View Full Version : Elder beats Mason in Overtime
Elder beat Mason tonight in overtime 2 - 1.
TheTribe
10-30-07, 08:41 PM
any details?
jackhammer19
10-30-07, 08:49 PM
wow. unfortunately I wasn't there but it sounds like it was a helluva game.
PURPLE REIGN
10-30-07, 08:59 PM
Way to go Elder!!!
More Details on tonight's thrilling game:
* Elder & Mason played to a 0 - 0 draw at half. Both teams had some great opportunities but Mason seemed to gain the advantage as the half went along. Two long range Mason shots hit the post and froze the Elder goalie in place. Both Mason & Elder each had empty nets that they couldn't get the ball into.
* Early in the second half #10 scored to give Elder a 1 - 0 lead. At that point the Panthers went into a bit of a shell and Mason took the game over and pressured the Elder box the rest of the night before notching the equalizer with about 4 minutes left in the game.
* Overtime saw both teams have opportunities to put the game away with Elder drilling home the winning goal about 5 minutes into sudden death.
* Great game to watch with a lot of fast paced action. I give the edge to Mason on possession but they couldn't get that second goal.
* The game was very well officiated. I saw no mistakes by the center ref or the linesmen. They let the kids play but never let it get out of hand. Huge improvement over Saturday's officiating. I would have this crew do the next round of games.
* There was a big crowd tonight and both schools brought large and obnoxious student cheering sections. I thought the Elder chant of "USA", "USA" was classless when Niro took free kicks for Mason. First off, Niro was one of the best, if not the best players out there, and the chant in my opinion was over the line. Aren't there any priests at these games to keep an eye on these kids? Someone in authority from Elder should have nipped that chant in the bud. It does an otherwise classy institution no credit.
So the question is can Elder take state and why did the very talented Mason team get knocked out. IMHO, both Elder and Mason have fatal flaws, though Mason's was far more problematic.
* Mason's fatal flaw was the complete lack of an offensive throw in. I have never seen a team at this level that could not take advantage of throw ins from deep in the opponents side of play. I kid you not when I say that the Comets had at least 20 throw in's from INSIDE the Elder 15 yard line (near the box) and not once were able to put it into the box. Every time they threw to the foot of a player about 5 yards away. Tactically, this put Mason at a huge disadvantage as the Panthers never paid a price for knocking the ball out of bounds adjacent to their box. In contrast, #10 for Elder was throwing the ball into the mason box every time when Elder had a throw in inside the 25! In fact a throw in in overtime set up the chain of events that led to Elder's winning goal.
* Elder's fatal flaw was they don't substitute enough. I know they won the game, but did anyone else notice that #10 and #12 stopped running at the 20 minute mark of the second half and that the Elder midfield was getting beat to almost every ball in the 2nd half of the second half! Sorry, but fatigue clearly had set in. Mason had way to many opportunities in the second half and Elder had way to few effective counter attacks.
Still a great game between two superb soccer teams!
jake3269
10-30-07, 09:12 PM
Mason-- 17-1!!
enuf said
GO PANTHERS!!!!!
Wow, what a match! Mason played very well, they can really control the ball. I also thought that Elder really looked beat towards the end. They were getting run down at the midfield, and the two forwards looked spent. Not sure what they have on the bench, but some fresh legs may have helped. The defense was on their heels most of the second half, but held on strong. #5 really played well for Elder at sweeper. Great low to the ground overtime shot for the win.
one of the best games so far this year that i have seen. Elder came out and were controlling the game for the first few minutes. Had a open net header taht hit the crossbar and went straight down. It was cleared off the line
Mason then settled down and began to play their game. They had a few oppurtunities. One was free kick from 30 to 40 yards out that #1 Seth Petrey hit. It had the keeper beat and from the stands you could see the ball moving. It pinged the crossbar. Elder also cleared a ball off the line after tha ball got past the keeper. 0-0 at half.
Elder got their goal about 5 -10 minutes into the second half. The ref made a controversial no call in Mason's box that would of resulted in a PK for elder but it worked out for them b/c the ball slide across the box for elder's out side mid #4 miles to one touch it into the net.
Mason got their tying goal with about 15 minutes left. It was great ball movement that found its way to a forward and the keeper made a great save but the ball rebounded to #7 ivan for mason who slotted the ball home. Mason had a few more oppurtunites but couldn't find the net.
In OT i looked as if mason was going to get a quick goal but there was great defense by elder to black a shot after a great sequence by mason. A few minutes later elder got a free kick. The ball was hit low and hard across the goal where either #9 the other meyer or #12 schaefer redirected the ball into the corner.
This was one of the best officiated games that i have seen and played in all year. He was consistent on the calls he made and didn't make.
Great year for the Comets and Good luck to Elder.
Were any of you guys out there surprised at how weak the Mason throw ins were when they were deep in Elder's half of the field? If Mason had a kid that could launch the ball into the box you have to think the Comets might have had a couple more goals. I mean they were getting loads of throw ins adjacent to the Elder box and not once did they have a dangerous throw in. In contrast, Elder had about one quarter as many throw ins but all of them were dangerous and deep into the Mason box. To me this was the difference in the game.
envelope
10-30-07, 09:36 PM
More Details on tonight's thrilling game:
* Elder & Mason played to a 0 - 0 draw at half. Both teams had some great opportunities but Mason seemed to gain the advantage as the half went along. Two long range Mason shots hit the post and froze the Elder goalie in place. Both Mason & Elder each had empty nets that they couldn't get the ball into.
* Early in the second half #10 scored to give Elder a 1 - 0 lead. At that point the Panthers went into a bit of a shell and Mason took the game over and pressured the Elder box the rest of the night before notching the equalizer with about 4 minutes left in the game.
* Overtime saw both teams have opportunities to put the game away with Elder drilling home the winning goal about 5 minutes into sudden death.
* Great game to watch with a lot of fast paced action. I give the edge to Mason on possession but they couldn't get that second goal.
* The game was very well officiated. I saw no mistakes by the center ref or the linesmen. They let the kids play but never let it get out of hand. Huge improvement over Saturday's officiating. I would have this crew do the next round of games.
* There was a big crowd tonight and both schools brought large and obnoxious student cheering sections. I thought the Elder chant of "USA", "USA" was classless when Niro took free kicks for Mason. First off, Niro was one of the best, if not the best players out there, and the chant in my opinion was over the line. Aren't there any priests at these games to keep an eye on these kids? Someone in authority from Elder should have nipped that chant in the bud. It does an otherwise classy institution no credit.
So the question is can Elder take state and why did the very talented Mason team get knocked out. IMHO, both Elder and Mason have fatal flaws, though Mason's was far more problematic.
* Mason's fatal flaw was the complete lack of an offensive throw in. I have never seen a team at this level that could not take advantage of throw ins from deep in the opponents side of play. I kid you not when I say that the Comets had at least 20 throw in's from INSIDE the Elder 15 yard line (near the box) and not once were able to put it into the box. Every time they threw to the foot of a player about 5 yards away. Tactically, this put Mason at a huge disadvantage as the Panthers never paid a price for knocking the ball out of bounds adjacent to their box. In contrast, #10 for Elder was throwing the ball into the mason box every time when Elder had a throw in inside the 25! In fact a throw in in overtime set up the chain of events that led to Elder's winning goal.
* Elder's fatal flaw was they don't substitute enough. I know they won the game, but did anyone else notice that #10 and #12 stopped running at the 20 minute mark of the second half and that the Elder midfield was getting beat to almost every ball in the 2nd half of the second half! Sorry, but fatigue clearly had set in. Mason had way to many opportunities in the second half and Elder had way to few effective counter attacks.
Still a great game between two superb soccer teams!
Niro has great class, is a great player , Niro you will win player of the year div 1 cincy, hold your head high, good luck in college, which ever college is lucky enough to have you, you represent the best of cincinnnati
charlemurphy
10-30-07, 09:41 PM
You took the USA cheer wrong. I am sure they ment USA as in United Soccer Association
charlemurphy
10-30-07, 09:43 PM
Plus the banner "Panthers take Bombers to prom" was pretty funny.
was the rook-e
10-30-07, 09:50 PM
You took the USA cheer wrong. I am sure they ment USA as in United Soccer Association
i would love to agree with you there but i doubt any of the fans have any clue about the United Soccer Association and they only chanted it when Niro had the ball or was taking a kick.
Were any of you guys out there surprised at how weak the Mason throw ins were when they were deep in Elder's half of the field? If Mason had a kid that could launch the ball into the box you have to think the Comets might have had a couple more goals. I mean they were getting loads of throw ins adjacent to the Elder box and not once did they have a dangerous throw in. In contrast, Elder had about one quarter as many throw ins but all of them were dangerous and deep into the Mason box. To me this was the difference in the game.
I don't believe this was the difference in the game, and I think you are putting a little too much emphasis on the long throw. True, some teams use this as an advantage, Fairfield and Elder being the most notable over the last few years. But that just didn't appear to be Mason's style of play. They were much more content retaining possession, quick passing, using space to generate their offensive attacks, and a few of those opportunities started off the throws deep in Elder territory.
You took the USA cheer wrong. I am sure they ment USA as in United Soccer Association
I don't think he took the cheer wrong way. But having said that, either I only heard it couple times early in the game before the Elder administration put an end to it or I was too caught up in the game to notice.
But lets not get caught up in the politically incorrect cheers from the two student sections and keep the discussion to the great game played tonight by both teams.
Statechamps02
10-30-07, 10:15 PM
Awesome game. Mason definitely had better posession the second half, Elder ran out of gas at minute 20. Just think if Mason had a stud keeper, unstoppable. I'm not putting down the keep, he does well for a soph(i think?).
The game was fast paced action. Petrey ripped his shot. One of the best I've ever seen in high school ball. Thought Elder clearly deserved 2 easy PK's, but they capitalized off the one no call.
Both cheering sections did some unclassy chants/posters. Elder did stop the USA cheer 2nd half, the AD stepped in and put a stop to it. Gotta love the fan support that came out for both teams.
Mason is clearly one of the best midfields I've ever seen come through cincy.
Come and support Cincy through the rest of the playoffs!
this was a clear push to the back right in front of the net.
The play that you are talking about was not "right in front of the net".
It was, in fact, out at the top of the box.
If the ref thought that it was a foul that needed to be called, he could have called it and placed the ball outside of the box. That's how close it was.
Do you remember where the ref was at the time of the play?
Maybe 10 yards behind and just slightly left.
He had a perfect view of what happened and decided not to call it.
Why? I don't know.
What I thought was kind of funny was the majority of the Elder fans weren't even paying attention to where the ball went after the "foul" and didn't see how the goal developed. They were too busy yelling at the ref and looking at where that play was.
I think that you will hear from many people that this was a very well officiated game.
I was sitting with a very experienced official who is also a state assessor and he said that the official would have passed every aspect of an assessment.
You may have/have not wanted a foul here or there, but you'll have that in every game. That is why they are judgement calls. I will take the judgement of an official with a view from where he was rather one from someone who was 60-80 yards away.
Statechamps02
10-30-07, 10:28 PM
What I thought was kind of funny was the majority of the Elder fans weren't even paying attention to where the ball went after the "foul" and didn't see how the goal developed. They were too busy yelling at the ref and looking at where that play was.
Now I want to know how you know what the Elder fans were doing? Were you watching the coaches?? They were yelling at the ref too until the ball went into the back of the net. People can yell and watch at the same time. I thought he missed an easy call when Corbett was tripped from behind as he split two defenders. Other than that, the officiating was pretty good. Maybe a little inconsistent on the "hands on the back" call during head balls, but nothing too big. Compared to last week, he did a stellar job.
ColerainWinsAgain
10-30-07, 10:41 PM
It was a great game... Everything that needs to be said was already said so I won't repeat it.
Whoever #10 is for Elder is a ballplayer, not to mention I don't think I've seen a team that can hit the throw ins as far as Elder...
floridafutboler08
10-30-07, 10:44 PM
Whoever #10 is for Elder is a ballplayer, not to mention I don't think I've seen a team that can hit the throw ins as far as Elder...
anthony meyer
EHS 2001
10-30-07, 10:45 PM
Photos from the match:
http://www.elderphotos.com/thumbnails.php?album=374
FYI - with the exception of the ref not having the balls to call a penalty inside the box I thought it was a pretty well officiated game.
BUT....when you have a clear drag down trip in front of the goal and a clear push from behind inside the box as a ref you have to have the guts to call it.
It's just that simple.
Easy buddy, the good guys won. The apparent foul on Corbett at the top of the box not inside, w/ @ 7 minutes left in the 2nd half was about the only no call I could complain about. I think Hice did a pretty good job selling the trip that resulted in the free kick to end the game. Maybe that was a makeup call for the possible miss moments earlier inside the box. Players today are very good at acting and tonight's crew overall did an excellent job letting the game be decided by the players.
allsportsfan4422
10-30-07, 10:56 PM
If you want to keep track of things that "could" have been called,
THere was another call that wasn't made in regulation play when the Elder goalie flatened one of the Mason players - not sure the player number but It was in the box, could have been a PK for Mason. I wasn't sure why the ref didn't call that one, but there were equal incidents like that on both sides.
If anyone that was at the game that is a ref and saw it maybe you can explain why that one wasn't called.
I thought the refs did 100% better than last Saturday.
Both teams played really well tonight. Mason should be proud of their accomplishment and Elder I hope go far into the tournament.
Some observations...
1) Mason's lack of a throw-in was surprising to me. I'll agree with you there, but...
2) More surprising were Mason's corner kicks. (I'm surprised no one has commented on them.) Not one comes to mind where a true chance on goal was created. How a team "that good" does so poorly on corner kicks is beyond me.
3) Elder needs some conditioning and/or better/more substitutions. Panthers looked beat out there. Mason looked good.
4) Non-calls. Saw a few hand balls that were missed (how can we see them from the stands, but the center ref and linesmen kept missing them?); a ball headed out of bounds by a Mason player and the throw in was awarded to Mason (huh?); the near-yellow-card tackle by Elder on the short Mason kid up front (got ball first, but then cleats went up to the knees -- the kid was down for some time); the obvious shove in the back by Mason inside the box (should have been a PK), especially when so many ticky-tack "hands on the back / little shoves" were called all game long...
5) Why does Elder share one big bottle of water?
6) Mason was SKILL-ful. Very, very good team. Wish I could have done stuff like that when I was in high school.
7) Mason's cheering section's lack of originality ("We have girls!").
~Anonymous~
10-31-07, 04:57 AM
Regardless of whether the USA chant had racial undertones or not, I think it really reveals the class and ingorance of the Elder Fans when they were yelling things like "get a Green Card" and "you f****** immigrant go back to Afghanistan". Niro was born in the US btw and his parents are from Sri Lanka. Good luck to Elder in the tournament, but their fan's lack of class is appalling.
THere was another call that wasn't made in regulation play when the Elder goalie flatened one of the Mason players - not sure the player number but It was in the box, could have been a PK for Mason. I wasn't sure why the ref didn't call that one, but there were equal incidents like that on both sides.
If anyone that was at the game that is a ref and saw it maybe you can explain why that one wasn't called.
I think the play that you are talking about is when the keeper came out toward the top of the box, jumped over top of the Mason player and cleared the ball with his fists.
Usually those plays will not get called unless the keeper just blatently takes the player out. The keeper came out, made a somewhat straight jump over the striker, played the ball first, and then contact was made. The Mason player didn't even really jump or try for the ball once he realized that the keeper was jumping up behind him.
One other reason that this play wasn't called (and maybe the other that the Elder fans want) is because the ref will look at the play and decide if the play was a legitimate goal scoring opportunity. This play definitly was not, but there would be more of an argument on the "take down in front of the net" that happened at the other end of the field.
I believe it was a good decision on the ref's part to not call both fouls so that the game wasn't decided on a PK.
He allowed them to play all night long and that is how the game was won, by the players playing and deciding it themselves.
Regardless of whether the USA chant had racial undertones or not, I think it really reveals the class and ingorance of the Elder Fans when they were yelling things like "get a Green Card" and "you f****** immigrant go back to Afghanistan". Niro was born in the US btw and his parents are from Sri Lanka. Good luck to Elder in the tournament, but their fan's lack of class is appalling.
Please. Assuming these really DID happen, that means you were sitting VERY close to the Elder cheering section. If you were sitting that close to the cheering section, that means you were on the Elder side. If you were on the Elder side, then you just lumped yourself into the "classless" fans that you mentioned in your post.
The fact that you know so much about Niro (a VERY good player, by the way) leads me to think you're a Mason fan... who sits ALL the way across the field with other Mason fans.
Bottom line... Cheering section didn't chant these things. You didn't hear them. Making things up is weak.
phatneff
10-31-07, 08:03 AM
Ok, here is my take, as I was the AR on the Mason side.
1. There were no "handling" (not hand ball, as handling is a verb) calls that should have been made from what I saw. Anything that may have resembled handling was incidental contact.
2. The foul to the Mason player that wasn't called regarding the cleats being up resulting in his injury was not seen by me. I was watching the offside line and glanced over just as he got taken out so I didn't see clearly what happened. Therefore, i didn't raise my flag. The play ultimately resulted in the Mason goal.
3. Yes, there were some questionable no calls inside the box and/or just outside of it. However, as a referee in a game like that, you don't want to call a PK if it is not a blatant foul. That's not to say that it will never be called and you can basically murder someone in the box, but as SOREF said, you don't want to have something like that decide the game if it was agressive play.
4. The supposed foul on the Elder GK where he came out and took out the Mason player while clearing the ball was not a foul. The GK has every right to the ball as a field player. However, because he can use his hands, he has more leniancy for going for the ball. He cleary made every attempt at the ball and not the player, so that would never be called. I'm a GK, too, and I would do that every time without worrying about a call.
5. Speaking of GK.......the Mason GK made some pretty obvious fouls of his own that I saw but not in my jurisdiction to call. For example, on set pieces and/or corner kicks, the Elder player that stood in front of the Mason GK was continuously pushed out of the way by the Mason GK. To the Elder guy's credit, he didn't complain about it at all and continued to play.
6. Regarding the student cheering sections, the Mason kids weren't nearly as innocent as one may think. They were making some rather line-crossing comments themselves. The funny part is that they couldn't get off of Elder #4's yellow shoes. They wouldn't constantly make comments about them. Stupid, but funny.
7. I have officiated with that center ref before in a late round match a few years back, and he is just as consistent now as he was then. I wouldn't give one complaint about him at all.
Observation #8...
Who was working the PA system?
Mason throw in: "THROW-IN MASON!!!"
Elder throw in: "Throw in Elder... sigh."
Mason corner kick: "CORNER KICK COMETS!!!!!!"
Elder corner kick: <cricket> ... <cricket>
Had I known a Mason community member was working the PA, I would have brought my HOA dues and paid them at the gate (I'm a month behind). ;)
PantherDad
10-31-07, 10:06 AM
Regardless of whether the USA chant had racial undertones or not, I think it really reveals the class and ingorance of the Elder Fans when they were yelling things like "get a Green Card" and "you f****** immigrant go back to Afghanistan". Niro was born in the US btw and his parents are from Sri Lanka. Good luck to Elder in the tournament, but their fan's lack of class is appalling.
My son plays for Elder and i was sitting by the student cheering section and i did not hear anything about "green cards" or "you f****** immigrant go back to Afghanistan". I did hear the "USA, USA" chant and that was stopeed by our AD. The Mason student section was just as bad with their verbal shots too. I went over to the concession stand at halftime (I was wearing a Elder sweatshirt) and i had 3-4 F-Bombs lobbed my way by Mason students.
It goes both ways...Just because your team lost a very close battle between two very good teams doesn't mean you have to take shots at the Elder fans in general. I love how some people will make cr@p up to make other schools look bad just to make themselves feel better. Go stomp on some more over-ripened grapes....
phatneff
10-31-07, 10:09 AM
Observation #8...
Who was working the PA system?
Mason throw in: "THROW-IN MASON!!!"
Elder throw in: "Throw in Elder... sigh."
Mason corner kick: "CORNER KICK COMETS!!!!!!"
Elder corner kick: <cricket> ... <cricket>
Had I known a Mason community member was working the PA, I would have brought my HOA dues and paid them at the gate (I'm a month behind). ;)
Actually, it was a Princeton guy. My guess is that he showed more emphasis towards the Mason crowd because they were the home team and the higher seed. Just my opinion.
PantherDad
10-31-07, 10:25 AM
Actually, it was a Princeton guy. My guess is that he showed more emphasis towards the Mason crowd because they were the home team and the higher seed. Just my opinion.
Phatneff-
Were you on the Mason side or the Elder side of the field? There were at least three penalties that could/should of been called on Mason in the box. The one at the end of regulation on Meyer was blatant and was a terrible no call. I can see not wanting to have a game decided by a penalty kick, but that's not a good reason to eat your whistle when it was that blatant of a foul. A penalty is still a penalty no matter if it happens in the first half or when there's 5 minutes to go in a tight game. JMHO...
phatneff
10-31-07, 10:56 AM
Phatneff-
Were you on the Mason side or the Elder side of the field? There were at least three penalties that could/should of been called on Mason in the box. The one at the end of regulation on Meyer was blatant and was a terrible no call. I can see not wanting to have a game decided by a penalty kick, but that's not a good reason to eat your whistle when it was that blatant of a foul. A penalty is still a penalty no matter if it happens in the first half or when there's 5 minutes to go in a tight game. JMHO...
Read my first post. You'll know where I was.
What people don't understand is that there is an unwritten rule regarding the penalty box, so to speak. Basically, it is that if it's not necessary to call the foul, then don't. Don't get me wrong, though. I've called my share of PK's before. But, in a game that's as physical as it was last night, those fouls will not get called. I wasn't the center referee, so I don't know what was going on in his mind, but he was letting the physical play continue, so my guess is that is what he was doing.
The other thing is that I am not supposed to watch for fouls as an AR as my primary focus. I'm to stay on the offside line and watch that. Secondary calls are for out of bounds and tertiary calls are for fouls. There was no way that I was going to call any foul in the box unless it was worthy of a booking.
"...but he was letting the physical play continue, so my guess is that is what he was doing."
Physical play... let it go.
Ticky-tack hands on your back... whistle comes out.
Hmmmmm??? :Ohno:
PantherDad
10-31-07, 11:18 AM
[QUOTE=phatneff;2758021]Read my first post. You'll know where I was.
Gotcha...I just re-read your first post. I'm not faulting you, I just wasn't impressed with the center ref and his lack of calls. It seemed like he did not want to make a call in the box, but then he would make up for the no-call with a questionable penalty outside of the box. I thought he did this on the winning goal penalty kick on Mason outside the box. He could of called one on Mason inside the box right before that play when a Mason kid shoulder tackled an Elder player when he was getting ready to shoot.
phatneff
10-31-07, 12:07 PM
Gentlemen,
We can go back and forth about this until the GMC wins a championship (ha! just kidding), but until you are actually out there with the whistle in your mouth, there really isn't much more to say about it. The ref didn't win or lose the game for either team. It's just the way that it went. Given, yes, I would have made some calls he didn't and wouldn't have made some calls he did, but that's up to the discretion of that individual. It's one thing to know the Laws of the Game, but another thing in how to apply them. Some are different than others, but as long as they are consistent, it is up to the players to adjust to it.
wrigley
10-31-07, 12:42 PM
Gentlemen,
We can go back and forth about this until the GMC wins a championship (ha! just kidding), but until you are actually out there with the whistle in your mouth, there really isn't much more to say about it. The ref didn't win or lose the game for either team. It's just the way that it went. Given, yes, I would have made some calls he didn't and wouldn't have made some calls he did, but that's up to the discretion of that individual. It's one thing to know the Laws of the Game, but another thing in how to apply them. Some are different than others, but as long as they are consistent, it is up to the players to adjust to it.
Are you trying to say that refs ar human. That's crazy. :angel:
envelope
10-31-07, 12:52 PM
Oh brother.....so because some high school kids cheered something stupid all of Elder fan's lack class.
What was with the stupid signs Mason had? What does 'Panthers take Bombers to prom' mean?
Or the stupid 'Purple Pansies' and 'We have girls' cheers.
Was Niro wearing a sign? Just curious??? Pretty cruel to pick out one individual and treat him like a dog. :confused:
Soccaroo
10-31-07, 12:53 PM
Observation #8...
Who was working the PA system?
Mason throw in: "THROW-IN MASON!!!"
Elder throw in: "Throw in Elder... sigh."
Mason corner kick: "CORNER KICK COMETS!!!!!!"
Elder corner kick: <cricket> ... <cricket>
Had I known a Mason community member was working the PA, I would have brought my HOA dues and paid them at the gate (I'm a month behind). ;)
The PA guy was from Princeton.
Soccaroo
10-31-07, 01:02 PM
The PA guy was from Princeton.
Sorry Bill, I guess you knew that already.
So many Freshmen, so little time...
IrishFire
10-31-07, 01:19 PM
Elder scored on a nice attack which never should have happened. I am not sure if it was #12 or #10 (Meyer) for Elder that was clearly tripped and drug down in the box....no call was made.
Did you ever hear of ADVANTAGE? The ref will not call a foul if it appears that the team that was fouled has maintained advantage. If the anticipated advantage does not develop he can still call the foul.
If a goal was ultimately scored by Elder on the play it sounds like they maintained ADVANTAGE!
PantherDad
10-31-07, 01:50 PM
Did you ever hear of ADVANTAGE? The ref will not call a foul if it appears that the team that was fouled has maintained advantage. If the anticipated advantage does not develop he can still call the foul.
If a goal was ultimately scored by Elder on the play it sounds like they maintained ADVANTAGE!
Meyer had a huge "advantage" of just putting a shot straight in until he was tripped. Elder just got lucky that the ball made it's way over to an open player. There was no advantage whatsoever after the trip, just a lucky break for Elder IMHO...
i don't understand why you guys are whinning...in case you didn't know Elder still won the game 2-1
Elder should of had one PK but the referee didn't call it and the ball was sent across the box for the goal.
The other foul that some of you are referring to was just outside the top of the box on Corbett. It could of been a foul or it couldn't of been. It looked like the mason kid got a touch on the ball with his outstretched leg and collided into the back of the kid at the same time.
ColerainWinsAgain
10-31-07, 02:59 PM
3. Yes, there were some questionable no calls inside the box and/or just outside of it. However, as a referee in a game like that, you don't want to call a PK if it is not a blatant foul. That's not to say that it will never be called and you can basically murder someone in the box, but as SOREF said, you don't want to have something like that decide the game if it was agressive play.
4. The supposed foul on the Elder GK where he came out and took out the Mason player while clearing the ball was not a foul. The GK has every right to the ball as a field player. However, because he can use his hands, he has more leniancy for going for the ball. He cleary made every attempt at the ball and not the player, so that would never be called. I'm a GK, too, and I would do that every time without worrying about a call.
5. Speaking of GK.......the Mason GK made some pretty obvious fouls of his own that I saw but not in my jurisdiction to call. For example, on set pieces and/or corner kicks, the Elder player that stood in front of the Mason GK was continuously pushed out of the way by the Mason GK. To the Elder guy's credit, he didn't complain about it at all and continued to play.
I saw exactly what you are talking about... The Elder goalie was physical in going for the ball while the Mason goalie was putting his arms in the Elder players back and fully extending them... I was actually surprised none of the coaches/captains politely asked any of you guys to keep an eye out for it.
Oh, and I didn't see this mentioned before, but was I the only one that was amazed on the early free kick for Mason when it hit the crossbar and the Elder goalie jerked his head around like he didn't even see it coming.
PantherDad
10-31-07, 03:07 PM
Oh, and I didn't see this mentioned before, but was I the only one that was amazed on the early free kick for Mason when it hit the crossbar and the Elder goalie jerked his head around like he didn't even see it coming.[/QUOTE]
I don't think he had time to blink...That shot looked like it came out of cannon!
Regardless of whether the USA chant had racial undertones or not, I think it really reveals the class and ingorance of the Elder Fans when they were yelling things like "get a Green Card" and "you f****** immigrant go back to Afghanistan". Niro was born in the US btw and his parents are from Sri Lanka. Good luck to Elder in the tournament, but their fan's lack of class is appalling.
As a neutral attendee of the game I think the same could be said to the saintly fans of Mason. The cheers and the banners were clearly out of line. Don't they say those in a glass house should not throw stones?
phatneff
10-31-07, 03:37 PM
I saw exactly what you are talking about... The Elder goalie was physical in going for the ball while the Mason goalie was putting his arms in the Elder players back and fully extending them... I was actually surprised none of the coaches/captains politely asked any of you guys to keep an eye out for it.
Oh, and I didn't see this mentioned before, but was I the only one that was amazed on the early free kick for Mason when it hit the crossbar and the Elder goalie jerked his head around like he didn't even see it coming.
You are correct. They said nothing, surprisingly.
Let me tell you about that shot that hit the crossbar...........I was behind the play at midfield watching it (as the sweeper was at midfield, too). That shot had absolutely no spin on it whatsoever and it was dancing like a Tim Wakefield knuckleball. Combine that with the velocity of it and that keeper had no chance on it at all!!! He just stood there like he saw a ghost! Unfortunately for the kicker, that shot didn't go in.
ColerainWinsAgain
10-31-07, 03:39 PM
I don't think he had time to blink...That shot looked like it came out of cannon!
All I know is that I was speechless... It was definitely one of those "Oh sh*t" moments... luckily it didn't result in a goal.
envelope
10-31-07, 03:52 PM
You took the USA cheer wrong. I am sure they ment USA as in United Soccer Association
Even you don't beleive that.
Mason fans in the parking lot, young fans, yelled at elder parents in Purple, F#$#$# you and FL#$#$K Elder. The parents from Elder took it in stride and just stared at the boys yelling, this is a fact, they just let it go. It was a terrible thing to see, much like the barbsr directed towards Niro. Niro has class, didn't let it get to him. I think he put it off to stupidity just as the Elder aldults did. Kudos Niro, Kudos Elder parents. No winner here, just high school stupidity. It went BOTH WAYS, let it go guys.
Elder Alum
10-31-07, 03:55 PM
Can someone explain why on two occasions the linesman, from the Mason fan side, walked up to the Mason goalie and patted him on the butt? He made no attempt to hide the fact that he obviously was a friend of his. I thought that was inappropriate.
In response to Anonymous, You obviously were too high on your horse to see or hear what was being said from your side of the stands. I wonder if other predominately male organizations such as the US Marines or US Army would appreciate the comments made by the Masonites.
msnsoccer05
10-31-07, 04:28 PM
wow elder get used to it...u know as soon as u go to a catholic all boys school that ur going to get homo slurs thrown ur way...i dont agree with it but it just comes with the territory...but u cant tell me mason is the only school thats called u guys gay namesand made homosexual comments towards u...i felt that the USA chant was below classless especially to a kid like niro who might be the nicest guy on this earth not to mention one of the classiest individuals i kno... i think that elder might be the sorest winners ive ever met...but w/e...atleast u have jesus
SoccerFanGMC
10-31-07, 04:31 PM
Maybe the fans on this thread should have went to the West Beavercreek game. The fans cheered for their teams! The Players played hard! While the refereeing was not the best, as usual it was bad for both sides. It did not decide the outcome of the game! Just a well played game with two very good teams and the game could have went either way.
Let's let it go, so congrats to both teams for a great season and good luck to Elder in the Regional Finals!
I'm a little surprised at how both sides are crying about how many penalty kicks should have been awarded! Have people gone completely nuts! I didn't see a single incident in a box that was worthy of a PK in a playoff game.
This isn't some Saturday night non league game where a hack ref can decide the outcome of the game! Nor are these 6 - 1 blow out games where a PK doesn't mean anything! Last night was a Regional Semifinal game for crying out loud. Act like you guys have been there before!
I come from the school of thought that you don't award a penalty kick in the playoffs unless the offensive player has the ball at his feet and is TACKLED as he gets ready to shoot. Haven't you noticed these games are decided by 1 - 0 & 2 - 1 scores. Had the ref last night awarded a PK to either side, he was handing them the win and what a shame that would be!
Were there some close calls in the box? Yes, but none of them warranted a PK in a low scoring playoff game. I'll say it again, the reffing last night was outstanding!
As for the cheering sections, I love the school spirit but adult supervision is needed and both Mason & Elder are responsible for policing their kids. I'm glad the "USA" chant was stopped and I realize kids will be kids. One thing to keep in mind though is that the parochial schools have had these huge cheering sections for years and they're expert at getting under your skin. It's been more recent that public schools have adopted the practice. Last year for instance, Fairfield had a huge student section in their run through the state championship game. The sense I get is that the public's are quick to go over the line as a result of being baited by the parochial cheering sections. But ultimately it comes down to adults from the respective school districts taking the lead in keeping things under control.
Well, good luck Elder as I hope a Cincinnati area school can bring home the trophy.
Statechamps02
10-31-07, 07:08 PM
wow elder get used to it...u know as soon as u go to a catholic all boys school that ur going to get homo slurs thrown ur way...i dont agree with it but it just comes with the territory...but u cant tell me mason is the only school thats called u guys gay namesand made homosexual comments towards u...i felt that the USA chant was below classless especially to a kid like niro who might be the nicest guy on this earth not to mention one of the classiest individuals i kno... i think that elder might be the sorest winners ive ever met...but w/e...atleast u have jesus
I agree with you in the fact that all boy catholic schools have had homosexual cheers thrown their way. Let me tell ya, it gets OLD. Think of something new. But the banners took it over the top. As far as the USA chant, how is that any less classy than homosexual slurs?? Both are on the same level. Both are classless. Both will be used. Both student sections are obviously filled with students! Mason was chanting for Meyer as well. Elder's AD put a stop to it. Mason's AD did not or was not in attendance. After that being said, along with other people's comments(especially phatneff's about not complaining on the field), how can you say Elder is the sorest winners you have ever met?
I thought both teams played with a great amount of class. Barely any talking to the refs or the other team. Cheering sections will be cheering sections.
EHS 2001
10-31-07, 08:05 PM
2) More surprising were Mason's corner kicks. (I'm surprised no one has commented on them.) Not one comes to mind where a true chance on goal was created. How a team "that good" does so poorly on corner kicks is beyond me.
Big time ditto on that. Mason had what seemed like a dozen corner kicks in the second half and I can't really remember one of them creating a scoring opportunity.
Elder controlled the ball a good deal less during the match than Mason did, but the Panthers made more of their limited opportunities to score.
SoccerFanGMC
10-31-07, 08:20 PM
Big time ditto on that. Mason had what seemed like a dozen corner kicks in the second half and I can't really remember one of them creating a scoring opportunity.
Elder controlled the ball a good deal less during the match than Mason did, but the Panthers made more of their limited opportunities to score.
This really does not surprise me. Mason is a finess team starting with Niro. While they have many with great skill, most of those players do not like or can take a lot of physical contact which is what you get on corners.
This is one of the reasons I am not surprised that Elder won even though Mason controlled the ball more.....
titan32
10-31-07, 08:48 PM
does anybody know where Niro is considering going to college at? I'm sure he's probably getting a ton of looks. Just curious if he's looking to stay local or go elsewhere.
SoccerFanGMC
10-31-07, 08:51 PM
does anybody know where Niro is considering going to college at? I'm sure he's probably getting a ton of looks. Just curious if he's looking to stay local or go elsewhere.
From what I understand he is a thinking person - yes more concerned with the right academic opportunity. A great choice for someone with his SAT scores!
sweetsoccer208
11-01-07, 06:38 AM
does anybody know where Niro is considering going to college at? I'm sure he's probably getting a ton of looks. Just curious if he's looking to stay local or go elsewhere.
Niro's first priority is and will always be academics. I know he is looking to play at Case Western, Washington U in St. Louis, and possible Ohio State if he can get good scholarship money.
SoccerFanGMC
11-01-07, 07:49 AM
Niro's first priority is and will always be academics. I know he is looking to play at Case Western, Washington U in St. Louis, and possible Ohio State if he can get good scholarship money.
Thought I heard that Ohio State told him he needs more bulk to play in the Big 10, so not sure that is an option.
phatneff
11-01-07, 08:07 AM
Can someone explain why on two occasions the linesman, from the Mason fan side, walked up to the Mason goalie and patted him on the butt? He made no attempt to hide the fact that he obviously was a friend of his. I thought that was inappropriate.
In response to Anonymous, You obviously were too high on your horse to see or hear what was being said from your side of the stands. I wonder if other predominately male organizations such as the US Marines or US Army would appreciate the comments made by the Masonites.
LOL...........LOL, now THAT is funny!! Dude, that was me. Now, if you want to insinuate something, go right ahead. It doesn't bother me, and it fits right along with this thread.
Now, if you want to know what REALLY happened, here it is: A shot was made on the Mason goal and it was followed up by the players. Those players eventually took the goal off of the line since they are portable goals. Before play was restarted, I went over to make sure the goal was back to where it should have been. The Mason keeper told me that he fixed it and I told him, jokingly, that I didn't trust him and that I wanted to make sure (there was one hit on the HIP). After I fixed it, I told him that I didn't want him bitching at me if a goal was counted because the goal wasn't on the line correctly, and then I headed back to my position (and there was the second hit on the HIP). I've only seen that cat once, and that was one I reffed their game earlier in the year.
Nice try on trying to make a big deal out of nothing. Like I said, it goes right along with this thread.
phatneff
11-01-07, 08:16 AM
Uhhhh no.....it was well inside the box and it most certainly was a foul. You don't push someone in the back when they are shooting and not get called.
No whining here.....just stating fact. At that point the game was 1-1 and the shot that Elder did not get, because of a foul that was not called, could have been the difference in the game.
Darth, or Luke I mean, until you become a certified referee, you will not understand the "ethics" of calling fouls where (penalty box) and when (late in a tournament round). LOTR explained it pretty well, so I won't go into it again.
Do you see those fouls called in the World Cup games? I didn't think so.
Darth, or Luke I mean, until you become a certified referee, you will not understand the "ethics" of calling fouls where (penalty box) and when (late in a tournament round). LOTR explained it pretty well, so I won't go into it again.
Do you see those fouls called in the World Cup games? I didn't think so.
At this point, after reading what you have had to say, I'm convinced that you felt it WAS a foul (the push in the back when it was 1-1) and that you WOULD have called it had it been 3 minutes into the 2nd half instead of that late in the game.
Ethics. Pshaw! A foul is a foul is a foul... unless it's a fowl (i.e. center ref). (I am a slick punster, you know.) I've played soccer. I've coached soccer. I've ref'd soccer. Been around the game for 25+ years now. (I'm hoping that's enough "street cred" for me to form this opinion.)
phatneff
11-01-07, 08:37 AM
At this point, after reading what you have had to say, I'm convinced that you felt it WAS a foul (the push in the back when it was 1-1) and that you WOULD have called it had it been 3 minutes into the 2nd half instead of that late in the game.
Ethics. Pshaw! A foul is a foul is a foul... unless it's a fowl (i.e. center ref). (I am a slick punster, you know.)
Think what you want, but I would NOT have called it, either. Why would I be defending the fowl's decision on not calling a foul if I would have called it???
Let the kids play it out. If it continues to happen, then the PK will be warranted.
IrishFire
11-01-07, 09:05 AM
Meyer had a huge "advantage" of just putting a shot straight in until he was tripped. Elder just got lucky that the ball made it's way over to an open player. There was no advantage whatsoever after the trip, just a lucky break for Elder IMHO...
Did the play result in a goal or not? How much more advantage do you want than that? The actual player who was fouled does not have to maintain the advantage as long as his team does there should be no call. Are you the Meyer kid's dad and upset that he didn't get credit for the goal? If that's the case relax, the kid already has Elder's scoring record.
With all the whinning by Elder fans on this thread you would think Elder lost the game. Get over it and move on.
PantherDad
11-01-07, 10:01 AM
Did the play result in a goal or not? How much more advantage do you want than that? The actual player who was fouled does not have to maintain the advantage as long as his team does there should be no call. Are you the Meyer kid's dad and upset that he didn't get credit for the goal? If that's the case relax, the kid already has Elder's scoring record.
With all the whinning by Elder fans on this thread you would think Elder lost the game. Get over it and move on.
Sorry, but i'm not Anthony's Dad and his Dad would not be worried about him not scoring that goal.
I'm not whining about the game (my team won), all i'm saying is I think when a player is intentionally fouled in the box to prevent a goal that foul should be called! If a team notices the ref not calling it they will continue to do it throughout the game.
Yes, Elder did score soon after the foul, but the clear advantage was taken away from them with the initial foul. They got a lucky bounce!!!
ColerainWinsAgain
11-01-07, 10:08 AM
You are correct. They said nothing, surprisingly.
Let me tell you about that shot that hit the crossbar...........I was behind the play at midfield watching it (as the sweeper was at midfield, too). That shot had absolutely no spin on it whatsoever and it was dancing like a Tim Wakefield knuckleball. Combine that with the velocity of it and that keeper had no chance on it at all!!! He just stood there like he saw a ghost! Unfortunately for the kicker, that shot didn't go in.
So that's why he just stood there... I couldn't tell from where I was sitting, it's just weird to sit there and see a goalie whip around when the ball hits the post like he didn't even see it. I thought maybe he was still directing players around or something, thanks for that info!
theozone
11-01-07, 10:16 AM
I wasn't at this game Pantherdad, but reading the posts I gathered the ref allowed advantage to play out...so you thought the ref should have disallowed the goal and given the Elder player a pk...wouldn't you rather have the goal?
PantherDad
11-01-07, 12:45 PM
I wasn't at this game Pantherdad, but reading the posts I gathered the ref allowed advantage to play out...so you thought the ref should have disallowed the goal and given the Elder player a pk...wouldn't you rather have the goal?
The goal didn't happen immediately after the foul. The Elder player would have scored a goal if the foul didn't accure. The problem i have with the play is that Elder had to go continue to play after the foul when they would of scored on the original play. The advantage was cleary taken away from Elder on the original foul and they got a lucky break that the ball found a open player. That's all i'm saying...
phatneff
11-01-07, 01:24 PM
The advantage was cleary taken away from Elder on the original foul and they got a lucky break that the ball found a open player. That's all i'm saying...
Well, no offense, but you just proved yourself wrong. There is no such thing as a "lucky break" when the advantage is being played. That's the whole reason that an advantage is played out because the "fouled" team remained in possession of the ball.
Look guys, again you can go back and forth about it forever, but the real answer is that fouls and/or non-fouls are NOT cut and dry, black and white, etc. That's why some officials get to where they are because they can leverage the action to make the proper calls most of the time. We all know that not everyone is going to be happy with what is called or not called, so instead of constantly whining about it, or trying to make a point, or getting the last word in, you need to accept it for what it is and move on. There is absolutely ZERO chance that that specific no call will be reversed, as well as there is absolutely ZERO chance that any call or no call will be reversed because a parent, coach, or player was yelling about it.
Just like I say in my pregame to the players..............I don't tell you guys how to play the game, so don't tell me how to ref. That same mantra goes for every official out there. It also applies to the coaches and parents. We don't tell them how to coach or be a good parent, so don't tell us how to be a good official. You are supposed to be watching the play of the game, not what the ref will call or not call next. Nothing will change so as Taylor says on Kid Nation...................DEAL WITH IT!!
NEXT!!!!!
ColerainWinsAgain
11-01-07, 01:57 PM
I didn't realize we were talking about the World Cup. Now that I have read this post I have come to the conlusion that you are a piss-poor ref.
I have never heard a ref say that you don't call a foul in the box, that is ridiculous. What the heck does ethics have to do with it. Proper ethics would say that a call is a call no matter where it happens.
I played defense.....I would have loved to have had you for a ref. As soon as I figured out you were letting fouls in the box go un-called, well.....let's just say I would have taken advantage of that.
It is sad to sit hear and realize that Elder could have lost a game because a ref willingly admits he did not make a call because it was in the box near the end of a playoff game.
You should not be reffing.......
Yes, we are talking about the World Cup to these kids.
If you pay attention to soccer there are always multiple fouls committed in the box, but you just don't call them. If you called every foul in the box the same as you called it on the rest of the field the scores would be in double digits every game.
I played defense and took advantage of this. You just have to know what you can get away with, I always played straight up in the box but alot more physical then outside the box, why? Because you just don't give away penalty kicks unless it's a really bad foul.
Actually it was a good no call... I don't care what anyone says, I would much rather have a controversial no call then a controversial call. Especially late in the game in the box.
ColerainWinsAgain
11-01-07, 02:00 PM
I didn't realize that refs had the discression of calling or not calling a penalty based on where it occurs on the field at a particular point in the game. :rolleyes:
They absolutely do. You don't have to call a game by the books, everything is at the refs discression as long as it is within the rules. They do have the right to let the play continue and thats what he chose to do.
IrishFire
11-01-07, 02:15 PM
I played defense.....I would have loved to have had you for a ref. As soon as I figured out you were letting fouls in the box go un-called, well.....let's just say I would have taken advantage of that
:laugh:
We're not talking about your CRC beer league here.
phatneff
11-01-07, 02:29 PM
Wow, Luke!! Take it easy! You're going to bust a vein!!
I've said before that I'm not going to mention my credentials, but I will have you know that I am highly respected. I don't get to be on a state final crew if I suck.
Anyway, if you think you're so knowledgeable about the game, and not just the rules, as anyone can pass a test, then get out here and better us by joining the referee world. I've also stated before that there is a difference in KNOWING the rules and APPLYING the rules. It's obvious that you don't know much about the APPLYING part.
Good luck studying and I'll see you on the pitch next year.
phatneff
11-01-07, 02:36 PM
Let me know if you are reffing the Elder/Beavercreek game. If so I'd like to forward this thread to Elder's coaching staff. They can let their defense know that inside of 5 minutes anything goes inside the box. ;)
SWEET! We're on to Page 4 now!!
I wish I was reffing that game because I would definitely want you to forward that to them. It'll make you really look like an idiot seeing how you don't seem to want to read my posts.
Who did you play for Luke?
ColerainWinsAgain
11-01-07, 03:02 PM
A FOUL is a FOUL, do you people know nothing about the game? A ref DOES NOT have the discression of not making a call because of where it occurs and when it occurs.
Good Lord....this is truely amazing that people can make posts that are so ludicrous.
ColerainWinsAgain....were you at the game? We are not talking about a ticky-tack call in the box. We are talking about a blatant trip and blatant shove from behind. I am sure if it had been against your Cardinals you would have wanted both calls.
Why am I not surprised.........
I was at the game, I was rooting for the Panthers, and I didn't get upset at the call... The only calls I was looking for that game were the constant shove offs by the Mason goalie, other then that it was a well officiated game from my POV.
As far as the student fans going back and forth...it was great to see at least that so many fans did show up and support their programs. Reading posts before the game, the Mason fans were taking great pride in their vocal support during their Colerain match, and they came out in full force also for Elder.
After sitting on the Elder side and looking at the huge gay reference banner for a couple of hours, I knew that eventually the Elder kids would retaliate, and unfortunatley they did against the Mason defender. (They started up the USA cheer only after the Mason kids led a cheer about Elder star Anthony Meyer).
Despite that, it was a great match. Well played, well coached, and I think, well officiated.
Now I only hope my Highlanders will find a new coach that will bring Oak Hills back to that level.
epanther08
11-01-07, 03:19 PM
OK!! This game is over now so let's make a few more statements and move on.
1.) Mason played a ---- of a game and it definately hurt them to not create opportunities off throw ins and corner kicks. They were all very skilled and very quick especially mid-field. Niro played a great game and Elder is deeply sorry for what was said by the cheering section.
2.) Elder needs a stronger bench. They looked dead towards the end of each half. It's crucial to sub throughout the game, especially when you make it this far into the tournament. When you're playing such high-quality teams your players need to have the energy to go all-out the entire game because one person who doesn't get back in time can ruin the game. Too many possible or lost scoring opportunities could be lost because Elder is so tired. If they had a few more players who could step up and go in for a little they would be an unbelievable team.
3.) I completely agree that there should be more freedom in the box. Everything goes in the box for the most part unless it was completely blatant. The two no calls that have been debated should've been called(at least one). You have to call something that blatant especially when it happens twice in a game. Elder got lucky on the first no call and ednded up with a scoring opportunity but they were not given the advantage, the ref chose to just not make that call and eventually Elder found the ball on their foot and put it in the net. Other than that and a few controversial out of bounds calls i thought the officiatiing was great.
4.) Both cheering sections lacked class, NO DOUBT. Elder knows not to start cheers like that and it should never happen again but Mason cannot complain at all. Both cheering sections were saying innappropriate things the whole game. And when you make posters like that..... You're just asking to be torn apart by Elder. Yeah we're used to the homosexual cheers and all but doesn't mean you can make a big --- poster about it so don't complain about anything Elder said or did because you did the exact same thing, that's just how it goes in a high school cheering section. ---- happens so get over it. But nice confederate flag as well Mason.
Now let's stop talking about this game and worry about the next one. Great game to both teams and GO PANTHERS!
A FOUL is a FOUL, do you people know nothing about the game? A ref DOES NOT have the discression of not making a call because of where it occurs and when it occurs.
.........
I disagree 100% here! I've never played the game nor reffed it but in nearly 20 years of watching soccer at all levels (World Cup; MLS; National Team Qualifiers; International Friendlies; Youth Leagues in England; Club and High school soccer) refs differentiate between fouls in the field of play and in the box. And thank goodness they do! Are you trying to tell me that the typical foul called at midfield should result in a PK if called in the box! Wow, soccer would be very interesting with 10 - 20 pk's per game!
The box is different then the field of play. For one, there's a guy allowed to use his hands in the box. This alone completely changes the dynamics of what is a foul and not. The box is also much more congested and it gets especially packed in during throw ins, corner kicks and free kicks. The dynamics of play in the box are completely different for all these reasons and thus fouls can not be called the same way as on the rest of the field. I can't believe we're arguing over something so self evident!
If I was an Elder fan I wouldn't be worried about PK's not awarded in a game I just won, rather I would worry about the lack of depth which had my guys unable to move at the end of the game and how that might affect the next couple of games where the oppenant is likely to have multiple top notch subs.
kyrbaco
11-01-07, 04:02 PM
I am a ref and way to many refs don't call fouls in the box because "the game shouldn't be won that way". Well sorry but that's cr@p. If there is a blatant foul in the box. It should be called. You can't change the rules because you don't want a game won or lost that way. Sorry but Luke's right!!! If you don't call these fouls in the box the defense will find out right away they can get away with it. You may be a "well respected ref" but your wrong.
Anyway, back to the game. I was talking to a friend today at work who is from Mason and he told me that last year the Mason boys coach coached the Mason girls. Now, I'm not trying to start anything but is it possible that the tactical decision to not use aggressive throw ins in favor of playing the ball to the feet was a result of this coach not appreciating/understanding the difference between the boys/girls games?
I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but the inability to execute throw ins into the box was a huge missed opportunity for Mason. My friend agreed and he thought it was a tactical decision NOT the lack of players that could throw it in.
I can think of only two reasons you wouldn't want to throw it into the box:
1) You are weak in the air and have a size disadvantage. My sense after seeing Mason 3 times this year is that they were okay in the air and they also had some big kids.
2) You are afraid of the counter attack coming off a poorly thrown in ball that is headed/kicked to midfield. Again, with Niro playing back on defense, I would have NO fear of the counter attack. I'm not sure I saw anybody get a ball by him.
Just was curious what others thought. Am I nuts or is there something to this?
I am a ref and way to many refs don't call fouls in the box because "the game shouldn't be won that way". Well sorry but that's cr@p. If there is a blatant foul in the box. It should be called. You can't change the rules because you don't want a game won or lost that way. Sorry but Luke's right!!! If you don't call these fouls in the box the defense will find out right away they can get away with it. You may be a "well respected ref" but your wrong.
Okay, so every foul you call in the field of play is "blatant". No one is suggesting that blatant fouls in the box shouldn't be awarded pk's, but in a game much of what is called in the field of play should never result in a PK.
On EVERY corner kick I've ever watched there is some pushing in the box by the defenders. That same pushing gets whistled as a foul 50% of the time in the field of play but NEVER in the box.
Fouls in the box and those in the field of play are different and should be called different.
kyrbaco
11-01-07, 04:21 PM
I'm not saying that. What I am saying is too many refs say they will not call fouls in the box because they don't want to award a pk because they don't want the game "won that way". If there is a blatant foul in the box then it needs to be called or defenders know they will get away with it. That's all. It's a judgement call period. but there are refs that won't call fouls in the box and that's cr@p!!!
I'm not saying that. What I am saying is too many refs say they will not call fouls in the box because they don't want to award a pk because they don't want the game "won that way". If there is a blatant foul in the box then it needs to be called or defenders know they will get away with it. That's all. It's a judgement call period. but there are refs that won't call fouls in the box and that's cr@p!!!
I don't know a single ref who has said that they would never call a foul in the box, and I don't think that is what phatneff was saying either.
One good description that I have heard a ref say is that a foul in the box better be a felony and not a misdemeanor. Many refs will not call a foul in the box to award a PK if they don't think that at that point or play that the offense had a legitimate goal scoring opportunity. Not what that play could have led to, but what was happening right there. Where the player was and which direction the player was facing is tow main factors of the call.
I was on a game last Tuesday night and the CR called a PK. The defender had jumped up to cut off a through ball and totally took out the striker keeping him from playing the ball right in the middle of the box while they were moving toward the goal. It was definitly the correct call to make.
The fact is that fouls are called differently inside the box compared to outside the box.
Some officials may think that a call needs to be made, but it doesn't warrant a PK. If the foul is close to the edge of the box, the foul can be called as it happened outside the box and issue a direct free kick. Or if that is not available, then if the ref things that he can sell it as a dangerous play, then he can issue an indirect free kick.
No matter how these situations are handled, someone is not going to be happy. It is not the refs job to try to keep everyone happy.
4.) Both cheering sections lacked class, NO DOUBT. Elder knows not to start cheers like that and it should never happen again but Mason cannot complain at all. Both cheering sections were saying innappropriate things the whole game. And when you make posters like that..... You're just asking to be torn apart by Elder. Yeah we're used to the homosexual cheers and all but doesn't mean you can make a big --- poster about it so don't complain about anything Elder said or did because you did the exact same thing, that's just how it goes in a high school cheering section. ---- happens so get over it. But nice confederate flag as well Mason.
Now let's stop talking about this game and worry about the next one. Great game to both teams and GO PANTHERS!
It was an English flag for one of Mason's players. His family is British.
Statechamps02
11-01-07, 09:03 PM
"Pound those -----cats" in size 10,000 font.
charlemurphy
11-01-07, 09:14 PM
Delete This Thread Now!!!!!!!!!
I go to Mason
11-01-07, 09:49 PM
Anyway, back to the game. I was talking to a friend today at work who is from Mason and he told me that last year the Mason boys coach coached the Mason girls. Now, I'm not trying to start anything but is it possible that the tactical decision to not use aggressive throw ins in favor of playing the ball to the feet was a result of this coach not appreciating/understanding the difference between the boys/girls games?
I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but the inability to execute throw ins into the box was a huge missed opportunity for Mason. My friend agreed and he thought it was a tactical decision NOT the lack of players that could throw it in.
I can think of only two reasons you wouldn't want to throw it into the box:
1) You are weak in the air and have a size disadvantage. My sense after seeing Mason 3 times this year is that they were okay in the air and they also had some big kids.
2) You are afraid of the counter attack coming off a poorly thrown in ball that is headed/kicked to midfield. Again, with Niro playing back on defense, I would have NO fear of the counter attack. I'm not sure I saw anybody get a ball by him.
Just was curious what others thought. Am I nuts or is there something to this?
Mason really doesn't have anyone that can throw the ball in that far so they really couldn't do anything with the throw ins. As far as Reedy is concerned, you can't say anything about his coaching style. His overall record and amount of GMC titles speaks for itself. His team went 17-1-2 this season, I'd say that's pretty successful. And no, I'm pretty sure they weren't afraid of a counter attack, they always kept the three backs back which is one thing I didn't understand because their outside backs were their biggest players yet they never sent them up....that's my only question???
Last post for me on this debate and then my horse is dead...
Trip/Push from behind by a defender inside the 18-yd line on the striker going to goal, 3 minutes into the 2nd half. Score is tied. Do you make the call?
Trip/Push from behind by a defender inside the 18-yd line on the striker going to goal, 3 minutes left in the 2nd half. Score is tied. Do you make the call?
One instance, you have 42 minutes left to play.
The other instance, you have had 42 minutes to play, and the ref "doesn't want the game decided on a PK."
What happens if a PK is awarded 3 minutes into the 2nd half of a tied game and the score stands up? Didn't the ref DO just that? Or does the fact that a team has 42 minutes to tie it back up make a difference? Why doesn't that same difference stand if they already had 42 minutes to score in the first place.
Simply put, it sounds like a double standard.
A foul, is a foul, is a foul...
"Pound those -----cats" in size 10,000 font.
that sign was money
soccerfirst
11-02-07, 06:53 AM
.Ok after reading this thread this will be the last time I post or read yappi.
1. That was the best officiated game of the year. Were there some missed calls? Yes but he let the players decide the game and that is the best way to go about it. phatnef you all did a wonderful job.
2. Lotr10 come on are you really going to question a coach who was 17-1-2 on the year, and ranked 4th in the state? Mason plays their style of play they did the short throw in all year and it got them that far. The game was not decided by Mason's throw in. Coach Reedy coaches to his player’s strength. His players are great with the ball at their feet. So they put it there. If they had the players that were more successful lobbing balls in the box they would. You had two contrasting style of play that both teams executed very well. Elder plays the free kick and throw in style well while Mason plays the possession and build up style well. Congrats to Elder you got the best of my Comets on Tuesday.
3. Mason boys, you guys are the best group of players to be around, congratulations on a wonderful season, good luck in your future endeavors and stay in touch.
phatneff
11-02-07, 08:37 AM
Again, soref described it very well. Also again, I will say this..........if those "fouls" happen once, twice, or three times within different team's penalty boxes, they most likely won't be called fouls. But if the defensive team thinks that they can get away with playing overly aggressive and they keep doing it, a PK will most likely be called, no matter what the circumstances of the game are.
PK's are a privilege. They are not a right. You have to take into consideration that 90+% of the time there is going to be a PK, there will be a goal. So, when there is congestion and physical play in the box, most decent referees will not AWARD a PK for an incident. It most likely will have to be earned. That may not have sounded right, but i think you know what I mean.
I'm sorry Mr. Bill, but the statement "a foul is a foul is a foul" is not correct at all.
Just an FYI, too. The the two AR's for tomorrow's Elder/'Creek game are from Cincinnati while the CR is from Dayton. So if anybody is wondering about some home cooking, keep that into consideration.
PantherDad
11-02-07, 11:48 AM
PK's are a privilege. They are not a right. You have to take into consideration that 90+% of the time there is going to be a PK, there will be a goal. So, when there is congestion and physical play in the box, most decent referees will not AWARD a PK for an incident. It most likely will have to be earned. That may not have sounded right, but i think you know what I mean.
I'm sorry Mr. Bill, but the statement "a foul is a foul is a foul" is not correct at all.
I guess the Elder player didn't hit the ground hard enough in order to have the "privledge" to "earn" his PK after getting pushed in the back.
Sorry, Phatneff, but we'll agree to disagree on this one.
Statechamps02
11-02-07, 03:59 PM
Just an FYI, too. The the two AR's for tomorrow's Elder/'Creek game are from Cincinnati while the CR is from Dayton. So if anybody is wondering about some home cooking, keep that into consideration.
Well since Elder gets "home field advantage," BC gets a hometown ref. We'll see how it goes. Hopefully all is well.
Elder escaped on tuesday. There is no doubt in my mind that Mason was a better team but unfortunately in this fine sport, the best team doesnt always win.
I dont know anything about Beevercreek but I do know Elder is not very good and will lose.
Go Creek
Statechamps02
11-02-07, 10:35 PM
800fan...why don't you just stop posting?? A team that "isn't very good" doesn't make it to the regional finals. A team that has only lost 3 games doesn't qualify as a "not very good" team. I'm sure you weren't at the match against Mason. Both teams bring different qualities to the table. It was a very evenly played match. Both teams had equal chances. Mason had more possession, but wasn't that expected?? What wasn't expected, from you especially, was that Elder would net 2 goals. I bet you've only seen Elder play once or twice. Get over it. They beat an extremely good team. That amounts to at least a little respect from ppl like you that have disrepected Elder since day 1.
msnsoccer05
11-03-07, 08:24 AM
.Ok after reading this thread this will be the last time I post or read yappi.
1. That was the best officiated game of the year. Were there some missed calls? Yes but he let the players decide the game and that is the best way to go about it. phatnef you all did a wonderful job.
2. Lotr10 come on are you really going to question a coach who was 17-1-2 on the year, and ranked 4th in the state? Mason plays their style of play they did the short throw in all year and it got them that far. The game was not decided by Mason's throw in. Coach Reedy coaches to his player’s strength. His players are great with the ball at their feet. So they put it there. If they had the players that were more successful lobbing balls in the box they would. You had two contrasting style of play that both teams executed very well. Elder plays the free kick and throw in style well while Mason plays the possession and build up style well. Congrats to Elder you got the best of my Comets on Tuesday.
3. Mason boys, you guys are the best group of players to be around, congratulations on a wonderful season, good luck in your future endeavors and stay in touch.
very well said soccerfirst...probably the smartest post ive seen on here so far
.Ok after reading this thread this will be the last time I post or read yappi.
1. That was the best officiated game of the year. Were there some missed calls? Yes but he let the players decide the game and that is the best way to go about it. phatnef you all did a wonderful job.
2. Lotr10 come on are you really going to question a coach who was 17-1-2 on the year, and ranked 4th in the state? Mason plays their style of play they did the short throw in all year and it got them that far. The game was not decided by Mason's throw in. Coach Reedy coaches to his player’s strength. His players are great with the ball at their feet. So they put it there. If they had the players that were more successful lobbing balls in the box they would. You had two contrasting style of play that both teams executed very well. Elder plays the free kick and throw in style well while Mason plays the possession and build up style well. Congrats to Elder you got the best of my Comets on Tuesday.
3. Mason boys, you guys are the best group of players to be around, congratulations on a wonderful season, good luck in your future endeavors and stay in touch.
Soccerfirst, I'm curious why you visit message boards if you stop posting/reading them the first time you don't agree with them!
FYI, I agree with your first point 100%. As you can tell from my earlier posts I thought the refs did a great job! However, I can listen to other points of view and several posters here felt the officiating was poor. They're entitled to their opinion even though I disagree!
On your second point, I knew that some people wouldn't get my post. Read it again. I'm not slamming the Mason coach I'm asking a question. In fact, I even ask if "I'm nuts" for bringing this up.
Let me expand but first a couple of disclaimers. Mason had a great year and the Mason coach did a great job. However, my point was that some of the coaches tactical decisions may have been influenced, consciously or subconsciously, by his having coached girls the previous few years. I've watched my share of girls soccer and it stresses possession. Throw ins are just a way to get the ball back into play. It's a tactical game that lacks the physicality and explosiveness of the boys version. I enjoy both games but also believe that you have to coach them very differently.
So here's my question and I hope the more experienced soccer people can answer. Did the fact that the Mason coach was the girls coach the last few years impact the style of play and attitude of the Mason boys team. I'm sorry, but the only other sport where you can have the girls/boys coach switch is basketball and I've been told it often takes a couple of years for the coach to settle into the new role.
The reason I ask this is I was very impressed with Mason when I saw them beat Fairfield earlier in the year. FF played a brutal schedule this year but I thought Mason was hands down the best team they played. However, during the Colerain game, it looked like a different team. The faster pace, more intense physical play and critical importance of set pieces (corner kicks, throw ins and free kicks) during the playoffs seemed to expose a weakness on the Comets side. The fact is Colerain came within a whisker of beating Mason and Elder did beat them.
To me, Mason should have won the regionals and made it as far as the semifinals. However, after seeing them taken out of their game by the physical play of Colerain and then watch them squander numerous position opportunities on corner kicks and throw ins against Elder, I was curious as to why.
I'm not a soccer expert, but when you switch from coaching the girls game to the boys game, there must be some effect (I also believe it would impact a switch in the other direction).
So again, Mason had a great season winning the tough GMC the first year in the league. But when you look at the playoffs - both the margin of early game victories and how far the Comets made it - I don't think they did as well as the talent dictated.
So I think my original question was fair, so since this is a high school soccer board, lets discuss!
msnsoccer05
11-04-07, 10:00 AM
wow...luke get a life
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