Watch X-Mentor Live over the Web

[concha]

http://ohiohssports.com/

[consumerman]

CONGRATS to St X on a truly outstanding year

no worse than the second best team in the country and possibly the best (MNW)

[concha]

It will be interesting to see if SLC's loss to a non-undefeated team has any effect on MNW. The SLC win is about the only really solid claim to fame that MNW has this year.

[RidgePride]

It will be interesting to see if SLC's loss to a non-undefeated team has any effect on MNW. The SLC win is about the only really solid claim to fame that MNW has this year.

That and the fact that they just about blew everyone out in Florida. Also they have a star studded lineup. Most around the nation will have MNW at #1 and ST. X #2

[concha]

That and the fact that they just about blew everyone out in Florida. Also they have a star studded lineup. Most around the nation will have MNW at #1 and ST. X #2

While they may not have the numbers of marquis players that MNW has, X will probably send the between 5 and 10 kids to D1 programs and several others will get scholies also. X's lineup has won many honors at the local, regional, state and national level. The supposed talent differential isn't as big as many believe.

BTW, MNW has blown out most of its comp on Florida, but then again its in-state foes sport a sub-.500 record. In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king... Meanwhile, X's opponents this year were 135-46 including losses to X.

[RidgePride]

While they may not have the numbers of marquis players that MNW has, X will probably send the between 5 and 10 kids to D1 programs and several others will get scholies also. X's lineup has won many honors at the local, regional, state and national level. The supposed talent differential isn't as big as many believe.

BTW, MNW has blown out most of its comp on Florida, but then again its in-state foes sport a sub-.500 record. In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king... Meanwhile, X's opponents this year were 135-46 including losses to X.

Just because MNW played a weaker schedule does not mean that MNW could not have ran the table with ST. X schedule.The #2 team in the country is supposed to be able to beat every team except the #1 team. So the question is - Can ST. X beat MNW?
ST.X certainly has a case for being #1 though.
My feeling is that MNW will be ranked #1 in most polls. ST. X will have a few #1 rankings go their way too.

[the_big_toe]

Will MNW and Booker T Washington meet up anytime this year? I mean, they are in the same city, are they the same division so that they will have to meet in the playoffs or anything? :shrug:

[concha]

Just because MNW played a weaker schedule does not mean that MNW could not have ran the table with ST. X schedule.The #2 team in the country is supposed to be able to beat every team except the #1 team. So the question is - Can ST. X beat MNW?
ST.X certainly has a case for being #1 though.
My feeling is that MNW will be ranked #1 in most polls. ST. X will have a few #1 rankings go their way too.

They might have been able to run X's schedule. Maybe.

We KNOW X could because they did, and with key injuries in many of the games to boot.


X ran a gauntlet this season. MNW had a few good competitors here and there. Their one big name foe hasn't lived up to expectations. Nice to be in a position to get the #1 nod and only have to bother to be up for a game once every 3 or 4 weeks...... Not too many worries about having an off night when your average opponent is a .500 team.

[concha]

Perhaps the following should also be considered when evaluating X's season:


Winton Woods (7-4) W 35-7 Worst Loss
DeMatha (MD) (10-2) W 28-7 Worst Loss
Glenville (10-3) W 27-12 Worst Loss
Trinity (KY) (12-2) W 47-31 Worst Loss
Chatard (IN) (12-3) W 30-0 Worst Loss
Elder (7-4) W 18-0 Worst Loss I
La Salle (5-5) W 35-7 Worst Loss
St Edward (4-5) W 45-0 Worst Loss
St Ignatius (8-3) W 17-14 (3 ot) New QB
Moeller (7-4) W 28-14 2nd Worst (X Took a Knee)
#Elder (7-4) W 45-14 Worst Loss II
# Centerville (9-3) W 31-6 Worst Loss
# Colerain (12-1) W 29-14 Only Loss
# Dublin Coffman (13-1) W 10-7 Only Loss
# Mentor (11-3) W 27-0 Worst Loss

# = Playoff Game

[pied]

It will be interesting to see if SLC's loss to a non-undefeated team has any effect on MNW. The SLC win is about the only really solid claim to fame that MNW has this year.

concha-curious who do you think wins a game between X-MNW?

For grins let's say played this weekend in:

1-Columbus
2-Miami
3-GA Dome in Atlanta

[consumerman]

Perhaps the following should also be considered when evaluating X's season:


Winton Woods (7-4) W 35-7 Worst Loss
DeMatha (MD) (10-2) W 28-7 Worst Loss
Glenville (10-3) W 27-12 Worst Loss
Trinity (KY) (12-2) W 47-31 Worst Loss
Chatard (IN) (12-3) W 30-0 Worst Loss
Elder (7-4) W 18-0 Worst Loss I
La Salle (5-5) W 35-7 Worst Loss
St Edward (4-5) W 45-0 Worst Loss
St Ignatius (8-3) W 17-14 (3 ot) New QB
Moeller (7-4) W 28-14 2nd Worst (X Took a Knee)
#Elder (7-4) W 45-14 Worst Loss II
# Centerville (9-3) W 31-6 Worst Loss
# Colerain (12-1) W 29-14 Only Loss
# Dublin Coffman (13-1) W 10-7 Only Loss
# Mentor (11-3) W 27-0 Worst Loss

# = Playoff Game

extremely impresive results

as a devils advocate

the other states considered as major high school football hotbed, are california, texas and florida

beating ohio teams are great

there is no record to measure st x against california, texas or florida

of course a close loss on 2006 vs lakeland

also, you know the old story when stats in baseball started getting more detailed. when the yanks had rich gossage as a closer, somebody came up with a stat that the Yankes were like 79-3 (just a guess) in games gossage came in when the yankes were leading.

everyone was so impressed and said wow that gossage is awesome. then some other teams were examined as to having a lead late in the game and then winning, it was found out that many temas had similar and several had better records than the yanks with gossage

i would bet that there are other top teams also gave most of their opponents their worst or possibly only beating.

none had to go three overtimes to beat a team that previously lost by 21

[consumerman]

i would bet that there are other top teams also gave most of their opponents their worst or possibly only beating.

just looked at dls

all 11 opponents played, dls gave them their worst loss of the season

as I had expected

St X did not give ST Ig their worst loss of the season

so by that one measure (which you chose) DLS outperformed ST X this year by giving all 11 of their opponents their worst loss of the season

[concha]

My analysis would be based on the following points I believe to be true:

1) The game location is important in conjunction with the date/weather. X gets a big boost in an inclement weather situation - esp. involving cold/snow/sleet/wind... Northern football is run-focused for a reason. Ex. X took the Ohio Mr. Football and his 3,000 yards passing and 40 ppg offense and shut it down

2) X's defense got stronger versus the pass as the season progressed. For example, X took the Ohio Mr. Football and his 3,000 yards passing and 40 ppg offense and shut it down. Early success passing by Glenville and Trinity led to adjustments that strengthened the X pass defense markedly. Also, yu need to keep in mind that due to X's run defense, teams were forced to get any success they had through the air (X gave up just 58 ypg rushing on average).

3) X had alot of talent and there would not likely be the huge talent gap everyone thinks exists. These are quick examples. I'm sure others have offers/honors I don't have at hand.

Ashley - Louisville commit, 1st team All-Ohio
Craig - Stanford commit (many other offers from stronger teams), 1st team All-Ohio, All-Ohio Defensive Player of the Year
Scruggs - offers from Michigan, MSU, Louisville, others
Ball - Akron, Minnesota offers (others?)
Muldoon - 2nd team All-State
Milligan - Co-All-Ohio offensive POY, #8 ranked kicker/punter in nation per ProKicker
Baumann - 1st Team All-Ohio
Schneider - Ohio, E. Michigan, Bowling Green offers
Miller - Honorable Mention All-State

At least two or three underclass underclassmen starters are reportedy getting D1 looks already (Massa, Keuchly, James).


So:

This weekend in....
1-Columbus (risk of rain, high 40) - X favored by 10+
2-Miami - To be honest, a push. Not too hot (80), no rain. MNW by a few on turf if their speed is all they say. Part of this is due to the fact that I imagine most X players have probably travelled by plan more than once and they are used to big, hyped games with OOS comp.
3-GA Dome in Atlanta - Push.

[concha]

i would bet that there are other top teams also gave most of their opponents their worst or possibly only beating.

just looked at dls

all 11 opponents played, dls gave them their worst loss of the season

as I had expected

St X did not give ST Ig their worst loss of the season

so by that one measure (which you chose) DLS outperformed ST X this year by giving all 11 of their opponents their worst loss of the season

DLS played teams that on average won less than 6 games out of 10 apart from DLS losses.

X played teams that won over 80% of the time apart from losses to X.


Feel free to continue to embarrass yourself comparing a relative cupcake schedule to what X faced.

[consumerman]

DLS played teams that on average won less than 6 games out of 10 apart from DLS losses.

X played teams that won over 80% of the time apart from losses to X.


Feel free to continue to embarrass yourself comparing a relative cupcake schedule to what X faced.

I will agree to the fact that st x played a better schedule

I will also point out dls has given up 21 first half points in 11 games

(scored 338)

St x gave up 24 points in ONE half

[consumerman]

Feel free to continue to embarrass yourself comparing a relative cupcake schedule to what X faced.

your trying to make a great argument for st x based on giving teams their worst loss (13 of 15 games) is not as impressive as you think

I would bet almost all top teams can say that

dls is 11 for 11

[consumerman]

X played teams that won over 80% of the time apart from losses to X.

st x is winless in games vs california texas and florida

california is undefeated vs ohio in the herbie (3-0)

[concha]

No, 17. I believe the team that scored the 17 is playing for their state's big school title this weekend. X handed them their worst result of the year, dropping a 37-point bomb on them in the second half.

Since DLS's schedule is a nearly competition-free zone this year, why do you bring this crap up?

[concha]

Feel free to continue to embarrass yourself comparing a relative cupcake schedule to what X faced.

your trying to make a great argument for st x based on giving teams their worst loss (13 of 15 games) is not as impressive as you think

I would bet almost all top teams can say that

dls is 11 for 11

What did these teams' scheds look like? Near-.500 comp like DLS's?

[consumerman]

could we again get the laundry list of excuses on why st x took three overtimes to beat a 3 loss team by 3 that previously lost by 21

I cant remeber more than 4-5 and I know there were like 8

[consumerman]

and remember a team that won 5 of ten games in california beat a gcl playoff team that won a playoff game in ohio

[consumerman]

on the lb poly - ol game there were two guest halftime announcers

one was from maxpreps

he said this is one of dls 5 best teams ever

wow

hard to figure when they have had 5 usa today national champs (and 7-8 in at least one poll)

i say let the season play out first

[pied]

My analysis would be based on the following points I believe to be true:

...

So:

This weekend in....
1-Columbus (risk of rain, high 40) - X favored by 10+
2-Miami - To be honest, a push. Not too hot (80), no rain. MNW by a few on turf if their speed is all they say. Part of this is due to the fact that I imagine most X players have probably travelled by plan more than once and they are used to big, hyped games with OOS comp.
3-GA Dome in Atlanta - Push.

Fair Enough. TO be honest I have not followed X closely enough, except to see that they are winning and I believe a soph QB started a game(insert smiley) to understand what their strengths/weaknesses would be besides the obvious.

Do you credit the weather of the X defense for their success this past weekend? Could be a combo, but you appear to make both points above.

I think Glenville may, and possibly Moeller, but are many teams running from the spread like MNW in Ohio?

[consumerman]

i still recall what the ohio yappi posters said after dls destroyed elder last year

"dls is like st x except they have like 6 darius ashleys"

[concha]

X played teams that won over 80% of the time apart from losses to X.

st x is winless in games vs california texas and florida

california is undefeated vs ohio in the herbie (3-0)

Other than the delight you get writing it, what is the relevance?

DLS beat and Elder punching bag two years ago. (Top Cali team plays far from top Ohio team)

MV came from behind to win a squeaker versus Moe, who was erratic as heck. Moe went 5-3 in Ohio and had one win worth mentioning. They were spanked in their three losses and their coach got axed. (A clash of OK teams)

Glenville lost a close one with a Poly team that is nationally ranked. Glenville didn't make it out of their region and were 1-2 versus the only good comp they faced in Ohio. (Nationally-ranked title-contender Cali team with 12-1 record beats good Ohio team that couldn't get out of their region)


Cali rules.

[consumerman]

so concha

what is YOUR prediction if st x and dls played this year?

score and analysis of the game

[consumerman]

did moeller make the playoffs?

did moeller win a playoff game?

is that representative of ohio playoffs? so-so mediocre teams win playoff games

did glenville beat st iggy?

did they need 3 overtimes?

Y A W N

[consumerman]

Other than the delight you get writing it, what is the relevance?

the relevance is st x looks awesome this year but they are only playing local or indiana and kentucky schools (lmao)

they are 0-1 against teams from cali texas and florida (2006-07) widely regarded along with ohio as the best 4 states for hs football

meanwhile cali is 3-0 in the herbie

all of that is very relevant, it is just hard to admit it if you are from ohio

[concha]

i still recall what the ohio yappi posters said after dls destroyed elder last year

"dls is like st x except they have like 6 darius ashleys"

Sounds like one guy.

And I know a DLS fan who was at the Herbie (Plaindriver, you my know him). I think he put them behind X in his opinion.

There were many fine teams there in '06. Opinions varied as to the best.

[concha]

so concha

what is YOUR prediction if st x and dls played this year?

score and analysis of the game

I don't care. DLS Isn't up for the national poll title. Feel free to do your own though.

[concha]

Other than the delight you get writing it, what is the relevance?

the relevance is st x looks awesome this year but they are only playing local or indiana and kentucky schools (lmao)

they are 0-1 against teams from cali texas and florida (2006-07) widely regarded along with ohio as the best 4 states for hs football

meanwhile cali is 3-0 in the herbie

all of that is very relevant, it is just hard to admit it if you are from ohio

Not at all. A young X team took a higher-ranked Florida state champion to OT and lost. X was spanked and didn't make it out of region in Ohio. The team that spanked them didn't even make the finals. Wow. that was tough to admit.

Cali is 3-0 versus Ohio in the Herbie against teams that DNQ, lost in the second round after a very lucky round one win, and failed to get out of their region. Two of the Cali teams had/have one in-state loss each. The Ohio teams they beat had multiple in-state Ohio losses. No Cali team has so much as played a regional champion from Ohio D1. That was very emotional for me.

[concha]

did moeller make the playoffs?

did moeller win a playoff game?

is that representative of ohio playoffs? so-so mediocre teams win playoff games

did glenville beat st iggy?

did they need 3 overtimes?

Y A W N

And X beat the team that eliminated Glenville by 27-0...

And Moe lost by 20 to a team X beat by 15...

And X gave Glenville its worst result of the year....


And DLS plays a cupcake schedule.

[pied]

While I am somewhat enjoying this back and forth, I am puzzled a little.

Why the big question about their scheduling and worthiness when the second post of this thread you stated they were at worst second best behind MNW?

CONGRATS to St X on a truly outstanding year

no worse than the second best team in the country and possibly the best (MNW)

[consumerman]

what other top team took 3 overtimes to escape with a 3 point win over a 3 loss team that previously got crunched?

dls allowed less points in 11 first halves than St x allowed in one first half

[consumerman]

Why the big question about their scheduling and worthiness when the second post of this thread you stated they were at worst second best behind MNW?

I just thought it was a waste of time to point out that 11 of st x wins gave their opponents their worst loss in 13 games

that is probably extremely common

dls was 11 for 11

[consumerman]

st x winless vs florida california and texas

[concha]

what other top team took 3 overtimes to escape with a 3 point win over a 3 loss team that previously got crunched?

dls allowed less points in 11 first halves than St x allowed in one first half

I'll stop pointing out the reasons for the Iggy score, because you know them well and are acting playground by constantly bringing it up. That said, do you realize that X just routed the team that "crunched" Iggy by a score of 27-0? A team that averaged about 40 ppg going in?

[concha]

Why the big question about their scheduling and worthiness when the second post of this thread you stated they were at worst second best behind MNW?

I just thought it was a waste of time to point out that 11 of st x wins gave their opponents their worst loss in 13 games

that is probably extremely common

dls was 11 for 11

It's 13 of 15.

And when the average team is winning 80%+ of its games on average and you have suffered key injuries during the year, it is quite notable.

Unlike certain other teams, X did not have a schedule that permitted the equivalent of a weekly clubbing of baby seals.

[consumerman]

I'll stop pointing out the reasons for the Iggy score, because you know them well and are acting playground by constantly bringing it up. That said, do you realize that X just routed the team that "crunched" Iggy by a score of 27-0? A team that averaged about 40 ppg going in?

what was the results of the st x- iggy game?

moeller - mv?

cali - ohio?

[consumerman]

actually to me quite honest

st xavier (cincinnati) is more deserving of the #1 ranking this year than any team any other year ever

[consumerman]

did not have a schedule that permitted the equivalent of a weekly clubbing of baby seals.

actually one of those baby seals BEAT a GCL playoff team that won an Ohio playoff game

and another of those baby seals beat 5 different league champions

that is why most people hate the arrogance of ohio football backers

if you dont win in ohio you cant be any good

NOT

[concha]

actually to me quite honest

st xavier (cincinnati) is more deserving of the #1 ranking this year than any team any other year ever

Colerain '04 was.

[consumerman]

Colerain '04 was.

only ohio teams right?

which national powers did colerain beat?

top 10 national powers?

which team did st x 2007 beat that is still in the national top 10
ditto for colerain 2004

dls - mater dei 1998, finsihed #2
dls - lb poly - 2001, finished #3

[concha]

MNW has no current top tens, DLS ditto, X ditto....

X did bump two teams out of the top ten and has beaten several regionally ranked teams. MNW and DLS's scheds don't compare. Eat it.

[JuniorVarsityHughes]

"which team did st x 2007 beat that is still in the national top 10"
Well being the football expert you are, you should know that no team st x beat is in the national top 10 still. Part of this is due to the fact that St. Xavier handed them a loss (Colerain is #16). I don't know what you're arguing because many people have named St. Xavier's schedule the toughest.

"mv - moe" I'm not quite sure how relevant this is to St. X besides the fact that one is from ohio and one is from california.

"what was the results of the st x- iggy game?" What were the results? Well St. Xavier won by 3 points in 3 OT (I thought you had said that before maybe). And I think you also said that Iggy had previously lost to Mentor by 17. St. X thrashed Mentor in the state finals 27-0 which proves your "team a beat team b" theory is so mathematical and truthful. This win only shows how tough St. X's schedule really was. When faced with adversity they came out on top.

[consumerman]

"which team did st x 2007 beat that is still in the national top 10"
Well being the football expert you are, you should know that no team st x beat is in the national top 10 still. Part of this is due to the fact that St. Xavier handed them a loss (Colerain is #16). I don't know what you're arguing because many people have named St. Xavier's schedule the toughest.

"mv - moe" I'm not quite sure how relevant this is to St. X besides the fact that one is from ohio and one is from california.

"what was the results of the st x- iggy game?" What were the results? Well St. Xavier won by 3 points in 3 OT (I thought you had said that before maybe). And I think you also said that Iggy had previously lost to Mentor by 17. St. X thrashed Mentor in the state finals 27-0 which proves your "team a beat team b" theory is so mathematical and truthful. This win only shows how tough St. X's schedule really was. When faced with adversity they came out on top.

all good points

I pointed out 2 teams DLS BEAT, 1998 Mater Dei and 2001 LB Poly ended up in the national TOP 3, despite losing to DLS

[concha]

all good points

I pointed out 2 teams DLS BEAT, 1998 Mater Dei and 2001 LB Poly ended up in the national TOP 3, despite losing to DLS

While MD and LBP were both great teams in those years, the Cali playoff debacle may have helped out. Both could lose to DLS yet still go on to post-season success. In an Ohio D1 format, they would have had to face DLS twice, assuming they still played those regular season games. The likelihood of both DLS and the SS team remaining in the top 3 would have been next to nil.

[consumerman]

While MD and LBP were both great teams in those years, the Cali playoff debacle may have helped out. Both could lose to DLS yet still go on to post-season success. In an Ohio D1 format, they would have had to face DLS twice, assuming they still played those regular season games. The likelihood of both DLS and the SS team remaining in the top 3 would have been next to nil.

yes

for all practical purposes, it was if two "state" champs met in the regular season and then went their separate ways

the CIF Southern Section playoffs (back then before they deivided them up into Pac 5, Inland, etc) were as strong or stronger than a large number of state playoffs and a winner of those playoffs were truly a national power, so DLS beating them was a major accomplishment, even though it was in the regular season

section championships in california are nothing to sneeze at

In 1998 I believe DLS played 5 teams that reached their section final, might have been 4. Even mild-mannered and understated Coach Lad said that was a major challenge and it would be hard to argue DLS was not a great team and deserving of national recognition, the fact they were in the middle of the 151 game streak and people said they didn't play anybody could no longer be said

to a limited degree, DLS football is/was like Oak Hill Academy BKBL. in that they are numerous national champ for BKB, but have never played or won a post season game, although they play in the top regular season national tournies, they still have no post season one loss and your done challenges

[consumerman]

this is from Memory and is hopefully fairly accurate

rankings of CIF SS champs

1993 Rialto 2
1994 Mater Dei 1
1996 MD 1
1997 LB Poly 2
(1997 MD 5)
1998 MD 2
(1998 LB Poly 5)
2000 LB Poly 2
2001 LB Poly 3
2004 Mission Viejo (D2) 3

shows the strong national recognition of the CIF SS winner

[Chicago]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/football/year-by-year-rankings.htm

Enjoy.

[pied]

yes

for all practical purposes, it was if two "state" champs met in the regular season and then went their separate ways




In 1998 I believe DLS played 5 teams that reached their section final, might have been 4. -Difference is in other states their season would likely be over after the game and would not have had the opportunity to win more games in other states post seasons.

to a limited degree, DLS football is/was like Oak Hill Academy BKBL. in that they are numerous national champ for BKB, but have never played or won a post season game, although they play in the top regular season national tournies, they still have no post season one loss and your done challenges

Perhaps, but the play between good teams in different states happens 100x more in basketball than football.

[consumerman]

Perhaps, but the play between good teams in different states happens 100x more in basketball than football.

basketball has 3-4 times as many games as football

basketball travel includes a jockstrap for 10 players

football travel includes helmets and pads for 60 or more players

poor analogy

[consumerman]

this is from Memory and is hopefully fairly accurate

rankings of CIF SS champs

1993 Rialto 2
1994 Mater Dei 1
1996 MD 1
1997 LB Poly 2
(1997 MD 5)
1998 MD 2
(1998 LB Poly 5)
2000 LB Poly 2
2001 LB Poly 3
2004 Mission Viejo (D2) 3

shows the strong national recognition of the CIF SS winner

thx chicago

changes 1997 mater dei was 8 not 5

1999 Poly was 12

2002 Los Alamitos was 7 and Misiion viejo was 10

[Chicago]

No problem.

I'm here to help.

And to post on the college football board once every three months and then have it deleted 90 seconds later.

[pied]

basketball has 3-4 times as many games as football

basketball travel includes a jockstrap for 10 players

football travel includes helmets and pads for 60 or more players

poor analogy

I agree, why did you bring it up?


to a limited degree, DLS football is/was like Oak Hill Academy BKBL. in that they are numerous national champ for BKB, but have never played or won a post season game, although they play in the top regular season national tournies, they still have no post season one loss and your done challenges