Prep Nation's Jamie D Current Views re: National Poll

[NYCBlue]

Per PrepNation.com....

Despite surviving arguably the nation's toughest schedule unscathed and winning its second Division I state title in three seasons, preseason No. 1 St. Xavier (Cincinnati) remained ranked just behind top-ranked Miami Northwestern again this week. If there were a weekly points tabulation for poll standings, this week's margin between Northwestern and St. Xavier would be razor thin.

But St. Xavier and its fans are not alone in making a legitimate claim for the top spot, should Northwestern lose or play badly enough to drop from No. 1.

No. 3 De La Salle (Concord, Calif.) is dominating opponents in a fashion reminiscent of the Spartans teams that won six Prep Poll titles between 1994-2003. And unlike those years, should it win this week, De La Salle will play in a legitimate state championship game this season against the top large-school team from Southern California.

Then there's No. 4 Katy (Texas). The Tigers, who have unmatched tradition in the Lone Star State, have reached the 5A state quarterfinals for the 10th time in 11 seasons and appear likely to claim their fourth state title since 1997.

No. 5 South Panola (Batesville, Miss.) certainly has a strong case of its own for the No. 1 spot again this season. The Tigers are closing in on a fifth consecutive 5A state championship and 75 straight wins.

With all that on the record, Miami Northwestern has done enough to keep the No. 1 ranking, in our view. The Bulls grade out highest when applying the four major criteria to which the National Prep Poll gives most weight when ranking teams:

schedule strength
accomplishing the ultimate goals of being a dominant team and winning championships
fielding a team with impact/memorable players
coaching/recent tradition.

Some other teams appear to grade out better in any one individual category than the Bulls. But, overall, Northwestern appears to us to be the best team in America.

At least for now.



http://prepnation.com/poll/poll.cfm?poll=1&year=2007&week=17



Thoughts...
Comments...

Your views re: Prep Nation's 4 major criteria....

[consumerman]

like I said, SOS ALONE does not annoint you the best team in the nation

sorry St X

but you are defintely among the best

[EaglePride01]

D5 Maria Stein Marion Local getting some love in the Midwest Rankings. I wonder if an Ohio school of their size has ever garnised a national ranking?

Calpreps has liked them for the majority of the season, and they seem to be getting love from a lot of the yappi pundits as well over on the other forum.

[fish82]

With all that on the record, Miami Northwestern has done enough to keep the No. 1 ranking, in our view. The Bulls grade out highest when applying the four major criteria to which the National Prep Poll gives most weight when ranking teams:
schedule strength
accomplishing the ultimate goals of being a dominant team and winning championships
fielding a team with impact/memorable players
coaching/recent tradition.

Schedule Strength - X.... by a buttload.

accomplishing the ultimate goals of being a dominant team and winning championships - Wash at best

fielding a team with impact/memorable players - MNW

coaching/recent tradition - Wash at best, although IMO X gets the nod.

[concha]

My response to Jamie....


Schedule Strength: X has to be ahead of all other potential national contenders by a longshot. MNW has played a couple of decent Florida teams, but their marquis win over SLC was just tarnished. X has faced and beaten two teams that hit the PN national top ten. One is now the East #7 and I believe vying for a title. They have also beaten the current and former MW #5s (Coffman and Mentor), the current MW #3 (Trinity) and spanked Elder, who beat the East #6 Indy. In comparison, MNW beat the SW #7. X by a landslide.

Dominant team/Championships: MNW has generally been dominant, but then again their average opponent isn't even a 6-4 team. Only 2 of 15 of St. X opponents were at or below that level, as X's are the equivalant of an 8-2 team on average. And X has done it despite key injuries. Not including losses to X, 11 of X's 15 games were versus teams that had 2 or fewer losses. Oh, and X actually HAS won their title. Please refer to strength of schedule above for more. Push at worst. And shouldn't X get some credit for "walking the walk"?

Impact/Memorable Players: MNW has some big names getting scholies. But is X a slouch? X has Ashley, the All-Ohio Offensive and Defensive Players of the Year, the #8 ranked punter/kicker in the country by Prokicker, four All-Ohio 1st teamers, a second teamer and an honorable mention, the Army Iron Man... MNW gets a nod....maybe. But by much? Looking good and getting stats against teams that win less than 60% of their games may distort things?

Coaching/Recent Tradition: Under Coach Specht, X is 51-3 with two Ohio D1 titles won with perfect 15-0 records. He has won coach of the year honors in Ohio twice in just four years. And if you can find me a team in the nation has faced a line-up of competition like X has faced to achieve a 51-3 record, I'd like to hear about them. I understand MNW's coach has a very good resume, but does his record match up to what Specht has done in arguaby the toughest classification in the nation and facing multiple out-of-state powers? Not just one in an off year? I'd love to hear the reasoning for X not getting this also.

[Chicago]

I don't know why the last two matter.

I get schedule strength and dominance/championships.

That's basically how good your opponents were and how easily you handled them.

Impact/memorable players only matter in how they affect your ability to dominate your opponents, and to win championships. If you're winning, your players are probably pretty good, and if you're not winning, they're probably not very good. But it doesn't matter if you have 11 All-Americans playing both ways if they somehow manage to lose.

And coaching works the same way. If it helps you win, great. If it doesn't, not so great. But you shouldn't get credit beyond what you've done on the field, or short of what you've done on the field, because of a separate category for coaching.

And tradition is (mostly) a result of dominating opponents and winning championships. If you don't dominate, but you used to dominate, you shouldn't get credit for that this year.

Xavier has played perhaps the toughest possible schedule. You could put together, theoretically, a tougher schedule heading into the year, but it would be very hard to have it play out as tough as Xavier's did. You could schedule 10 teams that should win every game other than when they play against you, but good luck having it work out that way.

MNW has been more dominant. They've won by bigger margins.

Taking schedule and dominance together, I think Xavier is a better choice for number 1 than MNW is. It is much more likely that if Xavier played MNW's schedule, they would be 13-0, than it is that if MNW had played Xavier's schedule they would be 15-0.

And yes, Xavier has already won a championship. MNW still has two games to go.

[consumerman]

My response to Jamie....


Schedule Strength: X has to be ahead of all other potential national contenders by a longshot. MNW has played a couple of decent Florida teams, but their marquis win over SLC was just tarnished. X has faced and beaten two teams that hit the PN national top ten. One is now the East #7 and I believe vying for a title. They have also beaten the current and former MW #5s (Coffman and Mentor), the current MW #3 (Trinity) and spanked Elder, who beat the East #6 Indy. In comparison, MNW beat the SW #7. X by a landslide.

Dominant team/Championships: MNW has generally been dominant, but then again their average opponent isn't even a 6-4 team. Only 2 of 15 of St. X opponents were at or below that level, as X's are the equivalant of an 8-2 team on average. And X has done it despite key injuries. Not including losses to X, 11 of X's 15 games were versus teams that had 2 or fewer losses. Oh, and X actually HAS won their title. Please refer to strength of schedule above for more. Push at worst. And shouldn't X get some credit for "walking the walk"?

Impact/Memorable Players: MNW has some big names getting scholies. But is X a slouch? X has Ashley, the All-Ohio Offensive and Defensive Players of the Year, the #8 ranked punter/kicker in the country by Prokicker, four All-Ohio 1st teamers, a second teamer and an honorable mention, the Army Iron Man... MNW gets a nod....maybe. But by much? Looking good and getting stats against teams that win less than 60% of their games may distort things?

Coaching/Recent Tradition: Under Coach Specht, X is 51-3 with two Ohio D1 titles won with perfect 15-0 records. He has won coach of the year honors in Ohio twice in just four years. And if you can find me a team in the nation has faced a line-up of competition like X has faced to achieve a 51-3 record, I'd like to hear about them. I understand MNW's coach has a very good resume, but does his record match up to what Specht has done in arguaby the toughest classification in the nation and facing multiple out-of-state powers? Not just one in an off year? I'd love to hear the reasoning for X not getting this also.

concha you used sos to argue 4 of the 4 points
the reason the categories are divided into 4 is to argue sos in sos only

do a better job netx time

[concha]

concha you used sos to argue 4 of the 4 points
the reason the categories are divided into 4 is to argue sos in sos only

do a better job netx time


I see.

So dominance need not be put in context. Domination over an easy schedule is the same as domination over a difficult one. Genius.

Player performance the same. Lots of yards and scores versus weaker opponents should be judged the same as ones earned versus tough competition. Okey-dokey.

Coaching results and tradition shouldn't be judged against the quality of opponents played. You betcha.



So a team could go 15-0 versus the toughest schedule ever seen, yet potentially lose 3 of 4 categories to a 15-0 team that plays in Bunnyville because you're supposed to forget the quality of opposition in 3 of 4 categories?

[consumerman]

I see.

So dominance need not be put in context. Domination over an easy schedule is the same as domination over a difficult one. Genius.

Player performance the same. Lots of yards and scores versus weaker opponents should be judged the same as ones earned versus tough competition. Okey-dokey.

Coaching results and tradition shouldn't be judged against the quality of opponents played. You betcha.



So a team could go 15-0 versus the toughest schedule ever seen, yet potentially lose 3 of 4 categories to a 15-0 team that plays in Bunnyville because you're supposed to forget the quality of opposition in 3 of 4 categories?


use sos in sos only

try better for a third time

[consumerman]

st x coach 51-3

no wins vs florida (0-1)

no wins vs cali (chicken>?)

no wins vs texas (ditto)

[Plaindriver]

Per PrepNation.com....

Despite surviving arguably the nation's toughest schedule unscathed and winning its second Division I state title in three seasons, preseason No. 1 St. Xavier (Cincinnati) remained ranked just behind top-ranked Miami Northwestern again this week. If there were a weekly points tabulation for poll standings, this week's margin between Northwestern and St. Xavier would be razor thin.

But St. Xavier and its fans are not alone in making a legitimate claim for the top spot, should Northwestern lose or play badly enough to drop from No. 1.

No. 3 De La Salle (Concord, Calif.) is dominating opponents in a fashion reminiscent of the Spartans teams that won six Prep Poll titles between 1994-2003. And unlike those years, should it win this week, De La Salle will play in a legitimate state championship game this season against the top large-school team from Southern California.

Then there's No. 4 Katy (Texas). The Tigers, who have unmatched tradition in the Lone Star State, have reached the 5A state quarterfinals for the 10th time in 11 seasons and appear likely to claim their fourth state title since 1997.

No. 5 South Panola (Batesville, Miss.) certainly has a strong case of its own for the No. 1 spot again this season. The Tigers are closing in on a fifth consecutive 5A state championship and 75 straight wins.

With all that on the record, Miami Northwestern has done enough to keep the No. 1 ranking, in our view. The Bulls grade out highest when applying the four major criteria to which the National Prep Poll gives most weight when ranking teams:

schedule strength
accomplishing the ultimate goals of being a dominant team and winning championships
fielding a team with impact/memorable players
coaching/recent tradition.

Some other teams appear to grade out better in any one individual category than the Bulls. But, overall, Northwestern appears to us to be the best team in America.

At least for now.



http://prepnation.com/poll/poll.cfm?poll=1&year=2007&week=17



Thoughts...
Comments...

Your views re: Prep Nation's 4 major criteria....


Well, I think Panola is the imposter on that list. Just as NC Indy was exposed this yr, and how other states like SoCar and La. have been exposed in prev yrs. IMHO, DLS absolutely belongs in the top three. MNW is hard to handicap cause they only had ONE real game, and that is loosing its luster. (SLC)
X played a brutal sched, and came away with only a couple bruises, but no broken bones. I really dont think indiv player quality should influence the ranking because: Last yr, Lakeland had the best personel in the USA, and they came within a whisker of loosing to an average X team; on paper, L shoulda won that game by 45! And in '01, DLS played Poly who was (some claim) the greatest assembly of talent in the HS history! DLS still won. And again the next yr as well. And, this will likely be about the 4th consecutive yr that DLS will have zero D-1 recruits. Doesnt matter as evidenced by above examples. Qual of individuals shouldnt be a criteria caus this IS a team sport.

Fact is, X had, by far, the most brutal sched in the USA, and they prevailed. They had some major potholes to navigate around (injuries to Ashley and starting QB), and they accomplished their mission on the field.
Recent history has nothing to do with THIS YEAR.
Being a dominant team, and winning the championship, X has, and MNW likely will.
END OF STORY.
X has to get the the plaque this yr! Its only fair. (And Im a DLS guy.)

[concha]

st x coach 51-3

no wins vs florida (0-1)

no wins vs cali (chicken>?)

no wins vs texas (ditto)


Traveled to Washington lately?

[consumerman]

Traveled to Washington lately?

won 8 national championships lately?

had 151, 44 and 34 game win streaks lately?

had all americans 4 consecutive years?

have a coach inducted into the hs hall of fame at age 40?

beaten a team that finished in the top 2 ever?

beaten a team that finished in the top 3 ever?

allowed 21 points in the first halves of 11 games? (not 24 in one half)

sorry you opened up a can of worms that you will never overcome

[concha]

won 8 national championships lately?

had 151, 44 and 34 game win streaks lately?

had all americans 4 consecutive years?

have a coach inducted into the hs hall of fame at age 40?

beaten a team that finished in the top 2 ever?

beaten a team that finished in the top 3 ever?

sorry you opened up a can of worms that you will never overcome


And in that time you played a team from Hawaii, a team from Washington (spank), a Louisiana team in a down year and an Ohio team that DNQ for the tourney.

How many games in those streaks were outside California? Outside of NorCal?

[consumerman]

Traveled to Washington lately?

little babies gonna be allowed to travel more than 300 miles?

heck that is like 2 sections in california

[concha]

How old are you? Seriously.

[consumerman]

And in that time you played a team from Hawaii, a team from Washington (spank), a Louisiana team in a down year and an Ohio team that DNQ for the tourney.

How many games in those streaks were outside California? Outside of NorCal?

Mater Dei 1994 and 1996 national champs (#5 in 1997)

1998 MD won SS, finished national #2
1999 MD tied for SS, Matt Leinart junior year
2000 Matt Leinart senior year
2001

MD never led at any time during any of the 4 games

LB Poly national top 3 1997, 2000, 2001

2001 won SS, 5 players in national top 79
2002

DLS never trailed at any point in either game

Honolulu ST Louis

18 time DIV 1 state champion
(better than Indiana Div 3)>>????

LMAO

Evangel

9 time Louisina champion
yes JD Booty graduated early

Matt Leinart was the better college QB, you really think JD Booty could overcome a 27-10 score? Evangel TD was late in 4th Q, DLS took a knee on the 5 yard line

Y A W N

[consumerman]

How old are you? Seriously.

I have been following hs football since NFL overall #1 pick Steve Bartkowski was a junior in hs (saw him play, he was a friend)

Was graduated from HS when I saw Oak Grove go 14-1 and win CCS championship in 1978 when MIKE HOLMGREN was the offensive coordinator

ever heard of him?

[consumerman]

so tell me about X 151, 44 and 34 game win streaks please

and 4 all americans in 4 years

and 8 national championships

ok?

[ProfessorX]

so tell me about X 151, 44 and 34 game win streaks please

and 4 all americans in 4 years

and 8 national championships

ok?


Consumerdad, stop embarassing the legendary DLS program. A program which you have nothing to even do with. St. X and DLS are similar programs at this point in time and Specht is doing what Coach Lad was building in the 90's and getting kids to buy in and work their butts off to play fundamentally sound, disciplined, and phyiscal football with superior conditioned athletes with high football IQ's. No showboating, no razzle dazzle...play hard, fast, and smart. Something you would know nothin about because I can tell by reading your posts you have never played football nor even understand the principles that Coach Lad and DLS stand for.

I dont think DLS has the horses this year to play four quarters with X but I know they would give them all they could handle and more. Also, I dont think X could not compete with DLS in their glory years, maybe 98 and 2001 (probably wouldnt win), but 2005 and 2007 X are on the level of past DLS teams no doubt.

[consumerman]

Something you would know nothin about because I can tell by reading your posts you have never played football

oh god another ohio know-it-all who condenscends and reacts like i challenged his manhood

is there a neverending supply of these creeps?

Umm My father was a professional athlete

I was a college athlete

I played one year of football
was third leading rusher on a team that featured a pac 10 3 year starter
we were league champions

I concentrated on baseball since I was captain as a freshman and we were league champs (11-1)
captain of jv as a sophomore (15-3)
and captain of varsity both my JUNIOR and senior years (3rd place in an 11 team league, 2nd place in an 11 team league)

oh by the way, our freshman class was 1800 students and over 200 tried out for the frosh team


i coached a league champion colt team at the age of 19
I was allowed to coach at the junior college at age 19 even though I was also a player 5 players from that team went to the majors, including 2 perennial all-stars

but you are right I know nothing about sports or sportsmanship

if I only I grew up in cincinnati

darn

[consumerman]

I dont think DLS has the horses this year to play four quarters with X but I know they would give them all they could handle

DLS is trembling at might st x

a team that allowed 24 first half points in one game and trailed by double digits

dls gave up 21 first half points all year

a team that took 3 overtimes to beat a team by 3 that was crushed by another team

oh dls is trembling

and dls is so poorly conditioned they might not make it to halftime

LMAO x 1 million

[ProfessorX]

Something you would know nothin about because I can tell by reading your posts you have never played football

oh god another ohio know-it-all who condenscends and reacts like i challenged his manhood

is there a neverending supply of these creeps?

Umm My father was a professional athlete

I was a college athlete

I played one year of football
was third leading rusher on a team that featured a pac 10 3 year starter
we were league champions

I concentrated on baseball since I was captain as a freshman and we were league champs (11-1)
captain of jv as a sophomore (15-3)
and captain of varsity both my JUNIOR and senior years (3rd place in an 11 team league, 2nd place in an 11 team league)

oh by the way, our freshman class was 1800 students and over 200 tried out for the frosh team


i coached a league champion colt team at the age of 19
I was allowed to coach at the junior college at age 19 even though I was also a player 5 players from that team went to the majors, including 2 perennial all-stars

but you are right I know nothing about sports or sportsmanship

if I only I grew up in cincinnati

darn

No I said you dont know anything about DLS because all the people i know from DLS are humble and respectable people who dont need indulge in trolling message boards.

Im not even going to get into my credentials or my families because most real athletes dont need to talk about their past.

[ProfessorX]

I dont think DLS has the horses this year to play four quarters with X but I know they would give them all they could handle

DLS is trembling at might st x

a team that allowed 24 first half points in one game and trailed by double digits

dls gave up 21 first half points all year

a team that took 3 overtimes to beat a team by 3 that was crushed by another team

oh dls is trembling

and dls is so poorly conditioned they might not make it to halftime

LMAO x 1 million


Again how do you know what DLS is thinking...a classy program like DLS wants nothing to with a jock rider like yourself. Where did I say DLS was poorly conditioned? Also, since you know so much about DLS then surely you know what Coach Lad has said about X? Im not going to get into comparative scoring because its stupid...all i know is both DLS and X are two awesome programs who epitomize class and fundamentally sound football. Thats why DLS is my second favorite HS team and also because my buddy Derek Landri went there. He also thinks highly of St. X.

[consumerman]

so do you admit you were wrong when you said I never played football

[consumerman]

No I said you dont know anything about DLS because all the people i know from DLS are humble and respectable people who dont need indulge in trolling message boards.

Im not even going to get into my credentials or my families because most real athletes dont need to talk about their past.

1) I am not from DLS
2) I guess you look at internet boards and thats ok but I go to the same site and have a need to troll. HYPOCRITE
3) I am not a real athlete, I am glad you are
4) you questioned if I ever played football and I answered you with facts, that is not a NEED to talk about my past but to answer a knowitall smartass
5) I hope you arent a ND fan as well, good god the only thing worse are Yankees and Cowboys fans, although ST X fans are rapidly moving up the list

anything else?

[consumerman]

because I can tell by reading your posts you have never played football

third time I will show you what you said

in case you did not or could not read what you wrote yourself

[ProfessorX]

because I can tell by reading your posts you have never played football

third time I will show you what you said

in case you did not or could not read what you wrote yourself

Yeah you never played football for a real team like DLS or St. X. One year of football...LOOK OUT!

[consumerman]

Yeah you never played football for a real team like DLS or St. X. One year of football...LOOK OUT!

like I said

I was a much better baseball player and prospect

plus an honors student that was at level 9

level 1 is below grade level
level 2 was at grade level
level 3 was above grade level

oh ya I won wittiest AND biggest flirt my senior year

oh and my brother as a senior (went to school with mark spitz and joanna (devarona) kerns - (mother on growing pains) was his high school ping pong champion, problem was he couldnt beat his little brother (me) who was in grade school

[concha]

I dont think DLS has the horses this year to play four quarters with X but I know they would give them all they could handle

DLS is trembling at might st x

a team that allowed 24 first half points in one game and trailed by double digits

dls gave up 21 first half points all year

a team that took 3 overtimes to beat a team by 3 that was crushed by another team

oh dls is trembling

and dls is so poorly conditioned they might not make it to halftime

LMAO x 1 million

What is your deal?

Who is making claims that X would spank DLS? The quote you are reacting to says DLS would give X all it could handle. Who questioning their conditioning, which is acknowledged widely to be exceptional? Horses has to do with X's depth and the way they dominate the 2nd half. Why do you keep humping a game that X managed to win playing 5 hours from home with a sophomore QB in his first start?

[consumerman]

What is your deal?

Who is making claims that X would spank DLS? The quote you are reacting to says DLS would give X all it could handle. Who questioning their conditioning, which is acknowledged widely to be exceptional? Horses has to do with X's depth and the way they dominate the 2nd half. Why do you keep humping a game that X managed to win playing 5 hours from home with a sophomore QB in his first start?

devils adocate

you are smart enough to recognize that

or maybe not

[skyway28]

" Last yr, Lakeland had the best personel in the USA, and they came within a whisker of loosing to an average X team; on paper, L shoulda won that game by 45!"

I could vomit reading this! Lakeland did not have close to its best team and it did not have the "best personel in the USA", either. And to suggest that X was "average" is just such bullsh*t it is ridiculous. 2) St. X is a combined 40-1 against Ohio competition the last three years, with two state titles and a large number of convincing wins. The lone loss was a playoff loss to major power Colerain, who spent a year licking their wounds from being beaten twice the previous year to get redemption that year against X. As such, they likely were a bit flat the next week and were upset by a team few in Ohio think would win more than, say, two out of ten games against Colerain. That Lakeland traveled 1,000 miles and played in a unique, MORE HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT THAN ANY OPPONENT OF X HAS EVER FACED and is the only other team to have beaten X in that three-year span is significant. Considering that three-year run and the significant contributions from sophomores on the 2005 title team, I'd say it's quite absurd to suggest there was much of a difference between the 2006 team and those in 2005 and 2007.

[concha]

" Last yr, Lakeland had the best personel in the USA, and they came within a whisker of loosing to an average X team; on paper, L shoulda won that game by 45!"

I could vomit reading this! Lakeland did not have close to its best team and it did not have the "best personel in the USA", either. And to suggest that X was "average" is just such bullsh*t it is ridiculous. 2) St. X is a combined 40-1 against Ohio competition the last three years, with two state titles and a large number of convincing wins. The lone loss was a playoff loss to major power Colerain, who spent a year licking their wounds from being beaten twice the previous year to get redemption that year against X. As such, they likely were a bit flat the next week and were upset by a team few in Ohio think would win more than, say, two out of ten games against Colerain. That Lakeland traveled 1,000 miles and played in a unique, MORE HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT THAN ANY OPPONENT OF X HAS EVER FACED and is the only other team to have beaten X in that three-year span is significant. Considering that three-year run and the significant contributions from sophomores on the 2005 title team, I'd say it's quite absurd to suggest there was much of a difference between the 2006 team and those in 2005 and 2007.


1) Lakeland 2006

10 or so major D1A recruits (don't even bother with any others) - how often does that happen even in Florida?


6 Florida 5A 1st Team All-State selections

2 Florida 5A 2nd Team All-State selections

3 Florida 5A 3rd Team All-State selections

4 Florida 5A All-State Honorable Mentions


Nearly 3/4 of their starting lineup got all-state honors.

Nearly 30% of the 5A All-State 1st Team was comprised of Dreadnaughts.


2) Hilliard Davidson gave X as tough a game as Colerain in 2005 and won the freaking title in 2006. They were for real.


3) Not absurd. At all. The upperclassmen for X 2005 were better than those on the '06 team. X 2007 is the best yet. 2

2005: 15-0

2006: 11-2 (1-2 vs. the three best teams they faced with the one win by just 3 pts and X only had half the yardage. Lucky.)

2007: 15-0

[pied]

"I could vomit reading this! Lakeland did not have close to its best team and it did not have the "best personel in the USA", either. And to suggest that X was "average" is just such bullsh*t it is ridiculous.

Who was better in '06?

[concha]

Who was better in '06?

Good question.

Who had around 10 major D1As and 15 kids with all-state mentions.

skyway?

[consumerman]

" Last yr, Lakeland had the best personel in the USA, and they came within a whisker of loosing to an average X team; on paper, L shoulda won that game by 45!"

I could vomit reading this! Lakeland did not have close to its best team and it did not have the "best personel in the USA", either. And to suggest that X was "average" is just such bullsh*t it is ridiculous. 2) St. X is a combined 40-1 against Ohio competition the last three years, with two state titles and a large number of convincing wins. The lone loss was a playoff loss to major power Colerain, who spent a year licking their wounds from being beaten twice the previous year to get redemption that year against X. As such, they likely were a bit flat the next week and were upset by a team few in Ohio think would win more than, say, two out of ten games against Colerain. That Lakeland traveled 1,000 miles and played in a unique, MORE HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT THAN ANY OPPONENT OF X HAS EVER FACED and is the only other team to have beaten X in that three-year span is significant. Considering that three-year run and the significant contributions from sophomores on the 2005 title team, I'd say it's quite absurd to suggest there was much of a difference between the 2006 team and those in 2005 and 2007.

EXCELLENT POST

ya X is a real weakling how convenient when he is trying to explain away a loss to a school from a real football state

you win that debate EASILY

[EaglePride01]

Give me a break. I'd hardly call a St. Xavier that went 10-2, finished region 4 runner-up to a great Colerain team, and only gave up an average of 8.4 pts/game (only Lakeland and Colerain broke the 20 point margin) AVERAGE. And I certainly dont recall that attitude you X guys had about that '06 team throughout the year as being average.

[Chicago]

I think it's ridiculous to claim that the Herbie was the most hostile environment any opponent of X has ever faced.

1) Having 8,000 or so people in a stadium with a capacity of 35,000 doesn't really do it for me, especially when a lot of the people are there for other games. I have a lot of respect for the Bomb Squad, but they're not THAT good.

2) Exactly how many other X games do you have to compare it to?

It's a nice superficial theory, but I don't think it holds up.

If someone who has been to a lot of X games agrees, then fine, but until then, I don't believe it.

[concha]

EXCELLENT POST

ya X is a real weakling how convenient when he is trying to explain away a loss to a school from a real football state

you win that debate EASILY

Devil's Advocate,

I'm not sure why you are calling X a weakling, but whatever floats your boat....

X 2006 was the weakest of the X teams in the last three years. Just a simple fact. That does not make them a "weakling", however.

In 2005 and 2007 they were undefeated, and in 2007 they did it versus the toughest schedule in the 3-year span.

In 2006, they were lucky to escape with a win over an Eds team that doubled them up in yardage. They lost to the two other really good teams they faced and were spanked in one of those games by a team that got bounced in the next round. They barely beat a 5-5 LaSalle team...

The 2006 Bombers were a good team. Very good. But they were at best the #4 team in Ohio D1 and were the weakest of the 2005-2007 St. X teams. Even their Ohio results show that.

[consumerman]

Devil's Advocate,

I'm not sure why you are calling X a weakling, but whatever floats your boat....

X 2006 was the weakest of the X teams in the last three years. Just a simple fact. That does not make them a "weakling", however.

In 2005 and 2007 they were undefeated, and in 2007 they did it versus the toughest schedule in the 3-year span.

In 2006, they were lucky to escape with a win over an Eds team that doubled them up in yardage. They lost to the two other really good teams they faced and were spanked in one of those games by a team that got bounced in the next round. They barely beat a 5-5 LaSalle team...

The 2006 Bombers were a good team. Very good. But they were at best the #4 team in Ohio D1 and were the weakest of the 2005-2007 St. X teams. Even their Ohio results show that.

duh u r the one making the claim they were a so-so 10-2 team

i was ridiculing you

[consumerman]

they were lucky to escape with a win over an Eds team that doubled them up in yardage

yardage doesnt win games points do

in one MNF game the 49ers had 506 yards of offense
and scored 6 points
and lost

[concha]

duh u r the one making the claim they were a so-so 10-2 team

i was ridiculing you

You are one weird dude.

When did I ever refer to them as "so-so" or anything like that?

You aren't ridiculing anyone. You are being an advertisement for idiocy.

[concha]

they were lucky to escape with a win over an Eds team that doubled them up in yardage

yardage doesnt win games points do

in one MNF game the 49ers had 506 yards of offense
and scored 6 points
and lost

Points win? Wow. And all this time I thought...

In most circumstances, when a team gets doubled up on in yardage by a team ranked #8 in the country, they lose. Pointing out exceptions o the rule is silly and doesn't change the fact that 2006 X was the weakest X team in the last three years.

[pied]

Points win? Wow. And all this time I thought...

In most circumstances, when a team gets doubled up on in yardage by a team ranked #8 in the country, they lose. Pointing out exceptions o the rule is silly and doesn't change the fact that 2006 X was the weakest X team in the last three years.


To be clear, yes points win, but I think we have clearly established that there are big points and small points. The definitions are allowed to vary by region, i.e. there appear to be more big points in Texas vs. Illinois, but that's to be expected.

To be clear, Big Points:
*Any points you score in the first half, or second half this is detailed below

Little Points:
*Any points your opponents score in the second half(your second half point are still considered Big or at least Normal sized)
*Points you opponenet scores of a long bomb on blown coverage(clearly a simple breakdown), a fumble/int returned for a TD, any special teams TD.

[Chicago]

I think any points in the last two minutes of the first half by your opponent are little points.

And any points by your opponent, at any point in the game, that resulted from a drive that included a fourth down conversion, are little points.

Two-point conversions by your opponent are definitely little points.

And missed extra points by your team count anyway (infinite points?). (Sure, we lost 22-19, but we should have won 21-20).

[skyway28]

I think it's ridiculous to claim that the Herbie was the most hostile environment any opponent of X has ever faced.

1) Having 8,000 or so people in a stadium with a capacity of 35,000 doesn't really do it for me, especially when a lot of the people are there for other games. I have a lot of respect for the Bomb Squad, but they're not THAT good.

2) Exactly how many other X games do you have to compare it to?

It's a nice superficial theory, but I don't think it holds up.

If someone who has been to a lot of X games agrees, then fine, but until then, I don't believe it.

1) The newspapers reported the crowd at 18,000. The game was viewable on vootage.com. Clearly, X had a major fan advantage further enhaced by folks such as yourself who are not X fans but ardently cheer for the Bombers in support of an Ohio or Midwest team. No game X has played featured that many fans rooting for X against the opponent. The Colerain games had more people there, but there was obviously a ton of red in the stadium.

2) Nobody has traveled such a great distance and disrupted their game week prep schedule as much as Lakeland did for that game.

3) Despite the St. Ed's game the week prior, Lakeland got special attention by X all off-season due to the target on its back of being ranked #1 in the country and more highly regarded than any opponent X has ever faced.

[skyway28]

".....doesn't change the fact that 2006 X was the weakest X team in the last three years."

Yes, that was the weakest X team of the last three years....by a quite nominal margin. Really, you could easily argue that the 2005 and 2007 teams did not face opponents as strong as Lakeland and Colerain were in 2006. I'll let the Colerain fans and others touch on this. You look at the scores and stats of the last three ywears for X and see very similar numbers throughout. That's the sign of a good program but also a sign there was very little difference between the three teams.

[Chicago]

The Herbie claims 50,000 total.

That's for at least four sessions (Friday Nippert, Saturday Paul Brown, Saturday Nippert I, Saturday Nippert II). I am not sure if Paul Brown had a Friday session or a second Saturday session.

That's an average of 12,500, using the promoter's numbers.

And even if Nippert I was over that, not everyone was there for both games.

Rooting for the midwest is not something I am really interested in. I went to see DLS. Thanks for guessing, though.

[pied]

The Herbie claims 50,000 total.

That's for at least four sessions (Friday Nippert, Saturday Paul Brown, Saturday Nippert I, Saturday Nippert II). I am not sure if Paul Brown had a Friday session or a second Saturday session.

That's an average of 12,500, using the promoter's numbers.

And even if Nippert I was over that, not everyone was there for both games.

Rooting for the midwest is not something I am really interested in. I went to see DLS. Thanks for guessing, though.

The average increases dramatically when you factor in the 17 people in attendance for the Texas High-Findlay game(attendance figure courtesy Bordertown).

[concha]

1) The newspapers reported the crowd at 18,000. The game was viewable on vootage.com. Clearly, X had a major fan advantage further enhaced by folks such as yourself who are not X fans but ardently cheer for the Bombers in support of an Ohio or Midwest team. No game X has played featured that many fans rooting for X against the opponent. The Colerain games had more people there, but there was obviously a ton of red in the stadium.

2) Nobody has traveled such a great distance and disrupted their game week prep schedule as much as Lakeland did for that game.

3) Despite the St. Ed's game the week prior, Lakeland got special attention by X all off-season due to the target on its back of being ranked #1 in the country and more highly regarded than any opponent X has ever faced.

Ohio fans were classy enough not to bring loud air horns to set off every time X tried to run a play. Equalizer?

And how could you possibly know how much X focused their existence on Lakeland? Eds was ranked #8 in the nation. But hey, ignore'em.

And FYI, X has faced Moeller, Ignatius and Canton McKinley national champion teams. Lakeland wasn't even X's toughest game in 2006.

[Chicago]

Pied: What is the longest bus ride (not flight) teams have to make in Texas? I'm guessing there are a few before the district schedules start that are quite a long way.

Concha: Who is St. Xavier paying special attention to at this very moment (it being the offseason and all)? Or are they just kind of hanging out, since they don't have Lakeland scheduled for next year?

[Bomber02]

Pied: What is the longest bus ride (not flight) teams have to make in Texas? I'm guessing there are a few before the district schedules start that are quite a long way.

Concha: Who is St. Xavier paying special attention to at this very moment (it being the offseason and all)? Or are they just kind of hanging out, since they don't have Lakeland scheduled for next year?


Not sure if this is what you're asking, but they play Don Bosco next year.

[concha]

Pied: What is the longest bus ride (not flight) teams have to make in Texas? I'm guessing there are a few before the district schedules start that are quite a long way.

Concha: Who is St. Xavier paying special attention to at this very moment (it being the offseason and all)? Or are they just kind of hanging out, since they don't have Lakeland scheduled for next year?

Without Lakeland, the greatest challenge ever faced by X since time began, well.... there is no purpose.

We are lost.

[pied]

Pied: What is the longest bus ride (not flight) teams have to make in Texas? I'm guessing there are a few before the district schedules start that are quite a long way.

Concha: Who is St. Xavier paying special attention to at this very moment (it being the offseason and all)? Or are they just kind of hanging out, since they don't have Lakeland scheduled for next year?

I am metroplex guy. We travel about 20 minutes or so most of the time.

I know Trinity took busses to Odessa earlier in the year, about six hours. In West/South Texas it is not uncommon to have to travel a long way to find someone to play.

Lubbock and San Angelo are 180 miles apart and in the same district. Pretty close to that for Midland/Odessa and Abilene. I suspect there is some stupidity in the Valley, but don't concern myself w/R4 teams that much.

[Chicago]

Lakeland to Orlando is 46 miles or so.

The flight from Orlando to Cincy is 2 hours and 7 minutes non-stop. It's 4 hours and 5 minutes if you change planes in Atlanta.

I'll take that over a six hour bus ride (nothing against the Texas scenery, of course).

[concha]

But Floridians can't run in Ohio. Too far from the Mother Ship.

[Price_Hillbilly]

duh u r the one making the claim they were a so-so 10-2 team

i was ridiculing you

You may be an adult, but you troll and write like a teenager. We're all sooo proud of your accomplishments. Did someone beat you up recently? Lose a job? Sounds pretty sinister from the bitter, defensive way you write. Ray Kinsella disease (17 and mad at my father)?



Go get yourself the newest Maxim and 5-knuckle-shuffle it some. For all we care, do it in the stands of the next DLS game. I'm sure it'll be a stress-reliever.

[consumerman]

the fact that 2006 X was the weakest X team in the last three years.

why?

because they lost to lakeland?

because colerain stomped them last year with a first string QB but didnt this year with a second string QB?

because 2005 and 2007 they went undefeated and won state championships?

the difference between the three teams is miniscule

you are making it like they were vastly superior in 2005 and 2007

of course losing to lakeland in 2006 is the main problem you have to try and excuse away

[WrongPerson]

to say the difference of the three classes was minuscule is to be ignorant. 05 had many senior leaders where as the 06 team were mostly starting juniors....you may not see a difference, but there is a huge one when it comes to playing on the field.

[concha]

the fact that 2006 X was the weakest X team in the last three years.

why?

because they lost to lakeland? [Partly]

because colerain stomped them last year with a first string QB but didnt this year with a second string QB? [Getting stomped by a team that gets bounced their very next game is a good one...]

because 2005 and 2007 they went undefeated and won state championships? [And going 15-0 in 2007 against a monster schedule while suffering key injuries during the year. Twice beating an excellent Colerain team in 2005... The 2005 team struggling to beat a 5-5 LaSalle team in addition to the Colerain buttwhipping...]

the difference between the three teams is miniscule [To you. The guy with the agenda who thinks that 30-0 with two titles is a miniscule performance difference versus a 10-2 team that didn't make it out of region (in a big loss to a team that didn't make the finals). And beating a 5-5 team with just over a minute to go does not look good on the resume.]

you are making it like they were vastly superior in 2005 and 2007 [I am saying they were better. Little to no doubt about that.]

of course losing to lakeland in 2006 is the main problem you have to try and excuse away [No excuse at all. You are creating a fantasy world that I am making them. X lost. Fine. X also nearly lost the week before playing Lakeland. X also barely pulled out a win versus a 5-5 team. X also got brutalized two rounds before the title game by a non-finalist. But there are fools in the world who think a team like that is nearly indistinguishable to ones that went 30-0 and won two titles. Amazing.]

Yawn.

[consumerman]

the 2 losses included a loss to a florida team

in ohio the difference betweenthe three teams is one loss to colerain

one game
one loss

colerain had a first string QB that year

they didnt this year

and even then they stormed back from a 21 point deficit to narrow the gap to one score

the difference between the three teams is one loss in the regional finals

the difference s miniscule

[WrongPerson]

No? The difference is that X was primarily a running team in 06, but in 05 and 07 they mixed it up a lot more while still being a running team - without having to rely on Ashley for most of the carries.

Also in 06, Ashley was being pestered with toe turf for most, if not all, of the season. That will hurt you especially when you're running it 75% of the time.

[concha]

the 2 losses included a loss to a florida team

in ohio the difference betweenthe three teams is one loss to colerain

one game
one loss

colerain had a first string QB that year

they didnt this year

and even then they stormed back from a 21 point deficit to narrow the gap to one score

the difference between the three teams is one loss in the regional finals

the difference s miniscule

1) Neither X nor Colerain went into the post-season with their original QBs. :hello: And X more than doubled them up on points.

2) The one loss was a butt-whuppin. And neither the '05 nor the '07 teams had close calls versus their 5-5 league doormat.


Keep going though. This is hilarious.

[consumerman]

1) Neither X nor Colerain went into the post-season with their original QBs. :hello: And X more than doubled them up on points.

2) The one loss was a butt-whuppin. And neither the '05 nor the '07 teams had close calls versus their 5-5 league doormat.


Keep going though. This is hilarious.

st x great against over-rated ohio woody hayes no offense teams and local d3 schoold from indiana

THAT is HILARIOUS

St X 0-1 against power state schools (fla, cali, Texas)

the record is 0-1 vs real states

sorry

[consumerman]

No? The difference is that X was primarily a running team in 06, but in 05 and 07 they mixed it up a lot more while still being a running team - without having to rely on Ashley for most of the carries.

Also in 06, Ashley was being pestered with toe turf for most, if not all, of the season. That will hurt you especially when you're running it 75% of the time.



did they mix it up a lot when they took three overtimes to score 17 points and beat a 3 loss team by 3 points?

[concha]

st x great against over-rated ohio woody hayes no offense teams and local d3 schoold from indiana

THAT is HILARIOUS

St X 0-1 against power state schools (fla, cali, Texas)

the record is 0-1 vs real states

sorry

OK, cool.

How's the cupcake schedule going?

[consumerman]

OK, cool.

How's the cupcake schedule going?

we are undeferated vs ohio

and beat a cali team by 28 that BEAT an ohio glc power that made the playoffs and advanced to the next round

[concha]

Round 2. Almost a title.

[consumerman]

Round 2. Almost a title.

certainly a cupcake for mv

[concha]

Given that Moe only beat one Ohio team with a winning record, and only then due to a fumble fest, you could be right. Although waiting until 1:14 left to pull out the win over a cupcake is a little dramatic, even for Californians. It was cruoel of MV to toy with them like that.

[consumerman]

Given that Moe only beat one Ohio team with a winning record, and only then due to a fumble fest, you could be right. Although waiting until 1:14 left to pull out the win over a cupcake is a little dramatic, even for Californians. It was cruoel of MV to toy with them like that.

they should have just thrown a couple more bombs like the first 5 minutes

moeller is a gcl playoff team that won a playoff game in the vaunted region 4 ohio playoffs

mv won 5 of ten games in cali

mv 26, moeller 22

[concha]

they should have just thrown a couple more bombs like the first 5 minutes

moeller is a gcl playoff team that won a playoff game in the vaunted region 4 ohio playoffs

mv won 5 of ten games in cali

mv 26, moeller 22

You are hilarious. What a drama queen.

"won a playoff game in the vaunted region 4 ohio playoffs". Yeah. Half of the eight teams that enter do at least that. Oh, and the following week they got reamed. LMAO.

[consumerman]

You are hilarious. What a drama queen.

"won a playoff game in the vaunted region 4 ohio playoffs". Yeah. Half of the eight teams that enter do at least that. Oh, and the following week they got reamed. LMAO.

they got beat by a national top ten that is the keynote win for st x this year

[consumerman]

Yeah. Half of the eight teams that enter do at least that

really?

thanks for the astounding announcement

[concha]

they got beat by a national top ten that is the keynote win for st x this year


Beat like a drum! You didn't lie this time!:clap:

[WrongPerson]

did they mix it up a lot when they took three overtimes to score 17 points and beat a 3 loss team by 3 points?

No actually, if you looked it up...there was something like 15+mph winds. Any coach in their right mind wouldn't dare throw it as often as we usually do in those sort of conditions. That AND a sophomore starting his first game probably would have contributed to most of the play being on the ground.

[consumerman]

Sorry if I diverse but wanted to comment on an intra state game - the basketball game between St Eds and The Cali school.

First for the game, I thought the cali school played very well and was more athletic than Eds for the first half, and had a nice double digit lead. I think in the second half, the St Eds defense adjusted and the cali team was too fancy and dipsy-do intead of playing solid fundamental basketball, while the ST Eds team operated the high-low to perfection. I thought the cali coach should have reigned in the fancy stuff sooner (if he did it at all). ANyway, great game. Both teams were solid.

The annnouncers kept referring to the cali team as the California State champion. While it is true, they are D4... there are 3 classifications higher than that and D4 is almost like a rural church league, few teams with very small student populations. The D4 team from cali traveled to play a favorite for the D1 title in Ohio, had a DD lead and forced the game into overtime.

I did like the St Eds cheering section although I gasped at yet another Braves Indian chant??????

Great game.

[concha]

Sorry if I diverse but wanted to comment on an intra state game - the basketball game between St Eds and The Cali school.

First for the game, I thought the cali school played very well and was more athletic than Eds for the first half, and had a nice double digit lead. I think in the second half, the St Eds defense adjusted and the cali team was too fancy and dipsy-do intead of playing solid fundamental basketball, while the ST Eds team operated the high-low to perfection. I thought the cali coach should have reigned in the fancy stuff sooner (if he did it at all). ANyway, great game. Both teams were solid.

The annnouncers kept referring to the cali team as the California State champion. While it is true, they are D4... there are 3 classifications higher than that and D4 is almost like a rural church league, few teams with very small student populations. The D4 team from cali traveled to play a favorite for the D1 title in Ohio, had a DD lead and forced the game into overtime.

I did like the St Eds cheering section although I gasped at yet another Braves Indian chant??????

Great game.

Jrue Holiday is a wonderful talent to watch. Smooth moves. Does it all.

Campbell Hall was the Left Coast #6 ranked team last year and starts there this year.

School size is frequently unimportant in basketball, especially amongst teams that go traveling. Though CH was on the road, they had four games under their belts. It was Eds first regular season game this year and they played it under a national spotlight. Apart from falling apart for a few minutes and getting in the hole, I think Eds was a bit better team, especially given that it was game one for them. Campbell Hall was very good though, but a bit too dependent on Holiday IMO.

Great game. great teams.

[DLSfanNW]

How about a Freshman starting for CH? Pretty good.

[concha]

Yes. The announcers pointed to him as a kid to watch out for. They had a 6'7" soph who will be a good one also. Losing Holiday after this season will hurt, but their cupboard will be far from bare.