pied,ridgepride and any other Texan

[steeler 01]

Who wins SLC/Cedar Hill.

[pied]

I'd go with SLC. Cedar Hill is not nearly as good as they were a year ago.

I know this will offend some, but it still would not surprise me if the Chill won though. SLC is still somewhat banged up. Newton may not play, don't know about Cantu, but if had some $$ on it, I'd go with the Dragons.

[pied]

Saw this post from RP on a SLC/CHill thread:

If Cedar Hill does win, it should not be considered an upset IMO.

SLC has struggled against every decent team it has played this year and Cedar Hill is the best team SLC will have faced to this point besides MNW. Also, Cedar Hill will be super pumped for this game. I think this is a toss up game or slight edge to Cedar Hill.

http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/showthread.php?t=23625

[sa68ag]

Cedar Hill's down from last year - 3 losses compared to undefeated and no Will Coe. SLC defense still seems way below prior years. Probably SLC in a close one but I don't thnk anyone would be shocked if CH won. I'd love to see SLC play Odessa Permian but they inthe other 5A division.

[steeler 01]

Saw this post from RP on a SLC/CHill thread:



http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/showthread.php?t=23625

I want a prediction from Ridge Pride not a run around answer. I think SLC will beat Cedar Hill by 2 td's. Cedar Hill runs the ball which is the SLC defense's strength. I don't see Cedar Hill stopping SLC at all.

[SLCDad]

If Tre Newton and Blake Cantu play I've got to say SLC wins by a couple of TDs or more. If Riley Dodge has to carry the offense alone (again) the game could go either way.

By the way, Dodge really didn't carry the offense alone (afterall there are 11 guys on the field) but without a strong RB the defense can completely key on Riley. From that perspective, without Newton in the backfield, Riley attracts most of the focus from the defense.

[WoodyHayes]

The Dragons win this one. I am just kickin myself that they will not get a taste of the MoJo this year. Ask Trinity how that is.

[Bordertown]

While I think SLC may be vulnerable in the playoffs this year, they will beat Cedar Hill.

[WrongPerson]

Didn't cedar hill lose their star qb freak?

If he's still playing I'd say its somewhat close...if not id say SLC by 2-3 scores.

[RidgePride]

I want a prediction from Ridge Pride not a run around answer. I think SLC will beat Cedar Hill by 2 td's. Cedar Hill runs the ball which is the SLC defense's strength. I don't see Cedar Hill stopping SLC at all.

I think SLC wins this one. Cedar Hill is the 3rd place team in their district this year.

The only teams I think can beat SLC this year in route to the title game is maybe Abilene, Desoto and Longview. And those are maybes.

The only teams that I think can definitely beat SLC this year is are

Katy
Odessa Permian
Trinity

Only Katy is in the same bracket but they are on the Houston side which means they would meet in the championship.


Outside chance teams but legit shot "should be" close games

Cedar Hill
Arlington Bowie
Abilene
Desoto
Lufkin
Longview
Smithson Valley
Plano
North Shore
Cypress Ridge
SA Madison

[RockinL]

I think SLC wins this one. Cedar Hill is the 3rd place team in their district this year.

The only teams I think can beat SLC this year in route to the title game is maybe Abilene, Desoto and Longview. And those are maybes.

The only teams that I think can definitely beat SLC this year is are

Katy
Odessa Permian
Trinity

Only Katy is in the same bracket but they are on the Houston side which means they would meet in the championship.


Outside chance teams but legit shot "should be" close games

Cedar Hill
Arlington Bowie
Abilene
Desoto
Lufkin
Longview
Smithson Valley
Plano
North Shore
Cypress Ridge
SA Madison

Longview probably wont be in it after this week against South Garland. A good spread offense will beat Longview....which SG has ( a good spread offense).

I think SLC beats Cedar Hill in a close one. Best team SLC has played this year other than of course MNW.

[skyway28]

I think SLC wins this one. Cedar Hill is the 3rd place team in their district this year.

The only teams I think can beat SLC this year in route to the title game is maybe Abilene, Desoto and Longview. And those are maybes.

The only teams that I think can definitely beat SLC this year is are

Katy
Odessa Permian
Trinity

Only Katy is in the same bracket but they are on the Houston side which means they would meet in the championship.


Outside chance teams but legit shot "should be" close games

Cedar Hill
Arlington Bowie
Abilene
Desoto
Lufkin
Longview
Smithson Valley
Plano
North Shore
Cypress Ridge
SA Madison

What is your basis for believing those teams could/would/should beat SLC? They haven't done it in past years. What have you seen from those teams relative to SLC that makes you feel this year will be different? (I am fully aware the asnwer is SLC's loss to MNW. Unfortunately for Texas homers, this game does nothing to improve Katy or Permian's standing vs. SLC).

[BobcatBomber]

The Dragons win this one. I am just kickin myself that they will not get a taste of the MoJo this year. Ask Trinity how that is.

How is MoJo doin' this year? have the playoffs started?

[Chicago]

So far, so good.

http://www.kylgrafx.com/mojo/schedphs.html

[Chicago]

I almost feel like SLC is actually in Texas.

Too bad for the Texas homers that it apparently is not.

[SLCDad]

I think SLC wins this one. Cedar Hill is the 3rd place team in their district this year.

The only teams I think can beat SLC this year in route to the title game is maybe Abilene, Desoto and Longview. And those are maybes.

The only teams that I think can definitely beat SLC this year is are

Katy
Odessa Permian
Trinity

Only Katy is in the same bracket but they are on the Houston side which means they would meet in the championship.


Outside chance teams but legit shot "should be" close games

Cedar Hill
Arlington Bowie
Abilene
Desoto
Lufkin
Longview
Smithson Valley
Plano
North Shore
Cypress Ridge
SA Madison

If SLC is healthy (that's a big if) they should beat every one of the teams you say should be close games. SLC would also beat Trinity. The only teams that should be picked as a close game vs. SLC are Katy and Permian. Obviously, anything can happen but if I'm picking, I pick a healthy SLC team.

If Newton and Cantu don't play, all bets are off. The SLC subs ARE vulnerable.

[steeler 01]

I think SLC wins this one. Cedar Hill is the 3rd place team in their district this year.

The only teams I think can beat SLC this year in route to the title game is maybe Abilene, Desoto and Longview. And those are maybes.

The only teams that I think can definitely beat SLC this year is are

Katy
Odessa Permian
Trinity

Only Katy is in the same bracket but they are on the Houston side which means they would meet in the championship.


Outside chance teams but legit shot "should be" close games

Cedar Hill
Arlington Bowie
Abilene
Desoto
Lufkin
Longview
Smithson Valley
Plano
North Shore
Cypress Ridge
SA Madison


If Katy meets SLC I expect SLC to win by at least 10 points. Katy is a run team who uses PA. Katy will have to throw the ball on SLC. They won't be able to run. I did catch a game on T.V of Katy this year. I have seen all 3 teams you mention and i don't think any of those teams would beat them. I think Bowie is probably the only team that can matchup with SLC because of their offense.

[RidgePride]

What is your basis for believing those teams could/would/should beat SLC? They haven't done it in past years. What have you seen from those teams relative to SLC that makes you feel this year will be different? (I am fully aware the asnwer is SLC's loss to MNW. Unfortunately for Texas homers, this game does nothing to improve Katy or Permian's standing vs. SLC).

Let me start by saying that The only thing you need to be aware of is how little you do know.
I believe MNW would win the TX 5A state championship no matter what SLC does this year. So leave it alone Numbdutz -

There is a huge misconception of SLC for those outside of TX. SLC has not dominated the state of TX in ANY of the past 5 years. The fact that they have been able to consistently win is the mystique that follows them. They have never EVER - EVER -EVER just ripped through TX dominating everyone.

SLC has almost lost every year in TX. They have had a miraculous run which boggles everyones mind in TX because they some how found ways to get the breaks they needed to win.

THEY HAVE ALWAYS HAD CLOSE GAMES EVERY YEAR. IT IS NOT A STRETCH TO THINK THAT THE TEAMS I HAVE LISTED WOULD GIVE THEM A GOOD CLOSE GAME.

They have never had a team like Galena Park North Shores of 2003 which dominated everyone they faced in TX but finished 4th in the national polls because they started too low to start the season.

SLC's Run

1st championship 2002 Should have lost 2nd round to Arlington Sam Houston but won 19-16 Arlington's QB "fumbles" the game winning touchdown and it goes out of the endzone giving SLC the ball at the 20. There was a lot of controversy about whether the QB actually crossed the goalline first. I was at the game I thought he clearly crossed the goal. Very easily could have lost to Lufkin when Lufkin was up 30-14 in the 4th. SLC made a series of incredible plays that has come to define this team.


2003 - Lost to Katy

2004 - Very close games against Abilene - Leander (maybe should have lost) and Smithson Valley.

2005 - Their best team IMO still a very close game against Grapevine and Plano.

2006 Everyone believes they should have lost to Euless Trinity in a one point win.

2007 Still a very good team but the defense secondary is the weakest of the 5 years - Thats just a fact man - spin it however you like.




It is not because they lost to MNW that I think SLC is not the calibur of the past. MNW would beat any team this year IMO. DID MNW have the same calibur of team in 2004-2005? so maybe they could not have beaten SLC in those years. In 2007 we know they can.

For the record, the only SLC team that I think could have actually been #1 in the Nation was the 2005 squad. Even though they won the mythical title in the other years. Polls are never accurate.

I have always stated that SLC is top 5 in TX heck maybe even top 3 or #1 who knows - I don't - Neither do you!!!!! Drop IT.

[SLCDad]

:stirthepot: I believe the 2006 Trinity-SLC game was thrown. I LISTENED TO THE GAME.... SOME OF THE PLAY CALLS WERE IFFY TO BAD, THE TROJAN PLAYERS PLAYED A BETTER GAME, THERE WERE SOME SUSPICIOUS FLAGS AND UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU GO FOR IT ON 4th DOWN WHEN AHEAD IN THE 4th QTR IN THE BIGGEST GAME OF YOUR SCHOOL'S HISTORY.
:mad:

HAS THAT COACH BEEN FIRED YET?????

LOL It wasn't the biggest game in Trinity's school history. They've played many games that were MUCH more important than a 2nd round playoff game.

The Trinity coach is one of the finest coaches in the country. Nobody from Trinity is blaming him, only fans who have no clue about the game situation and the history behind the call.

(I'll be happy to fill you in if you'd like.)

[SLCDad]

Let me start by saying that The only thing you need to be aware of is how little you do know.
I believe MNW would win the TX 5A state championship no matter what SLC does this year. So leave it alone Numbdutz -

There is a huge misconception of SLC for those outside of TX. SLC has not dominated the state of TX in ANY of the past 5 years. The fact that they have been able to consistently win is the mystique that follows them. They have never EVER - EVER -EVER just ripped through TX dominating everyone.

SLC has almost lost every year in TX. They have had a miraculous run which boggles everyones mind in TX because they some how found ways to get the breaks they needed to win.

THEY HAVE ALWAYS HAD CLOSE GAMES EVERY YEAR. IT IS NOT A STRETCH TO THINK THAT THE TEAMS I HAVE LISTED WOULD GIVE THEM A GOOD CLOSE GAME.

They have never had a team like Galena Park North Shores of 2003 which dominated everyone they faced in TX but finished 4th in the national polls because they started too low to start the season.

SLC's Run

1st championship 2002 Should have lost 2nd round to Arlington Sam Houston but won 19-16 Arlington's QB "fumbles" the game winning touchdown and it goes out of the endzone giving SLC the ball at the 20. There was a lot of controversy about whether the QB actually crossed the goalline first. I was at the game I thought he clearly crossed the goal. Very easily could have lost to Lufkin when Lufkin was up 30-14 in the 4th. SLC made a series of incredible plays that has come to define this team.


2003 - Lost to Katy

2004 - Very close games against Abilene - Leander (maybe should have lost) and Smithson Valley.

2005 - Their best team IMO still a very close game against Grapevine and Plano.

2006 Everyone believes they should have lost to Euless Trinity in a one point win.

2007 Still a very good team but the defense secondary is the weakest of the 5 years - Thats just a fact man - spin it however you like.




It is not because they lost to MNW that I think SLC is not the calibur of the past. MNW would beat any team this year IMO. DID MNW have the same calibur of team in 2004-2005? so maybe they could not have beaten SLC in those years. In 2007 we know they can.

For the record, the only SLC team that I think could have actually been #1 in the Nation was the 2005 squad. Even though they won the mythical title in the other years. Polls are never accurate.

I have always stated that SLC is top 5 in TX heck maybe even top 3 or #1 who knows - I don't - Neither do you!!!!! Drop IT.

I suppose 89-1 against Texas teams is not dominant. Whatever you say. I could debate most of what you post but I won't bother.

Of course polls are opinions. However, SLC had the strongest case for national #1 in 2004, 2005 and 2006. SLC has clearly been the most dominate team in the NATION over the last six years. Frankly, nobody else is even close over that period.

[WrongPerson]

I suppose 89-1 against Texas teams is not dominant. Whatever you say. I could debate most of what you post but I won't bother.

Of course polls are opinions. However, SLC had the strongest case for national #1 in 2004, 2005 and 2006. SLC has clearly been the most dominate team in the NATION over the last six years. Frankly, nobody else is even close over that period.

Don't say that...

Is there a website where I can find what is 5A D1/D2? And I take it D1/D2 changes from year to year because i remember cedar hill just making fools of that other team (cy-falls? something like that), followed by Westlake and SLC last year.

[pied]

Check this site out.

Should have most of the info you're looking for.

Gobble Gobble

http://5atexasfootball.com/

[WoodyHayes]

If they both win this week. Has anyone seen Royce City? I heard they are pretty darn good and was just curious. Gilmer played a cupcake schedule and it almost cost them last week against Liberty E(cant spell it,Eyleawe?) If the running back and qb from Liberty would not have gotten hurt, 5-5 Liberty would have sent 10-0 Gilmer home for the 2nd straight year. Gilmer does have the potential to win it all though. I have followed Gilmer now for a few years. Sort of gives ya a feel (unlike some schools around DFW like SLC) that you are following a "real" Texas team even though it is 3-A.

[RidgePride]

I suppose 89-1 against Texas teams is not dominant. Whatever you say. I could debate most of what you post but I won't bother.

Of course polls are opinions. However, SLC had the strongest case for national #1 in 2004, 2005 and 2006. SLC has clearly been the most dominate team in the NATION over the last six years. Frankly, nobody else is even close over that period.

My argument was to Skyway whose state of mind is practically "how dare anyone think someone from TX could give SLC a close game"

He states this even though SLC won by 7 and 11 to the two best teams they have played and neither of those teams are in the TX top 25.

Yes SLC has been dominant over the years in the aspect of finding ways to win. And Yes just like this year, they are still one of the best in TX and could very well win it all.

However, SLC has NEVER blown out all the competition in TX in any year. They have nearly lost every year and you know this SLCDAD.

Every year SLC has had teams that could have beaten them but to SLC's credit they have found ways to win - Very unprecedented.

The list I made was of the teams I thought would give SLC that very close game and possibly beat them.

I think Katy - Odessa Permian and Trinity would be favored in a game against SLC.

Cedar Hill is a 3rd place team in their district this year and it is the best team SLC will have played in TX to this point. We will see how it turns out. I will be in attendance at Texas stadium. We will see how SLC responds

[WoodyHayes]

I think your post about hit it on the head. SLC has come close to losing every year. Trinity gift wrapped a victory for them last year (I think they probably would have went down the field and scored, but dont give it to them) Certain SLC Fans on this site (not naming names) have a pretty skewred and warped view sometimes. SLC is probably the 5th or 6th best team in Texas this year.

[RidgePride]

LOL It wasn't the biggest game in Trinity's school history. They've played many games that were MUCH more important than a 2nd round playoff game.

The Trinity coach is one of the finest coaches in the country. Nobody from Trinity is blaming him, only fans who have no clue about the game situation and the history behind the call.

(I'll be happy to fill you in if you'd like.)

Yeah Lineweaver was going for the win. He converts on the fake punt and Trinity most likely wins the state championship last year.

If you fail to convert, Trinity still has two chances to win.

#1 stop SLC from Scoring.
#2 When Trinity got the ball back just needed to get in field goal range.

If you punt, SLC has about 70 yards to score and would eat up any chance of Trinity getting the ball back.

So they only had one option to win if Trinity punted

#1 stop SLC from Scoring

- Still Very Very gutsy call.

[RidgePride]

I think your post about hit it on the head. SLC has come close to losing every year. Trinity gift wrapped a victory for them last year (I think they probably would have went down the field and scored, but dont give it to them) Certain SLC Fans on this site (not naming names) have a pretty skewred and warped view sometimes. SLC is probably the 5th or 6th best team in Texas this year.


IF SLC loses to Cedar Hill, I think SLC could be around 15 or less in TX.

They have played NOBODY but MNW. The two toughest teams in TX that SLC faced this year were close games and neither of those two teams are top 25 in TX.

It has nothing to do with the MNW victory as Skyway conjured up in his very limited knowledge of SLC's history - And yes my opinion of MNW would change if SLC loses to 3rd place Cedar Hill.


Also, For the record I am not a SLC fan. I told Concha back in 2004 when SLC won their first mythical national championship that I thought Colerain 04 could beat them Just based on Colerain dominating the Ohio competition And SLC's struggles in TX-

[skyway28]

I suppose 89-1 against Texas teams is not dominant. Whatever you say. I could debate most of what you post but I won't bother.

Of course polls are opinions. However, SLC had the strongest case for national #1 in 2004, 2005 and 2006. SLC has clearly been the most dominate team in the NATION over the last six years. Frankly, nobody else is even close over that period.

As much as I hate to agree with Dad, he is right in terms of winning. MNW's win over SLC may call into question what would have happened had they played some of the better national teams. But, winning percentage wise and withn Texas, sorry, but they have been dominant no questions asked.

[skyway28]

IF SLC loses to Cedar Hill, I think SLC could be around 15 or less in TX.

They have played NOBODY but MNW. The two toughest teams in TX that SLC faced this year were close games and neither of those two teams are top 25 in TX.

It has nothing to do with the MNW victory as Skyway conjured up in his very limited knowledge of SLC's history - And yes my opinion of MNW would change if SLC loses to 3rd place Cedar Hill.


Also, For the record I am not a SLC fan. I told Concha back in 2004 when SLC won their first mythical national championship that I thought Colerain 04 could beat them Just based on Colerain dominating the Ohio competition And SLC's struggles in TX-

SLC has won the overwhelming majority of its games-playoffs and regualar season- by convincing margins. That they have had one or two close games each year CERTAINLY DOES NOT change the fact that they have been THE
dominant team in Texas. Moreso than any other team in the history of the state.

Whatever happens vs. Cedar Hill is not a direct reflection of MNW due to SLC's injuries and much less decisive home-field advantage.

[SLCDad]

Yeah Lineweaver was going for the win. He converts on the fake punt and Trinity most likely wins the state championship last year.

If you fail to convert, Trinity still has two chances to win.

#1 stop SLC from Scoring.
#2 When Trinity got the ball back just needed to get in field goal range.

If you punt, SLC has about 70 yards to score and would eat up any chance of Trinity getting the ball back.

So they only had one option to win if Trinity punted

#1 stop SLC from Scoring

- Still Very Very gutsy call.

Few people realize that Lineweaver was in almost the exact situation a couple of years earlier. He punted the ball and the other team drove for the game winning TD. It cost Trinity a state title. No doubt that previous decision weighed heavily on his mind in the SLC game especially since SLC had a much more potent offense and had been moving the ball well at that point in the game.

[SLCDad]

Yes SLC has been dominant over the years in the aspect of finding ways to win. And Yes just like this year, they are still one of the best in TX and could very well win it all.

However, SLC has NEVER blown out all the competition in TX in any year. They have nearly lost every year and you know this SLCDAD.

Every year SLC has had teams that could have beaten them but to SLC's credit they have found ways to win - Very unprecedented.

No team ever destroys EVERY team they face. It never happens. Perhaps a few (very few) teams have done it for ONE season, but nobody does it for very long. Some of the greatest dynasties in any sport included close games. SLC's dynasty in Texas (and in the USA) is no different.

[SLCDad]

Don't say that...

Is there a website where I can find what is 5A D1/D2? And I take it D1/D2 changes from year to year because i remember cedar hill just making fools of that other team (cy-falls? something like that), followed by Westlake and SLC last year.

There is no D1/D2 split for the regular season (5A is one division). The top four teams in each district make the playoffs. The largest two schools in the district are put in the D1 bracket. The smallest two schools go to D2. The placements are done district by district (32 total districts).

Since the placements are done district by district there are many teams in D2 that are larger than D1 schools. There are some districts where all of the schools are very large but 2 teams will still go to D2. In the 2006 state title games BOTH of the teams playing for the D1 title (SLC and Westlake) were smaller than either of the teams playing for the D2 title.

[pied]

Few people realize that Lineweaver was in almost the exact situation a couple of years earlier. He punted the ball and the other team drove for the game winning TD. It cost Trinity a state title. No doubt that previous decision weighed heavily on his mind in the SLC game especially since SLC had a much more potent offense and had been moving the ball well at that point in the game.


So instead of learning to play better defense, he decided nah, I'll just fake it next time....

Yeah the SLC offense was moving the ball at well. Do you recall what set up Trinity's possesion? Trinity stopped the Dragons on 4th and 10 to get the ball on downs.

Seems like the ardent defenders of the call are SLC fans and Lineweaver's relatives.

[SLCDad]

So instead of learning to play better defense, he decided nah, I'll just fake it next time....

LOL You CAN'T be serious. LOL

Trinity had one of the best defenses in the state. Trinity had eight games where they held the opponents to 7 points or less. If you take out the garbage points in the 4th quarter at least half of Trinity's games were shutouts. They played FANTASTIC defense.

The problem was that SLC had the best offense in the state. Lineweaver knew that.

[pied]

LOL You CAN'T be serious. LOL

Trinity had one of the best defenses in the state. Trinity had eight games where they held the opponents to 7 points or less. If you take out the garbage points in the 4th quarter at least half of Trinity's games were shutouts. They played FANTASTIC defense.

The problem was that SLC had the best offense in the state. Lineweaver knew that.

Well you know that and I know that, but somehow Lineweaver msised it.

He also seemed to miss the defensive series prior where they held the best offense in the state on downs.

Short memory...

[SLCDad]

Well you know that and I know that, but somehow Lineweaver msised it.

Lineweaver knew that his great defense had given up around 400 yards before that decision.

[SLCDad]

Well you know that and I know that, but somehow Lineweaver msised it.

Lineweaver knew that his great defense had given up around 400 yards before that decision. Much of that was given up in the 4th quarter.

[WoodyHayes]

He should call the MNW coach. The one who adjusted and shut ya out the 2nd half. Remember him?
PS: You got ate up on your home turf with a team that had to travel. I stick by my original assessment that SLC embarrassed the state of Texas. no doubt about it. But instead of my co-workers being upset, they were actually laughing.

[yallerjacket]

He should call the MNW coach. The one who adjusted and shut ya out the 2nd half. Remember him?
PS: You got ate up on your home turf with a team that had to travel. I stick by my original assessment that SLC embarrassed the state of Texas. no doubt about it. But instead of my co-workers being upset, they were actually laughing at the fools.

How old are you Woody? My guess is: Too old to be making fun of high school kids and calling them fools.

By the way, I live in Texas and was not even slightly embarassed by the SLC kids. I also know lots of other Texans who weren't embarassed by the loss. Maybe it's just you, man. Could it be that you take the interstate thing a little too seriously?

[steeler 01]

Well SLC plays the best team in Texas they've played and are up at this point 31-3.

[SLCDad]

Well SLC plays the best team in Texas they've played and are up at this point 31-3.

SLC destroyed Cedar Hill. Tre Newton did not play but his back-up, soph Tommy Avers, had 95 yards on 15 carries. The score was 34-3 going into the 4th quarter.

Trinity looked awesome against Lewisville in the game before. Then completely dominated them.

We sat on about the 35 yard line about half way up in the lower bowl at Texas Stadium.

[SLCDad]

He should call the MNW coach. The one who adjusted and shut ya out the 2nd half. Remember him?
PS: You got ate up on your home turf with a team that had to travel. I stick by my original assessment that SLC embarrassed the state of Texas. no doubt about it. But instead of my co-workers being upset, they were actually laughing.

I'm wondering . . . . who is the bigger embarrasment to the state of Texas? My vote goes to you and your co-workers.

[SLCDad]

Well SLC plays the best team in Texas they've played and are up at this point 31-3.

At least half the teams SLC has played this year are as good or better than Cedar Hill.

[steeler 01]

I didn't think this game would be tough. Cedar hill runs the ball and SLC is very good at stopping the run. If Katy and SLC play this is the same thing thats gonna happen to Katy IMO.

[steeler 01]

SLC destroyed Cedar Hill. Tre Newton did not play but his back-up, soph Tommy Avers, had 95 yards on 15 carries. The score was 34-3 going into the 4th quarter.

Trinity looked awesome against Lewisville in the game before. Then completely dominated them.

We sat on about the 35 yard line about half way up in the lower bowl at Texas Stadium.

Lewisville isn't very good. Looking good against a sorry team is very common.

[RidgePride]

I didn't think this game would be tough. Cedar hill runs the ball and SLC is very good at stopping the run. If Katy and SLC play this is the same thing thats gonna happen to Katy IMO.

There have been two teams in TX play SLC to within 1 point - Katy in 2003 and Trinity in 2007. Both are pound it out running teams with play action pass.

MNW beat SLC by 8 -

What really makes SLC go is the offense and defensive line - they are very good every year. They just never get the credit because it does not show up in the statistics.


Assessment - Teams that can dominate SLC on the offense and defensive line can beat SLC and that is about it.

[RidgePride]

As much as I hate to agree with Dad, he is right in terms of winning. MNW's win over SLC may call into question what would have happened had they played some of the better national teams. But, winning percentage wise and withn Texas, sorry, but they have been dominant no questions asked.

I know SLC has been dominant in terms of winning in TX. I am saying they never just ripped through TX DOMINATING Every team.

It is most likely that the special teams such as MNW 07 - Colerain 04 -and GPNS 03 would have beaten almost all the championship SLC teams.

But My opinion is that it would take that special team to beat any of the Southlake Carroll teams. I would take All the SLC teams of the last 5 years over any run of the mill state champ teams.

Frankly I don't see what all the scrutiny is about.
And NO! SLC did not embarrass TX. Not in the least. If a game were played between ST. X and MNW, would the loser embarrass their state?

It's high school football -

[consumerman]

Assessment - Teams that can dominate SLC on the offense and defensive line can beat SLC and that is about it.

almost uniformly, opponents of DLS say what sets them apart from other teams more than anything else is their offensive line. the offensive line is what Coach Lad coaches

coaches also say DLS defenders are able to shed blockers "at will"

the special teams are usually good for one long run a game (punt or KO return) and the defense can chip in with a long INT return

[steeler 01]

Assessment - Teams that can dominate SLC on the offense and defensive line can beat SLC and that is about it.

I think that goes for any team in the country.

[RidgePride]

No team ever destroys EVERY team they face. It never happens. Perhaps a few (very few) teams have done it for ONE season, but nobody does it for very long. Some of the greatest dynasties in any sport included close games. SLC's dynasty in Texas (and in the USA) is no different.

I agree. I am certainly appreciative of what SLC has been able to accomplish.

Those very few "special teams" like MNW 07 and GPNS 03 are the teams that can beat SLC or teams with great offense and defensive lines like Trinity and Katy.

[SLCDad]

Assessment - Teams that can dominate SLC on the offense and defensive line can beat SLC and that is about it.

Come on Ridge. You can do better than that. 99% of the time the team that dominates the offensive/defensive line will win.

[SLCDad]

I know SLC has been dominant in terms of winning in TX. I am saying they never just ripped through TX DOMINATING Every team.

It is most likely that the special teams such as MNW 07 - Colerain 04 -and GPNS 03 would have beaten almost all the championship SLC teams.

But My opinion is that it would take that special team to beat any of the Southlake Carroll teams. I would take All the SLC teams of the last 5 years over any run of the mill state champ teams.

Frankly I don't see what all the scrutiny is about.
And NO! SLC did not embarrass TX. Not in the least. If a game were played between ST. X and MNW, would the loser embarrass their state?

It's high school football -

I think SLC would beat MNW 07, Colerain 04 and GPNS 03 as many times as they would lose to those teams. The remarkable thing is that SLC has been able to win back to back to back to back to back to back. None of those teams ever did that. Nobody has. Not with the gauntlett state tournament that Texas has.

[RidgePride]

I think SLC would beat MNW 07, Colerain 04 and GPNS 03 as many times as they would lose to those teams. The remarkable thing is that SLC has been able to win back to back to back to back to back to back. None of those teams ever did that. Nobody has. Not with the gauntlett state tournament that Texas has.

IMO SLC to the nation is like the New England Patriots. The Patriots were not the best every year (but very close) and some years they are the best.
Every so often a splash in the pan super team can beat them.

What makes both teams special is the ability to stay very near the top every year.

[pied]

I'd go with SLC. Cedar Hill is not nearly as good as they were a year ago.

I know this will offend some, but it still would not surprise me if the Chill won though. SLC is still somewhat banged up. Newton may not play, don't know about Cantu, but if had some $$ on it, I'd go with the Dragons.

and I would have won some $$$.

[pied]

I'm wondering . . . . who is the bigger embarrasment to the state of Texas? My vote goes to you and your co-workers.

I would vote that way as well.

[pied]

Lewisville isn't very good. Looking good against a sorry team is very common.

Not certain how this is relevant, but Lewisville is not a good team at all. Their defense was good, but their O sucked.

[pied]

I didn't think this game would be tough. Cedar hill runs the ball and SLC is very good at stopping the run. If Katy and SLC play this is the same thing thats gonna happen to Katy IMO.

Like I said initially I expected SLC to win. I did not expect that. I went to follow online and the game was already 21-3. I've got a full bill this weekend, but may see if I can get out to TS.

[skyway28]

"It is most likely that the special teams such as MNW 07 - Colerain 04 -and GPNS 03 would have beaten almost all the championship SLC teams."

Overall, MNW has not proven to be freakishly special within Florida. They have managed to avoid playing any of the other elite teams within the state each of the last two years. They are loaded with talent, sure. But there are a lot of teams within the state that would prove to be far more of a challenge than the weak Dade teams they have played. For crying out loud, their THIRD round playoff opponent this week will be South Dade. A very young Lakeland team just ousted from the 5A playoffs beat SD 30-0. Yet, MNW will win 42-0 and everybody will presume they are sooo much better than the rest of Florida.

[pied]

"It is most likely that the special teams such as MNW 07 - Colerain 04 -and GPNS 03 would have beaten almost all the championship SLC teams."

Overall, MNW has not proven to be freakishly special within Florida. They have managed to avoid playing any of the other elite teams within the state each of the last two years. They are loaded with talent, sure. But there are a lot of teams within the state that would prove to be far more of a challenge than the weak Dade teams they have played. For crying out loud, their THIRD round playoff opponent this week will be South Dade. A very young Lakeland team just ousted from the 5A playoffs beat SD 30-0. Yet, MNW will win 42-0 and everybody will presume they are sooo much better than the rest of Florida.


How many teams have repeatred in 6A undefeated?

[skyway28]

A better question as it pertains to my point is: Of the Florida teams MNW has beaten the last two years, which of them are considered elite teams? Include the resume of said teams.

I can supply a partial list of elite teams they have NOT played:
Lakeland
St. Thomas Aquinas
Armwood
Miami BTW
Tampa Plant (2006)
Osceola (2007)

[pied]

A better question as it pertains to my point is: Of the Florida teams MNW has beaten the last two years, which of them are considered elite teams? Include the resume of said teams.

I can supply a partial list of elite teams they have NOT played:
Lakeland
St. Thomas Aquinas
Armwood
Miami BTW
Tampa Plant (2006)
Osceola (2007)


Seems like a stupid little game to play, but it's slow so what the heck.

Who are the elite teams SLC has beaten this year.

6-5 Flower Mound?
8-3 Heritage?
8-4 Cedar Hill?
6-5 Rockwall?

Have we proven anything yet?

[pied]

A better question as it pertains to my point is: Of the Florida teams MNW has beaten the last two years, which of them are considered elite teams? Include the resume of said teams.

I can supply a partial list of elite teams they have NOT played:
Lakeland
St. Thomas Aquinas
Armwood
Miami BTW
Tampa Plant (2006)
Osceola (2007)

To be clear, where do you rank MNW in FL in '06?

More importantly where do you rank them in '07?

I'd rank SLC #1 in '06 above Cedar Hill. I would have had Trinity #3 last year.

This year give me Permian/Katy followed SLC/Trinity. I'd have Abilene/SV/Plano/Bowie/Longview right behind them.

For the record SLC has played none of these teams yet.

[skyway28]

Seems like a stupid little game to play, but it's slow so what the heck.

Who are the elite teams SLC has beaten this year.

6-5 Flower Mound?
8-3 Heritage?
8-4 Cedar Hill?
6-5 Rockwall?

Have we proven anything yet?

This year, they have not beaten any elite Texas teams. Last year, they certainly did. And, in Texas much moreso than Florida, nearly all of the top teams play in 5A. So, winning the state title neccesarily means you have gone through the best in the state. You look at who is supposed to contend with SLC as the state's best this year, and its mainly Katy and Permian. SLC beat Katy in 2005 and Permian last year. Sure, those teams may have changed some since then, but its not like SLC has been seaquestered (sp) away from those teams the way MNW has been in Dade within Florida.

[Chicago]

A lot of it depends on how wide, if you will, the classes are.

In Illinois, there are 8 classes for 520 or so schools. So there are a lot of blowout championship games, and often, the best team in the state (subjective, I know) isn't in 8A. And a lot of great matchups between similar schools never happen.

I don't like the set-ups in states where that happens a lot. Florida is definitely one of those.

But I also like everyone to have at least a shot at a title, IF they do everything right (subjective again, I know).

So I don't really like the fact that in Texas, the best team is NEVER a 4A team (as far as I know). If no 4A team is ever the best, the smallest 5A teams don't really have a shot at a 5A title, probably.

Ohio may have it about right, as far as I can tell.

I think that sometimes the best team in the state should be in a lower classification, and the smallest teams in each class should have a reasonable shot at a title, but it shouldn't end up being pretty close to random as to which classification has the best team, as it is in Illinois and Florida (at least among the three or four highest classes).

[skyway28]

To be clear, where do you rank MNW in FL in '06?

More importantly where do you rank them in '07?

I'd rank SLC #1 in '06 above Cedar Hill. I would have had Trinity #3 last year.

This year give me Permian/Katy followed SLC/Trinity. I'd have Abilene/SV/Plano/Bowie/Longview right behind them.

For the record SLC has played none of these teams yet.

In 2006, Tampa Plant, Lakeland and MNW all had equally strong claims to being the best team in Florida. To say one of those was THE best is unfounded.

It's too early to say for 2007. You can't argue them being #1, but there are other teams that have a claim as well and there is still football to be played. How do we know MNW is better than Osceola, STA, Armwood, BTW or Pahokee?

Certainly, SLC has a lot of football to play. All I'm saying is we've seen nothing to indicate the rest of the playoffs will turn out any differently than it has the past few years. Katy and Permian have certainly not proven themselves to be as good as SLC just yet.

[pied]

In 2006, Tampa Plant, Lakeland and MNW all had equally strong claims to being the best team in Florida. To say one of those was THE best is unfounded.

It's too early to say for 2007. You can't argue them being #1, but there are other teams that have a claim as well and there is still football to be played. How do we know MNW is better than Osceola, STA, Armwood, BTW or Pahokee?

Certainly, SLC has a lot of football to play. All I'm saying is we've seen nothing to indicate the rest of the playoffs will turn out any differently than it has the past few years. Katy and Permian have certainly not proven themselves to be as good as SLC just yet.

Those weren't the questions. The questions were:

To be clear, where do you rank MNW in FL in '06?

More importantly where do you rank them in '07?

[skyway28]

A lot of it depends on how wide, if you will, the classes are.

In Illinois, there are 8 classes for 520 or so schools. So there are a lot of blowout championship games, and often, the best team in the state (subjective, I know) isn't in 8A. And a lot of great matchups between similar schools never happen.

I don't like the set-ups in states where that happens a lot. Florida is definitely one of those.

But I also like everyone to have at least a shot at a title, IF they do everything right (subjective again, I know).

So I don't really like the fact that in Texas, the best team is NEVER a 4A team (as far as I know). If no 4A team is ever the best, the smallest 5A teams don't really have a shot at a 5A title, probably.

Ohio may have it about right, as far as I can tell.

I think that sometimes the best team in the state should be in a lower classification, and the smallest teams in each class should have a reasonable shot at a title, but it shouldn't end up being pretty close to random as to which classification has the best team, as it is in Illinois and Florida (at least among the three or four highest classes).

Ideally, you're right. Problem is, there has to be some way to group schools together for league and state competitions. It's not practical to have teams in vastly different groupings in different sports, and there's no way to predict what the best teams will actually be. The only objective predictor of which teams have a competitive advantage is enrollment. We all know there are several other factors that come into play in determining what the best teams will be, but measuring that objectively for purposes of classifying before a season is impossible. And you can't just let schools pick what level they play at for many reasons.

I think California is starting to get at the best approach in having a panel select teams for bowl games after the playoffs. The one change I would make is in allowing the same panel to pick the matchups regardless of enrollment.

[skyway28]

Those weren't the questions. The questions were:

To be clear, where do you rank MNW in FL in '06?

More importantly where do you rank them in '07?


Answers:

In 2006, Tampa Plant, Lakeland and MNW all had equally strong claims to being the best team in Florida. To say one of those was THE best is unfounded. So, MNW was in the top tier of three teams.

It's too early to say for 2007. You can't argue against them being #1, but there are other teams that have a claim as well and there is still football to be played. How do we know MNW is better than Osceola, STA, Armwood, BTW or Pahokee? So, it is undetermined where they rank at this point.

[Chicago]

I am not talking about grouping teams by how good they are.

I am talking about grouping teams by enrollment -- with enough classes that the smaller schools in each class have a shot, and few enough classes that the best teams usually play each other.

Obviously, there is a (somewhat loose) correlation between quality and school size, otherwise there would be no need for classifications. But I think Illinois has too many, and Texas probably has too few (although it would be about right if the whole Division 1/Division 2 thing wasn't such a debacle).

[pied]

Answers:

In 2006, Tampa Plant, Lakeland and MNW all had equally strong claims to being the best team in Florida. To say one of those was THE best is unfounded. So, MNW was in the top tier of three teams.

It's too early to say for 2007. You can't argue against them being #1, but there are other teams that have a claim as well and there is still football to be played. How do we know MNW is better than Osceola, STA, Armwood, BTW or Pahokee? So, it is undetermined where they rank at this point.


In '06 Cedar Hill/SLC had equally strong claims to being the best team in Texas. To say one of those team was THE best is unfounded. So, SLC was in the top tier of two teams.

It's too early to say for 2007. You can't argue against them being #1, but there are other teams that have a claim as well and there is still football to be played. How do we know SLC is better than Permian, Trinity, Katy, Plano or Bowie? So, it is undetermined where they rank at this point.

Wow that was easy.

[pied]

I am not talking about grouping teams by how good they are.

I am talking about grouping teams by enrollment -- with enough classes that the smaller schools in each class have a shot, and few enough classes that the best teams usually play each other.

Obviously, there is a (somewhat loose) correlation between quality and school size, otherwise there would be no need for classifications. But I think Illinois has too many, and Texas probably has too few (although it would be about right if the whole Division 1/Division 2 thing wasn't such a debacle).


One big difference between Texas and everyone else are the handling of Private schools. Most good small programs are private schools. Not the case in Texas. I am not saying it's right or wrong, but it is definitely not a apples to apples comparison.

[Chicago]

In Illinois, they now have a multiplier for schools without enrollment boundaries (essentially, Catholic schools, and Mt. Carmel, Joliet Catholic, St. Rita, and that crowd are not happy about it).

Their enrollment gets multiplied by 1.65, I think (details are on ihsa.org), for determining their classification.

It's brutal for the Catholic schools that are not athletic powers. Talk all you want about Catholic schools with good athletic programs drawing from all over, but that's not the case for every Catholic school. And the ones that are mediocre, just squeeze into the playoffs, and have to play up one or two or three classes are just thrilled with the idea.

[Chicago]

The small schools in Illinois are usually rural public schools from downstate (Peoria and suburban St. Louis and that crowd).

[RidgePride]

One big difference between Texas and everyone else are the handling of Private schools. Most good small programs are private schools. Not the case in Texas. I am not saying it's right or wrong, but it is definitely not a apples to apples comparison.

Also, The Texas UIL has much stricter transfer rules. In Florida - Dade County, it is basically open enrollment. Just imagine if SLC could pull from the surrounding areas instead of within a few mile radius.
Trinity is about 13 miles from Southlake Carroll.
The Private school thing like you state is also a bonus for many states.

This is a quote from BIGDOGG out of Miami posted on 5aTexas football

"With Floridas no kid left behind law it allows a kid to transfer to where they want to go. thats what they allow so kids take advantage of it.they may fill they have a better chance of getting a scholaship if they play for a winning school, and as to a big drop off after MNW & BTW some truth to it."


I would bet a bunch of Euless Trinity Kids would go to SLC for a better chance at a scholarship.

[pied]

Also, The Texas UIL has much stricter transfer rules. In Florida - Dade County, it is basically open enrollment. Just imagine if SLC could pull from the surrounding areas instead of within a few mile radius.
Trinity is about 13 miles from Southlake Carroll.
The Private school thing like you state is also a bonus for many states.

This is a quote from BIGDOGG out of Miami posted on 5aTexas football

"With Floridas no kid left behind law it allows a kid to transfer to where they want to go. thats what they allow so kids take advantage of it.they may fill they have a better chance of getting a scholaship if they play for a winning school, and as to a big drop off after MNW & BTW some truth to it."


I would bet a bunch of Euless Trinity Kids would go to SLC for a better chance at a scholarship.

Kind of like if they pulled the soph WR out of a neighboring school that was the District newcomer of the year or something like that.


Just kidding. No reason to believe there was anything wrong w/Cantu.

Just to clarify, I didn't call the Private school thing was a bonus, simply pointing out differences.

[RidgePride]

The problem as I see it is that all these out of state haters of SLC want to discredit the past accomplishments of SLC.

They look at the MNW loss as proof that Southlake is a national overhyped team and that SLC has been overhyped for years.

All I hear is - that SLC is dominating TX the same way they have for years and MNW beat them. So that there proves the previous years would have been the same if SLC played any out of state powers.

IMO - That thinking is entirely narrow minded. MNW 07 beating SLC 07 does not prove that 04-05-06 SLC could not have been #1 nationally.

2006 Euless Trinity could have beaten Odessa Permian. 2007 Odessa Permian beat Trinity 30-3.

Trinity is still dominating everyone in their path.

In all reality there have not been too many teams as loaded as this MNW 07 team over the last 5 years. Was SLC the #1 team in the nation as the mythical title suggests in previous years??? who knows, but SLC has remained at least a top 5 national team the last 3-5 years. I don't think many other teams in the nation can make that claim.

[pied]

RP-I agree with a lot of what you are saying. MNW may be an all time great, may not. In my mind they gave SLC HUGE matchup issues from the announcement of the game.

I thought that the Dragons matched up much better w/DLS and stated so several times. The way things have played out, that may not have been accurate, who knows. DLS is playing some great ball right now and has been all season.

In many ways MNW was the perfect team to beat SLC this year. Juries still out in my opinion if they win it all, but they do appear to be improving as the season goes on w/out key players.

We'll see.

[RidgePride]

I am not saying MNW is an all time National Great. But they do have a special team - they also had it last year. From watching Florida's Booker T Washington, I think they are up there with MNW.

However, as stated previously it is basically open enrollment so all the athletes congregate to those two schools.

The schools that are in SLC's league are either Private schools - open enrollment schools - or they are from Texas.

Southlake has a very narrow base by comparison to make up its football team - roughly 2400 students 9-12 male and female - and all have to live in the attendence zone.

[pied]

I am not saying MNW is an all time National Great. But they do have a special team - they also had it last year. From watching Florida's Booker T Washington, I think they are up there with MNW.

However, as stated previously it is basically open enrollment so all the athletes congregate to those two schools.

The schools that are in SLC's league are either Private schools - open enrollment schools - or they are from Texas.

Southlake has a very narrow base by comparison to make up its football team - roughly 2400 students 9-12 male and female - and all have to live in the attendence zone.

Maybe they are.

If SLC continues to roll big time and wins the title and MNW does as well, is there another team that can claim to have a win as big as the one on 9/15?

DLS went played ECA at home. Forgive me but they were down, and I don't consider St. Louis to be the same level as TX.

Most of the Ohio big OOS wins were in Ohio.

Anyone else have any comparisons?

[SLCDad]

RP-I agree with a lot of what you are saying. MNW may be an all time great, may not. In my mind they gave SLC HUGE matchup issues from the announcement of the game.

I thought that the Dragons matched up much better w/DLS and stated so several times. The way things have played out, that may not have been accurate, who knows. DLS is playing some great ball right now and has been all season.

In many ways MNW was the perfect team to beat SLC this year. Juries still out in my opinion if they win it all, but they do appear to be improving as the season goes on w/out key players.

We'll see.

Who's with me when I say that today 07 SLC would beat 07 MNW?

Anyone?

OK, perhaps it's only me who believes that (but I do believe it).

SLC almost beat MNW with something like 14-15 players who were starting their 2nd varsity game. They couldn't protect Riley or block for Tre. 5 turnovers were committed yet the game was still not decided until late in the 4th. If the game was played today, I say SLC wins.

The SLC team on the field today would slaughter the SLC team of 9/15. I've watched most of the games this year.

I just hope we can beat Abilene.

[pied]

Who's with me when I say that today 07 SLC would beat 07 MNW?

Anyone?

OK, perhaps it's only me who believes that (but I do believe it).

SLC almost beat MNW with something like 14-15 players who were starting their 2nd varsity game. They couldn't protect Riley or block for Tre. 5 turnovers were committed yet the game was still not decided until late in the 4th. If the game was played today, I say SLC wins.

The SLC team on the field today would slaughter the SLC team of 9/15. I've watched most of the games this year.

I just hope we can beat Abilene.

Funny you bring that up now, when I tried to bring up similar points from Feb-Aug I was laughed off the board......

[SLCDad]

Funny you bring that up now, when I tried to bring up similar points from Feb-Aug I was laughed off the board......

I didn't know SLC would have 3 starting offensive linemen and a starting linebacker injured back in Feb.

But, yeah, you were right.

[RidgePride]

Who's with me when I say that today 07 SLC would beat 07 MNW?

Anyone?

OK, perhaps it's only me who believes that (but I do believe it).

SLC almost beat MNW with something like 14-15 players who were starting their 2nd varsity game. They couldn't protect Riley or block for Tre. 5 turnovers were committed yet the game was still not decided until late in the 4th. If the game was played today, I say SLC wins.

The SLC team on the field today would slaughter the SLC team of 9/15. I've watched most of the games this year.

I just hope we can beat Abilene.

Both teams may have improved but SLC had the most improving to do since MNW was already basically a veteran team and SLC had almost an entire new defense (having to play a state championship type game) in its second game. Also - SLC was missing a few Offensive lineman when they played MNW.

I personally would call a rematch game a toss up. I could see MNW winning again - I could also see where SLC could win.

[SLCDad]

Both teams may have improved but SLC had the most improving to do since MNW was already basically a veteran team and SLC had almost an entire new defense (having to play a state championship type game) in its second game. Also - SLC was missing a few Offensive lineman when they played MNW.

I personally would call a rematch game a toss up. I could see MNW winning again - I could also see where SLC could win.

SLC appearing to be better could have a lot to do with the competition level being that they really have not played anyone.

This is the same reason Trinity thinks they will beat Odessa Permian this time around.

I've posted many times (long before the SLC/MNW game) that games in weeks 1, 2 or 3 don't mean much. That's especially true at the high school level where the turnover of players each year is so high. Games in weeks 13, 14, 15 or 16 are the ones that count.

[skyway28]

I've posted many times (long before the SLC/MNW game) that games in weeks 1, 2 or 3 don't mean much. That's especially true at the high school level where the turnover of players each year is so high. Games in weeks 13, 14, 15 or 16 are the ones that count.
We all knew it was a foregone conclusion that, regardless of the outcome of MNW-SLC, the loser would say a rematch would yield different results. Never mind that MNW had an entirely new coaching staff and several new players starting as well. SLC also should very much be called a veteran team. Nonetheless, we can't possibly dispute any such claims since they are entirely hypothetical. So, hypothetically, I'll say MNW would beat SLC worse a second time around. Especially if the game was not played in front of 30,000 SLC supporters.

[consumerman]

RP-I agree with a lot of what you are saying. MNW may be an all time great, may not. In my mind they gave SLC HUGE matchup issues from the announcement of the game.

I thought that the Dragons matched up much better w/DLS and stated so several times. The way things have played out, that may not have been accurate, who knows. DLS is playing some great ball right now and has been all season.

In many ways MNW was the perfect team to beat SLC this year. Juries still out in my opinion if they win it all, but they do appear to be improving as the season goes on w/out key players.

We'll see.

About a year ago, I would I have said SLC easily beats DLS in 2007, maybe by 11-16 points

There is a long way to go for both DLS and SLC this year (as well as MNW) but based on the performance of both teams so far, (DLS has outscored its 11 opponents 338-21 in the first half this year, I believe SLC gave up 21 in the first Q against 6-5 Grapevine) I would not make the same prediction, in fact I think DLS could beat SLC by 7-10.

Again, that is NOT wat I expected going into this year.

DLS seems to have a chip on their shoulder after being upset by Canyon last year.

[pied]

We all knew it was a foregone conclusion that, regardless of the outcome of MNW-SLC, the loser would say a rematch would yield different results.-Most definitely.

Never mind that MNW had an entirely new coaching staff and several new players starting as well.-That seems to be overlooked. Pretty big stuff.

SLC also should very much be called a veteran team.-Certainly on offense, but if you are referring to the defense, that is laughable.

Nonetheless, we can't possibly dispute any such claims since they are entirely hypothetical. So, hypothetically, I'll say MNW would beat SLC worse a second time around. Especially if the game was not played in front of 30,000 SLC supporters.-I might agree with you.

Certainly the young Dragon secondary is better and the team like all good teams do, has improved as the season has progressed. If the game were played today, what are the Dragons doing better? Well, Tre has been out the last two games and was pretty ineffective at the time, so I can't see him being a difference in a rematch today. Certainly if a few breaks went SLC's way they could win, but I can't think of much that would convince me to pick the Dragons.

[DLSfanNW]

About a year ago, I would I have said SLC easily beats DLS in 2007, maybe by 11-16 points

There is a long way to go for both DLS and SLC this year (as well as MNW) but based on the performance of both teams so far, (DLS has outscored its 11 opponents 338-21 in the first half this year, I believe SLC gave up 21 in the first Q against 6-5 Grapevine) I would not make the same prediction, in fact I think DLS could beat SLC by 7-10.

Again, that is NOT wat I expected going into this year.

DLS seems to have a chip on their shoulder after being upset by Canyon last year.

That and the new and improved offense.

[WoodyHayes]

About a year ago, I would I have said SLC easily beats DLS in 2007, maybe by 11-16 points

There is a long way to go for both DLS and SLC this year (as well as MNW) but based on the performance of both teams so far, (DLS has outscored its 11 opponents 338-21 in the first half this year, I believe SLC gave up 21 in the first Q against 6-5 Grapevine) I would not make the same prediction, in fact I think DLS could beat SLC by 7-10.

Again, that is NOT wat I expected going into this year.

DLS seems to have a chip on their shoulder after being upset by Canyon last year. being a very neutral and unbiased observer, I believe,
1 - DLS handles SLC by around 10-14 points
2 - Any arrogant fan that believes SLC would beat MNW if they played again is a true "homer" MNW does not make the UNFORCED errors in the game and if SLC travels to FLA instead of the other way around, I would look for a 21 point MNW victory. MNW adjusted at half and SHUT THEM OUT! You want to play them again? LOL. LOL. Riley Dodge got exposed during that game. If Papa plays him at QB he will win less games than he did this year. Lets be honest. Chase Daniel is a big time QB. Riley Dodge is not.

[consumerman]

MNW adjusted at half and SHUT THEM OUT!

That is a point many overlook

[RidgePride]

being a very neutral and unbiased observer, I believe,
1 - DLS handles SLC by around 10-14 points
2 - Any arrogant fan that believes SLC would beat MNW if they played again is a true "homer" MNW does not make the UNFORCED errors in the game and if SLC travels to FLA instead of the other way around, I would look for a 21 point MNW victory. MNW adjusted at half and SHUT THEM OUT! You want to play them again? LOL. LOL. Riley Dodge got exposed during that game. If Papa plays him at QB he will win less games than he did this year. Lets be honest. Chase Daniel is a big time QB. Riley Dodge is not.

I don't think anyone buys the "Neutral observer" angle you are portraying. You may live in TX but you are a Southlake Carroll hater and one that has an Ohio ball allegiance.

I think the game was a little closer than what you are giving credit for - the stats were almost identical in passing and rushing.
One team had 5 turnovers with one inside the 5 yard line before halftime, the other only had 3. Those are mistakes. Both are uncharacteristic for both teams.

Tre does not usually fumble on a hit like that (Don't give me that Florida hits harder stuff either). Just as the MNW punt return guy does not usually muff a punt return.
I too would favor MNW in a rematch but by about the same margin 7-10.
I don't think ST. X is any better than SLC this year either (maybe on par).

But like I said previously - The schools that are in SLC's league are either Private schools - open enrollment schools - or they are from Texas.

Southlake has a very narrow base by comparison to make up its football team - roughly 2400 students 9-12 male and female - and all have to live in the attendence zone.

[consumerman]

I've posted many times (long before the SLC/MNW game) that games in weeks 1, 2 or 3 don't mean much. That's especially true at the high school level where the turnover of players each year is so high. Games in weeks 13, 14, 15 or 16 are the ones that count.

My memory is that, yes, you did post long before the MNW/SLC game was announced that "pre-season" intra-state matchups were not important.

However, once the MNW-SLC was announced, you started seven different threads (at least) on either MNW or the SLC-MNW game. One would reasonably deduct that now preseason intra-state matchups were extremely important to you.

It has been a few months since SLC lost and they have survived a rather weak schedule to win the rest of their games, so far.

And now you are back to the preseason intra-state games are meaningless vs. late season games stand again.

So I guess if SLC would have beaten MNW you would not have to flip-flop for a third (or fourth) time on this one subject.

I funny it all rather amusing.

[consumerman]

I don't think anyone buys the "Neutral observer" angle you are portraying

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

I wish the SLC faithful would just admit MNW was the better team and still is.

Not the woulda coulda shoulda we're better now crapola.

[RidgePride]

I don't think anyone buys the "Neutral observer" angle you are portraying

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

I wish the SLC faithful would just admit MNW was the better team and still is.

Not the woulda coulda shoulda we're better now crapola.



Excuse me - did you not read my previous post - especially this quote from me

"I too would favor MNW in a rematch but by about the same margin 7-10."

I never claimed to be neutral - I am for SLC if it benefits the greatness of TX high school football. When SLC plays another TX team I have rooted against them since 2002. However, I do recognize the greatness of their accomlishments.

[sa68ag]

I love Texas HS football but MNW physically flat kicked SLC's butt in that game. To say SLC would beat them now is a real, real strectch. Who knows about prior years but in 2007 MNW is the better team - end of story.

[WoodyHayes]

I love Texas HS football but MNW physically flat kicked SLC's butt in that game. To say SLC would beat them now is a real, real strectch. Who knows about prior years but in 2007 MNW is the better team - end of story. A few key points that are forgotten.
1 - MNW adjusted and shut out SLC in the 2nd half. They play again and its ugly for the boys from Carroll
2 - Wasson got outcoached. MNW coach made the adjustments. Wasson did not.
3 - Riley Dodge got exposed for what he is and will always be. A very good HIGH SCHOOL QB. He did not have the athleticism or the speed to handle MNW's D-1 prospects. Why does he look so good? Because he has a very good football mind and knows a very complex offense that not many high school teams can defend. Move ahead to the athletes of D-1 college ball and Riley would get what he got from MNW on a weekly basis. Dont believe it? Ask Papa Dodge. He got the education this year. I am sure Junior is a nice kid, but from neutral eyes, no way is he gonna make it at D-1 playing QB. I envision him as a very good D-3 QB. Like maybe a Mount Union or something like that.

[SLCDad]

A few key points that are forgotten.
1 - MNW adjusted and shut out SLC in the 2nd half. They play again and its ugly for the boys from Carroll
2 - Wasson got outcoached. MNW coach made the adjustments. Wasson did not.
3 - Riley Dodge got exposed for what he is and will always be. A very good HIGH SCHOOL QB. He did not have the athleticism or the speed to handle MNW's D-1 prospects. Why does he look so good? Because he has a very good football mind and knows a very complex offense that not many high school teams can defend. Move ahead to the athletes of D-1 college ball and Riley would get what he got from MNW on a weekly basis. Dont believe it? Ask Papa Dodge. He got the education this year. I am sure Junior is a nice kid, but from neutral eyes, no way is he gonna make it at D-1 playing QB. I envision him as a very good D-3 QB. Like maybe a Mount Union or something like that.

We know. We know. You hate SLC and every person and every player connected with the program. We get it.

Mack Brown and The University of Texas thought enough of Riley Dodge to offer him a scholarship but I suppose you know better.

[SLCDad]

I love Texas HS football but MNW physically flat kicked SLC's butt in that game. To say SLC would beat them now is a real, real strectch. Who knows about prior years but in 2007 MNW is the better team - end of story.

No doubt MNW was the better team on 9/15. That was settled. The question is who is the better team now?

History is full of examples when a team avenged a loss early in the season to the same team. I believe that would happen this year between SLC and MNW.

[pied]

No doubt MNW was the better team on 9/15. That was settled. The question is who is the better team now?

History is full of examples when a team avenged a loss early in the season to the same team. I believe that would happen this year between SLC and MNW.

I totally agree with the bolded part above.

I am curious as to the reasons you think that SLC would win the second time around. What have they changed since the first go round.

[Chicago]

It's like when Bill and Ted kept beating the Grim Reaper, and the Grim Reaper kept wanting to play again.

2 out of 3?

3 out of 5?

4 out of 7?

If they played again, and MNW won, my guess is SLCDad would be saying that it is very hard to beat a team three times, and if they played again, SLC would win.

Turn those machines back on!

[pied]

While MNW won the game and left no doubt with most watching the game who was the better team, it seems like the results are becoming legendary.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the Bulls had one scoring play, a 75 yard TD in the second half. Coupled with the botched snap, that was just about it for scoring in the second half, right?

[fish82]

It's like when Bill and Ted kept beating the Grim Reaper, and the Grim Reaper kept wanting to play again.

2 out of 3?

3 out of 5?

4 out of 7?

If they played again, and MNW won, my guess is SLCDad would be saying that it is very hard to beat a team three times, and if they played again, SLC would win.

Turn those machines back on!

LOL.....Long Live The Dukes!!!!!

[WoodyHayes]

We know. We know. You hate SLC and every person and every player connected with the program. We get it.

Mack Brown and The University of Texas thought enough of Riley Dodge to offer him a scholarship but I suppose you know better. Was that scholarship as a QB? NO. Riley Dodge would have played on special teams at all if he had went to UT. What about the other parts of the post?
1- Wasson got outcoached
2 - SLC got shut out
3 - I am giving Riley his props. He is a fine high school football QB and has given SLC fans much to cheer about.
But come on Dad, he is not a big time D-1 college QB. He is smart and runs a complex offense that most high schools can not defend. Props to him. But as Papa Dodge found out, there is a huge difference between high school and college.
It pains me that you think I am a hater. I am not. I am a neutral observer who likes Gilmer (and yes they are probably going home this week) who calls them like they see them. On a national level, I believe SLC would beat St. X right now (X has injuries at QB) but some teams from FLA and Cali who have fast D-1 athletes would probably take the fire out of the Dragons mouth. Why do I say that? Because they also have the offenses that can score points and SLC's defense is suspect at best, bad against good teams at worst.

[consumerman]

The question is who is the better team now?

NO IT IS NOT

SLC had their chance

[Chicago]

Maybe standings could always have an asterisk.

Dallas Cowboys 11-1-0*

*results of actual games, and not necessarily indicative of who would win today

[Chicago]

And you could adjust game stories, too.

"Randy Moss caught a 27-yard touchdown pass from Tom Brady with 3:18 left in the first half, but a few minutes earlier or a few minutes later he might have dropped it."

[pied]

Maybe standings could always have an asterisk.

Dallas Cowboys 11-1-0*

*results of actual games, and not necessarily indicative of who would win today

You are actually dead on. Leading up to the Pats-Colts game and right afterwards, everyone stated that while a huge game, they likely would meet again in the Conf Championship game.

Same thing with the Cowboys/Packers. "This will decide home field." I listeded to JJ talk about how this was the biggest game in TS for 15 years, but will not knock either team out.

In HS football, especially at the National level we rarely have that chance. There is one game and that's all we get.

There really is not a lot to talk about. This week, we have had 3 threads started, with a total 13 replies. No one cares, even when we are knee deep in the playoffs.

Might as well discuss what people want to talk about, right? We could rehash the game, but it was pretty much a snoozer the first go round especially in the second half.

[pied]

And you could adjust game stories, too.

"Randy Moss caught a 27-yard touchdown pass from Tom Brady with 3:18 left in the first half, but a few minutes earlier or a few minutes later he might have dropped it."

Like "What happens if Jackie Smith doesn't drop that TD pass in the endzone against Pittsburgh."

[Chicago]

I believe today he would catch it.

[Chicago]

By the way, you think maybe you could have the state championships in a city that doesn't cost 80 billion dollars to fly to?

And Austin didn't look any better.

[pied]

Pretty big debate about having one location. I don't like it, but understand the reasoning. Last year was a dud w/attendance. This year could be as well or awesome. I'll be on a cruise either way.

Have you tried connecting through Mexico City?

[RidgePride]

Its like I said before Steeler 01. SLC has always had close games. The fact that they have managed to get the breaks they need to win in previous years has been unfathomable. That is what the SLC mystique was all about in my eyes.

Before today 79-1 since 2002 with at least 10 very near losses.

I feel that fate finally caught up with them today. I know you want them to be TX's best 2007 because MNW beat them but whatever. For all the biased and unbiased critics of SLC - It is what it is in 2007. I just did not think SLC's defense would carry them to another championship this year.

MNW may very well be the best team in the nation, but in TX they would have had many more close games in the playoffs and possible near losses than what they experience in Florida.

[consumerman]

No doubt MNW was the better team on 9/15. That was settled. The question is who is the better team now?

History is full of examples when a team avenged a loss early in the season to the same team. I believe that would happen this year between SLC and MNW.

Still believe that?

[RidgePride]

Miami Northwestern was a better team than SLC on 9/15/07 however,
Trinity did look horrible on 9/15/07 losing to Odessa Permian 30-3. Today Trinity beat Odessa Permian 38-14.


So you never truly know.

I'm inclined to believe MNW would have beaten SLC again but I also thought Odessa Permian would beat Trinity again in the rematch.

[consumerman]

I posted quite a while ago (weeks if not months) that Bill Walsh, widely considered the best offensive/passing coach in history was not a big fan of 4 and 5 wide reciever spread offenses for many reasons, one of which was the vulnerability of a QB to injury

not sure how Dodge got injured and I am sorry for him, but Bill Walsh probably would have said TOLD YA

[pied]

not sure how Dodge got injured and I am sorry for him, but Bill Walsh probably would have said TOLD YA


Just saw it on the news. Bang bang clean hit.

TD spinner/keeper by the Abilene QB was cool.

Fumbled snap on the ten w/10 seconds left by SLC will be rehashed several times I believe. oops, kids got to be sick over that one.