ALL of the National Polls

[SLCDad]

Rather than starting a whole new thread for every national poll (Consumerman) wouldn't it be better to be patient for 1 freaken day and post ALL of the polls together?

Here are ALL of the national polls for this week.

http://calpreps.com/2007/polls_view.htm


The Calpreps rankings look very strange as others have noted on other threads. As the season progresses the computers will become more in line with the human polls.

[UncleBaldy]

Rather than starting a whole new thread for every national poll (Consumerman) wouldn't it be better to be patient for 1 freaken day and post ALL of the polls together?

Here are ALL of the national polls for this week.

http://calpreps.com/2007/polls_view.htm


The Calpreps rankings look very strange as others have noted on other threads. As the season progresses the computers will become more in line with the human polls.

I wasn't surprised to see that Calpreps didn't have MNW at #1, but #9? Is there something they know that we don't?

[fish82]

I wasn't surprised to see that Calpreps didn't have MNW at #1, but #9? Is there something they know that we don't?

UB,

Calpreps figures SOS heavily into the computer model. Other than SLC, MNW is pretty far behind the other top teams in schedule strength.

[Chicago]

And if SLC looks less impressive as the weeks go by (depends on SLC SOS, in part), that will pull MNW down, too.

[SLCDad]

I wasn't surprised to see that Calpreps didn't have MNW at #1, but #9? Is there something they know that we don't?

Calpreps is a computer model. It is almost all mathematics except for some human assumptions that need to be included. At this point of the year there aren't that many games for the model to use. Early in the season, the model included results from the previous year. At about this point of the season all of the prior year results are removed but there aren't that many games in the current season to give a great ranking. As a result Calpreps can produce some goofy results. Most of it will be corrected as the season progresses.

Each of us can look at our own states. The Calpreps rankings for Texas include some HUGE differences from the human rankings.

There are some very good things about the computer models along with the bad.

This is one reason why I believe it's best to use all of the rankings together.

[SLCDad]

And if SLC looks less impressive as the weeks go by (depends on SLC SOS, in part), that will pull MNW down, too.

Yes, but it's more likely that SLC will look more and more impressive as the weeks go by. It's already happening as the young players are getting a few games under their belts and the injuries are healing.

[skyway28]

"It is almost all mathematics except for some human assumptions that need to be included. At this point of the year there aren't that many games for the model to use."

1) What assumptions need to be made? Who makes them? What, exactly, do they assume? For the record, you are right. There are assumptions that have to be made and values that need to be assigned in the programming pf the computer. At issue is the fact that these assumptions and assignd values render the computer rankings subjective as well.
2) There aren't many games to look at yet? How about the fact that two of the teams in question-MNW and SLC have already played!!! The calpreps computer projects SLC to beat MNW by 6 NOW, AFTER MNW traveled to Dallas in a game that could not be considered some fluke!

[skyway28]

And you, SLCDad, have defended the computer rankings to the death here. Why? Without them, SLC doesn't win the compilation average last year over Lakeland. Lakeland, in the rankings listed on the calpreps site, finished: 1, 1, 1, 3, 3 last year. Calpreps had them #17. In statistics, folks, that is called an "outlier". We take out the outlier for a more true analysis of the statistic. We should also take it out because the calpreps computer has been found to have numerous embarrasing ratings over the years.

[consumerman]

Rather than starting a whole new thread for every national poll (Consumerman) wouldn't it be better to be patient for 1 freaken day and post ALL of the polls together?

Here are ALL of the national polls for this week.

http://calpreps.com/2007/polls_view.htm


The Calpreps rankings look very strange as others have noted on other threads. As the season progresses the computers will become more in line with the human polls.

there are reasons to show LINKS to other polls individually rather than just showing a matrix of numbers and charts but those reasons sail over daditis head

1) there is sometimes discussion on the rankings, pointing out key games and accomplishments, and even REASONS on why teams are up or down

2) there are regional rankings

So for those more interested in some of the details and NOT just the my-team-is-higher-than-you-team matrix polls, looking at the individual sites HAS considerable value

[naughty]

Yes, but it's more likely that SLC will look more and more impressive as the weeks go by. It's already happening as the young players are getting a few games under their belts and the injuries are healing.

Impressice against sorry teams. So dont even go there. Wait until they hit the playoffs then we will see just how much better they really are. Or we will see that they have not changed that much at all.

[EaglePride01]

Calpreps is a computer model. It is almost all mathematics except for some human assumptions that need to be included. At this point of the year there aren't that many games for the model to use. Early in the season, the model included results from the previous year. At about this point of the season all of the prior year results are removed but there aren't that many games in the current season to give a great ranking. As a result Calpreps can produce some goofy results. Most of it will be corrected as the season progresses.

Each of us can look at our own states. The Calpreps rankings for Texas include some HUGE differences from the human rankings.

There are some very good things about the computer models along with the bad.

This is one reason why I believe it's best to use all of the rankings together.

Why do you suppose the Ohio and California teams were not effected as much as the Texas teams?

[skyway28]

I'd say it is because of whatever issue in the program that arbitrarily diminshes the value of Florida teams. Once the percieveed best team in Texas lost to a Florida team, it knocked Texas a bit out of whack as well. SLC is hurt as are all of the teams on their radar and in their area etc. SLC was their #1 rated team and when they lost to a team fromk the "lowly" state of Florida it diminshed everybody underneath them. So, you have but one Texas team in the top 25 and its a team from nowhere near dallas all the way down at #20.

[ThEfOoTbAlLsTaTe]

I'd say it is because of whatever issue in the program that arbitrarily diminshes the value of Florida teams. Once the percieveed best team in Texas lost to a Florida team, it knocked Texas a bit out of whack as well. SLC is hurt as are all of the teams on their radar and in their area etc. SLC was their #1 rated team and when they lost to a team fromk the "lowly" state of Florida it diminshed everybody underneath them. So, you have but one Texas team in the top 25 and its a team from nowhere near dallas all the way down at #20.

Watch how you say things. Texas has about 11 or 12 State Champions every year. 4 Champs are from teh 5A and 4A levels. There are many people who would take Cedar Hill over SLC, last year. There are many people who would take Euless Trinity over SLC in 2005. There are many people who would take Spring Westfield over SLC in 2005... and Katy beat SLC for the title that year, too.

Either Calpreps isn't aware of the strength of Texas playoffs.. or they're VERY aware of the strength of Texas playoffs and these rankings will sort themselves out at the end of the year.

Btw, people... MNW is a powerhouse of athleticism and speed. That team is one of Florida's best teams, ever. (If not the best.) To beat a SLC, who may not be the best team in Texas, this year, and all of the sudden spit down on MNW and SLC is absolutely goofy. I've seen Colerain, St. X, DLS and several other powerhouses, this year and I have yet to see a team I can actually say I would pick to beat them. I've seen Katy (TX), too.

[SLCDad]

And you, SLCDad, have defended the computer rankings to the death here. Why? Without them, SLC doesn't win the compilation average last year over Lakeland. Lakeland, in the rankings listed on the calpreps site, finished: 1, 1, 1, 3, 3 last year. Calpreps had them #17. In statistics, folks, that is called an "outlier". We take out the outlier for a more true analysis of the statistic. We should also take it out because the calpreps computer has been found to have numerous embarrasing ratings over the years.

I haven't defended the computer rankings "to the death". Sorry.

I HAVE said that they should be included equally with the rest of the rankings. I use ALL of the rankings.

The computer rankings don't have the biases that most of the human polls have. They provide a balance to the built in bias that the human polls have.

[RidgePride]

Watch how you say things. Texas has about 11 or 12 State Champions every year. 4 Champs are from teh 5A and 4A levels. There are many people who would take Cedar Hill over SLC, last year. There are many people who would take Euless Trinity over SLC in 2005. There are many people who would take Spring Westfield over SLC in 2005... and Katy beat SLC for the title that year, too.

Either Calpreps isn't aware of the strength of Texas playoffs.. or they're VERY aware of the strength of Texas playoffs and these rankings will sort themselves out at the end of the year.

Btw, people... MNW is a powerhouse of athleticism and speed. That team is one of Florida's best teams, ever. (If not the best.) To beat a SLC, who may not be the best team in Texas, this year, and all of the sudden spit down on MNW and SLC is absolutely goofy. I've seen Colerain, St. X, DLS and several other powerhouses, this year and I have yet to see a team I can actually say I would pick to beat them. I've seen Katy (TX), too.



SLC had to play one of the most talent laden teams to come out of Florida in many years and they still did not embarrass themselves evern with 8 new starters on defense.

MNW would do the same thing to (insert state champ from any state). MNW would handle ST. X in similar fashion if not worse.

No state has the #1 team in the nation every year including TX so I do not see what all the fluster is about. Everyone seems to think that because SLC lost to a very special Florida team that SLC's previous accomplishments are somehow lessened. The rational is ridiculous.

[ThEfOoTbAlLsTaTe]

SLC had to play one of the most talent laden teams to come out of Florida in many years and they still did not embarrass themselves evern with 8 new starters on defense.

MNW would do the same thing to (insert state champ from any state). MNW would handle ST. X in similar fashion if not worse.

No state has the #1 team in the nation every year including TX so I do not see what all the fluster is about. Everyone seems to think that because SLC lost to a very special Florida team that SLC's previous accomplishments are somehow lessened. The rational is ridiculous.

It's funny. As soon as SLC lost to MNW, all of these SLC-haters came out of the wood works. They said, "SEE.. we told you SLC/Texas football sucks!!!" It's really pretty sad. It's like they've been praying for this... a team made up of several 5-Star, 4-Star and 3-Star athletes to come blowout SLC... by 8 little pts. A defensively YOUNG SLC, at that.

It puts things into perspective... the HSFB-World hates Texas. Or, the HSFB-World is jealous of Texas. Personally.... I like the latter.:cool:

[PorkopolisPigskin]

I didn't want to chime in on this thread but now I feel forced to... For me at least I think they're overrated not for what they did against MNW (which could have been much worse), but how they played against a mediocre Rockwall team. 49-42 against a 3-3 team just doesn't cut for me I'm sorry... I hope that SLC gets smashed in the playoffs so you guys can keep stroking your nice little egos...

[BuckeyeJon2006]

SLC had to play one of the most talent laden teams to come out of Florida in many years and they still did not embarrass themselves evern with 8 new starters on defense.

MNW would do the same thing to (insert state champ from any state). MNW would handle ST. X in similar fashion if not worse.

No state has the #1 team in the nation every year including TX so I do not see what all the fluster is about. Everyone seems to think that because SLC lost to a very special Florida team that SLC's previous accomplishments are somehow lessened. The rational is ridiculous.

Do you have any proof for this claim other then your biased opinion? X wouldn't turn the ball over 5 times like SLC and they actually play a thing called defense.

[Chicago]

"by 8 little pts."

Pied,

Do points come in varying sizes in Texas? If one teams scores 21 little points and the other team scores 14 big points, who wins?

I figure you will know.

[pied]

"by 8 little pts."

Pied,

Do points come in varying sizes in Texas? If one teams scores 21 little points and the other team scores 14 big points, who wins?

I figure you will know.


Yes they do, it all is based on who you support.

If you scored 21, those were big and you would have scored more if you would have kept your starters in or they would not have scored on a broken coverage(I love that one). The 14 points you gave up were littel beacuse they were scored after the game was in haned, most likely the third or fourth quarter when your starters on D were out. If they were scored in the first half it was because of a broken play.

If you scored 14, you were in it until the end. If only you didn't fumble throw a pick or have Special Teams gaffe, it's tie game.

It is important to note, this is in place everywhere, except Illinois apparently.

It is a really easy concept, once you get the basic premise.

[Chicago]

Yes, Illinois just counts all the points the same.

On the other hand, the playoff system is ridiculous.

[skyway28]

Watch how you say things. Texas has about 11 or 12 State Champions every year. 4 Champs are from teh 5A and 4A levels. There are many people who would take Cedar Hill over SLC, last year. There are many people who would take Euless Trinity over SLC in 2005. There are many people who would take Spring Westfield over SLC in 2005... and Katy beat SLC for the title that year, too.

Either Calpreps isn't aware of the strength of Texas playoffs.. or they're VERY aware of the strength of Texas playoffs and these rankings will sort themselves out at the end of the year.

Btw, people... MNW is a powerhouse of athleticism and speed. That team is one of Florida's best teams, ever. (If not the best.) To beat a SLC, who may not be the best team in Texas, this year, and all of the sudden spit down on MNW and SLC is absolutely goofy. I've seen Colerain, St. X, DLS and several other powerhouses, this year and I have yet to see a team I can actually say I would pick to beat them. I've seen Katy (TX), too.

1) SLC was absolutely the CONSENSUS best team in Texas in 2005 and 2006. No question about it. Don't lie.
2) MNW is nowhere near being anointed the best team in Florida history. They play in the 3rd toughest classification and have yet to beat ANY of the other elite teams in the state. They have already had two close games within the state in DB and Homestead. They have yet to play any good Florida teams this year outside of DB.

[skyway28]

I haven't defended the computer rankings "to the death". Sorry.

I HAVE said that they should be included equally with the rest of the rankings. I use ALL of the rankings.

The computer rankings don't have the biases that most of the human polls have. They provide a balance to the built in bias that the human polls have.

Nothing that is terribly flawed and operates without basis-national prep computer rankings-should be included. National computer rankings for prep football operate without basis.

Calpreps does not use all of the rankings-take the PrepSportsIndex for example. And, it's inclusion of baseless ratings like computers and the current edition of SI, and things are thrown off.

[skyway28]

It's funny. As soon as SLC lost to MNW, all of these SLC-haters came out of the wood works. They said, "SEE.. we told you SLC/Texas football sucks!!!" It's really pretty sad. It's like they've been praying for this... a team made up of several 5-Star, 4-Star and 3-Star athletes to come blowout SLC... by 8 little pts. A defensively YOUNG SLC, at that.

It puts things into perspective... the HSFB-World hates Texas. Or, the HSFB-World is jealous of Texas. Personally.... I like the latter.:cool:

No, we don't hate Texas nor are we jealous. We do get nauseous at all of the myopically arrogant folks who have been brainwashed into thinking that, because a famous book was written and later made into a movie about Texas prep football, it is somehow THE best.

[skyway28]

And, it shoudl be noted that I am bashing the calpreps computer in a conversation with SLCDad at a time when only one Texas team is ranked in the top 20.

[naughty]

It's funny. As soon as SLC lost to MNW, all of these SLC-haters came out of the wood works. They said, "SEE.. we told you SLC/Texas football sucks!!!" It's really pretty sad. It's like they've been praying for this... a team made up of several 5-Star, 4-Star and 3-Star athletes to come blowout SLC... by 8 little pts. A defensively YOUNG SLC, at that.

It puts things into perspective... the HSFB-World hates Texas. Or, the HSFB-World is jealous of Texas. Personally.... I like the latter.:cool:

why are you yelling? And you did all this yelling for nothing because you proved nothing. Many thought SLC would lose. And they have not performed up to expected status this year. So people are letting you hear about it. SO SHUT UP AND GET OVER IT.

[pied]

No, we don't hate Texas nor are we jealous. We do get nauseous at all of the myopically arrogant folks who have been brainwashed into thinking that, because a famous book was written and later made into a movie about Texas prep football, it is somehow THE best.

We have been brainwashed by far more than that.

[ThEfOoTbAlLsTaTe]

why are you yelling? And you did all this yelling for nothing because you proved nothing. Many thought SLC would lose. And they have not performed up to expected status this year. So people are letting you hear about it. SO SHUT UP AND GET OVER IT.

Shut up and get over it??? It seems to me you guys are the ones who can't let it go... see the REAL purpose of this thread.