play in Ohio. The coaches of traveling teams should be able to ensure that their players are properly rested and prepared to travel. I'm confident that many Ohio teams could travel to NC and beat Byrnes. Traveling from Cali to Ohio is another story. Seriously though, do you think Byrnes is #13 material?

BTW Byrnes isn't over a thousand miles from Ohio let alone thousands

[consumerman]

so what is the national ranking of slc in the human poll if usa today does not even have them regionally ranked

[fish82]

hehe

when ohio teams travel 1000s of miles that would balance things out a little dont you think

Not necessarily. An overnight trip is an overnight trip, which Ohio teams do routinely....both regular season and playoffs.

[Chicago]

I have never even heard of jetleg.

Is it serious?

Congratulations on your apparent immunity, though.

[concha]

hehe

when ohio teams travel 1000s of miles that would balance things out a little dont you think

Depends.

Are the kids hitchhiking? Walking? Taking a bus. Using those newfangled aero-planes?

[concha]

so what is the national ranking of slc in the human poll if usa today does not even have them regionally ranked

I believe calpreps counts a non-top 25, non-rgional ranking as 50 points in their system. Just a reference point.

[fish82]

I have never even heard of jetleg.

Is it serious?

Congratulations on your apparent immunity, though.

lol.... touche. Although I think it's overrated. 24 hours at the destination is more than enough time to fix it.

[JuniorVarsityHughes]

"when ohio teams travel 1000s of miles that would balance things out a little dont you think" I think that it may come into play but I don't know that Ohio should be continually ripped on by you (consumerman) for hosting the biggest high school football event of the year. Ohio plays some of the best competition to get better and to see how they stack up, not to try to get a leg up in SOS and play at home. If you don't like that the teams from Ohio benefit from this then you are just bitter.

"and x barely beat a team that lost 3 games
took hem 3 overtimes" This awful team lost to the Ohio State Champion, Finalist
for two of their losses. And that is why St. X dropped in one poll. MNW beat SLC by one score (SLC is no longer ranked) so by your calculations MNW is overrated too. By continuing to repeat this you only sound ignorant, like this one game showed the ability of St. X. DLS's opponents are 4 games over .500, X's are 89 games over .500.

[consumerman]

DLS's opponents are 4 games over .500, X's are 89 games over .500.

DLS beat Mission Viejo 35-7 on a 500 mile road trip

Mission Viejo beat an Ohio GCL Region 4 playoff team (that won an Ohio playoff game) on a 2000 mile road trip

On St X one road trip (what 250 miles?) they took three overtimes to beat a 3 loss team that previously lost by 17

[Jesse]

Not necessarily. An overnight trip is an overnight trip, which Ohio teams do routinely....both regular season and playoffs.


When you find evidence of an Ohio team in the past 60 years traveling "to" Texas, Florida, California, Georgia, or Alabama, and playing a ranked or unranked team from either of those 5 states please kindly provide the names of the teams involved, date and year, and score please. :shrug:

[Jesse]

Depends.

Are the kids hitchhiking? Walking? Taking a bus. Using those newfangled aero-planes?


Rumour has it that NASA is spending mucho amounts of our money exploring the advantages of teleportation:angel:

[Bordertown]

Consumerman, I am glad you are having a good time over the loss by 16 to 18 year old kids from your favorite community in Texas. Your team has a great record. But in using the California systems - Calpreps, SLC played a more difficult schedule. SLC played the #50 (in which the human poll you referenced has as #1), the #120, #317 & #683 teams in the nation. There strength of schedule is 31.6. DLS the school you follow in cyberspace has a rating of 25.3 and has played the #276, #588 & #861 teams in the land. DLS had a shot at SLC in 2007 and declined the invite, so I am not sure which team is better.

By the way St as a schedule rating of 51.6. While I have read on numerous occasions your lack of respect of their schedule, they have played 5 teams rated in the top 100, 12 games with teams in the top 250 and all but one team rated in the top 1000. Please give St X the props the deserve and quit undermining the season they completed.

It is a horrible feeling to think your gut is rooting for a team to lose in California, but for your humility I hope it occurs.

[EaglePride01]

When you find evidence of an Ohio team in the past 60 years traveling "to" Texas, Florida, California, Georgia, or Alabama, and playing a ranked or unranked team from either of those 5 states please kindly provide the names of the teams involved, date and year, and score please. :shrug:

Unfortunately, OHSAA Bylaws forbid it:

2) Out of State Travel
A football team may travel out of state to compete in contests (scrimmages, previews and
games) in states or provinces in Canada that are contiguous to Ohio regardless of distance
to travel. The states include Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Pennsylvania and West
Virginia. The province includes Ontario. Additionally, a football team may travel out of
state one time per sport per interscholastic season to compete in states or provinces in
Canada that are not contiguous to Ohio, provided there is no loss of school time.

So as long as this bylaw is in effect, Ohio teams will not be allowed to travel down south (or any state that is not contiguous) to play a game. To get a crack at us you have to come up here. Its kind of like the mentality of the SEC!

[Jesse]

Unfortunately, OHSAA Bylaws forbid it:

2) Out of State Travel
A football team may travel out of state to compete in contests (scrimmages, previews and
games) in states or provinces in Canada that are contiguous to Ohio regardless of distance
to travel. The states include Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Pennsylvania and West
Virginia. The province includes Ontario. Additionally, a football team may travel out of
state one time per sport per interscholastic season to compete in states or provinces in
Canada that are not contiguous to Ohio, provided there is no loss of school time.

So as long as this bylaw is in effect, Ohio teams will not be allowed to travel down south (or any state that is not contiguous) to play a game. To get a crack at us you have to come up here. Its kind of like the mentality of the SEC!


I just don't minimize the travel effect on high school kids.Evenly matched teams can usually count on a 7 pt advantage. At least that much for a HS game.

[concha]

consumerman compensates for DLS's cupcake schedule this year by humping any potential fault he can find in X's season. Laughable.

[consumerman]

Consumerman, I am glad you are having a good time over the loss by 16 to 18 year old kids from your favorite community in Texas. Your team has a great record. But in using the California systems - Calpreps, SLC played a more difficult schedule. SLC played the #50 (in which the human poll you referenced has as #1), the #120, #317 & #683 teams in the nation. There strength of schedule is 31.6. DLS the school you follow in cyberspace has a rating of 25.3 and has played the #276, #588 & #861 teams in the land. DLS had a shot at SLC in 2007 and declined the invite, so I am not sure which team is better.

By the way St as a schedule rating of 51.6. While I have read on numerous occasions your lack of respect of their schedule, they have played 5 teams rated in the top 100, 12 games with teams in the top 250 and all but one team rated in the top 1000. Please give St X the props the deserve and quit undermining the season they completed.

It is a horrible feeling to think your gut is rooting for a team to lose in California, but for your humility I hope it occurs.

so answer the question

how do you rate a team in a human poll when they arent even regionally raned?

[consumerman]

consumerman compensates for DLS's cupcake schedule this year by humping any potential fault he can find in X's season. Laughable.

the fault is miniscule

for those of you with short term memory loss or lack of reading comprehension and/or those named concha...

I have posted on this board that 2007 st x is as desrving of a number 1 ranking as any team any year

concah you responded to that post so I ASSUME you read it

and quit using the word hump, it sends chills over most non-gay men

[SVILLEBIGRED]

I'm not completely surprised by the results.... I guess their not too bad.

[fish82]

I just don't minimize the travel effect on high school kids.Evenly matched teams can usually count on a 7 pt advantage. At least that much for a HS game.

And your professional bookmaker friends (who handicap HS football) have confirmed that number?

[PDC]

Moeller won that game technically, but lost by four on the field...

Against X they got owned, there really was no point in the game was in question...

You bring up Ignatius all the time...:rolleyes:...ever just think:

a. Gee, maybe they were good
b. X's QB was a frosh and inexperienced

??????????????

Agreed.

While Ignatius is certainly nothing close to the 90s version, the Wildcats are still a tough opponent. It's not like St X barely beat a Cleveland Senate League school.

Remember the 90s??? When Ignatius wanted to play De LaSalle and the Spartans wouldn't do it?

[Bordertown]

so answer the question

how do you rate a team in a human poll when they arent even regionally raned?


They weren't ranked. So what is your point? I point out SLC is no longer ranked? That is how I read your post. They lost to two teams ranked higher than anyone DLS has played and they lost their QB in the 2nd quarter. At that level of play, I suspect almost any team including DLS would have issues with "timing" on their offense.

[Chicago]

Is that Ohio travel rule just for high schools, or does it count for colleges, too?

I was wondering why OSU played Youngstown State, Akron, and Kent State.

My apologies to UncleBaldy for the college crossover.

[Jesse]

And your professional bookmaker friends (who handicap HS football) have confirmed that number?

You and I both know handicapping hs games does happen in some locales much as "policy" still exists in inner cities in spite of state lotteries.
Danny Sheridan was asked a "hypothetical" question several years ago about home field advantage in hs games.His quite serious answer was "10 pts, maybe more".

[fish82]

You and I both know handicapping hs games does happen in some locales much as "policy" still exists in inner cities in spite of state lotteries.
Danny Sheridan was asked a "hypothetical" question several years ago about home field advantage in hs games.His quite serious answer was "10 pts, maybe more".

IF it's done, (and I've not seen it done in Ohio, at least by any "real" bookmakers) then its probably done badly. And for what it's worth, Danny Sheridan probably knows as much about HS football as I do about brain surgery.

[concha]

I understand hard data from calpreps indicates an away disadvantage of around 3 points. Longer travel may increase that somewhat. But let's not get carried away.

[consumerman]

Moeller won that game technically, but lost by four on the field...

Against X they got owned, there really was no point in the game was in question...

You bring up Ignatius all the time...:rolleyes:...ever just think:

a. Gee, maybe they were good
b. X's QB was a frosh and inexperienced

??????????????

now X QB is a frosh

I guess next week he will be in first grade

what grade was the iggy QB?

[consumerman]

Agreed.

While Ignatius is certainly nothing close to the 90s version, the Wildcats are still a tough opponent. It's not like St X barely beat a Cleveland Senate League school.

Remember the 90s??? When Ignatius wanted to play De LaSalle and the Spartans wouldn't do it?

NO

you are talking out your arse

[consumerman]

They weren't ranked. So what is your point? I point out SLC is no longer ranked? That is how I read your post. They lost to two teams ranked higher than anyone DLS has played and they lost their QB in the 2nd quarter. At that level of play, I suspect almost any team including DLS would have issues with "timing" on their offense.

here come the excuses

so where do you rank a team in the human polls that isnt even regionally ranked?

you gonna finally try and answer or keep the excuses coming?

and PS 4-5 wide receiver offenses and winging the ball wildly downfield is great against weak no D teams but also leaves your QB vulnerable to serious injury

high reward high risk

I am not surprised he got hurt

[consumerman]

Is that Ohio travel rule just for high schools, or does it count for colleges, too?

I was wondering why OSU played Youngstown State, Akron, and Kent State.

My apologies to UncleBaldy for the college crossover.

because they are tougher than big 10 opponents

[Jesse]

I understand hard data from calpreps indicates an away disadvantage of around 3 points. Longer travel may increase that somewhat. But let's not get carried away.


Agreed.

[consumerman]

I wonder if daditis still thinks SLC would beat DLS by a minimum of 28 this year

LMAO

[PDC]

NO

you are talking out your arse


Of course I am, because you say so.

[SLCDad]

I wonder if daditis still thinks SLC would beat DLS by a minimum of 28 this year

LMAO

A healthy SLC would beat DLS by 50. :D :D :D

[ColerainWinsAgain]

Is that Ohio travel rule just for high schools, or does it count for colleges, too?

I was wondering why OSU played Youngstown State, Akron, and Kent State.

My apologies to UncleBaldy for the college crossover.

Ohh, Oh man, that's a burn right there...

[pied]

I wonder if daditis still thinks SLC would beat DLS by a minimum of 28 this year

LMAO

A year ago, I think they win by 10-14. The way DLS is playing now, I would favor a healthy Dragon team by a small margin, let's say three. I'd probably feel the same way about a SLC-St. X matchup as well.

Fact is they are not healthy and have not been, so I think DLS/St. X would ROLL them if they played this weekend.

[pied]

Unfortunately, OHSAA Bylaws forbid it:

2) Out of State Travel
A football team may travel out of state to compete in contests (scrimmages, previews and
games) in states or provinces in Canada that are contiguous to Ohio regardless of distance
to travel. The states include Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Pennsylvania and West
Virginia. The province includes Ontario. Additionally, a football team may travel out of
state one time per sport per interscholastic season to compete in states or provinces in
Canada that are not contiguous to Ohio, provided there is no loss of school time.

So as long as this bylaw is in effect, Ohio teams will not be allowed to travel down south (or any state that is not contiguous) to play a game. To get a crack at us you have to come up here. Its kind of like the mentality of the SEC!


This fact puts the Ohio guys in a good position if they choose it. They can't(for most practical purposes) go to FL/TX/CA, but still talk up a storm. All games between OH and any of those states will be played in Ohio and they can call people chicken for not coming.

When games like Lamar-Rutherford, Dallas Carter-Miami Southridge, ECA-DLS, MNW-SLC, or Midland Lee-Clovis Whatever, the promoters simply cannot consider an Ohio team as likely to pursue as the others because of this rule.

[concha]

This fact puts the Ohio guys in a good position if they choose it. They can't(for most practical purposes) go to FL/TX/CA, but still talk up a storm. All games between OH and any of those states will be played in Ohio and they can call people chicken for not coming.

When games like Lamar-Rutherford, Dallas Carter-Miami Southridge, ECA-DLS, MNW-SLC, or Midland Lee-Clovis Whatever, the promoters simply cannot consider an Ohio team as likely to pursue as the others because of this rule.

The rule is the rule. It has been in place for a long time and i believe was actually relaxed recently.

Ohio teams can and do still play in 5 other states. Distances can be long (ex. Philadelphia by bus).


Also, at least as far as the Herbie is concerned, Ohio pits one state's teams versus the rest of the country's. Home field or not, that's stepping up.

[pied]

The rule is the rule. It has been in place for a long time and i believe was actually relaxed recently.

Ohio teams can and do still play in 5 other states. Distances can be long (ex. Philadelphia by bus).


Also, at least as far as the Herbie is concerned, Ohio pits one state's teams versus the rest of the country's. Home field or not, that's stepping up.

No doubt, the big Ohio powers play who they can no fear there. Forgive me, but PA/WV/IN/KY/MI/CA don't offer as much elite competition you could find in FL/TX/CA.

Some posters, not you, try to indicate teams are afraid to play an Ohio team knowing they can run behind mama's skirt(OHSSA rule) at any time.

[EaglePride01]

This fact puts the Ohio guys in a good position if they choose it. They can't(for most practical purposes) go to FL/TX/CA, but still talk up a storm. All games between OH and any of those states will be played in Ohio and they can call people chicken for not coming.

When games like Lamar-Rutherford, Dallas Carter-Miami Southridge, ECA-DLS, MNW-SLC, or Midland Lee-Clovis Whatever, the promoters simply cannot consider an Ohio team as likely to pursue as the others because of this rule.

Agreed.

And I dont understand or agree with the bylaw. Ohio basketball, wrestling, and many other sports are allowed to travel all over the country to compete in tournaments. Perhaps they may change their mind if another state were to host a large scale nationally-publicized event such as the Herbie, and multiple Ohio teams were invited instead of just a head-to-head matchup.

[Chicago]

I'm waiting for this headline:

Model UN moved to Cleveland -- Ohio kids can't travel, still want to participate.

[twbb]

Chicago, to answer your question. The Ohio State Legislature requires OSU to play teams such as Akron and others for something to do with money. I asked my dad the same question a few days ago and that is what he told me.

[fish82]

This fact puts the Ohio guys in a good position if they choose it. They can't(for most practical purposes) go to FL/TX/CA, but still talk up a storm. All games between OH and any of those states will be played in Ohio and they can call people chicken for not coming.

When games like Lamar-Rutherford, Dallas Carter-Miami Southridge, ECA-DLS, MNW-SLC, or Midland Lee-Clovis Whatever, the promoters simply cannot consider an Ohio team as likely to pursue as the others because of this rule.

Yet another reason that it rocks to be from Ohio! :thumb:

And I agree that the rule is silly. As stated, other sports seemingly can travel freely about the US to play. Why not football?

[Chicago]

I have a feeling that the Ohio legislature is loaded with OSU guys.

[twbb]

No clue if it is or not. Im a huge OSU fan. I would love for them to play SEC teams though. I admit to the facts that SEC is insane and unreal which is why I would like OSU to play them. I would rather them lose to a good team by a little than destroy a crap team.

The bylaw sucks in my opinion. I would love to see schools travel. Im sure the kids would love to especially to somewhere like Cali or Florida.

[Chicago]

The book on Moeller and Faust has a big discussion about an offer Moeller got to play in Japan (maybe against a California school), and how Faust and the OHSAA went back and forth about it. Moeller ended up not going.

[pied]

Yet another reason that it rocks to be from Ohio! :thumb:

And I agree that the rule is silly. As stated, other sports seemingly can travel freely about the US to play. Why not football?

I'll be honest I have no issue with the rule. I am glad that Texas does not have it, but believe that the powers that be have good reason for it. I know it is not because they are chicken to have the good Ohio squads from proving their mettle 1,000 miles away.

I do think that you need to understand how/why teams in each state schedule the way they do. In the other thread Specht appears to echo Dodge's comment about preferring to play local teams. It is not the hand they are dealt.

Bottom line, is you cannot apply your state's scheduling practices to other states.

[twbb]

That is extremely stupid. If a school from your state has a chance to play overseas, why not let them? I find it ridiculous.

[pied]

Bigger question would be, if Chicago accompanied them on the trip them would he be able to find enough KFC's/McDonald's to keep him nourished.....

[Chicago]

http://www.mcdonalds.co.jp/

[D-Swizzel102]

State Champs.

[Bordertown]

I wonder if daditis still thinks SLC would beat DLS by a minimum of 28 this year

LMAO

Wouldn't you have like to have known? Well MNW got the opportunity instead. I doubt SLC thought much about DLS after they declined an invitation.

By the way I am not making excuses for SLC, they were beat 2X. I am pointing out my experience of watching all levels of football, when a QB goes down and the backup comes in, the timing of any offense is affected by the timing. Even protected QBs get hurt by superior defenses and fluke things happen on a playing field such as a QB breaking his hand on an offensive lineman's helmet on a follow through.

[WoodyHayes]

There are some pretty darn good teams in 1-5. Miami N'Wstrn looked pretty good. I did not see Prattville but based on a down Hoover team taking Colerain to the ends of the earth, I have to believe Prattville is pretty good. St. X and Katy would be one boring game to watch. But they both keep winning even if it is not an aerial circus. I like MNw at 1, but any of the first 5 to me would be just fine. I think they are all pretty darn good. I believe the luster has been taken off of MNW win against "unranked" Southlake Carroll. I said all year they should not have been ranked. I would have no argument of the first five being placed in any order.
Based on schedule and the fact that X made it without the starting QB and one of the premier backs in the state for several games a piece is pretty impressive. They may have been one of the few teams anywhere that could have pulled that off. I was not an X fan nor am I, but it is pretty impressive to me what they did. This also takes away the argument some teams have when losing about injuries, and woulda, coulda, shoulda.

[Price_Hillbilly]

There are some pretty darn good teams in 1-5. Miami N'Wstrn looked pretty good. I did not see Prattville but based on a down Hoover team taking Colerain to the ends of the earth, I have to believe Prattville is pretty good. St. X and Katy would be one boring game to watch. But they both keep winning even if it is not an aerial circus. I like MNw at 1, but any of the first 5 to me would be just fine. I think they are all pretty darn good. I believe the luster has been taken off of MNW win against "unranked" Southlake Carroll. I said all year they should not have been ranked. I would have no argument of the first five being placed in any order.
Based on schedule and the fact that X made it without the starting QB and one of the premier backs in the state for several games a piece is pretty impressive. They may have been one of the few teams anywhere that could have pulled that off. I was not an X fan nor am I, but it is pretty impressive to me what they did. This also takes away the argument some teams have when losing about injuries, and woulda, coulda, shoulda.

Far and away the best post you've ever made.

[Jesse]

There are some pretty darn good teams in 1-5. Miami N'Wstrn looked pretty good. I did not see Prattville but based on a down Hoover team taking Colerain to the ends of the earth, I have to believe Prattville is pretty good. St. X and Katy would be one boring game to watch. But they both keep winning even if it is not an aerial circus. I like MNw at 1, but any of the first 5 to me would be just fine. I think they are all pretty darn good. I believe the luster has been taken off of MNW win against "unranked" Southlake Carroll. I said all year they should not have been ranked. I would have no argument of the first five being placed in any order.
Based on schedule and the fact that X made it without the starting QB and one of the premier backs in the state for several games a piece is pretty impressive. They may have been one of the few teams anywhere that could have pulled that off. I was not an X fan nor am I, but it is pretty impressive to me what they did. This also takes away the argument some teams have when losing about injuries, and woulda, coulda, shoulda.


St.X and Katy might be boring to "basketball on grass" enthusists, however Woody and Bo would watch with rapt attention:) Smashmouth for 48 minutes.Paradise on grass:angel:

[consumerman]

St.X and Katy might be boring to "basketball on grass" enthusists, however Woody and Bo would watch with rapt attention:) Smashmouth for 48 minutes.Paradise on grass:angel:

except when they ventured to the rose bowl and played 3 loss stanford teams and 4 loss washingon teams and 3 loss ucla teams and saw their undefeated #1 teams get spanked

rose bowl also known as the woody hayes memorial coliseum becasue so many ohio state teams died there

[NATI's_Gr8test08]

everyone's sleeping on CPS schools... Hello all state Isaiah cheetam WR.. best in cincy.. maybe even one of the top playmaking WR's in the state

[EaglePride01]

except when they ventured to the rose bowl and played 3 loss stanford teams and 4 loss washingon teams and 3 loss ucla teams and saw their undefeated #1 teams get spanked

rose bowl also known as the woody hayes memorial coliseum becasue so many ohio state teams died there

We were at a disadvantage because we had to travel so far.:thumb:

[fish82]

We were at a disadvantage because we had to travel so far.:thumb:

Well played, EP!!! :thumb:

[consumerman]

We were at a disadvantage because we had to travel so far.:thumb:

that and the dinosaur offense

[EaglePride01]

that and the dinosaur offense

Its won more games than it has lost.

A run based offense seems to have worked fairly well for DLS throughout the years.

[concha]

I wonder what the results would have been had the dinosaur offense been faced in a cold weather state (for which it was designed)......

[Chicago]

I think this year DLS just kills time with the run and then throws to the kid who has 20 catches for 700 yards and 14 touchdowns or whatever it is.

[Chicago]

I was just guessing, and I thought I might have exaggerated.

But not so much.

24-725-15.

[EaglePride01]

except when they ventured to the rose bowl and played 3 loss stanford teams and 4 loss washingon teams and 3 loss ucla teams and saw their undefeated #1 teams get spanked

rose bowl also known as the woody hayes memorial coliseum becasue so many ohio state teams died there


BTW, OSU has never played Washington in a Rose Bowl. Perhaps it was Michigan who lost to them. And even when undefeated OSU lost to Stanford, they were still crowned National Champs!

[consumerman]

I wonder what the results would have been had the dinosaur offense been faced in a cold weather state (for which it was designed)......

what playoff game has st x won in the snow

facts only please not personal opinions

name the game the year the date

[consumerman]

BTW, OSU has never played Washington in a Rose Bowl. Perhaps it was Michigan who lost to them. And even when undefeated OSU lost to Stanford, they were still crowned National Champs!

umm no

1970 Nebraska was national champs

the old ap vote was BEFORE THE BOWLS

no one recognizes that except teams that got their lunch handed to them in the bowls

[consumerman]

Its won more games than it has lost.

A run based offense seems to have worked fairly well for DLS throughout the years.

what position did ny giant amani toomer play at dls?
what position did demetrius williams play at dls

what high school in ohio has 2 pro receivers right now?

plus a qb

plus a rb

plus a lb

plus a lineman

[pied]

umm no

1970 Nebraska was national champs

the old ap vote was BEFORE THE BOWLS

no one recognizes that except teams that got their lunch handed to them in the bowls

here!

[consumerman]

here!

supertroll

keep it going stalker

[concha]

what playoff game has st x won in the snow

facts only please not personal opinions

name the game the year the date

This year. 5 days ago. December 1st.

This years state title game was played in a mix of snow, rain and freezing rain. That white stuff on the field is frozen water.

http://www.stxavier.org/s/106/images/editor/state%20champs%2007.jpg

Elder 2002 title game:

http://www.cincinnati.com/preps/2002/12/01/photos/elderflorianrun180_zoom.jpg


See. We don't just make it up.

[consumerman]

so then the shutout was the result of the weather not st x defense

got it

[concha]

Look at it any way you like. You are incapable of viewing something in anything but the light that shines poorest on X. Enjoy!

[consumerman]

Look at it any way you like. You are incapable of viewing something in anything but the light that shines poorest on X. Enjoy!

and you do just the opposite

and have been sadly and jealously bashing dls since you were in diapers

[concha]

No. I think they are a great program. Certainly one of the very best ever. I just don't think the streak would have happened if they had had to go through the likes of Texas 5A or Ohio D1 every year. If that is bashing, well, I don't care if you think it is bashing.

[EaglePride01]

what position did ny giant amani toomer play at dls?
what position did demetrius williams play at dls

what high school in ohio has 2 pro receivers right now?

plus a qb

plus a rb

plus a lb

plus a lineman


Awesome. Did I say that DLS doesnt have receivers? Did I ask how many players you had in the Pros? I said you have a run based offense. Is that not correct?

[consumerman]

No. I think they are a great program. Certainly one of the very best ever. I just don't think the streak would have happened if they had had to go through the likes of Texas 5A or Ohio D1 every year. If that is bashing, well, I don't care if you think it is bashing.

ya and stx 2006 a team that went 10-2 and was the #1 ranked team in ohio and only lost to a national ranked team from florida that went undefeated and won a state championship and to colerain in a regional final (colerain was 13-1) is a so-so mediocre team

ya right

[concha]

ya and stx 2006 a team that went 10-2 and was the #1 ranked team in ohio and only lost to a national ranked team from florida that went undefeated and won a state championship and to colerain in a regional final (colerain was 13-1) is a so-so mediocre team

ya right

Why do you think they were "so-so mediocre"? I'd say taking a team to OT that finished with #1 rankings in Florida and in the nation in at least one poll is pretty good. And getting creamed in a game, a close call to the league doormat and not making out of your region don't mean you aren't good.

[consumerman]

Why do you think they were "so-so mediocre"? I'd say taking a team to OT that finished with #1 rankings in Florida and in the nation in at least one poll is pretty good. And getting creamed in a game, a close call to the league doormat and not making out of your region don't mean you aren't good.

that is HOW YOU described them as compared to 2005 and 2007

you are really in need of memory lessons

[consumerman]

concha you are not worth my time

EVER

NEVER AGAIN

[EaglePride01]

OSU's "dinosaur offense" has also produced 7 first round draft pick wide receivers, and hall of famers Chris Carter and Paul Warfield.

[concha]

that is HOW YOU described them as compared to 2005 and 2007

you are really in need of memory lessons

That is a lie.

I said 2005 and 2007 were better.

Don't fight the medication. Go with it. Let it work.

[Chicago]

Texas has had a few title games in the snow.

Somewhere around 1989, '90, or '91, I believe.

I am sure Pied knows.

[consumerman]

That is a lie.

I said 2005 and 2007 were better.

Don't fight the medication. Go with it. Let it work.

permanently ignored

[concha]

concha you are not worth my time

EVER

NEVER AGAIN

That would make me less than worthless.

I'm really hurt by that. :dang:

[concha]

permanently ignored

Super. Does that mean you acknowledge that you lie like a rug?

[pied]

supertroll

keep it going stalker

What are you talking about?????

You said:

umm no

1970 Nebraska was national champs

the old ap vote was BEFORE THE BOWLS

no one recognizes that except teams that got their lunch handed to them in the bowls




In fact Texas was ranked #1 going in to the Bowls after the 1970 season, they lost to ND but remained #1 in the UPI.

UT entered its Cotton Bowl rematch with No. 6 Notre Dame as the nation’s top team in both The AP and UPI polls.

After falling 24-11 to the Fighting Irish, which snapped UT’s 30-game winning streak, the Longhorns dropped to No. 3 in The AP poll but remained UPI’s National Champion. The 30-game winning streak currently stands as the 10th-longest in NCAA history.

http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=36&url_subchannel_id=&url_article_id=611&change_well_id=2

I am a Texas fan, and was referring to your comment. Your apology will most certainly be accepted.

[consumerman]

there were several rankings prior to the bowls

some had texas #1

at least 1 had Ohio state

after Ohio state, texas and lsu lost, nebraska emerged as the national champion

nebraska 11-0-1 (tie was against a medicore USC team that crushed ND, who in turn crushed Texas) was national champion in 1970

3 time loser stanford beat ohio state 27-17

ND beat texas 24-11 (led 24-3)

Nebraska beat LSU 17-12

[consumerman]

you did not look closely enough at the TEXAS SPONSORED site

read it again

Rankings from Associated Press entering the game

Texas was not national champs in 1970 except those that ignore the bowl games

no one does that

[consumerman]

After falling 24-11 to the Fighting Irish, which snapped UT’s 30-game winning streak, the Longhorns dropped to No. 3 in The AP poll but remained UPI’s National Champion. The 30-game winning streak currently stands as the 10th-longest in NCAA history.


they "remained" because there was not another vote

you really took a big whiff on this one

In the AP which did vote after the bowl games, Nebraska was #1

[consumerman]

and you are the one who owes an apology

[Bordertown]

Exerpt From the "Ode to Concha" from Consumerman (the cyber fan) -

"You thought it was a joke
And so you laughed
You laughed when I had said
That losing you would make me flip my lid
Right. . .

You know you laughed, I heard you laugh
You laughed, you laughed and laughed
And then you left
But now you know I'm utterly mad!"

[consumerman]

Exerpt From the "Ode to Concha" from Consumerman (the cyber fan) -

"You thought it was a joke
And so you laughed
You laughed when I had said
That losing you would make me flip my lid
Right. . .

You know you laughed, I heard you laugh
You laughed, you laughed and laughed
And then you left
But now you know I'm utterly mad!"

troll and trouble maker

[Bordertown]

What do all the "trolls" you have called out on this thread have in common? There is a common denominator!!!!

Texas claims 4 National Championships including 1970. In the day both the UPI and the AP were viewed equally. I understand your point. Texas was the undisputed UPI national champions. If you go through many schools with national championships you will find they were shared like 1970. The UPI was the coaches opinion and not the sportwriters like the AP

[consumerman]

What do all the "trolls" you have called out on this thread have in common? There is a common denominator!!!!

Texas claims 4 National Championships including 1970. In the day both the UPI and the AP were viewed equally. I understand your point, Texas were the UPI national champions. If you go through many schools with national championships you will find they were shared like 1970. The UPI was the coaches opinion and not the sportwriters like the AP

UPI changed its voting until after the bowls after giving the "national championship" to teams that went on to lose bowl games

the resons they changed it was because it was ludicrous to give a national championship to a team that lost in a bowl game

Texas can claim anything they want

The 1970 National Champion was Nebraska

[pied]

UPI changed its voting until after the bowls after giving the "national championship" to teams that went on to lose bowl games

the resons they changed it was because it was ludicrous to give a national championship to a team that lost in a bowl game

Texas can claim anything they want

The 1970 National Champion was Nebraska


Ummm that was the point of my original post.

[pied]

UPI changed its voting until after the bowls after giving the "national championship" to teams that went on to lose bowl games

the resons they changed it was because it was ludicrous to give a national championship to a team that lost in a bowl game

Texas can claim anything they want

The 1970 National Champion was Nebraska


Again, as I took the New York Times over your opinion, I'll defer to the NCAA on this one if that's ok.....

http://www.ncaasports.com/football/mens/history

[consumerman]

the reason UPI finally changed its voting until AFTER the bowl games was so ridiculous regular season national championship claims by teams that got their --- kicked in a bowl game would no longer occur

you dont get it

[pied]

the reason UPI finally changed its voting until AFTER the bowl games was so ridiculous regular season national championship claims by teams that got their --- kicked in a bowl game would no longer occur

you dont get it

Yes I do. If you do not, you do not understand how college football has worked for the most part of its existence nor the importance the bowl games have held.

You know the AP had only changed its voting structre two years prior in '68, correct? You know the coaches followed suit in '74.

Do you knwo what you are talking about?

[consumerman]

Yes I do. If you do not, you do not understand how college football has worked for the most part of its existence nor the importance the bowl games have held.

You know the AP had only changed its voting structre two years prior in '68, correct? You know the coaches followed suit in '74.

Do you knwo what you are talking about?

why did they change it?

there were several bear Bryant teams that were national champs but were beaten by Texas or another team in a bowl game

I am quite familiar with college football history

I understand the technical claim of winning a national championship by vote before the bowl games

that it was flawed was WHY they changed the system

enuf

Nebraska was 1970 national champion

and to the point originally made that is so digressed from, the Ohio State-Michigan dinosaur offenses were exposed numerous times by 3 and 4 loss pac ten teams in the rose bowl

[Chicago]

Ok, this was all fun and games until we started picking on Bama.

And Pied, you leave 1981 out of this. I can still see that quarterback draw.

[consumerman]

Ok, this was all fun and games until we started picking on Bama.

Do you mean '70? Because Bama won in '79.

And Pied, you leave 1981 out of this. I can still see that quarterback draw.

typo since corrected

[pied]

why did they change it?

there were several bear Bryant teams that were national champs but were beaten by Texas or another team in a bowl game

I am quite familiar with college football history

I understand the technical claim of winning a national championship by vote before the bowl games

that it was flawed was WHY they changed the system

enuf

Nebraska was 1970 national champion

and to the point originally made that is so digressed from, the Ohio State-Michigan dinosaur offenses were exposed numerous times by 3 and 4 loss pac ten teams in the rose bowl

Bowl games stats were not included in season totals until recently. Why?

I understand the system changed, but you cannot go back in history and discount what happened ebcause they changed the measurement going forward.

[pied]

Ok, this was all fun and games until we started picking on Bama.

And Pied, you leave 1981 out of this. I can still see that quarterback draw.

I never mentioned 1981, Troll(is that right consumerman?).

[Chicago]

Not to get too far off track, if that's even possible at this point, but the decathlon has issues like this, I think.

Every few years they change the points awarded for certain results in the events, and someone who won a few years ago might not have won if the new system had been in effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decathlon_scoring_tables

As far as bowl games, they used to be a nice end-of-year prize for teams that had had a good season, and that's it. The Rose Parade or Festival or whatever it's called started before the Rose Bowl. Someone decided in 1902 or whenever that having a football game might be neat. So the bowl games weren't really part of the season. You won the national championship (or didn't), and then had this neat exhibition game at the end.

Obviously, it's far different now. And while the polls were probably late in recognizing the new emphasis on bowls, they probably weren't THAT far behind.

[pied]

Not to get too far off track, if that's even possible at this point, but the decathlon has issues like this, I think.

Every few years they change the points awarded for certain results in the events, and someone who won a few years ago might not have won if the new system had been in effect.



The system was flawed.

I think the point would be that we rescore all previous contests w/the most current scoring system and take away and reallocate medals as appropriate.

Of course tracking those down may prove difficult, but to not do so would be ludicrous.

[Chicago]

I'm not picking on Consumerman. It is definitely strange to look back and see teams that lost bowl games being awarded National Championships.

However, revising things much later is an interesting subject (at least to me).

I found this:

"Scoring changes in the early twentieth century also helped popularize the game by increasing the value of touchdowns. When the first true football scoring system was devised in 1883 (replacing customary scoring procedures in which one point usually was awarded for advancing the ball across the goal in any fashion), kicking was emphasized. Field goals counted 5 points while touchdowns and conversions each counted 4. In 1884 the total for a safety was increased from 1 to 2 points, still in existence today. In 1897 the value of a TD was raised to 5 points with a successful conversion worth an additional 1 point. The field goal remained at 5 points until 1904, when it was reduced to 4 points. In 1909 it was further lowered to its modern 3-point value. The touchdown was given its modern 6-point value in 1912.

No further point modifications were made until 1958, when teams were given the option of running or passing the ball across the goal line for 2 points after a TD, while a successful kicked conversion remained worth 1 point. At the same time the scrimmage line for conversion attempts was moved back one yard to the 3-yard line, where it originally had been established in 1924 (it had been on the 5-yard line in 1922-23, but was moved to the 2-yard line in 1929). A 1988 rule gave the defensive team 2 points for returning a blocked kick or an intercepted pass to the opponent's end zone during a conversion attempt. In 1992 this was extended to include a fumble return from any spot outside the end zone."

Pied, I'm sure you can find a game where Texas A&M beat Texas that would have gone the other way with some of the old scoring systems (if you disregard how strategy would have changed and that sort of thing).

[pied]

Pied, I'm sure you can find a game where Texas A&M beat Texas that would have gone the other way with some of the old scoring systems (if you disregard how strategy would have changed and that sort of thing).

You might be right. I do recall there being the nuttiest play/score I have seen in a Texas-a$m game:

Which is fitting because it was the Texas special teams that helped UT tie this game just after halftime with its second blocked kick of the game.

Trailing 13-6, UT's defense forced a three-and-out from the Aggies on the first possession of the second half. Longhorn sophomore Michael Griffin blocked a punt by the Aggies' Jacob Young and in the scrum for the ball, freshman safety Bobby Tatum recovered the ball in the end zone for the Texas touchdown.

Due to a bad snap, Mangum missed his second extra point of the game, but UT would still tie the game. Off of the missed kick, Texas A&M recovered the ball, but fumbled into the end zone where the Aggies were tackled, giving UT a rare one-point safety, tying the game at 13 just over a minute into the second half.

weird

[Bordertown]

the reason UPI finally changed its voting until AFTER the bowl games was so ridiculous regular season national championship claims by teams that got their --- kicked in a bowl game would no longer occur

you dont get it

Here is the point you do not get. Every National Championship including Texas' 2005 victory over an overwhelming favorite USC is mytical and based on opinion.

I present the current national championship game. There are many people that do not think neither LSU or Ohio St deserve to be in the national championship game, but by rule the polls are required to crown them national champions even if they both stink it up in the game.

If the Rainbow Warrior win their bowl game handily, the pollster can not change their opinion.

Things really haven't changed much since 1970 now have they?

Good point Pied - I think the NCAA is the final opinion that matters. Not mine or yours and most certainly someone that that would agrue with a jug of Clorox over bleach supremacy.