St. Xavier 38, Miami Northwestern 12

[skyway28]

That is the current projection from calpreps' computer. The computer also still projects a four-point win for SLC over MNW. Miami BTW is favored 28-22 over the Summerville team they destroyed by 33 on ESPN, and Jax First Coast is a 12-point dog to the Berkeley team they beat on ESPNU. Nice to see the computer getting more "accurate" as the season goes on.

[concha]

Sounds about right.

[skyway28]

I'll assume you are being sarcastic. Though, you have frequently cited calpreps' SOS and team ratings as evidence of teams' strong or weak schedules, so maybe not.

[concha]

I'll assume you are being sarcastic. Though, you have frequently cited calpreps' SOS and team ratings as evidence of teams' strong or weak schedules, so maybe not.

I do not cite calpreps as absolute proof of anything, but national pollsters (ex. Jamie DeMoney of PrepNation, Kevin Armstrong of SI, Risemag) tend to agree on the difficulty of schedules like St. X's as being amongst the most difficult in the nation. Humans and computer agree.

Playing in Cincy, in Ohio D1, and playing out-of-state powers will do that.

[fish82]

I doubt X would beat MNW 38-12. I think they'd have a good chance at winning, but not by that much!

[pied]

I do not cite calpreps as absolute proof of anything, but national pollsters (ex. Jamie DeMoney of PrepNation, Kevin Armstrong of SI, Risemag) tend to agree on the difficulty of schedules like St. X's as being amongst the most difficult in the nation. Humans and computer agree.

Playing in Cincy, in Ohio D1, and playing out-of-state powers will do that.

Correct me if I am wrong, but all of those guys have MNW #1 and St. X #2-5.

So what do the computers and pollsters agree on?

http://calpreps.com/cgi-bin/2007/polls_view.pl?poll=compilation&week=11%2F12&submit=submit

[concha]

Correct me if I am wrong, but all of those guys have MNW #1 and St. X #2-5.

So what do the computers and pollsters agree on?

http://calpreps.com/cgi-bin/2007/polls_view.pl?poll=compilation&week=11%2F12&submit=submit

pied,

What are you talking about?

I am simply saying that calpreps and the pollsters agree that X has one of the toughest schedules in the country. Do you have info to the contrary?

[pied]

pied,

What are you talking about?

I am simply saying that calpreps and the pollsters agree that X has one of the toughest schedules in the country. Do you have info to the contrary?

I thought you were referring to the Calpreps outcome not the SOS. oops

[consumerman]

what is the prediciton for a st x - st ig game

a game in real life it took st x overtimes to squeak out a 3 point win

[pied]

St. Xavier (Cincinnati, OH) 27, St. Ignatius (Cleveland, OH) 12

[consumerman]

St. Xavier (Cincinnati, OH) 27, St. Ignatius (Cleveland, OH) 12

like I said and have been saying, ST X really UNDERPERFORMED that game

[concha]

like I said and have been saying, ST X really UNDERPERFORMED that game

Hey, you may be right.

Calpreps has 8-3 in Ohio St. Ignatius ranked higher than all but 7 teams in California. I doubt there are that many, but I'll throw you a bone.

[consumerman]

Hey, you may be right.

Calpreps has 8-3 in Ohio St. Ignatius ranked higher than all but 7 teams in California. I doubt there are that many, but I'll throw you a bone.

is LB Poly one?

a team that beat a team that beat ST Ig

[concha]

yep.

[RXlandfill]

St. Xavier (Cincinnati, OH) 27, St. Ignatius (Cleveland, OH) 12

didnt X lose their QB that game?

[sirboxxer]

didnt X lose their QB that game?

They lost him the game before, against St. Edward in the first quarter of a 45-0 victory. Iggy was the next game and Luke Massa's first start.

[DLSfanNW]

Hot off the presses...

HIGH SCHOOL REPORT
Mission Viejo to forfeit two games for ineligible player
template_bas
template_bas
'Something slipped through the cracks,' Diablos football Coach Bob Johnson says in response to Southern Section office ruling.
From Times Staff Reports
November 15, 2007


Mission Viejo, which is experiencing its least successful season this decade, was thrown for another loss Wednesday when it was announced by the Southern Section office that the Diablos would forfeit their first two football games of the season for using an ineligible player.

Mission Viejo will forfeit its 26-22 victory over host Cincinnati (Ohio) Moeller on Sept. 1 and a 34-14 victory over Redondo the next weekend.



Bob Johnson
click to enlarge


The player was not a starter.

"I play the kids I'm told to play that are legal," Diablos Coach Bob Johnson said. "Something slipped through the cracks."

Mission Viejo, which failed to win the South Coast League title this season after winning seven in a row, and lost a league game for the first time in 39 games -- a span dating to 1999 -- has a revised overall record of 4-5-1. Redondo is now 7-3 and Moeller is 8-3.

The forfeits do not affect Mission Viejo's playoff status because they did not affect the team's league standing. By tying for second place behind Rancho Santa Margarita Tesoro, the Diablos received one of three automatic qualifying berths from the league. Mission Viejo plays Orange Lutheran in a Pac-5 Division first-round game Friday at Santa Ana Stadium.

-- Martin Henderson

[skyway28]

Getting back to the original topic...Anybody think 38-12 is a fairly accurate projection of how X would beat Northwestern? Any St. X die-hards even give credence to this?

[BobcatBomber]

Getting back to the original topic...Anybody think 38-12 is a fairly accurate projection of how X would beat Northwestern? Any St. X die-hards even give credence to this?

I think we'll be able to anwer this question better after tomorrow night. If St. X can handle Colerain's athletes, then maybe we can give greater weight to this "prediction". :dang:

[skyway28]

I think we'll be able to anwer this question better after tomorrow night. If St. X can handle Colerain's athletes, then maybe we can give greater weight to this "prediction". :dang:

No, I don't think what happens against Colerain tells us much of anything about how X would fare against MNW. Just having a decent amount of black guys on the team is no way to justify saying Colerain is close to equal to MNW. Colerain does not have the talent MWN does. Most significantly, with a backup QB, they have nowhere near the style of offense MNW does. MNW will spread the feild and throw the ball with a 4-star QB. Colerain is going to run, run, run with a backup QB throwing rarely. Totally different deal. I believe X played a team that spread the field and threw a lot with a solid QB earlier this year. How did the D fair that game?

[BobcatBomber]

They struggled the first half, but made adjustments that basically shut them down the second half. That's been a strength of X's all season.

And I wasn't referring to "black guys" = MNW athletically...I was saying that if X can beat Colerain, then the discussion can continue. Should X lose, well, there's no reason to debate the subject.

[skyway28]

That's fine. And I didn't mean to seem overly contentious. My only point is Colerain and MNW are two totally different teams with really no common link to compare the two.

[BobcatBomber]

That's fine. And I didn't mean to seem overly contentious. My only point is Colerain and MNW are two totally different teams with really no common link to compare the two.

From the limited info I have on MNW (seen and heard), yes, they are very different teams.

Like you said, the closest thing we have to compare with is the Louisville Trinity game earlier this season.

[consumerman]

based on (sorry) St X 2006 loss to Lakeland, who most agree is an inferior team to 2007 MNW and the fact that St X has a problem at QB due to injuries, I believe the game could be very competitive, with St X possibly winning with the breaks going their way (and I am not talking about those cryababy radio announcers who complained FOUR times in the first quarter alone about the officiating vs, Elder) however there seems little to suggest St X would win by more than 3-9, more to suggest MNW would win by 3-9 and NOTHING to remotely suggest ST X would win 38-12

[BobcatBomber]

based on (sorry) St X 2006 loss to Lakeland, who most agree is an inferior team to 2007 MNW and the fact that St X has a problem at QB due to injuries, I believe the game could be very competitive, with St X possibly winning with the breaks going their way (and I am not talking about those cryababy radio announcers who complained FOUR times in the first quarter alone about the officiating vs, Elder) however there seems little to suggest St X would win by more than 3-9, more to suggest MNW would win by 3-9 and NOTHING to remotely suggest ST X would win 38-12

Agree completely. A single-digit win from either squad I would accept, but to say either team could win by that margin seems foolish to me. If anything, I'd say the team with the most potential for that MOV would be MNW because their spread offense matches favorably with one of the few weaknesses of this St. X defense.

[D-Swizzel102]

I'm a St. X guy, and I believe a match-up between X and MNW would resemble the Lakeland game from last season very greatly.

[RidgePride]

I'm a St. X guy, and I believe a match-up between X and MNW would resemble the Lakeland game from last season very greatly.

I seriously doubt it. MNW is not one dimensional as Lakeland is. I know SLC handles all one dimensional teams with relative ease.

MNW ability to mix it up would give ST. X fits too. I personally think ST. X loses the game by a 10-14 point margin with a healthy QB.

[concha]

based on (sorry) St X 2006 loss to Lakeland, who most agree is an inferior team to 2007 MNW and the fact that St X has a problem at QB due to injuries, I believe the game could be very competitive, with St X possibly winning with the breaks going their way (and I am not talking about those cryababy radio announcers who complained FOUR times in the first quarter alone about the officiating vs, Elder) however there seems little to suggest St X would win by more than 3-9, more to suggest MNW would win by 3-9 and NOTHING to remotely suggest ST X would win 38-12

1) Letting homer radio announcers get to you this badly is silly. Let it go. Heck, maybe they had cause to comment!

2) X's new QB seems to be settling in nicely. He's completed nearly 70% of his passes and had 7 TDs to just one INT. His pass rating is 183.5. I'd like the seasoned senior back, but this kid isn't exactly crippling the offense.

3) Since the Trinity game, X has made adjustments to for better pass defense. FYI, they pounded Trinity 37-14 in the 2nd half.

[concha]

If X and MNW played prior to X addressing its pass defense issues (which means without star RB Ashley also), I would say MNW is a clear favorite.

Now? One heckuva game. In fact, given that X's star players are now seniors, I'd say the talent and experience gap that X faced versus Lakeland would be REDUCED versus MNW.

[skyway28]

I seriously doubt it. MNW is not one dimensional as Lakeland is. I know SLC handles all one dimensional teams with relative ease.

MNW ability to mix it up would give ST. X fits too. I personally think ST. X loses the game by a 10-14 point margin with a healthy QB.


Oh lord. Lakeland WAS one dimensional last year, not as a rule. Are you suggesting SLC would have handled Lakeland with relative ease? LOL.


It is true that MNW matches up better with X then Lakeland did. Because of the different style of offense as compared to 2006 Lakeland, MNW would likely fare better than Lakeland did. MNW is faster than that Lakeland team though not as precise execution or coaching wise.

[D-Swizzel102]

I seriously doubt it. MNW is not one dimensional as Lakeland is. I know SLC handles all one dimensional teams with relative ease.

MNW ability to mix it up would give ST. X fits too. I personally think ST. X loses the game by a 10-14 point margin with a healthy QB.

I should have clarified. I didn't mean in the way the game was played. MNW's offense is completely different than Lakeland's. I was saying that it would be evident that MNW clearly had better athletes on the field, but X would hang around playing good, disciplined football, and I truly think it would come down to the wire, say, 8 out of 10 times.

[consumerman]

1) Letting homer radio announcers get to you this badly is silly. Let it go. Heck, maybe they had cause to comment! NO!!! It wa crybaby city AND ST X WAS WINNING!!


2) X's new QB seems to be settling in nicely. He's completed nearly 70% of his passes and had 7 TDs to just one INT. His pass rating is 183.5. I'd like the seasoned senior back, but this kid isn't exactly crippling the offense. Gee first we hear how the ST X soph QB was the reason St X barely beat St Ugly in 3 overtimes, now he is Tom Brady. Same ol COncha


3) Since the Trinity game, X has made adjustments to for better pass defense. FYI, they pounded Trinity 37-14 in the 2nd half.

Yes but DLS gave up 14 points in the first halves in 9 GAMES TOTAL
St X gave up that much in about 5 minutes of 1 quarter

[DLSfanNW]

Just for the sake of conversation I ran these projections. I frankly do not see St X scoring 31 on DLS nor do I see DLS scoring 40 on MNW.

The other one seems about right.

PROJECT A MATCHUP


neutral field
[2007] St. Xavier (Cincinnati, OH) 31, [2007] De La Salle (Concord, CA) 21

PROJECT A MATCHUP


neutral field
[2007] De La Salle (Concord, CA) 40, [2007] Northwestern (Miami, FL) 22



PROJECT A MATCHUP


neutral field
[2007] De La Salle (Concord, CA) 38, [2007] Carroll (Southlake, TX) 28

[concha]

Yes but DLS gave up 14 points in the first halves in 9 GAMES TOTAL
St X gave up that much in about 5 minutes of 1 quarter

1) The announcers were at the game. Why the obsession with calling them names? How is it possibly relevant or important anyway?

2) I guess I shouldn't be shocked by your lack of ability to see the difference between the following:

- The affect on a team of losing their senior leader at QB and having a sophomore start his first game against a very good team 4-5 hours away.
- Where that team and new QB might be several games down the road when the new QB has nearly 70 pass attempts and 5 wins under his belt.

3) DLS's opponents are barely over .500 for the year. X's have 2x the wins and fewer losses in total, and X has beaten them minus one of the top RB prospects in the nation or minus their senior QB in nearly every game. When your best opponent has three losses including two to teams with 11 losses and ties between them.. well, in the land of the blind....

[consumerman]

1) The announcers were at the game. Why the obsession with calling them names? How is it possibly relevant or important anyway?

2) I guess I shouldn't be shocked by your lack of ability to see the difference between the following:

- The affect on a team of losing their senior leader at QB and having a sophomore start his first game against a very good team 4-5 hours away.
- Where that team and new QB might be several games down the road when the new QB has nearly 70 pass attempts and 5 wins under his belt.

3) DLS's opponents are barely over .500 for the year. X's have 2x the wins and fewer losses in total, and X has beaten them minus one of the top RB prospects in the nation or minus their senior QB in nearly every game. When your best opponent has three losses including two to teams with 11 losses and ties between them.. well, in the land of the blind....

DLS oustcored their opponenets 279-14 in the first half. ANYONE with any reasoning ability would say outstanding performance

you just cant

I guess if they made it 400-0 (not that far off BTW) you would still come up with some lame reason that their schedule was not good enough and ST X can be given EVERY excuse in the book why it took them 3 overtimes to squeak by a 3 loss team that lost by 21 in a separate game

AGAIN I ask if you feel the 1972 Dolphins who went 14-0 in the regular season was not a good accomplishment becasue the best team they played was only 8-6

OH BTW Bob Griese the Dolphins LEADER was injured most of the regular season in 1972

if you cant see the parallels it would not surprise me

concha = stubborn

PS Serra BEAT 5 LEAGUE CHAMPS and besides DLS only losses were in their ultra competitive league that went 27-2-1 in non-league competition and losses were to national pwer dls, a 9-1 team by 7 and a tie with a 9-0-1 team 3-3 (REPEAT, REPEAT, REPEAT) we are not talking St Eds here that coulndt score if you gave them a first and goal on the 1, oh that St Eds team BEAT a GCL playoff team LMAO

[concha]

DLS oustcored their opponenets 279-14 in the first half. ANYONE with any reasoning ability would say outstanding performance

you just cant

I guess if they made it 400-0 (not that far off BTW) you would still come up with some lame reason that their schedule was not good enough and ST X can be given EVERY excuse in the book why it took them 3 overtimes to squeak by a 3 loss team that lost by 21 in a separate game

AGAIN I ask if you feel the 1972 Dolphins who went 14-0 in the regular season was not a good accomplishment becasue the best team they played was only 8-6

if you cant see the parallel it would not surprise me

concha = stubborn

It is outstanding. Given the different schedules, it is also apples and oranges.

X's average opponent has a winning percentage nearly 20% higher than DLS's opponents' average. Only one of X's opponents has a losing record.
Two-thirds of X's games have been against teams that have 2 or fewer losses apart from those to X. Tonight X plays a 12-0 national top 10.

You keep humping on a game that X played under very unfavorable circumstances versus a team like Ignatius, and won. Ignatius finished 8-3. They lost to teams with a combined 31-4 record (the teams that beat THEM are currently 30-3). Two of Iggy's losses went to the wire and all three of those teams are playing for titles this weekend in the two traditionally toughest regions in Ohio. But I'm unreasonable and stubborn?

[concha]

FYI on St. Edward:

They got rocked badly in 2 games.

They lost by one to a 9-2 team.

They lost by three to Moe. Moe only lost to MV in the final minutes of the game.

They lost by 5 to Ignatius, who lost in mostly close games to three regional finalists whose combined record is 31-4.


Serra lost to two teams that sport records of 4-4-2 and 5-4-1, which aren't too far off Eds' record, yet you bend over backwards trying to explain it away while Eds is fair game?

[consumerman]

AGAIN I ask if you feel the 1972 Dolphins who went 14-0 in the regular season was not a good accomplishment becasue the best team they played was only 8-6

OH BTW Bob Griese the Dolphins LEADER was injured most of the regular season in 1972

if you cant see the parallels it would not surprise me

waiting

[concha]

Wait all you want. I don't care. I've already basically answered the question.


BTW, I met Mercury Morris once. He let me check out one of his Super Bowl rings

[consumerman]

FYI on St. Edward:

They got rocked badly in 2 games.

They lost by one to a 9-2 team.

They lost by three to Moe. Moe only lost to MV in the final minutes of the game.

They lost by 5 to Ignatius, who lost in mostly close games to three regional finalists whose combined record is 31-4.


thanks for being an apologist for a team that scores 10 points a game

St Francis 2007

vs Oak Grove 9-1, won 31-15
vs. South City 3-7, won 21-10
vs. Los Gatos, 9-0-1, tied 3-3
vs. St Mary's 9-1, lost 20-13

league
vs Serra 7-3, won 13-10
vs Bellarmine 9-1, lost 21-16
vs Valley Christian, 7-2-1, lost 36-8
vs St Ignatius, 4-5-1, won 33-0
vs Riordan 6-3-1, tied 21-21
vs Mitty, 7-3 lost 24-18

three (of 4) non league games with opponents records 27-2-1, went 1-1-1
one non league game vs . 3-7 team, won 21-10
6 league games 40-16-3, went 2-3-1


meanwhile St francis went 2-1-1 out of league, beating CCS #1 (!!) open division playoff seed Oak Grove (9-0 in other games) 31-15. St Francis tied CCS open division #2 playoff seed Los Gatos 3-3. Los Gatos went 9-0 in its other games. St francis lost 20-13 to another 9-1 team.

I will put up st francis vs st eds any day of the week

and I will put serra up against elder and moeller any day of the week

that leaves bellarmine and valley christian, not to mention dls

[consumerman]

Wait all you want. I don't care. I've already basically answered the question.


BTW, I met Mercury Morris once. He let me check out one of his Super Bowl rings

so are you impressed by the 14-0 record or unimpressed that their best opponent was 8-6 or realize YOU LOSE THE ARGUMENT BY ANSWERING and that is why you are cs to answer

[concha]

thanks for being an apologist for a team that scores 10 points a game

St Francis 2007

vs Oak Grove 9-1, won 31-15
vs. South City 3-7, won 21-10
vs. Los Gatos, 9-0-1, tied 3-3
vs. St Mary's 9-1, lost 20-13

league
vs Serra 7-3, won 13-10
vs Bellarmine 9-1, lost 21-16
vs Valley Christian, 7-2-1, lost 36-8
vs St Ignatius, 4-5-1, won 33-0
vs Riordan 6-3-1, tied 21-21
vs Mitty, 7-3 lost 24-18

three (of 4) non league games with opponents records 27-2-1, went 1-1-1
one non league game vs . 3-7 team, won 21-10
6 league games 40-16-3, went 2-3-1


meanwhile St francis went 2-1-1 out of league, beating CCS #1 (!!) open division playoff seed Oak Grove (9-0 in other games) 31-15. St Francis tied CCS open division #2 playoff seed Los Gatos 3-3. Los Gatos went 9-0 in its other games. St francis lost 20-13 to another 9-1 team.

I will put up st francis vs st eds any day of the week

and I will put serra up against elder and moeller any day of the week

that leaves bellarmine and valley christian, not to mention dls


St. Francis' year doesn't look much different than Eds. Looks like Eds may have had a shot at beating Serra if they played this year. If St. Francine could do it, not to mention Riordan, then why the heck not.

[Chicago]

By the way, in his new book, Sal Paolantonio calls the '72 Dolphins the second most overrated Super Bowl champions in history, behind the 1985 Bears (discuss amongst yourselves).

http://www.amazon.com/Paolantonio-Report-Overrated-Underrated-Players/dp/1600780253/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195242069&sr=1-1

I think they were actually underdogs against the 11-3 Redskins (by three points, maybe), since the AFC was supposed to be terrible (Super Bowls III, IV, and V not withstanding). But they won 14-7, and now they're supposed to be the greatest team ever.

[consumerman]

St. Francis' year doesn't look much different than Eds. Looks like Eds may have had a shot at beating Serra if they played this year. If St. Francine could do it, not to mention Riordan, then why the heck not.

and what #1 rated section team did eds beat by 16?
and what #2 rated section team did eds tie 3-3

oh they beat that monster gcl power elder, lol 4 loss elder?

[consumerman]

By the way, in his new book, Sal Paolantonio calls the '72 Dolphins the most overrated Super Bowl champions in history, I believe.

http://www.amazon.com/Paolantonio-Report-Overrated-Underrated-Players/dp/1600780253/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195242069&sr=1-1

I think they were actually underdogs against the 11-3 Redskins (by three points, maybe), since the AFC was supposed to be terrible (Suoer Bowls III, IV, and V not withstanding). But they won 14-7, and now they're supposed to be the greatest team ever.

the 72 dolphins schedule prior to the season (71 records) included opening AT KC - (10-3-1), site of their memorable 71 playoff game, vs Vikings (11-3), year in year out NFC power and 2 division games against Colts (10-4) who battled them for the AFC championship in 71

who knew the Chiefs would go 8-6, the Colts 5-9 and the Vikes 7-7, THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE LIKE CONCHA who criticize schedules in hindsight

[concha]

so are you impressed by the 14-0 record or unimpressed that their best opponent was 8-6 or realize YOU LOSE THE ARGUMENT BY ANSWERING and that is why you are cs to answer

What argument and how do I lose?

DLS has performed impressively.

DLS's schedule does not compare to X's

What am I missing? Have you had another debate with me in your fantasy world that you're having trouble separating from reality again?

[skyway28]

Just for the sake of conversation I ran these projections. I frankly do not see St X scoring 31 on DLS nor do I see DLS scoring 40 on MNW.

The other one seems about right.

PROJECT A MATCHUP


neutral field
[2007] St. Xavier (Cincinnati, OH) 31, [2007] De La Salle (Concord, CA) 21

PROJECT A MATCHUP


neutral field
[2007] De La Salle (Concord, CA) 40, [2007] Northwestern (Miami, FL) 22



PROJECT A MATCHUP


neutral field
[2007] De La Salle (Concord, CA) 38, [2007] Carroll (Southlake, TX) 28


I may puke. What is the relevance of these predictions? Do you expect anybody with a brain to put stock into them? Chicago, please explain to this guy how I will "knock out 1500 words" explaining how ludicrous those things are.

[Chicago]

Vikings lost 16-14.

The '72 Dolphins played a terrible schedule, AND barely won a lot of those games.

That's not a good combination.

If you blow out a lot of teams while playing a bad schedule, that's different.

Look at Sagarin's college football ratings, by the way, and compare the Elo rankings (margin doesn't count) with the Predictor rankings (wins and losses don't count).

Some teams are wildly different.

The teams that are good Elo teams but poor Predictor teams eventually get beat (unless they are 2002 Ohio State). Teams that are the opposite are the ones that may be the best in the country, but have one or two losses that knock them out of contention.

If you blow out a bad schedule, it doesn't mean you're great, but there is no evidence you aren't (which is where Kansas is right now).

UncleBaldy: I am only using college examples to illustrate a point about high school football. Please do not send me to the college football board amongst the morons (Tree of Knowledge and Termite excepted).

[Chicago]

He said he did it for the sake of conversation.

You conversed.

[Jesse]

nI seriously doubt it. MNW is not one dimensional as Lakeland is. I know SLC handles all one dimensional teams with relative ease.

MNW ability to mix it up would give ST. X fits too. I personally think ST. X loses the game by a 10-14 point margin with a healthy QB.


If ST.X played MNW in Miami, I believe it would be ugly. All that BS about "completely undisciplined" and poor coaching should have been put to rest in Southlake a few months ago.In all this chest pounding about Cincy and other Ohio teams and how well they fare, has any top flight Ohio team ever loaded up a bunch of kids and trucked 500-2000 miles and visited other backyards? Get real people, had Colerain played Hoover( the 3rd best team in Bama) at Legion Field on a sultry Alabama evening most likely the Cards would have lost.Home field is usually an advantage in the NFL and the NCAA.On the HS level probably even more pronounced. Obviously Ohio has many strong programs but until you guys hit the road and dance in Florida, Texas, Cali, I'm not buying what you are trying to pawn off. Inevery one of these bragging rights games, the Ohio team is at home, or pretty close to home.Get on I-75 south and head on down to Warner Robins, Georgia and test your metal against Northside.After that come on down a bit further to the Concrete Palace and introduce yourself to Lowndes.Do some home and away with some Texas or Louisiana programs and lets see how your teams react to playing in different and unfriendly and unfamiliar environs. Leave your cocoon and put your prowness to test when other variables are in part of the equation.
And as an aside, "If you are Ohio State, you're GATOR BAIT!"

[Jesse]

I should have clarified. I didn't mean in the way the game was played. MNW's offense is completely different than Lakeland's. I was saying that it would be evident that MNW clearly had better athletes on the field, but X would hang around playing good, disciplined football, and I truly think it would come down to the wire, say, 8 out of 10 times.


Played in the friendly confines of Nippert it's probably a good game that MNW wins more often than not.Played in the Orange Bowl probably not such a good day for ST.X. Same with BTW.

[djtomr941]

There is absolutely NO WAY IN HECK that St. X puts any pressure on Jacory Harris with that Mammoth Offensive Line. If they blitz, MNW will burn them with the WR's. If they don't MNW picks them apart.

Oh, and MNW can run the ball too. Their O Line is huge.

As for Defense, they would shut down Darius Ashley. MNW matches up very favorably against St. X.

[BobcatBomber]

n


If ST.X played MNW in Miami, I believe it would be ugly. All that BS about "completely undisciplined" and poor coaching should have been put to rest in Southlake a few months ago.In all this chest pounding about Cincy and other Ohio teams and how well they fare, has any top flight Ohio team ever loaded up a bunch of kids and trucked 500-2000 miles and visited other backyards? Get real people, had Colerain played Hoover( the 3rd best team in Bama) at Legion Field on a sultry Alabama evening most likely the Cards would have lost.Home field is usually an advantage in the NFL and the NCAA.On the HS level probably even more pronounced. Obviously Ohio has many strong programs but until you guys hit the road and dance in Florida, Texas, Cali, I'm not buying what you are trying to pawn off. Inevery one of these bragging rights games, the Ohio team is at home, or pretty close to home.Get on I-75 south and head on down to Warner Robins, Georgia and test your metal against Northside.After that come on down a bit further to the Concrete Palace and introduce yourself to Lowndes.Do some home and away with some Texas or Louisiana programs and lets see how your teams react to playing in different and unfriendly and unfamiliar environs. Leave your cocoon and put your prowness to test when other variables are in part of the equation.
And as an aside, "If you are Ohio State, you're GATOR BAIT!"

OHSAA only permits one overnight stay for road trips. I'm sure that severely limits the distances teams can travel.

And for the most part, Ohio teams can travel within the state to get all the competition it needs.

[BobcatBomber]

There is absolutely NO WAY IN HECK that St. X puts any pressure on Jacory Harris with that Mammoth Offensive Line. If they blitz, MNW will burn them with the WR's. If they don't MNW picks them apart.

Oh, and MNW can run the ball too. Their O Line is huge.

As for Defense, they would shut down Darius Ashley. MNW matches up very favorably against St. X.

These are things that Colerain fans were saying before last night, too. And Ignatius fans, Glenville fans, etc. earlier this year. Same "reasoning", same results.

[steeler 01]

These are things that Colerain fans were saying before last night, too. And Ignatius fans, Glenville fans, etc. earlier this year. Same "reasoning", same results.

none of those teams are anywhere near MNW.

[BobcatBomber]

none of those teams are anywhere near MNW.

And that's what everyone said leading up to the Colerain game last night. "None of these teams are anywhere near Colerain".

:Ohno:


13-0

Bring it

[consumerman]

And that's what everyone said leading up to the Colerain game last night. "None of these teams are anywhere near Colerain".

:Ohno:


13-0

Bring it

tht was a GREAT win for St X no doubt

but is there any debate that Colerain is a 1-dimensional running offense that also plays great defense?

to beat an excellent defensive team like St X unless you can manhandle them with a power running game, you need a crisp balanced attack

no one thinks that is 2007 colerain

also wasnt colerain's QB injured? did he play?

[Jesse]

OHSAA only permits one overnight stay for road trips. I'm sure that severely limits the distances teams can travel.

And for the most part, Ohio teams can travel within the state to get all the competition it needs.


Sounds like secondary bovine by-product.Until you leave your nest and beat, or at least play other national programs on their turf, I'm believe the deck is stacked in these "invitionals".

Good comp in state is subjective.Apparently the powers that be are reluctant to seek out top flight compitition, unless it comes to you.Hiding behind a rule that could be changed if AD's and coaches wanted to put to a test their ability and tradition. The possibility of being exposed is most likely the reason your teams are reluctant to force a change.I should think that an organization in such a football proud state that is so proud of their teams and traditions would be chomping at the bit to go out and demonstrate to us unwashed that so called "superior" brand of ball.

[coletrain06]

tht was a GREAT win for St X no doubt

but is there any debate that Colerain is a 1-dimensional running offense that also plays great defense?

to beat an excellent defensive team like St X unless you can manhandle them with a power running game, you need a crisp balanced attack

no one thinks that is 2007 colerain

also wasnt colerain's QB injured? did he play?

It wasn't so much that we were 1 dimensional...

The real problem in this game, was falling behind 20-0 in the 2nd quarter. Colerain was forced way outside of its game too early on. We had to go the pass for most of the rest of the game. Throwing the ball as much as we did was way outside of our comfort zone. Especially with our backup QB who is much more of a runner than a passer.

When Colerain was running the ball, we were affective at it. Problem was that we were down by 20 and couldn't count on or use the time it would take to drive down the field and score 3 times by running the ball.

I think if we would've had a chance to really establish the ground game that the game would've been much better paced and a closer game.

Although Colerain was forced to pass; our backup Qb was throwing some very good balls, but a lot of passes were drops. (One that would've been a TD)

X was definitely the better team.

[Jesse]

These are things that Colerain fans were saying before last night, too. And Ignatius fans, Glenville fans, etc. earlier this year. Same "reasoning", same results.


Colerain, decent team with no offense.Hoover handled them up front for the most part.And did so with their worst team in 7 or 8 years.Iggy, don't make me laugh.Slow as an 8 day week and nowhere the level Kyle had them in the late 80's and most of the 90's.Glenville, do they have fans? Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in awhile.There are at least 4 teams in Florida who would hang half a 100 on those clowns. St.X is a darn good team and well coached.However there are some teams just as well coached with superior talent.

[Jesse]

none of those teams are anywhere near MNW.

touche'.You can always tell an Ohio football fan, you just can't tell them anything. Steeler, you nailed it square on the head.

[Jesse]

the 72 dolphins schedule prior to the season (71 records) included opening AT KC - (10-3-1), site of their memorable 71 playoff game, vs Vikings (11-3), year in year out NFC power and 2 division games against Colts (10-4) who battled them for the AFC championship in 71

who knew the Chiefs would go 8-6, the Colts 5-9 and the Vikes 7-7, THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE LIKE CONCHA who criticize schedules in hindsight

You and I know hindsight is always 20/20. Concha knows this as well.He peerless playing devils advocate.I really believe Concha is an attorney:)

[WoodyHayes]

They showed a few highlights of X and Colerain and Corso added MWN is number 1.

[BobcatBomber]

Sounds like secondary bovine by-product.Until you leave your nest and beat, or at least play other national programs on their turf, I'm believe the deck is stacked in these "invitionals".

Good comp in state is subjective.Apparently the powers that be are reluctant to seek out top flight compitition, unless it comes to you.Hiding behind a rule that could be changed if AD's and coaches wanted to put to a test their ability and tradition. The possibility of being exposed is most likely the reason your teams are reluctant to force a change.I should think that an organization in such a football proud state that is so proud of their teams and traditions would be chomping at the bit to go out and demonstrate to us unwashed that so called "superior" brand of ball.

And so is good out of state competition. Just because a team is out of state doesn't make them "better." DeMatha came to cincy and got it handed to them by St. X...but DeMatha "was a pretender" some say, even though they were nationally ranked at the time of the game.

Maybe if other states had as much talent as Ohio does in state they wouldn't need to travel out of state to find competition. :shrug: See how that works? I can make baseless claims too. Bottom line is this: X has run the table on what is arguably one of the toughest schedules in the country and is ranked right there with MNW. While I don't claim to know who would win, stating X would stand no chance is just silly.

[consumerman]

St X had an easy argument saying it can play with anyone in the country

no question about it

however that can apparently be said with several if not many other teams nationwide

congrats on a great season so far and two more rounds of playoffs

[concha]

the 72 dolphins schedule prior to the season (71 records) included opening AT KC - (10-3-1), site of their memorable 71 playoff game, vs Vikings (11-3), year in year out NFC power and 2 division games against Colts (10-4) who battled them for the AFC championship in 71

who knew the Chiefs would go 8-6, the Colts 5-9 and the Vikes 7-7, THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE LIKE CONCHA who criticize schedules in hindsight

Moron,

Who was criticizing a schedule in hindsight?

DLS either plays a tough schedule this year or they don't. They don't. They may have tried to schedule one, they may have not tried. Irrelevant. It isn't tough.

DLS's opponents this year have PLAYED one more game than X's opponents HAVE WON.

Get it through your dimwitted skull:

DLS's opponents barely breaking .500 is reality, not hindsight.

[concha]

n


If ST.X played MNW in Miami, I believe it would be ugly. All that BS about "completely undisciplined" and poor coaching should have been put to rest in Southlake a few months ago.In all this chest pounding about Cincy and other Ohio teams and how well they fare, has any top flight Ohio team ever loaded up a bunch of kids and trucked 500-2000 miles and visited other backyards? Get real people, had Colerain played Hoover( the 3rd best team in Bama) at Legion Field on a sultry Alabama evening most likely the Cards would have lost.Home field is usually an advantage in the NFL and the NCAA.On the HS level probably even more pronounced. Obviously Ohio has many strong programs but until you guys hit the road and dance in Florida, Texas, Cali, I'm not buying what you are trying to pawn off. Inevery one of these bragging rights games, the Ohio team is at home, or pretty close to home.Get on I-75 south and head on down to Warner Robins, Georgia and test your metal against Northside.After that come on down a bit further to the Concrete Palace and introduce yourself to Lowndes.Do some home and away with some Texas or Louisiana programs and lets see how your teams react to playing in different and unfriendly and unfamiliar environs. Leave your cocoon and put your prowness to test when other variables are in part of the equation.
And as an aside, "If you are Ohio State, you're GATOR BAIT!"

I saw Lowndes play a couple of years ago when they were ranked #1 or #2 in GA to start the season. They played GA power Parkview. Saw the game with a buddy of mine (DLS fan from California). We couldn't believe how bad it was.

[concha]

There is absolutely NO WAY IN HECK that St. X puts any pressure on Jacory Harris with that Mammoth Offensive Line. If they blitz, MNW will burn them with the WR's. If they don't MNW picks them apart.

Oh, and MNW can run the ball too. Their O Line is huge.

As for Defense, they would shut down Darius Ashley. MNW matches up very favorably against St. X.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Lakeland was supposed to roll X. Run rings around them. Ask the Lakeland players of their opinion of Ohio ball.

BTW, do you think X never plays teams with big o-lines? Glenville averages well over 300 pounds across the line. DeMatha was big also. The GCL and Colerain usually average at least 270-280 if not more.

[concha]

St X had an easy argument saying it can play with anyone in the country

no question about it

however that can apparently be said with several if not many other teams nationwide

congrats on a great season so far and two more rounds of playoffs

X's opponents this year are 107-42.

MNW's are 54-59.

Nobody doubts that MNW is really good, but throwing crap at X after having to show up and beat teams that typically had just one or two losses in a normal week is asinine.

MNW and DLS haven't had to show up every week versus anything remotely like what X has. And X has done it without one of the nation's top RB prospects for several games and minus the starting senior QB for several others.

X has walked the walk.

Others are just talking the talk.

[consumerman]

X's opponents this year are 107-42.

MNW's are 54-59.

Nobody doubts that MNW is really good, but throwing crap at X after having to show up and beat teams that typically had just one or two losses in a normal week is asinine.

MNW and DLS haven't had to show up every week versus anything remotely like what X has. And X has done it without one of the nation's top RB prospects for several games and minus the starting senior QB for several others.

X has walked the walk.

Others are just talking the talk.



DLS has outscored its opponents 317-14 in the first half this year

that is just talk right concha-diction

[consumerman]

X's opponents this year are 107-42.

MNW's are 54-59.

Nobody doubts that MNW is really good, but throwing crap at X after having to show up and beat teams that typically had just one or two losses in a normal week is asinine.

MNW and DLS haven't had to show up every week versus anything remotely like what X has. And X has done it without one of the nation's top RB prospects for several games and minus the starting senior QB for several others.

X has walked the walk.

Others are just talking the talk.

how is saying stx is great this year and can play with anyone tranlate to "throwing crap" at them

you CANT READ

you just want to argue even when the post gives you no reason

god what a tiresome blowhard you are

[consumerman]

i guess those 1-2 loss team are inclusive

EXCEPT

5 Loss St Eds
5 Loss LaSalle
4 loss Elder
4 loss Moeller
4 loss Elder again

how can anyone not see all these 1-2 loss teams

[consumerman]

Moron,

Who was criticizing a schedule in hindsight?

namecalling is the greatest debating skill you have mr contradiction I mean concha-diction

and the answer to your question is YOU

you even did it in your response post

are you that bi-polar?

[concha]

i guess those 1-2 loss team are inclusive

EXCEPT

5 Loss St Eds
5 Loss LaSalle
4 loss Elder
4 loss Moeller
4 loss Elder again

how can anyone not see all these 1-2 loss teams

13 games

Apart from X:

DeMatha 1 loss

Glenville 2 losses

Trinity 1 loss

Chatard 2 losses

Elder 2 losses (2x)

Iggy 2 losses

Centerville 2 losses

Colerain 0 losses


9 of 13 games


Apart from losses to X, X's opponents are 104-29. How about DLS's?

[concha]

Moron,

Who was criticizing a schedule in hindsight?

namecalling is the greatest debating skill you have mr contradiction I mean concha-diction

and the answer to your question is YOU

you even did it in your response post

are you that bi-polar?


Oh, for the love of Pete.


DLS has played a tough schedule this year:

A) Yes

B) No


The question isn't "Did they TRY to schedule tough or weak". That is IRRELEVANT. The 2007 schedule turned out tough or not so tough, which is it? Screw your silly hindsight whining. Tough. Not tough. Reality. What did it turn out to be?

[concha]

Moron,

Who was criticizing a schedule in hindsight?

namecalling is the greatest debating skill you have mr contradiction I mean concha-diction

and the answer to your question is YOU

you even did it in your response post

are you that bi-polar?

It is not name calling. It is called "an accurate description".

[consumerman]

who has performed better

has St X outscored their opponents 317-14 in the first half

REPEAT REPEAT REPEAT

DLS has performed better
St X has a more impressive schedule

who is to say who is better?

GO AWAY conch-diction

and you call me one more name and I will toast your ---

[consumerman]

which st x opponent was a team that beat 5 LEAGUE CHAMPIONS?

Did DLS crunch MV by 28, a team that BEAT one of your so-called GCL powers?

BTW, MV won 5 of 10 games in California but BEAT a GCL PlAYOFF WINNING TEAM THAT YOU PROP UP AS A ST X TOUGH OPPONENT

how does that tatse mr cherry picker?

go away mr argument troll

[WoodyHayes]

They are very good. I listened to the Colerain game and they kept saying a Colerain wide receiver was blowing past the X defenders. This could present some problems but X ball control may keep the fast receivers off the field if they played MNW. I would have no problem for either one of them to be number 1. Both are very good.

[consumerman]

Mr Concha-Diction

I thought you might have learned from your mistake on bashing DLS and california football teams on california chat boards all those years ago now that DLS and others have come to Ohio and beat 3 Ohio power teams

I will give you some advice

chill
calm down
take a pill
get some physical exercise, that actually helps people with mental issues
dont overreact
quit reacting like debating high school football challenges your manhood

accept the fact that others recognize ohio has great football
start recognizing that other states also have great football

quit the namecalling, if you are anywhere smart you will realize that hurts your credibility

try FOR ONCE accepting and recognizing another school or another state's accomplishments

dont always try to nitpick them (while cherry picking your own team and state)

dont overeact to this post, just print it out. take a few minutes, refelct on it, then maybe consider the advice

R E L A X BRO

its only a hs football chat board

[consumerman]

Actually, MV didn't beat Moeller, but hey good guess :shrug: !

last time I checked 26 points beat 22

Is it different where you live?

or are you gonna fall for that ineligble player who played 2 plays on special teams?

who won on the field?

[BobcatBomber]

last time I checked 26 points beat 22

Is it different where you live?

or are you gonna fall for that ineligble player who played 2 plays on special teams?

who won on the field?

Yeah, cheating is frowned up here. Is it different where you live?

[consumerman]

Yeah, cheating is frowned up here. Is it different where you live?

take it and run with it

a team that won 5 of 10 games in cali beat a gcl playoff winning team

then had to forfeit because of a technicality on pw

yeah he was an all american right?

moeller would have won right?

lmao

enjoy your forfeit win


PS I did enjoy the whining crybaby st x radio announcers who complained FOUR TIMES in the FIRST QUARTER about officiating IN A GAME THEY WERE LEADING

OMG

[consumerman]

Actually, MV didn't beat Moeller, but hey good guess :shrug: !

YES THEY DID

I didnt guess

nice try

[Fightingfor7crusader]

If Moeller played the way they did against X for the first 3 quarters, Mission Viejo would've has their ----- handed to them. Moeller showed that they were dominant after Mission Viejo got to quick scores. If Moeller's players and coaches played the way they did in the end of the first and the whole second quarters for the whole game then it woudln't have been a game. Even with Moeller's players giving up those two early scores Moe still could have won easily, but uber-conservative play calling in the second half cost them the game. I know it's "if", but I honestly believe Moe beats MV 9 out of 10 times and cleans their clocks 4 out of 10 times. This is one of the least talented Moeller teams in history, they won games on heart and determination not talent. Although it was a big down year for MV as well I still believe Moeller would have beaten them last year as well. Moeller defense had way more talent last year.
Moellers average size of dbs 2006 - 6'1" 180 2007 - 5'11" 175
Moellers average 40 of dbs 2006 - 4.6 2007 - 4.6
Moellers average size of lbs 2006 - 6' 205 2007 - 6' 190
Moellers average 40 of lbs 2006 - 4.7-4.8 2007 - 4.9
Moeller average size of dl 2006 - 6'3" 265 2007 - 6'2" 215
Moellers average size of dl 2006 - 4.8-4.9 2007 - 5.0-5.1

[consumerman]

If Moeller played the way they did against X for the first 3 quarters, Mission Viejo would've has their ----- handed to them. Moeller showed that they were dominant after Mission Viejo got to quick scores. If Moeller's players and coaches played the way they did in the end of the first and the whole second quarters for the whole game then it woudln't have been a game. Even with Moeller's players giving up those two early scores Moe still could have won easily, but uber-conservative play calling in the second half cost them the game. I know it's "if", but I honestly believe Moe beats MV 9 out of 10 times and cleans their clocks 4 out of 10 times. This is one of the least talented Moeller teams in history, they one games on heart and determination not talent.

MV won 5 of ten games in california

they have been as high as NATIONAL #2 rankings

these are not 30 years agi

this was as recently as 2004 and 2005

this MV team was the worst team since spongebob came to MV

yet THEY beat a GCL playoff team

you cant trhow out two TD in the first 5 minutes and say we outplayed you

that is like a pitcher who gave up two grand slams in the first inning and says after the first inning we outplayed you

the game is 4 q

mv did more in the 4 q than moeller did

any way you slice it

mv traveled 2000 miles, a huge advanatge for moeller

moeller had a chance to win
they didnt

get over it

[BobcatBomber]

take it and run with it

a team that won 5 of 10 games in cali beat a gcl playoff winning team

then had to forfeit because of a technicality on pw

yeah he was an all american right?

moeller would have won right?

lmao

enjoy your forfeit win


It's not my forfeit win. I have no affiliation with the Moeller program or school. Had MV followed the rules, yes, they would have won the game. But they didn't. Who's fault is that? Certainly not Moeller's. I don't enjoy the win. Just pointing out facts.

At the end of the day, where does the W and L rest for that game?

Guess what, Spirrow Agnew was President! ;)

[Jesse]

I saw Lowndes play a couple of years ago when they were ranked #1 or #2 in GA to start the season. They played GA power Parkview. Saw the game with a buddy of mine (DLS fan from California). We couldn't believe how bad it was.


In another post, several years ago you stated you saw Pukeview-Camden at the Kell kickoff classic"They were slow, and just kept running the ball nowhere".Could be you watched two teams talented enough to take each other out of their game plan and have to play defense. Take off the rose colored glasses counselor. I felt the same when seeing Iggy, Elder, and Princton,St Eds, Mentor and quite a few other Ohio, and PA teams.. I notice you avoid GAVSV.Old Rabid would love to discuss this with you as well.He's waiting to chew your ears off and spit them back in your face. Lowndes would love to host any so-called name program who wants to roll the dice.Other than ST.X, the Vikings would defeat any GCL team this year.

Pukeview played Lowndes in 2004 in the finals.Early onset of Alzheimers? And btw why are you living in Georgia? Couldn't make it back in the hometown?

[Jesse]

If Moeller played the way they did against X for the first 3 quarters, Mission Viejo would've has their ----- handed to them. Moeller showed that they were dominant after Mission Viejo got to quick scores. If Moeller's players and coaches played the way they did in the end of the first and the whole second quarters for the whole game then it woudln't have been a game. Even with Moeller's players giving up those two early scores Moe still could have won easily, but uber-conservative play calling in the second half cost them the game. I know it's "if", but I honestly believe Moe beats MV 9 out of 10 times and cleans their clocks 4 out of 10 times. This is one of the least talented Moeller teams in history, they won games on heart and determination not talent. Although it was a big down year for MV as well I still believe Moeller would have beaten them last year as well. Moeller defense had way more talent last year.
Moellers average size of dbs 2006 - 6'1" 180 2007 - 5'11" 175
Moellers average 40 of dbs 2006 - 4.6 2007 - 4.6
Moellers average size of lbs 2006 - 6' 205 2007 - 6' 190
Moellers average 40 of lbs 2006 - 4.7-4.8 2007 - 4.9
Moeller average size of dl 2006 - 6'3" 265 2007 - 6'2" 215
Moellers average size of dl 2006 - 4.8-4.9 2007 - 5.0-5.1

If is the largest two letter word in the English language. "If" frogs had hammers mounted on their tails, they wouldn't be afraid of snakes.

[Jesse]

And so is good out of state competition. Just because a team is out of state doesn't make them "better." DeMatha came to cincy and got it handed to them by St. X...but DeMatha "was a pretender" some say, even though they were nationally ranked at the time of the game.

Maybe if other states had as much talent as Ohio does in state they wouldn't need to travel out of state to find competition. :shrug: See how that works? I can make baseless claims too. Bottom line is this: X has run the table on what is arguably one of the toughest schedules in the country and is ranked right there with MNW. While I don't claim to know who would win, stating X would stand no chance is just silly.

Actually several other states do have as much or more talent than Ohio.I do see how it works.You invite teams to come in and play, catch them in your backyard with your officials.When you win it then goes "See we told you we are better".
When your teams lose to the invited gueast that has traveled from afar you boys then denigrate that same team that you were raving about beforehand.
'Oh it was a rebuilding year", "Why were they invited"? Always an excuse.Or series of them.So juvenile.

I do feel that St.X is a fine team and Specht an excellent coach. Rasso laid the foundation though and he has run with it.

Could X beat MNW? Of course they could.At Nippert or wherever(Lockland), yes it could happen. Way down in Gator country where we eat Buckeyes like candy, very unlikely.

[Jesse]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Lakeland was supposed to roll X. Run rings around them. Ask the Lakeland players of their opinion of Ohio ball.

BTW, do you think X never plays teams with big o-lines? Glenville averages well over 300 pounds across the line. DeMatha was big also. The GCL and Colerain usually average at least 270-280 if not more.


What, in hindsight is your myopic opine on how the game may have played out had X hit the road and visited Lakeland on their turf?

[consumerman]

Actually several other states do have as much or more talent than Ohio.I do see how it works.You invite teams to come in and play, catch them in your backyard with your officials.When you win it then goes "See we told you we are better".
When your teams lose to the invited gueast that has traveled from afar you boys then denigrate that same team that you were raving about beforehand.
'Oh it was a rebuilding year", "Why were they invited"? Always an excuse.Or series of them.So juvenile.
I do feel that St.X is a fine team and Specht an excellent coach. Rasso laid the foundation though and he has run with it.

Could X beat MNW? Of course they could.At Nippert or wherever(Lockland), yes it could happen. Way down in Gator country where we eat Buckeyes like candy, very unlikely.

Basically what I already said recently

[Jesse]

By the way, in his new book, Sal Paolantonio calls the '72 Dolphins the second most overrated Super Bowl champions in history, behind the 1985 Bears (discuss amongst yourselves).

http://www.amazon.com/Paolantonio-Report-Overrated-Underrated-Players/dp/1600780253/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1195242069&sr=1-1

I think they were actually underdogs against the 11-3 Redskins (by three points, maybe), since the AFC was supposed to be terrible (Super Bowls III, IV, and V not withstanding). But they won 14-7, and now they're supposed to be the greatest team ever.

Definately not the greatest team ever, but the greatest accomplishment in NFL history up to this point in time.

[consumerman]

Definately not the greatest team ever, but the greatest accomplishment in NFL history up to this point in time.

the 1972 Dolphins won 3 post season games by 6, 4 and 7 points or 17 points total

the 1989 49ers won 3 playoff games by 28, 27 and 45 points or 100 points total

[Jesse]

the 1972 Dolphins won 3 post season games by 6, 4 and 7 points or 17 points total

the 1989 49ers won 3 playoff games by 28, 27 and 45 points or 100 points total

Those SF teams from the Walsh era were something special. And fun to watch.Lets not forget however, that rules governing pass defense(bump rule) and allowing o-linemen to push off and essentially use their hands remains the primary reason the West coast offenses are so sucessfull.Sid Gillman who wrote the book on it says that without the rule changes of 79-80, football would still be far more favorable to the defenses.As great as Jerry Rice and John Taylor were, unlike Swann, Stallworth, Warefield, and others, he didn't have to deal with Jack Tatum, Thom Darden, George Atkinson, and those types when it was open season on recievers, at any time on any place on the field.

[consumerman]

Those SF teams from the Walsh era were something special. And fun to watch.Lets not forget however, that rules governing pass defense(bump rule) and allowing o-linemen to push off and essentially use their hands remains the primary reason the West coast offenses are so sucessfull.Sid Gillman who wrote the book on it says that without the rule changes of 79-80, football would still be far more favorable to the defenses.As great as Jerry Rice and John Taylor were, unlike Swann, Stallworth, Warefield, and others, he didn't have to deal with Jack Tatum, Thom Darden, George Atkinson, and those types when it was open season on recievers, at any time on any place on the field.

how fortunate were the 49ers to have arguably the greatest offensive coach and greatest master of the passing game come along right when the rule changes favoring offenses and passing come into effect

and the defenses weren't too shabby

1984 NFC title game SHUTOUT
1988 NFC title game 1 FG
1989 NFC title game 1 FG

and unlike some of those bears and steelers (for example) defenses, especially in the post season, they did not have cold, icy, windy home field advantages to help those defenses

funny its easy to excuse away more points with "rule changes" but conveniently leave out the same rules should have seen more points against the defense, the three games above hardly show that

[Jesse]

how fortunate were the 49ers to have arguably the greatest offensive coach and greatest master of the passing game come along right when the rule changes favoring offenses and passing come into effect

and the defenses weren't too shabby

1984 NFC title game SHUTOUT
1988 NFC title game 1 FG
1989 NFC title game 1 FG

and unlike some of those bears and steelers (for example) defenses, especially in the post season, they did not have cold, icy, windy home field advantages to help those defenses

funny its easy to excuse away more points with "rule changes" but conveniently leave out the same rules should have seen more points against the defense, the three games above hardly show that

SF and Walsh were the Mayflower for utilizing those changes to their advantage. Compare ppg, passing ypg, and total offense ppg across the league before and after.Gillman drew it up Walsh perfected it and others were a bit slow on the take.Dallas amongst others. I respect your accuman but don't downplay the effect of o-linemen no longer having to "grab their jersey #'s and recievers being able to prance around unmolested. Any yes SF did have great defense to compliment their spectacular offense. Fred Dean anyone.Ronnie Lott. Rikki Gray-Ellison. SF and Walsh were just quicker on the take.Thats why Walsh was the best in the business.An abstract mind and a brain capable of acknowledging the game had changed. The Niners put a lot of extra spending money in my wallet back in those days:)

[BobcatBomber]

Actually several other states do have as much or more talent than Ohio.I do see how it works.You invite teams to come in and play, catch them in your backyard with your officials.When you win it then goes "See we told you we are better".
When your teams lose to the invited gueast that has traveled from afar you boys then denigrate that same team that you were raving about beforehand.
'Oh it was a rebuilding year", "Why were they invited"? Always an excuse.Or series of them.So juvenile.

I do feel that St.X is a fine team and Specht an excellent coach. Rasso laid the foundation though and he has run with it.

Could X beat MNW? Of course they could.At Nippert or wherever(Lockland), yes it could happen. Way down in Gator country where we eat Buckeyes like candy, very unlikely.

Never once will you read a post of mine saying "so and so was in a down year" or any other BS. If you get beat, you get beat. You must be thinking of someone else when you're referring to this.


Regarding the issue of the outcome of the game depending on where they play, you hae your opinion, I've got mine. Of course, we both know what they say about opinions...
Bottom line is, both are outstanding teams that, should both win their respective state titles, whoever is awarded "national" champs is well deserving of the title.

[Jesse]

Never once will you read a post of mine saying "so and so was in a down year" or any other BS. If you get beat, you get beat. You must be thinking of someone else when you're referring to this.


Regarding the issue of the outcome of the game depending on where they play, you hae your opinion, I've got mine. Of course, we both know what they say about opinions...
Bottom line is, both are outstanding teams that, should both win their respective state titles, whoever is awarded "national" champs is well deserving of the title.


Agreed.:cool:

And I will exclude you from the excuse makers ( too many to name in one post).Scroll back to late Aug and follow through mid Sept.And I believe you'll pick up on what I have stated.You sir are removed from the crybaby list.:)

[Jesse]

Moron,

Who was criticizing a schedule in hindsight?

namecalling is the greatest debating skill you have mr contradiction I mean concha-diction

and the answer to your question is YOU

you even did it in your response post

are you that bi-polar?

He is out of Paxil, Prozac or whatever.

[UncleBaldy]

Actually several other states do have as much or more talent than Ohio.I do see how it works.You invite teams to come in and play, catch them in your backyard with your officials.When you win it then goes "See we told you we are better".


If other states would like to have something like the Herbstreit, I am pretty sure there would be a lot of Ohio teams willing to take up the challenge. Your comments also smack of accusations of bad officiating in favor of Ohio teams. I would remind you that there have been bad calls going both ways and some have been more harmful to the Ohio team than the out of state team.

One more thing, if the Herbstreit was an attempt to make Ohio teams look better than teams from other states, then the Herbstreit would be held in November, not August. Herbstreit, I believe, has said on several occasions that the purpose of the Challenge is to show that Ohio High School football is as good as other states, not to prove that it is better.

Do I believe that Ohio football is better? No
Do I believe it is just as good as other states, notably TX, CA, and FL? Yes

[consumerman]

If other states would like to have something like the Herbstreit, I am pretty sure there would be a lot of Ohio teams willing to take up the challenge. Your comments also smack of accusations of bad officiating in favor of Ohio teams. I would remind you that there have been bad calls going both ways and some have been more harmful to the Ohio team than the out of state team.

One more thing, if the Herbstreit was an attempt to make Ohio teams look better than teams from other states, then the Herbstreit would be held in November, not August. Herbstreit, I believe, has said on several occasions that the purpose of the Challenge is to show that Ohio High School football is as good as other states, not to prove that it is better.

Do I believe that Ohio football is better? No
Do I believe it is just as good as other states, notably TX, CA, and FL? Yes

no question Ohio is a great football state

[skyway28]

What, in hindsight is your myopic opine on how the game may have played out had X hit the road and visited Lakeland on their turf?

This is a question nobody seems to want to ask or answer. Except for the bologna about home field merely being worth 1.5 points or something stupid.

[fish82]

I think the point is that "home field advantage" was not even brought up during the weeks leading up to Lakeland/X. Lakeland was the defending national champs, and would roll X if they played "on the moon." Only after they barely escaped with their lives did the "home field" thing come up.

I always found that curious.

I'll say it before, and I'll say it again. If coming to Ohio is that big of a flippin deal, there are 2 options.

1. Don't come. Plenty of teams in line to come take a crack at us. No skin off our nose.

2. Put together a similar game or event in your own state, paying the way for all participating teams.

It's that simple.

[concha]

He is out of Paxil, Prozac or whatever.

Out of all of the above.



So, DLS's schedule this year....

Lets' review:

1) I have stated that DLS's performance this year has been very impressive. I ain't the fool to dispute it a second.

2) I have stated more than once that I don't accuse DLS of trying to "schedule soft".

3) DLS's opponents are 54-51-2 on the year (or 54-41-2 less losses to DLS). X's are 108-29 less losses to X.



Conclusions on my part:

1) Regarding "hindsight". Hindsight would relevant if I had accused DLS of purposefully scheduling soft after already knowing their results. I have not done that. Coach Lad is not shy of competition. My question is valid. DLS's schedule this year has ended up being tough or it has not. After a 10-game season, DLS's average opponent is a 50% or 60% win team (depending on inclusion of DLS games). My point was that DLS IS very good this year and a Frazier or two on the schedule would help their situation nationally amongst the elite programs in the polls.

2) X's average foe won 70% to 80% of their games this year (with and without X games). So, is it reasonable to compare game stats between X and DLS? Is it sensible to not account for X playing without at least one key player in most of their games (one of whom is considered one of the best in the country at his position)? I'd say when your pool of opponents has gone 108-29, X might deserve a little consideration.







Bottom line:

DLS has been damned impressive this season when many didn't expect one of their better years. It's too bad they didn't have a bigtime out-of-state game or better luck with their SS opponent since MV has had an off year.

For X, "only a fool" would discount the overall quality of their schedule this year. And to be undefeated without Ashley for several games and despite losing the senior QB - that's a gritty performance. Beating a 12-0 nationally-ranked Colerain team that was putting up 40 ppg (no offense?) isn't too bad either.

Look, I am perfectly happy dropping the pizzing match. MV-Moe is meaningless. MV played an ineligible. BFD. Moe is a better team than they often show [FYI their coach has been asked to resign]. Yes, X probably should have handled Iggy better, but they also pulled out a win under several difficult circumstances to one of the better programs in Ohio. These are things that are easy to take cheap shts at, as is Serra losing to St. Francis and Riordan.




Now, Would MNW beat X? Possible. Who knows. Let's just say that I can't find much regard for folks who say things like "X couldn't MNW's line", "X would get torched by MNW's DBs" and "X couldn't handle Jacory Harris" etc etc etc. Consider:

1) X played opponents so far this year who are a combined 108-29 apart from losses to X. I know of no other team in the nation whose opponents approach this level of success. FYI, MNW's foes are 54-48.

2) In 11 of 13 games in this schedule, X sent their opponent home with their worst loss of the year. It would be 12 of 13 but X took a knee versus Moe near the goal line. The other game was versus Iggy and was played under difficult circumstances which have been discussed.

3) X has faced two teams ranked in the top ten this year (at least at game time) and beat each in strong fashion.

4) X destroyed Elder, who ended Indy's streak. X also beat Colerain, who beat Hoover. Hoover is undefeated on the field apart from Colerain. I know that there may be "buts" attached to Indy and Hoover this year, but in their home states they have one loss on the field between them, ans that by just one point. Respectable.

5) X did all this without highly touted Darius Ashley for four games (and playing gimpy for at least a couple more). They lost their starting QB late in the season.


I would submit that writing off X versus any high school team anywhere is silly given what they've done this year.

[skyway28]

I think the point is that "home field advantage" was not even brought up during the weeks leading up to Lakeland/X. Lakeland was the defending national champs, and would roll X if they played "on the moon." Only after they barely escaped with their lives did the "home field" thing come up.

I always found that curious.

I'll say it before, and I'll say it again. If coming to Ohio is that big of a flippin deal, there are 2 options.

1. Don't come. Plenty of teams in line to come take a crack at us. No skin off our nose.

2. Put together a similar game or event in your own state, paying the way for all participating teams.

It's that simple.

Huh? It was mentioned repeatedly by many, including yours truly. Are you going to suggest that since you don't personally recall anybody mentioning home-field advantage before the game..X didn't have an advantage? Lol

Nobody said Lakeland or any of the other non-Ohio teams at the Herbie at any sort of problem with going. All that has been said and is fact is that the Ohio teams do, in fact, have a home-field advantage. Especially the Cincy area teams playing at Nippert. When looking at the results of the games, you must consider the home-field advantage the Ohio teams had. That's all.

[concha]

Actually several other states do have as much or more talent than Ohio.I do see how it works.You invite teams to come in and play, catch them in your backyard with your officials.When you win it then goes "See we told you we are better".
When your teams lose to the invited gueast that has traveled from afar you boys then denigrate that same team that you were raving about beforehand.
'Oh it was a rebuilding year", "Why were they invited"? Always an excuse.Or series of them.So juvenile.

I do feel that St.X is a fine team and Specht an excellent coach. Rasso laid the foundation though and he has run with it.

Could X beat MNW? Of course they could.At Nippert or wherever(Lockland), yes it could happen. Way down in Gator country where we eat Buckeyes like candy, very unlikely.

I think there is alot of mental creativity involved in the above.


Ex.
X lost to Lakeland, and they were expected to - especially by Florida posters. Two very good teams. X was at home. Lakeland had more experience and more blue-chips. Great game. Could have gone either way. Nobody begrudged Lakeland the win. Lakeland left impressed.

Elder lost to DLS. Then again, Elder got their clocks cleaned a few other games too. Unfortunate pairing. Elder got spanked. DLS was denied a statement win versus one of Ohio's best that year. DLS impressed Ohio fans as they should have.

Moe wasn't ranked at all versus a highly ranked byrnes team and was expected to lose badly. They nearly pulled out a win. Truth.

MV beat Moe in another close one. Neither has had a season to write home about. It may be good for Moe in the long term, as they are losing a head coach who has been criticized for years now.

Poly beat Glenville in a closely contested game. Good for Poly. A quality win. Glenville has serious talent that has been hamstrung this year by poor coaching decisions, turnovers and one of the worst kicking games in the solar system. Fact is, Glenville has the kids to have beaten Poly, X and Mentor this year, but a combination of the three factors I mentioned blew it each time. What a waste. No excuses for G'ville. If anything, criticism.



I guess I'm just not quite sure where this posturing by Ohioans has been. Nobody has claimed "We wuz robbed". When Ohio teams went into play teams that were higher ranked nationally (Ex. Lakeland, Indy, Byrnes, DLS games), that wasn't Ohio polls making the call.

Though Ohio does get a "home" advantage to varying degrees in the Herbie games, they are also bringing in select top teams from the rest of the entire nation. The #1s or #2s from NJ, PA, AL, FL, CA (? - top programs anyway), NC, SC...others?... have come and Ohio hasn't done too badly considering. I can't think of a major upset of an Ohio team and the field of opponents has been pretty impressive.

That said, results are far from showing Ohio to be THE football in the nation, though they do indicate that Ohio can play some damned good ball against damned good teams from around the nation.

[fish82]

Huh? It was mentioned repeatedly by many, including yours truly. Are you going to suggest that since you don't personally recall anybody mentioning home-field advantage before the game..X didn't have an advantage? Lol

Post game? Yes. Pre-game? We'll have to agree to disagree there.

Nobody said Lakeland or any of the other non-Ohio teams at the Herbie at any sort of problem with going. All that has been said and is fact is that the Ohio teams do, in fact, have a home-field advantage. Especially the Cincy area teams playing at Nippert. When looking at the results of the games, you must consider the home-field advantage the Ohio teams had. That's all.

I never said I disputed that. However, on any given Friday night, 20,000 other HS teams have a home field advantage. It's rare that I ever see someone say that "must be considered" when evaluating the win.

Each year teams in Texas travel father than some Herbie teams to play in their own state. I have yet to read any of the losers say, "yea, but we had to fly/drive across the state and stay in a hotel for 2 nights."

I may be in the minority, but it just reeks "excuse" to me.

[concha]

Huh? It was mentioned repeatedly by many, including yours truly. Are you going to suggest that since you don't personally recall anybody mentioning home-field advantage before the game..X didn't have an advantage? Lol

Nobody said Lakeland or any of the other non-Ohio teams at the Herbie at any sort of problem with going. All that has been said and is fact is that the Ohio teams do, in fact, have a home-field advantage. Especially the Cincy area teams playing at Nippert. When looking at the results of the games, you must consider the home-field advantage the Ohio teams had. That's all.

The point is that, in general, Florida posters simply expected Lakeland to run rings around X. They knew where the game was being played, but their expectation was still clear. The same happened with Texas fans when Colerain beat REL. Big win by Texas team expected, homefield advantage talk dragged out after the result was far from exectations.

So, yes, of course playing in Ohio is an advantage. How much of an advantage? Who could possibly know? Then again, bringing in top teams from a choice of 49 states to face a group of Ohio teams that is at best a mix of the best and let's just say "others" should be considered in the Away guys favor, no?

[skyway28]

Post game? Yes. Pre-game? We'll have to agree to disagree there.



I never said I disputed that. However, on any given Friday night, 20,000 other HS teams have a home field advantage. It's rare that I ever see someone say that "must be considered" when evaluating the win.

Each year teams in Texas travel father than some Herbie teams to play in their own state. I have yet to read any of the losers say, "yea, but we had to fly/drive across the state and stay in a hotel for 2 nights."

I may be in the minority, but it just reeks "excuse" to me.

1) To some degree, home-field advantage should be considered in all games where it existed

2) A team traveling 20 miles to play in front of 2,000 fans for the other team is not exactly the same thing as traveling 2,000 miles to play in front of 20,000 fans. And, when something big like state pride is on the line, everything is magnified over your regular prep game.

3) In Texas and Ohio, to a large degree, playoff games are played in cavernous, neutral site facilities. The stadium may be closer to one school than another, but its nothing like a home game. Nobody had a home-field advantage last year when SLC played Trinity or when X played Colerain.

[skyway28]

The point is that, in general, Florida posters simply expected Lakeland to run rings around X. They knew where the game was being played, but their expectation was still clear. The same happened with Texas fans when Colerain beat REL. Big win by Texas team expected, homefield advantage talk dragged out after the result was far from exectations.

So, yes, of course playing in Ohio is an advantage. How much of an advantage? Who could possibly know? Then again, bringing in top teams from a choice of 49 states to face a group of Ohio teams that is at best a mix of the best and let's just say "others" should be considered in the Away guys favor, no?

There are always going to be loud-mouthed, ignorant posters claiming there teams/states would destroy anybody.

No doubt Ohio, thanks to Kirk Herbstreit and some decent sponsorship deals making travel possible, has challenged itself in a big way by playing many of the top teams in the country. That the state's record againt such elite competition is poor is, in fact, not bad at all considering who's playing who.

[concha]

There are always going to be loud-mouthed, ignorant posters claiming there teams/states would destroy anybody.

No doubt Ohio, thanks to Kirk Herbstreit and some decent sponsorship deals making travel possible, has challenged itself in a big way by playing many of the top teams in the country. That the state's record againt such elite competition is poor is, in fact, not bad at all considering who's playing who.

1) As regards fans, that is true. That said, Lakeland was a clear favorite in most people's opinions. I recall seeing a quote ot two from Lakeland players commenting how they expected to be much faster than X but were surprised by X's game speed.

2) The only game I can think of that could be regarded as an upset versus Ohio might be the Moe-MV game, though I think based on the prior year and early season expectations, MV probably came in even even odds at worst. I think Colerain didn't win as clearly as expected this year. Elder exceeded expectations. X did well. Glenville/Poly? Lord, who knows with Glenville? All that talent and speed but poor coaching, too many turnovers and an inexcusable kicking game. I'd say Moe exceeded expectations versus Byrnes. Elder didn't belong anywhere near DLS or about 3 other opponents they faced in 2006. Bosco beat a decent Centerville team with some key injuries... not much to take away from that one. Mooney beat Gateway, who is a PA big school title contender it appears.... I think the overall stroy is that Ohio has held its own. No big, meaningfull losses and no big, meaningfull wins overall.

[concha]

In another post, several years ago you stated you saw Pukeview-Camden at the Kell kickoff classic"They were slow, and just kept running the ball nowhere".Could be you watched two teams talented enough to take each other out of their game plan and have to play defense. Take off the rose colored glasses counselor. I felt the same when seeing Iggy, Elder, and Princton,St Eds, Mentor and quite a few other Ohio, and PA teams.. I notice you avoid GAVSV.Old Rabid would love to discuss this with you as well.He's waiting to chew your ears off and spit them back in your face. Lowndes would love to host any so-called name program who wants to roll the dice.Other than ST.X, the Vikings would defeat any GCL team this year.

Pukeview played Lowndes in 2004 in the finals.Early onset of Alzheimers? And btw why are you living in Georgia? Couldn't make it back in the hometown?

1) The DLS guy I went to the game with had an even lower opinion than I. It's not like we had any motive to dog Georgia ball. Honest impressions from two guys from two different states with no dog in the fight. Snipe away.

2) What is GAVSV so I know what I'm avoiding so strenuously.

3) Old Rabid. Is that a dog?

4) That is nice of Lowndes. Who have they invited?

5) Maybe Lowndes would do well versus the rest of the GCL. They have a loss already and it wasn't exactly Northside they were playing.

6) You need to mix in a "yo mamma" joke every now and then. That's all That's keeping you from true comic genius.

[Chicago]

"Early onset of Alzheimer's?"

How does he know how old you are?

[concha]

"Early onset of Alzheimer's?"

How does he know how old you are?

His mental powers are beyond the comprehension of mere mortals. Even if I did know at one time, apparently I can't remember....

[skyway28]

"1) The DLS guy I went to the game with had an even lower opinion than I. It's not like we had any motive to dog Georgia ball. Honest impressions from two guys from two different states with no dog in the fight. Snipe away."

That's not true. You both wanted your respective home states to be superior to the other states, Georgia included. You went into the game expecting and subconsciously hoping to see inferior football. People can fit what they see into the altered form of reality they want to see. And some people are just biased against run-oriented defensive football games. Which is an ineffective way to really judge the quality of teams.

[concha]

"1) The DLS guy I went to the game with had an even lower opinion than I. It's not like we had any motive to dog Georgia ball. Honest impressions from two guys from two different states with no dog in the fight. Snipe away."

That's not true. You both wanted your respective home states to be superior to the other states, Georgia included. You went into the game expecting and subconsciously hoping to see inferior football. People can fit what they see into the altered form of reality they want to see. And some people are just biased against run-oriented defensive football games. Which is an ineffective way to really judge the quality of teams.


My impressions went beyond any tainting due to homerism. Perhaps it was just that game. Starting the season, jitters, who knows. It was not a good display. One of the things I clearly recall was the lack of adjustments. "If at first you don't succeed, try and try again" was a theme. I left surprised and disappointed.

As regards bias against run-oriented, defensively strong teams, I'm from Ohio for crying out loud. And DLS runs a little too wouldn't you say?

[Chicago]

I just went to 7-11.

I walked right past the root beer and got a Mountain Dew.

Now, I like both, mind you, but I usually like root beer better.

I didn't really think about it. It just seemed like something I wanted to do.

Do you know why I did it, and if so, could you let me know? I've been wondering, and you seem like you could help (there may have been something subconscious going on).

[concha]

I just went to 7-11.

I walked right past the root beer and got a Mountain Dew.

Now, I like both, mind you, but I usually like root beer better.

I didn't really think about it. It just seemed like something I wanted to do.

Do you know why I did it, and if so, could you let me know? I've been wondering, and you seem like you could help (there may have been something subconscious going on).

I think I can help you. I'm a psychologist. I mean psychiatrist. Wait. No I'm not. Or am I? Crap. I can't remember. What was the question?

[Jesse]

Out of all of the above.



So, DLS's schedule this year....

Lets' review:

1) I have stated that DLS's performance this year has been very impressive. I ain't the fool to dispute it a second.

2) I have stated more than once that I don't accuse DLS of trying to "schedule soft".

3) DLS's opponents are 54-51-2 on the year (or 54-41-2 less losses to DLS). X's are 108-29 less losses to X.



Conclusions on my part:

1) Regarding "hindsight". Hindsight would relevant if I had accused DLS of purposefully scheduling soft after already knowing their results. I have not done that. Coach Lad is not shy of competition. My question is valid. DLS's schedule this year has ended up being tough or it has not. After a 10-game season, DLS's average opponent is a 50% or 60% win team (depending on inclusion of DLS games). My point was that DLS IS very good this year and a Frazier or two on the schedule would help their situation nationally amongst the elite programs in the polls.

2) X's average foe won 70% to 80% of their games this year (with and without X games). So, is it reasonable to compare game stats between X and DLS? Is it sensible to not account for X playing without at least one key player in most of their games (one of whom is considered one of the best in the country at his position)? I'd say when your pool of opponents has gone 108-29, X might deserve a little consideration.







Bottom line:

DLS has been damned impressive this season when many didn't expect one of their better years. It's too bad they didn't have a bigtime out-of-state game or better luck with their SS opponent since MV has had an off year.

For X, "only a fool" would discount the overall quality of their schedule this year. And to be undefeated without Ashley for several games and despite losing the senior QB - that's a gritty performance. Beating a 12-0 nationally-ranked Colerain team that was putting up 40 ppg (no offense?) isn't too bad either.

Look, I am perfectly happy dropping the pizzing match. MV-Moe is meaningless. MV played an ineligible. BFD. Moe is a better team than they often show [FYI their coach has been asked to resign]. Yes, X probably should have handled Iggy better, but they also pulled out a win under several difficult circumstances to one of the better programs in Ohio. These are things that are easy to take cheap shts at, as is Serra losing to St. Francis and Riordan.




Now, Would MNW beat X? Possible. Who knows. Let's just say that I can't find much regard for folks who say things like "X couldn't MNW's line", "X would get torched by MNW's DBs" and "X couldn't handle Jacory Harris" etc etc etc. Consider:

1) X played opponents so far this year who are a combined 108-29 apart from losses to X. I know of no other team in the nation whose opponents approach this level of success. FYI, MNW's foes are 54-48.

2) In 11 of 13 games in this schedule, X sent their opponent home with their worst loss of the year. It would be 12 of 13 but X took a knee versus Moe near the goal line. The other game was versus Iggy and was played under difficult circumstances which have been discussed.

3) X has faced two teams ranked in the top ten this year (at least at game time) and beat each in strong fashion.

4) X destroyed Elder, who ended Indy's streak. X also beat Colerain, who beat Hoover. Hoover is undefeated on the field apart from Colerain. I know that there may be "buts" attached to Indy and Hoover this year, but in their home states they have one loss on the field between them, ans that by just one point. Respectable.

5) X did all this without highly touted Darius Ashley for four games (and playing gimpy for at least a couple more). They lost their starting QB late in the season.


I would submit that writing off X versus any high school team anywhere is silly given what they've done this year.

I have to agree with the consular about ST.X vs DLS, with respect to schedule strength "this year".

[Jesse]

This is a question nobody seems to want to ask or answer. Except for the bologna about home field merely being worth 1.5 points or something stupid. In the NCAA 3 to 7 is generally considered the HFA spread. Book is not legally made on HS games but Danny Sheridan quoted 7-10 pt in answer to a hypothetical question several years back.

[Jesse]

His mental powers are beyond the comprehension of mere mortals. Even if I did know at one time, apparently I can't remember....

Your first sentence demonstrates incontrovertibly, that you still retain a slender hope of shedding the frailties of mere mortals.:angel: Keep your chin up.Both of them:)

[Jesse]

1) The DLS guy I went to the game with had an even lower opinion than I. It's not like we had any motive to dog Georgia ball. Honest impressions from two guys from two different states with no dog in the fight. Snipe away.

2) What is GAVSV so I know what I'm avoiding so strenuously.

3) Old Rabid. Is that a dog?

4) That is nice of Lowndes. Who have they invited?

5) Maybe Lowndes would do well versus the rest of the GCL. They have a loss already and it wasn't exactly Northside they were playing.

6) You need to mix in a "yo mamma" joke every now and then. That's all That's keeping you from true comic genius.

Lowndes has a standing $15,000 offer.Lets keep families out of this.As for Rabid,he's the old fellow who prompted you to check into the mental health ward at Crawford Long back in 01 after a particularly racous debate you lost on PGN.Hurry over to Rite-Aid and fill that script or your bar privledges will be revoked! :) Lowndes will win AAAAA, Northside could probably still beat them, and Harrison is not a slouch team.
Georgia Varsity Sports Vent! Scout not Rivals.
http://www.ghsfha.org/ Is there a site you know of as comphrensive as this detailing the history of HS ball in any state? Just curious, not a bee in your bonnet.:shrug:






http://www.ghsfha.org/ This site has every state score from 1948 through last night. In the forums there is a header "Atlanta City League". Boys High and Tech High traversed the nation east of the Missisippi River from the 1930's through 1946 playing and beating teams from PA, NJ,NY,MA,VA,MZ,AR,IL, KY,and of course FL,SC,NC,TN, MS,AL. Those two schools were split into approx 8 schools following the 1946 season.http://ghsfha.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=357 But they were truely "Road Kings" each playing as many as 5 out of state teams per year.From 1933-1946 Miami High's only losses were either to Boys High,Tech High or Richmond Academy. The Boys High -Miami High usually determined the "Southern" champion. They met 13 times. Miami high won 6, Boys High won 5, and there were 2 ties.points scored Miami High 146,
Boys High 136. Average ppg Miami 11.2, Boys 10.4. And 10 of those 13 games were played in the Orange Bowl. If any state has as comprehensive of a site detailing their states HS football history I haven't located it. Our record against OOS comp is second to none.And can be proved!Enjoy the site.Sorry no smack board, just history backed by credible sources.http://www.georgiatrend.com/features-sports-leisure/ray-chaney.shtml Tech High alumni for years claimed they won the series.Seems selective amnesia caused the Smithies to omit a few games.See the URL below topic #441 for the real dope.:) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Front_of_Grady.jpg Home of the once mighty Boys High
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Grady_E_Building.jpg
http://www.sbcharch.com/C6_d.html old Tech High just around the corner from Boys, now apts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponce_de_Leon_Park

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grady_Stadium

Some great players strapped it on at these two stadiums.Capacity for Grady is officially 15,000


http://www.columbusga.org/parks/park_sites/SC.htm#MS This isn't a bad "little" hs stadium either.UGA-Auburn played here 42 times.Notice in the 1960 pic the endzone seats now removed.Capacity was 35,000.Now 22,500




http://ghsfha.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=441
Q&A with Chelsea Clinton:

Q-What are the three most dangerous threats facing America today?

CC- I really am not certain.

Q- I hear they are Osama, Obama, and Yo Mama.

CC- Thanks for the tip.

[concha]

I have to agree with the consular about ST.X vs DLS, with respect to schedule strength "this year".

X's schedule is probably tougher than DLS's in most years, especially now with the Herbie and Colerain's rise nationally:

This year X's schedule is easily tougher.

Last year X's opponents had a superior record (though not by a landslide like this year) and faced Lakeland and Colerain.

In '05 X's opponents went 124-39 (exclusive of losses to X). DLS's were 90-47 (excl. DLS games).

In '04 X's opponents were only 82-43. DLS's were something like 107-34 with games versus MV and Bellevue.

In 2003, DLS's opponents were 97-41. X's were 61-36.

That's all I have. I'd give three straight for X and the prior two to DLS.

[concha]

Lowndes has a standing $15,000 offer.Lets keep families out of this.As for Rabid,he's the old fellow who prompted you to check into the mental health ward at Crawford Long back in 01 after a particularly racous debate you lost on PGN. [My Alzheimer's is apparently keeping me from recalling this ancient debate. Please understand my doubts as to your objectivity in determining a debate winner. :) ] Hurry over to Rite-Aid and fill that script or your bar privledges will be revoked! :) Lowndes will win AAAAA, Northside could probably still beat them, and Harrison is not a slouch team.
Georgia Varsity Sports Vent! Scout not Rivals.
http://www.ghsfha.org/ Is there a site you know of as comphrensive as this detailing the history of HS ball in any state? Just curious, not a bee in your bonnet.:shrug:






http://www.ghsfha.org/ This site has every state score from 1948 through last night. In the forums there is a header "Atlanta City League". Boys High and Tech High traversed the nation east of the Missisippi River from the 1930's through 1946 playing and beating teams from PA, NJ,NY,MA,VA,MZ,AR,IL, KY,and of course FL,SC,NC,TN, MS,AL. Those two schools were split into approx 8 schools following the 1946 season. But they were truely "Road Kings" each playing as many as 5 out of state teams per year.From 1933-1946 Miami High's only losses were either to Boys High,Tech High or Richmond Academy. The Boys High -Miami High usually determined the "Southern" champion. They met 13 times. Miami high won 6, Boys High won 5, and there were 2 ties.points scored Miami High 146,
Boys High 136. Average ppg Miami 11.2, Boys 10.4. And 10 of those 13 games were played in the Orange Bowl. If any state has as comprehensive of a site detailing their states HS football history I haven't located it. Our record against OOS comp is second to none.And can be proved!Enjoy the site.Sorry no smack board, just history backed by credible sources.



Q&A with Chelsea Clinton:

Q-What are the three most dangerous threats facing America today?

CC- I really am not certain.

Q- I hear they are Osama, Obama, and Yo Mama.

CC- Thanks for the tip.


Looks like a great site. I don't know of one as comprehensive.

[elwood]

"1) The DLS guy I went to the game with had an even lower opinion than I. It's not like we had any motive to dog Georgia ball. Honest impressions from two guys from two different states with no dog in the fight. Snipe away."

That's not true. You both wanted your respective home states to be superior to the other states, Georgia included. You went into the game expecting and subconsciously hoping to see inferior football. People can fit what they see into the altered form of reality they want to see. And some people are just biased against run-oriented defensive football games. Which is an ineffective way to really judge the quality of teams.

Incorrect. I AM "The DLS guy" with whom concha attended the game, and we were there hoping to be impressed with the highest quality of football that the great state of Georgia had to offer. Now bearing in mind that it is the first game of the season for these teams, and they are playing in the Georgia Dome, maybe expectations should be lower. But what we saw was as follows:

1. Slow play development
2. Poor execution
--a. Passing
--b. Tackling
--c. Blocking

Perhaps it was game 1 jitters. Perhaps they nullified each other - I doubt it.

(I've seen good teams play poorly - case in point: DLS in Calif State Title Game '06. They did not come close to resembling the team that defeated Elder in the Herbie. If that was the first time that I had seen DLS I would have said "what's all the hype about?")

Did both Georgia teams nullify themselves? Perhaps. They certainly nullified the crowd with their poor execution. To me they simply looked like average teams that executed occasionally, but made many more mistakes that took them out of their game. Run of the mill high school football - not the best that the state has to offer. We were both genuinely disappointed. I brought my son and concha had brought his entire family. I don't know about him but I was hoping to be entertained and impressed. I've got better things to do than sit around watching mediocre football. Have not attended since.

Please tell me what I'm thinking oh clairvoyant one.

Rabid one? You can't be serious. Any time he is presented with facts that refute his claims, he simply never rejoins the thread. Classic case of a rabid dog that likes the sound of his own voice. Aptly named.

[concha]

Incorrect. I AM "The DLS guy" that concha with whom concha attended the game, and we were there hoping to be impressed with the highest quality of football that the great state of Georgia had to offer. Now bearing in mind that it is the first game of the season for these teams, and they are playing in the Georgia Dome, maybe expectations shoudl be lower. But what we saw was as follows:

1. Slow play development
2. Poor execution
a. Passing
b. Tackling
c. Blocking

Perhaps it was game 1 jitters. Perhaps they nullified each other - I doubt it.

(I've seen good teams play poorly - case in point: DLS in Calif State Title Game '06. They did not come close to resembling the team that defeated Elder in the Herbie. If that was the first time that I had seen DLS I would have said "what's all the hype about?")

Did both Georgia teams nullify themselves? Perhaps. They certainly nullified the crowd with their poor execution. To me they simply looked like average teams that executed occasionally, but made many more mistakes that took them out of their game. Run of the mill high school football - not the best that the state has to offer. We were both genuinely disappointed. I brought my son and concha had brought his entire family. I don't know about him but I was hoping to be entertained and impressed. I've got better things to do than sit around watching mediocre football. Have not attended since.

Please tell me what I'm thinking oh clairvoyant one.

Rabid one? You can't be serious. Any time he is presented with facts that refute his claims, he simply never rejoins the thread. Classic case of a rabid dog that likes the sound of his own voice. Aptly named.

wood,

How's things? Are you liking the new digs up in the mountains?

I don't think any Georgia fan would have been impressed or proud of the performance on the field that day. Early, hyped up games between top teams can be funny though.

I remember being amazed at the call play. They'd call a run play and it would go nowhere. They'd try it again. No joy. They'd then keep doing it as if their opponent just kept getting lucky. Nobody wants to watch that.

[Chicago]

One year in the 80s Athens (GA) Clarke Central eventually went to #1 USA Today, I believe.

And then they lost (in what might have been their next game) 59-6 or so.

[pied]

wood,

How's things? Are you liking the new digs up in the mountains?

I don't think any Georgia fan would have been impressed or proud of the performance on the field that day. Early, hyped up games between top teams can be funny though.

I remember being amazed at the call play. They'd call a run play and it would go nowhere. They'd try it again. No joy. They'd then keep doing it as if their opponent just kept getting lucky. Nobody wants to watch that.


Reminds me of this weekend's Michigan-tOSU game.

I think that game set college football back 20 years.

[concha]

Reminds me of this weekend's Michigan-tOSU game.

I think that game set college football back 20 years.

Win ugly, win pretty.... still a win....:blush:

[Chicago]

Hey, I liked 1987.

[pied]

Hey, I liked 1987.

That's only because you didn't know any better.

You were driving around in your Cavalier jamming to Higher Love, Graceland, and That's What friends are For.

[Chicago]

I wish I'd had a Cavalier.

I had a bicycle.

Things are much better now (not to go all SLCDad on you or anything).

[Jesse]

One year in the 80s Athens (GA) Clarke Central eventually went to #1 USA Today, I believe.

And then they lost (in what might have been their next game) 59-6 or so.


Clarke Central lost to LaGrange 27-22 in the semifinals in 1983. The next week in the championship LaGrange lost to Tift County 59-6 at Callaway (the same Callaway family we all associate with golf clubs)Stadium in LaGrange. Interstingly enough that LaGrange had future Alabama qb Vince Sutton, Clemson qb DeChane Cameron, AA Auburn tackle Nate Hill,
AA Clemson de John Johnson.Still have the program somewhere.7 or 8 future NFL draftees were on the field that night.Tifts te became a Vol, their qb a Gator, and the center a Criminole.


S an aside Clarke Central was known as Athens High until 1970.One of their better known players during that era was Fran Tarkenton.

[Jesse]

Reminds me of this weekend's Michigan-tOSU game.

I think that game set college football back 20 years.

I get the drift that you do not care for 3 yds and a cloud of dust.:)

God bless the memory of Woody, and screw the team up north. Tressel shouldn't have too much trouble with "Lost Miles".

[Jesse]

Hey, I liked 1987.


Here is a question you may be able to answer. Bob Shannon was forced out of East St.Louis, sat out for a year and began coaching Granite City,Il.Any info on if he is still in coaching, or admin.?

[Chicago]

I'll try to find out.

His 1985 team was unbelievable, not that I saw it (USA Today #1, though).

There is a book about Shannon and East St. Louis out (I read it and liked it).

Wheaton Warrenville-South beat East St. Louis this past Saturday in the 7A semifinals (26-0).

I was going to go, but it was raining (I am soft like that).

Here's something:

http://prepsports.stltoday.com/ssi/prep/stories2008.nsf/football/story/BBAB4FA6F5EC4AC58625738D0017E8C6?OpenDocument

[elwood]

wood,

How's things? Are you liking the new digs up in the mountains?

I don't think any Georgia fan would have been impressed or proud of the performance on the field that day. Early, hyped up games between top teams can be funny though.

I remember being amazed at the call play. They'd call a run play and it would go nowhere. They'd try it again. No joy. They'd then keep doing it as if their opponent just kept getting lucky. Nobody wants to watch that.

concha,

Things are great up in the mountains. Hope that you are still enjoying "the ATL".

Yes, I've got to believe that both teams are much better than what we saw - I'm just surprised that the locals are so defensive about it.

Congrats to St. X on a great year. Saw College Gameday on Sat. show some brief highlights of the game vs. Colerain - one of the bennies of having an Ohio boy on TV every Saturday.

Wish we could get X vs. DLS some year when they are both up - but then when it's over there would be nothing left for anyone to debate...:cool:

[Chicago]

Good luck trying to settle a high school football argument on the field.

That's just crazy.

Look at Pied's list of excuses.

And look at almost every SLCDad postgame comment ever.

[concha]

The dog ate X's playbook.

[elwood]

The dog ate X's playbook.

LOL - that's the same dog that ate the Spartan playbook last December. Damn dog - should introduce him to Mr. Vick.

[pied]

LOL - that's the same dog that ate the Spartan playbook last December. Damn dog - should introduce him to Mr. Vick.

What, the dog ate the "hand the ball to your hardest runner when you need two yards", and the only one Lad could find was, "pitch the ball back two yards to your backup RBfor some crazy reason" play?

I think the CC coach's dog ate the page that indicates to stop throwing when your QB is throwing like a four year old in the second half.

[skyway28]

In the NCAA 3 to 7 is generally considered the HFA spread. Book is not legally made on HS games but Danny Sheridan quoted 7-10 pt in answer to a hypothetical question several years back.

That's fine. But, with momentum and HFA varying, it can end up meaning a lot more. It means next to nothing in some places/situations, and much more in others. You can use statistics and try to generate a rough, baseline value. I think 7 points each way is fair. Meaning, two teams that would play to a tie on a neutral field would beat the other by 7 in a home game. In the case of Lakeland-X, a 3-point road win would mean a 10-point neutral site win and a 17-point win if the game was played in Lakeland. But, I don't think you can arbitrarily assign one value to all situations.

[Jesse]

Good luck trying to settle a high school football argument on the field.

That's just crazy.

Look at Pied's list of excuses.

And look at almost every SLCDad postgame comment ever.

Come now, do you believe we could have this much fun going around and about over HS basketball or baseball? All in good clean fun:cool:

[Chicago]

I know.