View Full Version : Elder/Beavercreek refs were horrible!
Soccerwench
11-04-07, 07:21 AM
No matter which side you were on, the refs were just awful......why would they send three beer-bellied referees (with apparently bad eyesight as well) to officiate an important game like a regional final? they couldn't keep up with play, they missed offsides calls, they couldn't remember which team just committed a handball, guys were wrestling on the ground and there was no calls, blatant shoves in the back (and loss of advantage) with no calls ...aren't there ANY fitness requirements for refs? can't we get refs that have actually PLAYED the game?...this was just disgraceful
I agree 100%! I was shocked at how bad the linesman was on my side. I was on the Beavercreek side (rooting for Elder, didn't want the sun in my eyes) and the line judge missed at least 10 calls! Frankly, I've never seen such poor decisions.
On a particularly bad call involved a ball that barley touched the line which Beavercreek kept control of and resulted in there heading for a dangerous opportunity when the linesmen waved his flag and claimed it was out! I had a great view and it wasn't even CLOSE to being out. The ref made the call from 30 yards away! To make matters worse, when the Beavercreek assistant coach said something this thin skinned ref stopped play to cry to the center ref!
The only good news is that by the end of the game, this guys poor calls had evened out between both teams so neither was screwed the kids just had to deal with what was in my opinion very lax line officiating.
Now on the Elder PK, I need clarification from a ref here. The BC kid had already headed the ball which was clearly going out of play (he got his head on it at the back edge of the box) when he got leveled by the goalie. It was a foul but the ball was already out of bounds when the foul happened! Should that have been a PK?
For the missed call against Elder, are you guys talking about the play in the 2nd half with Elder leading 3 - 1? To me that was an obvious pk. He took the Elder kid down from behind in the box. My thought when the ref didn't blow the whistle was that a PK at that point would have made it 4 - 1 and ended the game! Still, why the ref did not whistle that one after having given BC a controversial PK was hard to stomach.
My final criticism of the refs was that at the end of the half the kids lined up ready to go and had to wait for the refs to show! Where the heck were these guys? The clock had ticked off the 10 minutes and was set to go. In all my years of watching soccer I've never seen kids have to wait so long for the refs to return. Very unprofessional in my opinion.
HDvHS FAN
11-04-07, 08:46 AM
This all sounds like the Davidson-Kilbourne game. The refs were horrible. Davidson was fouled 2 seperate times in the box and both times the center caller dangerous play and instead of a PK davidson was awarded 2 indirect free kicks inside the box (one from just infront of the pk spot which they scored on and on out on the right wing)
My favorite was when one of the Elder fans yelled, "Could you guys step it up a notch? We've got a football game to get to!" as the refs were coming back from halftime. (Must have been a party in the Port-O-Let or something.)
My only guess on the Creek penalty kick was that the ref was calling a blatant foul on the Elder keeper as he went to punch the ball out of the air. From my vantage point, it looked like the keeper watched the ball the entire time and didn't "target" the Creek player. Yes, they did collide (in the air), but it didn't seem intentional/blatant.
This call could have swayed the game BIG TIME. And here I thought center refs didn't make calls in the box that would effect the game in such a way.
Now... the no call in the Creek box late in the game was unbelievable. That's two games in a row. Someone on here said the center ref was from Dayton and the two on the lines were from Cincy, right? Hmmmm.....
SoccerBarnes
11-04-07, 09:20 AM
"On a particularly bad call involved a ball that barley touched the line which Beavercreek kept control of and resulted in there heading for a dangerous opportunity when the linesmen waved his flag and claimed it was out! I had a great view and it wasn't even CLOSE to being out. The ref made the call from 30 yards away! To make matters worse, when the Beavercreek assistant coach said something this thin skinned ref stopped play to cry to the center ref! "
I couldn't agree more lotr10! This happened right in front of me . #9 for Beavercreek had beat a couple of defenders in a hard fought battle and had the ball going up the line on what clearly was going to be a goal scoring opportunity. The ball NEVER went out. But the chubby linesman called it out even though he was way out of position at the other end of the field. The center who was very near the play didn't call it till the linesman did.
I also agree that Beavercreek's PK was questionable.
In the first half a linesman called an Elder player offside, held the flag up for 30 seconds and the center never saw it.
Also, how many times did the center ref take advantage away from both teams. Were all the decent refs at the Ohio State game?
pate23516
11-04-07, 10:04 AM
I didnt see the game, but I just wanted to agree with Soccerwench when they said "can't we get refs that have actually PLAYED the game?"...Those are the best kinds of refs when they know the game, have played it themselves so they know what it is like for a player (although not all retired players would be good refs), and are in decent enough shape to make a 90 yard run to stay up with the play
CreekAlum06
11-04-07, 10:32 AM
the refs were awful in every way. These clowns were obviously out of shape and incompetent to boot, almost bumbling. I would expect that as the tournament progressed, we would see BETTER refs, not worse. Is there nobody reviewing these guys?
I seem to recall hearing stories that refs are required to complete a two mile "run," but that many of them actually walk it. These guys must fall in that category. What a joke.
I often hear from players and former players that they don't want to become refs because of the "abuse."
However, my general experience has been that when there is competent, fair refereeing, there is no abuse.
I would hope that there is enough complaints that these guys don't ref tournament play in the future, but I'm sure that's not the case.
IrishFire
11-04-07, 04:07 PM
Now on the Elder PK, I need clarification from a ref here. The BC kid had already headed the ball which was clearly going out of play (he got his head on it at the back edge of the box) when he got leveled by the goalie. It was a foul but the ball was already out of bounds when the foul happened! Should that have been a PK?
If the foul occured in the penalty box of the player being called for the foul a penalty kick should be awarded to their opponent regardless of where on the field the ball is, including out of bounds.
phatneff
11-04-07, 08:24 PM
Sorry, guys, but I wasn't there so I can't comment on the officiating.
However, I will agree with many of the statements that the referees at that level should be competent of the game (having played it before), in shape, and consistent.
Unfortunately, the voting process for tournament officials has only recently changed (this year), so the refs you see in this tournament were voted on last year through the old method. That method consisted of the coaches writing the names down of the referees that they would like to see in the tournament. The problem with that was that the coaches would either NOT write anybody's name down, or they would only write the names down of the people they KNEW. Many of the officials are a part of an "old boys" club so-to-speak because they've been around for a long time or the brown-nose coaches so that their names are remembered. Therefore, that is what you see out there. I am totally against that and would never play that political game.
This year, all officials are supposed to be "graded" after every game by the coaches and administrators of the school, as well as eventually by the assigners and other people. So HOPEFULLY, we'll see some better officiating throughout the tournament. However, this will only work if the the coaches do their jobs, too, but OBJECTIVELY grading the officials. They can't grade on personal feelings, but rather by how they actually officiated the game.
So, just as it was before, it is now...........the responsibility lies on the coaches for them to decide who should be officiating the tournament. It behooves them to do it, as they are only hurting themselves and their players.
If the foul occured in the penalty box of the player being called for the foul a penalty kick should be awarded to their opponent regardless of where on the field the ball is, including out of bounds.
That is incorrect. Once a ball is out of bounds there can only be an indirect kick even if red a yellow card is given.
MajorFan
11-05-07, 07:59 AM
Stuff I agree with:
1. The refs were out of shape.
2. They were terrible and blew multiple calls for both Elder and 'Creek.
3. The referenced slideline out of bounds play was ridiculous. More in a minute.
3. Gotta be able to find better refs.
4. All the crap evened out in the end.
The explanation for the sideline play was this: The sideline ref raised his flag signaling the ball for Elder. The 'Creek assistant coach went nuts and then the sideline ref starting screaming at him that if he wasn't standing so close to the line he could have made the call. The center ref immediately signals Elder ball and then listens to the AR complain about the coach. I was on the track for this play and both refs blew it.
Stuff I disagree with:
1. The alleged 'Creek shove in the box when Elder was leading 3-1. The Elder forward was in a great position to score and was heading right to left just outside the box. The 'Creek defender realized that they were out of position and shoved the forward with both hands about 1 step outside the box. Again, I was standing on the track when it happened and was closer than the center ref. It was bad enough that I said, "Well, there's a card, but at least he got him outside the box." The 'Creek defender would have been carded if this was a regular season game, but the foul did happen just outside the box.
2. The no call that no one has mentioned: When 'Creek scored their second goal, about half the players on the field were in the box. It was very crowded so few people saw that after the ball went in, #20 for Beavercreek was on the ground and the Elder goalie punched him in the chest. The 'Creek player got up and put his hands on the goalie and the center ref ran over and broke it up. This was the worst of the no calls. The goalie should have been red carded and 'Creek should have had another PK. The center ref blew this one big time. Again, I was on the track at that end of the field and was in position to see this happen.
After all is said and done, Elder did what they had to do to win the game. Congrats to the Panthers and I hope you go all the way. Better to lose to the eventual winner than someone who gets smoked in the next round.
'Creek: Thanks for a wonderful, magical season. This one was one for the ages. :)
phatneff
11-05-07, 08:13 AM
The referees for Tuesday's Div. I game at Cedarville are as follows:
Center - Dayton
Assitant - Columbus
Assitant - Cincinnati
The center ref from Dayton is one of the most experienced and respected referees in high school. I worked with him a few years ago at a regional game at Northmont and from what I remember, he was decent. However, it was a girls game and there wasn't that much to call. With that being said, I'm not going to say that there will be no controversy during Tuesday's game, but he should do well.
I'm curious to know what you guys think after the game.
EHSpanther03
11-05-07, 08:21 AM
How about the ref stopping the clock at the end of the game to show Beavercreek where to throw the ball in from. After Beavercreek drew within 1 and had a chance to tie it up, they had a throw in on there defensive half of the field. They were too far up the line and instead of blowing the whistle and showing them where the throw should be taken from, the ref signals to stop the clock, shows them where it should be and then starts the clock. This all happened with under 3 minutes in the game. How many times were throw-ins taken in this game from the wrong spot and the ref didn't stop the clock?
phatneff
11-05-07, 08:22 AM
And then for the Div. I final at Columbus Crew Stadium at 7:00 p.m. on Friday:
Center - Columbus
Assistant - Cincinnati
Assistant - BEAVERCREEK!
I am not familiar with the center ref guy.
LastMin
11-05-07, 11:46 AM
a goalie can go up and hit a player if the ball is in the area as long as it looks as if he is going for the ball...goalies can almost do anything
MajorFan
11-05-07, 01:43 PM
a goalie can go up and hit a player if the ball is in the area as long as it looks as if he is going for the ball...goalies can almost do anything
If you are referring to my post, this has to be the most inane thing I've read on yappi. I'll do the timeline again...
As 'Creek scores, #20 (Pollock) falls to the ground.
The Elder goalie goes over to him and punches him in the chest.
Pollock jumps up and gets in the goalie's face.
The center ref verbally reprimands both players.
For the record, goalies cannot take a swing at other players.
phatneff
11-05-07, 02:08 PM
If you are referring to my post, this has to be the most inane thing I've read on yappi. I'll do the timeline again...
As 'Creek scores, #20 (Pollock) falls to the ground.
The Elder goalie goes over to him and punches him in the chest.
Pollock jumps up and gets in the goalie's face.
The center ref verbally reprimands both players.
For the record, goalies cannot take a swing at other players.
If I would have been the CR and saw that, I would have definitely ejected the goalie. Punches aren't tolerated by anybody at anywhere on the field, or off for that matter. NFHS is different from USSF in the fact that you can card anyone from the team (player, coach, assitant, etc.) on or off the field of play. In USSF, only players that are on the field of play can be carded.
westhigh101
11-05-07, 03:31 PM
if you were watching from the elder cheering section you would have seen #20's hand around the goalies neck, jerking him out of the play, which is why he hit him in the chest
If you are referring to my post, this has to be the most inane thing I've read on yappi. I'll do the timeline again...
He wasn't. He was talking about the PK that Beavercreek "earned" early in the 2nd half.
MajorFan
11-05-07, 08:17 PM
Luke, you are wrong.
Statechamps02
11-05-07, 08:47 PM
It was a shove after Hurley was thrown to the ground, I was over by the fence on that side of the field. If it was a punch, I think there would be more talk about it. Pollock deserved it. He purposely threw Hurley to the ground in frustration that his season was over.
Grizz09
11-05-07, 08:53 PM
No one deserves to get punched and pollock never threw the goalie to the ground, besides how could he the goalie was only a giant!
That happened right after me and the fam' left our seats, so I did not get to see the goal (or the alleged extracurriculars).
Is it time to go to the STATE SEMIS yet?
How in the world do you have twice as many posts as I do when you've only been posting since January and I just "celebrated" my 6-year anniversary here? Ja-heesh!
Statechamps02
11-05-07, 10:13 PM
No one deserves to get punched and pollock never threw the goalie to the ground, besides how could he the goalie was only a giant!
Exactly...if the goalie was so huge and Pollock got punched then wouldn't he be on the ground?? Come on now. That goalie hasn't done anything all season long to anyone. I don't think he would have an instant urge to just punch someone for no reason after 20 games. Something obviously happened to him.
phatneff
11-06-07, 08:02 AM
That's right....you left early.....SLACKER!
I didn't see anything worse than what we would get into at the SportsMall!
Oh no! You guys play at the SportsMall?? On Red Bank??
phatneff
11-06-07, 11:49 AM
Thank God!! :)
CreekAlum06
11-06-07, 08:33 PM
I agree 100%! I was shocked at how bad the linesman was on my side. I was on the Beavercreek side (rooting for Elder, didn't want the sun in my eyes) and the line judge missed at least 10 calls! Frankly, I've never seen such poor decisions.
On a particularly bad call involved a ball that barley touched the line which Beavercreek kept control of and resulted in there heading for a dangerous opportunity when the linesmen waved his flag and claimed it was out! I had a great view and it wasn't even CLOSE to being out. The ref made the call from 30 yards away! To make matters worse, when the Beavercreek assistant coach said something this thin skinned ref stopped play to cry to the center ref!
The only good news is that by the end of the game, this guys poor calls had evened out between both teams so neither was screwed the kids just had to deal with what was in my opinion very lax line officiating.
Now on the Elder PK, I need clarification from a ref here. The BC kid had already headed the ball which was clearly going out of play (he got his head on it at the back edge of the box) when he got leveled by the goalie. It was a foul but the ball was already out of bounds when the foul happened! Should that have been a PK?
For the missed call against Elder, are you guys talking about the play in the 2nd half with Elder leading 3 - 1? To me that was an obvious pk. He took the Elder kid down from behind in the box. My thought when the ref didn't blow the whistle was that a PK at that point would have made it 4 - 1 and ended the game! Still, why the ref did not whistle that one after having given BC a controversial PK was hard to stomach.
My final criticism of the refs was that at the end of the half the kids lined up ready to go and had to wait for the refs to show! Where the heck were these guys? The clock had ticked off the 10 minutes and was set to go. In all my years of watching soccer I've never seen kids have to wait so long for the refs to return. Very unprofessional in my opinion.
I'm sorry , but I'm having a hard time of letting go of this..is there anybody we can complain to about the piece of crap refs they sent to this game...the kids, the parents and the schools have way too much invested to let idiots like this ruin the game .. I'm over the result...but who knows how these guys have affected games this season ..they were HORRIBLE!!!!....these guys need to be gone..how do we do this?
CreekAlumn-No one to complain to. You could send your comments to the OHSAA, but I would bet that nothing will change.
phatneff
11-07-07, 09:34 AM
CreekAlumn-No one to complain to. You could send your comments to the OHSAA, but I would bet that nothing will change.
I disagree, Gview. CreekAlum, try one of these people:
Henry Zaborniak, Jr., OHSAA Assistant Commissioner
4080 Roselea Place, Columbus 43214. B: 614-267-2502, ext. 111
email: hzaborniak@ohsaa.org
Areas of Responsibility: ejections; tournament assignments; uniforms;
appeals
.
Kim Zaborniak, OHSAA Administrative Assistant
4080 Roselea Place, Columbus 43214. B: 614-267-2502, ext. 112
email: kzaborniak@ohsaa.org
Areas of Responsibility: maintaining instructors, assigners, local
secretaries and meetings; Handbook for Officials; Hall of Fame; Meritorious Certificates
.
Connie Scherpf, OHSAA Officiating Registrar
4080 Roselea Place, Columbus 43214. B: 614-267-2502, ext. 110
email: cscherpf@ohsaa.org
Areas of Responsibility: Officiating Applications; Testing; Annual Renewals;
Suspensions; Change of Address/Status; Insurance; Forms, Supplies, Equipment, Adult Education Class
approval and supplies
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