View Full Version : DLS 35, Mission Viejo 7
consumerman
10-07-07, 12:34 AM
DLS falls behind MV 7-0 after about 4 plays then wins 35-7
MV had not lost on its home field in something like 8 years
MV had not lost consecutive games in a similar stretch
MV had traveled 2000 miles and beat one of Ohio's best
They lost to DLS on their home field and for about 1 3/4 of the second half had the ball for 3 plays
DLS falls behind MV 7-0 after about 4 plays then wins 35-7
MV had not lost on its home field in something like 8 years
MV had not lost consecutive games in a similar stretch
MV had traveled 2000 miles and beat one of Ohio's best
They lost to DLS on their home field and for about 1 3/4 of the second half had the ball for 3 plays
FYI, Moe will finish in a 3-way tie for second (aka "last") in its league and currently looks to be dubious at best to qualify for the post-season. After Friday's game, they will be ranked in the 5-10 range in Cincy.
UncleBaldy
10-07-07, 08:33 AM
FYI, Moe will finish in a 3-way tie for second (aka "last") in its league and currently looks to be dubious at best to qualify for the post-season. After Friday's game, they will be ranked in the 5-10 range in Cincy.
Looks like Eitel has Moe at 11th in Region 4. With only three games left on their schedule, the playoffs look improbable, especially with one of those games being against St. X. Actually, probably the only way they can make the plays is to win all their remaining games included the one with St. X.
consumerman
10-07-07, 11:58 AM
oh i forgot
when an ohio team loses to a cali team, they are a weak team from a weak league having an off year
the next thread will then say the GCL is the strongest league in the country
which is it??
st x and the three dwarfs or the best league in the country
you cant conveniently have it both ways
MV traveled 2000 miles and beat Moeller by 4
DLS traveled 400 miles and beat MV by 28
DOWNTOWN PANTHER
10-07-07, 02:15 PM
DLS falls behind MV 7-0 after about 4 plays then wins 35-7
MV had not lost on its home field in something like 8 years
MV had not lost consecutive games in a similar stretch
MV had traveled 2000 miles and beat one of Ohio's best
They lost to DLS on their home field and for about 1 3/4 of the second half had the ball for 3 plays
Congrats on an excellent win. I was very impressed with how Bob Johnson runs his team. When they came to Cincinnati they started slow, but had a nice 2nd half.
Last season I was very impressed with DLS and their fans. What an AWSOME group. I think it is so cool how in sink DLS is. Its no wonder they won all thoes games.
As far as Moeller goes, they are still a solid team. It was an absolute shock to see Elder (4-3) put up 42 in the first half last Friday against them.
Good luck the rest of the season!!!
consumerman
10-07-07, 02:28 PM
Congrats on an excellent win. I was very impressed with how Bob Johnson runs his team. When they came to Cincinnati they started slow, but had a nice 2nd half.
Last season I was very impressed with DLS and their fans. What an AWSOME group. I think it is so cool how in sink DLS is. Its no wonder they won all thoes games.
As far as Moeller goes, they are still a solid team. It was an absolute shock to see Elder (4-3) put up 42 in the first half last Friday against them.
Good luck the rest of the season!!!
wow
was not aware of that 422 first half points
what does that tell you about st x defense?
DOWNTOWN PANTHER
10-07-07, 03:34 PM
wow
was not aware of that 422 first half points
what does that tell you about st x defense?
:shrug: Not quite sure how to respond to that..
None the less, congrats on a nice win. Sounds like DLS is taking care of business as usual.
consumerman
10-07-07, 03:42 PM
:shrug: Not quite sure how to respond to that..
None the less, congrats on a nice win. Sounds like DLS is taking care of business as usual.
elder had 42 points against moeller at half
elder socred 41 against independence
did not st x shut them out?
isn't that some kind of proof that st x has an off-the-chart defense this year?
Bordertown
10-07-07, 04:33 PM
Congrats on your big win Consumerman. Please show the class your coach demonstrated. Not sure why you interject a trip to Ohio by MV. Were you trying to infer something. Sounded like a classic circle jerk logic post.
consumerman
10-07-07, 04:47 PM
Congrats on your big win Consumerman. Please show the class your coach demonstrated. Not sure why you interject a trip to Ohio by MV. Were you trying to infer something. Sounded like a classic circle jerk logic post.
circle jerk this
MNW 29 and a mercy knee
SLC 21 with 5 turnovers and a punt mishap
please join the next time you have something relevant to say which certainly wasn't your last post
UncleBaldy
10-07-07, 05:10 PM
elder had 42 points against moeller at half
elder socred 41 against independence
did not st x shut them out?
isn't that some kind of proof that st x has an off-the-chart defense this year?
X does have a very good defense. After talking to my brother, who was at the Moe-Elder game, the Moeller d-backs got burned repeatedly just like Mission Viejo did. BTW, I saw that MV game against Moe. I though MV was a pretty good ball club. In my mind, its a damn good win for DLS. They are to be congratulated. Moeller is a Jekyll-Hyde football team, or as I've heard recently, a "box of chocolates" football team. You never know what you are going to get.
consumerman
10-07-07, 05:24 PM
LMFAO
Moeller just got their --- handed to them by an average elder team, who'd lost two straight. that comment makes me laugh. From now on everything you say is null and void.
Consumerman just doesnt want to admit that recruiting story by SLCDad is true so he's trying to draw our attention off it... :rolleyes:
AND ELDER HAD BEEN SHUTOUT BY ST. X the week before.
42 first half points was more than moeller allowed the whole game vs the 04 colerain cardinals. so, no, i dont think that its a very good arguement to say MV beat one of ohio's best.
CHOOSE:
ST X is excellent, Elder is average (your words), Moeller is weak (appears so) That means the GLC is NOT as good league as we always hear .. how can it be if Elder, probably the second best team in the league is "average" and therefore that vaunyed tough gauntlet St x schedule is really a bunch of league patsies
OR
The GCL is the best league in the nation
which is it?
consumerman
10-07-07, 05:26 PM
Now back to the thread
DLS had 491 yards of offense (under their season's average)
291 yards rushing and 200 yards passing
Czyz has 13 receptions this year
for 10 TD
and 35 yards per catch
DLS had 4 sacks and 3 interceptions
McGillvery has about 25 passes this year, for 11 TD
consumerman
10-07-07, 05:31 PM
X does have a very good defense. After talking to my brother, who was at the Moe-Elder game, the Moeller d-backs got burned repeatedly just like Mission Viejo did. BTW, I saw that MV game against Moe. I though MV was a pretty good ball club. In my mind, its a damn good win for DLS. They are to be congratulated. Moeller is a Jekyll-Hyde football team, or as I've heard recently, a "box of chocolates" football team. You never know what you are going to get.
MV had not been defeated on its home field in 8 years
DLS manhandled them, the second half was men against boys
BTW, I was surprised that the commentator said he talked to Coach Lad and according to him. coach Lad said he was puzzled how his team lost to Canyon, he walked off the field saying he was sure DLS was the better team
consumerman
10-07-07, 06:01 PM
LMFAO
Moeller just got their --- handed to them by an average elder team, who'd lost two straight. that comment makes me laugh. From now on everything you say is null and void.
Consumerman just doesnt want to admit that recruiting story by SLCDad is true so he's trying to draw our attention off it... :rolleyes:
AND ELDER HAD BEEN SHUTOUT BY ST. X the week before.
42 first half points was more than moeller allowed the whole game vs the 04 colerain cardinals. so, no, i dont think that its a very good arguement to say MV beat one of ohio's best.
LMAO????
Go to the opening page on thos forum, I realize it is a fans vote p either you all are very bad at ranking teams or Moeller is not as bad as you are making them out to be, standard excuse when a team from out of state beats one of the powers from your best league
1 - Cincinnati St Xavier (6-0) (205) [54]
2 - Cincinnati Colerain (6-0) (166) [18]
3 - Hilliard Darby (6-0) (123)
4 - Cleveland St Ignatius (5-1) (122) [1]
5 - Dublin Coffman (6-0) (113)
6 - Brunswick (6-0) (105) [1]
7 - Cincinnati Archbishop Moeller (4-1) (92)
8 - Pickerington Central (6-0) (72)
9 - Cincinnati Princeton (5-1) (68)
10 - Euclid (5-1) (39
LMAO x 1 million
consumerman
10-07-07, 06:07 PM
Now back to the thread
DLS had 491 yards of offense (under their season's average)
291 yards rushing and 200 yards passing
Czyz has 13 receptions this year
for 10 TD
and 35 yards per catch
DLS had 4 sacks and 3 interceptions
McGillvery has about 25 passes this year, for 11 TD
PS did you see the lineman (#50?) who made a CRUSHING block 60 YARDS Downfield on DLS second play from scrimmage, the 71 yard run? #50 is the right tackle, the block was made 60 yards down the LEFT sideline... (there was another downfield block by another lineman 33 yards downfield)
what kind of linemen can get downfield that far on a running play and then make a crushing block?
Answer- looks like DLS linemen this year
watch out
______________________
maybe getting a pancake block on them made the DBs a little gunshy and might help explain (along with putting too many men in the box) 3 long TD passes
consumerman
10-07-07, 06:24 PM
1st - rankings change as the results change.
2nd - gcl is still the best league in the country, just look at the OoC records.
3rd - when a great Moeller team comes along you'll know it.
4th - LaSalle is probably the 2nd best team in the league.
5th - congrats on that win over MV. Lemme know how the "state" title game goes this year, wonder if "the record" would be what it is today if there was 1 champ per division in Cali....
how can the GCL be the best league in the country when
1) there are only what 5 teams?
2) ELder, probably third best (maybe second best) is ONLY AVERAGE - YOUR WORDS
3) Moeller, a traditional power is a joke according to you
so then traveling 2000 miles to open your season and beating Moeller IS an accomplishment or the GCL is NOT the best league in the country
you are talking out of both sides of your mouth
and you can take pot shots all you want at DLS
DLS does not determine the cali playoff system
DLS has played and beaten more top 5 national teams than ANYONE
tell me when ST X has beaten a top 5 time like DLS did in 1998 (#2 Mater Dei), 2001 (#1 LB Poly), 2002 (#2 LB Poly)
tell me okay?
DLS also had 44 game win streaks and 34 game win streaks prior to the 151 game win streak. their 44 game win streak was stopped by nationally ranked Monte Vista 14-13 when DLS went for 2 points and a borderline call said the runner was out of bounds before crossing the plane, their 34 game win streak was ended 35-27 when a 4th Q 95 yard interception return led to a 35-27 defeat. In total from 1984-2003 DLS lost 5 games by 1,1,2,2 and 8 points
so to make sure I understand you, the GCL IS the best league in the country but their third (or second) best team is only average and their fourth (or third) best team is a joke
Gotcha
oh i forgot
when an ohio team loses to a cali team, they are a weak team from a weak league having an off year
the next thread will then say the GCL is the strongest league in the country
which is it??
st x and the three dwarfs or the best league in the country
you cant conveniently have it both ways
MV traveled 2000 miles and beat Moeller by 4
DLS traveled 400 miles and beat MV by 28
What is it with you?
Elder , Moe and LaSalle are much better than average teams. Amongst the the better teams in their region - which is a tough region. But none of them will come remotely close to being a threat for the state title and there exists a distinct possibility that none of them will qualify for the state tournament.
I was at the Moe-MV game. Moe should have won. That they lost is, I believe, a commentary on a bad coaching situation. Shame on them. The Crusaders have two "decent" wins over LaSalle and Brother Rice. That's it. They could very well be home on the couch come tourney.
The problem here is your desire to pump up DLS and MV wins in Ohio. Sorry, but neither Elder last year nor Moe this year are remotely close to being amongst Ohio's best, unless you have a very broad definition of "best".
Please state your case for Moe being one of "Ohio's best" this year. Perhaps the wins over Mason and Findlay (2-12 between them)? The spanking by three-loss Elder? The win over three-loss traditional league doormat LaSalle?
If you have one shred of intelluctual integrity, you'll admit that it is due to one thing: they have to be one of Ohio's best because they lost to MV. There is no other reason to call them anything like "Ohio's best".
BuckeyeJon2006
10-07-07, 07:00 PM
how can the GCL be the best league in the country when
1) there are only what 5 teams?
2) ELder, probably third best (maybe second best) is ONLY AVERAGE - YOUR WORDS
3) Moeller, a traditional power is a joke according to you
so then traveling 2000 miles to open your season and beating Moeller IS an accomplishment or the GCL is NOT the best league in the country
you are talking out of both sides of your mouth
and you can take pot shots all you want at DLS
DLS does not determine the cali playoff system
DLS has played and beaten more top 5 national teams than ANYONE
tell me when ST X has beaten a top 5 time like DLS did in 1998 (#2 Mater Dei), 2001 (#1 LB Poly), 2002 (#2 LB Poly)
tell me okay?
DLS also had 44 game win streaks and 34 game win streaks prior to the 151 game win streak. their 44 game win streak was stopped by nationally ranked Monte Vista 14-13 when DLS went for 2 points and a borderline call said the runner was out of bounds before crossing the plane, their 34 game win streak was ended 35-27 when a 4th Q 95 yard interception return led to a 35-27 defeat. In total from 1984-2003 DLS lost 5 games by 1,1,2,2 and 8 points
so to make sure I understand you, the GCL IS the best league in the country but their third (or second) best team is only average and their fourth (or third) best team is a joke
Gotcha
1) The GCL has 4 teams, that right there proves you don't know what you are talking about
2) Elder has a good offense and an average (at best) defense. You see in Ohio you have to actually play defense to win games so when a team like Elder (or Moeller, or Lasalle) runs up against someone like X or Colerain they loose. When they play each other anything can happen. I would say Elder is an ok team by Elder standards, still def better then average though. They would still beat every non GCL team in Cincy not named Colerain. They are not top 10 in Ohio though.
3) Moeller hasn't been a power since the 70's. They've made one regional final appearence in the last decade, once again showing you don't know what you are talking about. They are like Elder, a good offense but they have a terrible defense. Again they would beat every non GCL team in Cincy not named Colerain, but are not a top 10 team in Ohio.
4) Travelling is the most overused excuse in football. How hard is it to sit on a plane for a couple hours and stay in a hotel for a night or two? Teams in Ohio take buses from Cincy to Cleveland and vice versa to play games but its not considered a "great accomplishment" if you win. So yeah congrats to MV you beat an ok Moeller because their coach choked away the game. Many teams could have done that.
5) All teams in Cali benefitted from not having a true playoff system. Teams like DLS, MV, LB Poly, Mater Dei and others could all have 0-1 loss records unless they played each other. Hence those teams are all ranked high in the polls if they are coming off a year with such a good record. We all saw what happened to DLS when there was an actual playoff last year and all non biased people (aka not you) know if it existed back then that, one way or another, things would have been different.
6) When spouting off national polls is part of your argument that is pathetic. All national polls are a crap shoot. X played Dematha who was suppose to be a top five team in the country, obviously they weren't though. So who's to say LB Poly and Mater Dei were top five teams in those years? Because they played DLS? Please, national polls are a joke.
Just look at the non conference record of the GCL. An average Moeller team and an ok Elder team still beat almost every non confernce team they play. That just shows how good the brand of football the GCL plays is. Show me another conference like that and you can take away the title from the GCL.
Bordertown
10-07-07, 07:01 PM
Concha I hope the folks will be intellectually honest about Tyler Lee in 2005. I too think this was a good win for DLS. Just sorry the attention to their nice win had to be cast in a shadow by the first post of this thread.
consumerman
10-07-07, 07:01 PM
Moeller is 6-5, 5-5, and 4-2 in the last two plus season. we've fallen on hard times as of late. the last state title was in 85, and the last title appearance was 97.
Elder has an average to bad record since winning back to back state titles in 02 and 03 (most of there losses are in the gcl though).
and there are 4 teams, not 5.
St. X? good since specht came, 3 losses total... 45+ wins...
hmmm, lets think theyve defeated plenty.... gcl in general, have defeated plenty, i couldnt name them all... maybe later though.
www.stxavier.org
www.moeller.org
www.ehsports.org
www.cincinnatilasalle.net
look it up yourself if you want ...
i was just asking an honest question, do you think the streak wouldve lasted as long if there was a real cali playoff system.... i mean the first time they played another game, last year, they lost?
I can be honest and answer these, let's remember that we are talking the strak teams, not the 2004, 2005 or 2006 teams
1) If there was a real cali playoff system that entended beyond the sections .. let's remember DLS plays 2-3 post season games in their section every year. I would doubt that any norcal team could have beat them. they play top teams from the CCS every year and manhandle them, I do not believe, with maybe a real rare exception any sacramento/stockton san joaquin section team could have beaten them. I do believe that playing a socal champion that went 14-0 and then won 1-2 more playoff games before facing DLS would have at least a 50/50 chance of beating them. Lets remember DLS beat 1998 Southern Section Champ and and national #2 rated Mater Dei. Let's remember DLS beat 1999 Southern Section co-champ Mater Dei and Matt Leinart 42-0, let's remember DLS beat 2001 Southern Section Champ LB Poly 29-15 (Poly was #1 at the time of the DLS game, #2 the previous year and ended the season. despite their loss to DLS #3 in the nation).
Reasoning DLS loss to Canyon in 2006 negates their accomplishents 1992-2003 and especially 1994 to 2002 is, in my opinion, faulty
2) sorry to say but it is fool's logic to say the loss by DLS in 2006 to Canyon means DLS would have lost likewise during the streak years. The 2006 DLS team I believe layed an egg in the game and were beaten however the TALENT level of that team as far as superstars was nonexistant as compared to the DJ Williams (national player of the year) Maurice Drew (now Jones-Drew), Derek Landri etc etc etc. It is a real jump to say that because the 2006 DLS team (short of typical D1 recruits) lost 1 game in a playoff where they had a short week of practice, had to fly to the other end of the state (the other team had to drive 30 miles) and had to take finals the day of the bowl game and then just got outplayed outcached and outbreaked means that all thise great DLS teams were overrated and would have lost is a foolish argument.
consumerman
10-07-07, 07:03 PM
Concha I hope the folks will be intellectually honest about Tyler Lee in 2005. I too think this was a good win for DLS. Just sorry the attention to their nice win had to be cast in a shadow by the first post of this thread.
see post #28
those arent MY rankings
Concha I hope the folks will be intellectually honest about Tyler Lee in 2005. I too think this was a good win for DLS. Just sorry the attention to their nice win had to be cast in a shadow by the first post of this thread.
I'm not saying it wasn't a laudable victory. I believe it was. Consumerman has a sad habit of exaggeration in certain respects. I simply pointed it out.
consumerman
10-07-07, 07:09 PM
1) The GCL has 4 teams, that right there proves you don't know what you are talking about
2) Elder has a good offense and an average (at best) defense. You see in Ohio you have to actually play defense to win games so when a team like Elder (or Moeller, or Lasalle) runs up against someone like X or Colerain they loose. When they play each other anything can happen. I would say Elder is an ok team by Elder standards, still def better then average though. They would still beat every non GCL team in Cincy not named Colerain. They are not top 10 in Ohio though.
3) Moeller hasn't been a power since the 70's. They've made one regional final appearence in the last decade, once again showing you don't know what you are talking about. They are like Elder, a good offense but they have a terrible defense. Again they would beat every non GCL team in Cincy not named Colerain, but are not a top 10 team in Ohio.
4) Travelling is the most overused excuse in football. How hard is it to sit on a plane for a couple hours and stay in a hotel for a night or two? Teams in Ohio take buses from Cincy to Cleveland and vice versa to play games but its not considered a "great accomplishment" if you win. So yeah congrats to MV you beat an ok Moeller because their coach choked away the game. Many teams could have done that.
5) All teams in Cali benefitted from not having a true playoff system. Teams like DLS, MV, LB Poly, Mater Dei and others could all have 0-1 loss records unless they played each other. Hence those teams are all ranked high in the polls if they are coming off a year with such a good record. We all saw what happened to DLS when there was an actual playoff last year and all non biased people (aka not you) know if it existed back then that, one way or another, things would have been different.
6) When spouting off national polls is part of your argument that is pathetic. All national polls are a crap shoot. X played Dematha who was suppose to be a top five team in the country, obviously they weren't though. So who's to say LB Poly and Mater Dei were top five teams in those years? Because they played DLS? Please, national polls are a joke.
Just look at the non conference record of the GCL. An average Moeller team and an ok Elder team still beat almost every non confernce team they play. That just shows how good the brand of football the GCL plays is. Show me another conference like that and you can take away the title from the GCL.
so which is it????
the GCL is a great (though small) 4 team league and beating one of them is an accomplishment
or the GCL is iverrated and is ST X and the 3 dwarfs?/
which is it?
umm Mater Dei in 1998 won the Southern Section which included 4 playoff games
umm LB Poly won the Southern Section in 1999 (co-champ), 2000, 2001
they had to win 4 playoff games each of those years
in case you are new to this, cali currently has the most players (over 200) in the nbfl
not exactly cupckae city
so Moeller and Elder win all their non-league games is that it?
except in 2006 to DLS (trailing 49-18 after 3 Q)
and to MV in 2007
sorry
GCL 0-2 vs cali teams
_________________
and the difference between national rankings AT THE BEGINNING of the year (see De Matha 2007) and at THE END of the YEAR (see Mater Dei 1998, LB Poly 2001) is like night and day
you should realize that
consumerman
10-07-07, 07:10 PM
I'm not saying it wasn't a laudable victory. I believe it was. Consumerman has a sad habit of exaggeration in certain respects. I simply pointed it out.
concha lets go back 7-9 years and all your quotes saying (on other boards) cali teams would never win against ohio teams, now they are just over-rated wins
guess again
3-0 in the herbie
same old concha
see post #28
those arent MY rankings
No, those rankings are thanks to predominantly high school kids from Southwest Ohio prior to Moe getting prison-raped by three-loss Elder. Polls like that are akin to a "who's your favorite baseball team" poll taken in Yankee stadium. Pathetic.
concha lets go back 7-9 years and all your quotes saying (on other boards) cali teams would never win against ohio teams, now they are just over-rated wins
guess again
3-0 in the herbie
same old concha
Let's address your sad penchant for exaggeration.
So I take it you're taking a pass on making a case for Moe as one of "Ohio's best"?
Yes...no...maybe?
consumerman
10-07-07, 07:16 PM
Elder , Moe and LaSalle are much better than average teams. Amongst the the better teams in their region - which is a tough region.
then wins against them, especially traveling 2000 miles to play your first game of the year IS an accomplishment
and then beating the team that beat Moeller, 35-7 and putting 491 yards of offense against them and recording 4 sacks and getting 3 interceptions, on MV home field where they had not lost in 8 years...
is a very good win
jealousies jealousies jealousies
Elder , Moe and LaSalle are much better than average teams. Amongst the the better teams in their region - which is a tough region.
then wins against them, especially traveling 2000 miles to play your first game of the year IS an accomplishment
and then beating the team that beat Moeller, 35-7 and putting 491 yards of offense against them and recording 4 sacks and getting 3 interceptions, on MV home field where they had not lost in 8 years...
is a very good win
jealousies jealousies jealousies
Bovine fertilizer for brains:
Where have I said DLS's victory wasn't respectable?
All I did was point out your incorrect depiction of Moe as one of Ohio's best this year. I note you haven't had the stones (nor evidence) to attempt to make such a case.
consumerman
10-07-07, 07:21 PM
now let's cut out all this ohio tough football BS out
DLS beat a solid MV team 35-7 and looked very impressive in doing it
running
passing
defense
special teams
coaching
athleticism
technique
who disagrees?
consumerman
10-07-07, 07:25 PM
Bovine fertilizer for brains:
Where have I said DLS's victory wasn't repectable?
All I did was point out your incorrect depiction of Moe as one of Ohio's best this year. I note you haven't has the stones (nor evidence) to attempt to make such a case.
so Moeller is a top team in the top league in the nation and wins almost all of its non conference games and is fan rated as the #7 team in the state
but when and out of state team beats them we hear
1) they are no good, an average Elder team buried them (so the GREATEST league in the nation ahs St X, a so-o LaSalle team that loses three or more games every year, an average Elder team and a weak Moleer team) .. I will laugh til Xmas on this 2 headed argument
2) the coach choked
3) the refs made some bad calls
4) we should have got some breaks
5) having a home game while a bunch of 15-17 year olds have to travel 2000 miles to play their first game of the year in a hostile environment is a non-factor
egads
Mr. Shuck 'n Jive:
Where's your case for Moe as one of Ohio's best?
BuckeyeJon2006
10-07-07, 07:32 PM
so which is it????
the GCL is a great (though small) 4 team league and beating one of them is an accomplishment
or the GCL is iverrated and is ST X and the 3 dwarfs?/
which is it?
It is an accomplishment MV beat Moeller, what do you want a cookie or something? Again though, they are not one of the best teams in Ohio, or even Cincinnati. Cali teams have not been paired up with Ohio's (or even Cincy's) best the last two years
umm Mater Dei in 1998 won the Southern Section which included 4 playoff games
umm LB Poly won the Southern Section in 1999 (co-champ), 2000, 2001
they had to win 4 playoff games each of those years
State playoffs? No? ok come back when you have one of those
in case you are new to this, cali currently has the most players (over 200) in the nbfl
not exactly cupckae city
Ok thats great, too bad that has nothing to do with this discussions. Glenville has more NFL players then any school in Ohio and what have they ever won?
so Moeller and Elder win all their non-league games is that it?
except in 2006 to DLS (trailing 49-18 after 3 Q)
and to MV in 2007
sorry
GCL 0-2 vs cali teams
An average Moeller team and an ok Elder team still beat almost every non confernce team they play.
Reading is fundamental, you should try it sometime.
_________________
and the difference between national rankings AT THE BEGINNING of the year (see De Matha 2007) and at THE END of the YEAR (see Mater Dei 1998, LB Poly 2001) is like night and day
you should realize that
And what makes Mater Dei and LB Poly a top 5 team in those years? Because they almost beat DLS? Once again, national polls mean nothing.
BuckeyeJon2006
10-07-07, 07:38 PM
Bovine fertilizer for brains:
Where have I said DLS's victory wasn't respectable?
All I did was point out your incorrect depiction of Moe as one of Ohio's best this year. I note you haven't had the stones (nor evidence) to attempt to make such a case.
That's all I was trying to do. Congrats to MV for beating Moeller, and congrats to DLS for stomping MV. MV did not beat one of ohio's best though. While I'm at it congrats to Texas High for beating Findlay. Texas football is obviously better then Ohio football because of the results from this game.
consumerman
10-07-07, 07:42 PM
And what makes Mater Dei and LB Poly a top 5 team in those years? Because they almost beat DLS? Once again, national polls mean nothing.
well first of all they did not almost beat DLS
DLS played MD 4 times and Poly twice
DLS never trailed at any point in any of the 6 games
umm they were ranked in the top THREE nationally because they won (in a 4 game playoff) the California CIF Southern Section, considered the top SECTION in the country
are you that naive and ignorant?
consumerman
10-07-07, 07:46 PM
State playoffs? No? ok come back when you have one of those
is that the best you can do?
come back WHERE?
cali has no quality teams then because there is not a playoff of their TEN section winners???
Ohio has what 4 sections? and it takes what TWO games to win a section?
wow
The CIF Southern Section takes 4 games to win their section
then they should play another 3-4 game sto appease you?
so because cali does not have a 10 section playoff, no one from cali can have a good football team?
what grade are you in?
or better yet, have you ever gone to school?
consumerman
10-07-07, 07:48 PM
Mr. Shuck 'n Jive:
Where's your case for Moe as one of Ohio's best?
same ol concha
moeller is a vaunted team from that small (4) team league that is reputed to be the best in the country as exampled by those tough Lasalle Eldcer and Moeller teams
but beating Moeller means nothing cuz they are no good
same ol concha
consumerman
10-07-07, 07:51 PM
State playoffs? No? ok come back when you have one of those
PS
you might wanna recheck these games
2006 elder vs DLS
2007 glenville vs LB Poly
2007 moeller vs MV
okay bud?
you might wanna come back when you can win against a cali team even though you have a tremndous home field advantage
same ol concha
moeller is a vaunted team from that small (4) team league that is reputed to be the best in the country as exampled by those tough Lasalle Eldcer and Moeller teams
but beating Moeller means nothing cuz they are no good
same ol concha
Mr. Shuck 'n Jive:
Where's your case for Moe as one of Ohio's best?
State playoffs? No? ok come back when you have one of those
PS
you might wanna recheck these games
2006 elder vs DLS
2007 glenville vs LB Poly
2007 moeller vs MV
okay bud?
you might wanna come back when you can win against a cali team even though you have a tremndous home field advantage
'06 Elder: DNQ for tourney
'07 G'ville: currently will not qualify
'07 Moe: currently will not qualify
Cali rocks
Elder and Moe have 32 losses between them since the 2004 season.
"Vaunted"?
consumerman
10-07-07, 08:24 PM
you have convinced me
elder sucks
moeller sucks
but combined they are HALF the greatest league in the nation
but you have convicned me
same ol concha
but beating Moeller means nothing cuz they are no good
Somebody get c-man "Hooked on Phonics".
A win over Moe is good stuff. Moe just isn't one of Ohio's best this year.
Watch as c-man continues to fail to graps this simple concept. It will sail miles over his melon.
consumerman
10-07-07, 08:26 PM
you have further convinced me
mission viejo sucks
glenville sucks
dls sucks
dls would never have a 5 game win streak, let alone a 151 game win streak if they played in ohio
they would probably go 0-10 every year
and might only score on the fourth string defense
you have convinced me
you have convinced me
elder sucks
moeller sucks
but combined they are HALF the greatest league in the nation
but you have convicned me
SLCDad is an integrity-laden genius in comparison to you.
Elder and Moe are very good teams.
They aren't amongst "Ohio's best" though. And haven't been for a few years.
Watch c-man not get it. Again. This is hilarious.
consumerman
10-07-07, 08:32 PM
see counterconcha
u need to learn semantics
the best to you may mean the top 2 or 3 teams in ohio
and then you can spend hours spinning about elder and moeller when the thread is about dls
the best to me can mean a top 25 team (and this was before I knew the elder score) and is part of the vaunted gcl
so you may want to go take some communication and logic 101 classes
and see I can say one of the best and you can say not one of the best but based on our definitons we can both be right
now back to the thread PLEASE
counterconcha
see counterconcha
u need to learn semantics
the best to you may mean the top 2 or 3 teams in ohio
and then you can spend hours spinning about elder and moeller when the thread is about dls
the best to me can mean a top 25 team (and this was before I knew the elder score) and is part of the vaunted gcl
so you may want to go take some communication and logic 101 classes
and see I can say one of the best and you can say not one of the best but based on our definitons we can both be right
now back to the thread PLEASE
counterconcha
So where's your case for Moe as one of Ohio's best this year? :shrug:
consumerman
10-07-07, 08:41 PM
So where's your case for Moe as one of Ohio's best this year? :shrug:
reread (or for the first time read) post 49
back to the thread now
No use kicking a corpse.....
bittersweet
10-07-07, 09:05 PM
Elder was ranked 4th(?) in the state of Ohio at one point.
Moeller was ranked 7th in the state.
Moeller beat La Salle
La Salle beat Elder
Elder beat Moeller
Mission Viejo beat Moeller
Stands to reason Mission Viejo is in the same class (on Par) with 3 out of 4 GCL teams.
St. X outclassed both Elder and La Salle. They will probably be 2 or 3 TD's better than Moeller. St. X is on another level.
St X's toughest game in-state game this year was against Glenville. If it wasn't for a late TD, the game would have ended 20-12, on par with LB Poly, who beat Glenville 21-13.
For the sake of comparison, St. X is on par with LB Poly based on a common opponent.
DLS completely dominated Mission Viejo on it's home turf.
To further expand the analysis, at this time, one can argue that St. X and Poly are on par with each other. But Poly is a "tier 2" California team, just as Moeller and Elder are "tier 2" in Ohio.
Poly lost to Birmingham High (20-7), who lost to Crespi (20-6), who got killed by a "tier 1" Calif. team Corona Centennial (41-20), who lost to another "tier 1" Calif team Mater Dei (51-37). (all according to Maxpreps)
IMO opinion, Mission Viejo is a tier 3 team in California. I would like to see these following match up's. This is the best of the best IMO.
Colerain vs. DLS
St. X vs Mater Dei
-I would love to see St. X try to stop MD's passing game.
Mooney vs. Centennial or Orange Lutheran.
And for the record, I think Calif sweeps
consumerman
10-07-07, 09:20 PM
Elder was ranked 4th(?) in the state of Ohio at one point.
Moeller was ranked 7th in the state.
Moeller beat La Salle
La Salle beat Elder
Elder beat Moeller
Mission Viejo beat Moeller
Stands to reason Mission Viejo is in the same class (on Par) with 3 out of 4 GCL teams.
St. X outclassed both Elder and La Salle. They will probably be 2 or 3 TD's better than Moeller. St. X is on another level.
St X's toughest game in-state game this year was against Glenville. If it wasn't for a late TD, the game would have ended 20-12, on par with LB Poly, who beat Glenville 21-13.
For the sake of comparison, St. X is on par with LB Poly based on a common opponent.
DLS completely dominated Mission Viejo on it's home turf.
To further expand the analysis, at this time, one can argue that St. X and Poly are on par with each other. But Poly is a "tier 2" California team, just as Moeller and Elder are "tier 2" in Ohio.
Poly lost to Birmingham High (20-7), who lost to Crespi (20-6), who got killed by a "tier 1" Calif. team Corona Centennial (41-20), who lost to another "tier 1" Calif team Mater Dei (51-37). (all according to Maxpreps)
IMO opinion, Mission Viejo is a tier 3 team in California. I would like to see these following match up's. This is the best of the best IMO.
Colerain vs. DLS
St. X vs Mater Dei
-I would love to see St. X try to stop MD's passing game.
Mooney vs. Centennial or Orange Lutheran.
And for the record, I think Calif sweeps
nice post
I think OL is fantastic
It appears MD is awesome although they gave up 697 yards? Not sure if that is fact or fiction.
And they seem to win shootouts by the 50-35 score range
but what happens when a few tipped balls and other breaks go against them and they still give up 35 points? do they win? arte they always going to score 50 plus against a top team?
I would also like to see St X try to hold DLS to under 28 points, they dont seem to score more than 17-24
Bordertown
10-07-07, 09:43 PM
Who did DLS play? I have lost them somewhere in the continued comical ranting of the Yappi superhero - CONSUMERMAN. Are you envious of Cinci because it is the headquarters of your employer? Or did you have a bad experience flying Delta into Cinci airport?
consumerman
10-07-07, 10:08 PM
Who did DLS play? I have lost them somewhere in the continued comical ranting of the Yappi superhero - CONSUMERMAN. Are you envious of Cinci because it is the headquarters of your employer? Or did you have a bad experience flying Delta into Cinci airport?
please participate when u have something relevant to add
Who did DLS play? I have lost them somewhere in the continued comical ranting of the Yappi superhero - CONSUMERMAN. Are you envious of Cinci because it is the headquarters of your employer? Or did you have a bad experience flying Delta into Cinci airport?:laugh:
cubbyphan
10-08-07, 08:20 AM
Wow, consumerman and bittersweet seem to enjoy make crazy claims about Ohio schools that they apparently know nothing about.
"so Moeller is a top team in the top league in the nation"
- Moeller is at best the 2nd worst team in the GCL this year, and may be the worst
"and wins almost all of its non conference games"
- Moeller was 5-4 last year, and will finish with at least 3, probably 4 losses this year
"and is fan rated as the #7 team in the state"
- this was before this past weeks game, I assume you will correct it when the new rankings come out (and lol at using a "fan" ranking that basically is a measure of the number of people from that school that post on Yappi as part of the argument)
"If it wasn't for a late TD, the game would have ended 20-12"
- nice, actually changing what happened on the field in order to make your argument work; I love how the California posters love to take away X's late score, but not Glenville's; the fact is St X won the game by 15
"Moeller and Elder are "tier 2" in Ohio"
- based on what?
Moeller has made no real noise in the playoffs since 1997, was 5-4 last year, will likely miss the playoffs this year, and just got taken to the woodshed by the #8 ranked team in just the city of Cincinnati
Elder has missed the playoffs 2 years in a row and are in danger of missing again this year; they were ranked #8 in the city going into this week; they just came off a loss to a very mediocre St Ed team, and earlier in the year were taken to the wire by one of the weakest teams in cincy
Neither Moeller or Elder is a top 25 overall team in Ohio by an stretch of the imagination
"I would also like to see St X try to hold DLS to under 28 points, they dont seem to score more than 17-24"
- who doesn't? If you are referring to St X, they average 31 points per game
Since bittersweet likes comparing scores so much, let's do that though. Elder just beat Moeller 49-33. But wait. Two of those scores came late in the game, and apparently late scores don't count in California. So Elder really won by 30 points. Mission Viejo beat Moeller by 4, but one of those scores was at the end of the game, meaning Moeller is actually 3 points better than Mission Viejo. So Elder is 34 points better than Mission Viejo. De La Salle beat Mission Viejo by 28. Therefore, Elder is on par with De La Salle. See, all we need to do is look at the math and it shows us that the #8 team in Cincinnati is on par with a "tier 1" team in California.
Elder was ranked 4th(?) in the state of Ohio at one point. [And obviously are not 4th. They have 3 losses in Ohio already and are doubtful for the tourney. Was this a fan poll?]
Moeller was ranked 7th in the state. [And got spanked by Elder and could lose their next three in a row. Nice irrelevant factoid]
Moeller beat La Salle
La Salle beat Elder
Elder beat Moeller
Mission Viejo beat Moeller
Stands to reason Mission Viejo is in the same class (on Par) with 3 out of 4 GCL teams. [They are probably not materially different than these teams]
St. X outclassed both Elder and La Salle. They will probably be 2 or 3 TD's better than Moeller. St. X is on another level.
St X's toughest game in-state game this year was against Glenville. If it wasn't for a late TD, the game would have ended 20-12, on par with LB Poly, who beat Glenville 21-13. [Late TDs don't count? WTF? Care to factor in X playing without Ashley who is now back and racking up 120 yards per game (6.6 avg) with 6 TDs in 3 games?]
For the sake of comparison, St. X is on par with LB Poly based on a common opponent. [You must be joking]
DLS completely dominated Mission Viejo on it's home turf. [We know that. Nobody's argued that at all]
To further expand the analysis ["Analysis"? When did any serious analysis begin?], at this time, one can argue that St. X and Poly are on par with each other. But Poly is a "tier 2" California team, just as Moeller and Elder are "tier 2" in Ohio. [I'm going to start calling this guy "CaliFroggy"]
Poly lost to Birmingham High (20-7), who lost to Crespi (20-6), who got killed by a "tier 1" Calif. team Corona Centennial (41-20), who lost to another "tier 1" Calif team Mater Dei (51-37). (all according to Maxpreps) [Follow the bouncing ball]
IMO opinion, Mission Viejo is a tier 3 team in California. I would like to see these following match up's. This is the best of the best IMO.
Colerain vs. DLS
St. X vs Mater Dei
-I would love to see St. X try to stop MD's passing game.
Mooney vs. Centennial or Orange Lutheran.
And for the record, I think Calif sweeps
As regards your matchups, they look fine.
1) DLS looks very solid this year. FYI, Colerain would crush MV also. Don't be too confident. Colerain nearly always starts of slow on offense (seems to take a game or two to get the option game clicking). DLS would have their hands full.
2) X has made adjustments to their defense to address pass strong teams and the results are promising (using a 3-2-6). The Elder team that lit up the likes of Indy and Moe had 111 total yards against X. X has given up 7 points since the adjustments (3 games). I would also point out that X coaching staff are proving to be masters at making adjustments this year. Since the DeMatha game they are +37 in the first half and +91 in the second half. Their depth is a factor also. At just about every position they have subs who present little to no drop-off in effectiveness.
Oh, and Darius Ashley is back (did I mention that?). He's the guy that put up about 3,000 yards and nearly 50 TDs as an underclassman. He's just getting warmed up, but last week he put up 170 yards and 3 TDs. As I mentioned, X was without his services (the #9 ranked all-purpose back in the nation) for the Glenville game, yet they still won by over 2 TDs.
3) I know less about Mooney, but they appear to be nails this year despite being D4.
I wouldn't be bet the ranch on any sweep.
consumerman
10-08-07, 08:59 AM
Wow, consumerman and bittersweet seem to enjoy make crazy claims about Ohio schools that they apparently know nothing about.
"so Moeller is a top team in the top league in the nation"
- Moeller is at best the 2nd worst team in the GCL this year, and may be the worst
"and wins almost all of its non conference games"
- Moeller was 5-4 last year, and will finish with at least 3, probably 4 losses this year
"and is fan rated as the #7 team in the state"
- this was before this past weeks game, I assume you will correct it when the new rankings come out (and lol at using a "fan" ranking that basically is a measure of the number of people from that school that post on Yappi as part of the argument)
"If it wasn't for a late TD, the game would have ended 20-12"
- nice, actually changing what happened on the field in order to make your argument work; I love how the California posters love to take away X's late score, but not Glenville's; the fact is St X won the game by 15
"Moeller and Elder are "tier 2" in Ohio"
- based on what?
Moeller has made no real noise in the playoffs since 1997, was 5-4 last year, will likely miss the playoffs this year, and just got taken to the woodshed by the #8 ranked team in just the city of Cincinnati
Elder has missed the playoffs 2 years in a row and are in danger of missing again this year; they were ranked #8 in the city going into this week; they just came off a loss to a very mediocre St Ed team, and earlier in the year were taken to the wire by one of the weakest teams in cincy
Neither Moeller or Elder is a top 25 overall team in Ohio by an stretch of the imagination
"I would also like to see St X try to hold DLS to under 28 points, they dont seem to score more than 17-24"
- who doesn't? If you are referring to St X, they average 31 points per game
Since bittersweet likes comparing scores so much, let's do that though. Elder just beat Moeller 49-33. But wait. Two of those scores came late in the game, and apparently late scores don't count in California. So Elder really won by 30 points. Mission Viejo beat Moeller by 4, but one of those scores was at the end of the game, meaning Moeller is actually 3 points better than Mission Viejo. So Elder is 34 points better than Mission Viejo. De La Salle beat Mission Viejo by 28. Therefore, Elder is on par with De La Salle. See, all we need to do is look at the math and it shows us that the #8 team in Cincinnati is on par with a "tier 1" team in California.
ummmm
the posts on ohio schools were QUOTES directly from OHIO posters
I was showing the dichotomy of the the different posts
try reading the entire thread next time before popping off
Since bittersweet likes comparing scores so much, let's do that though. Elder just beat Moeller 49-33. But wait. Two of those scores came late in the game, and apparently late scores don't count in California. So Elder really won by 30 points. Mission Viejo beat Moeller by 4, but one of those scores was at the end of the game, meaning Moeller is actually 3 points better than Mission Viejo. So Elder is 34 points better than Mission Viejo. De La Salle beat Mission Viejo by 28. Therefore, Elder is on par with De La Salle. See, all we need to do is look at the math and it shows us that the #8 team in Cincinnati is on par with a "tier 1" team in California.
Bravo.
consumerman
10-08-07, 09:03 AM
As regards your matchups, they look fine.
1) DLS looks very solid this year. FYI, Colerain would crush MV also. Don't be too confident. Colerain nearly always starts of slow on offense (seems to take a game or two to get the option game clicking). DLS would have their hands full.
2) X has made adjustments to their defense to address pass strong teams and the results are promising (using a 3-2-6). The Elder team that lit up the likes of Indy and Moe had 111 total yards against X. X has given up 7 points since the adjustments (3 games). I would also point out that X coaching staff are proving to be masters at making adjustments this year. Since the DeMatha game they are +37 in the first half
DLS is plus 130 on the first half their adjustments is to put in the second and third strings
and +91 in the second half. Their depth is a factor also. At just about every position they have subs who present little to no drop-off in effectiveness.
Oh, and Darius Ashley is back
last year the Ohio posters said DLS reminds them of St X except they had about 6 Darius AShleys
(did I mention that?). He's the guy that put up about 3,000 yards and nearly 50 TDs as an underclassman. He's just getting warmed up, but last week he put up 170 yards and 3 TDs. As I mentioned, X was without his services (the #9 ranked all-purpose back in the nation) for the Glenville game, yet they still won by over 2 TDs.
3) I know less about Mooney, but they appear to be nails this year despite being D4.
I wouldn't be bet the ranch on any sweep.
I would not bet on any sweep either although the GCL did go winless in the Herbie in 2006
I'm sure those Ohio posters were Elder fans.
I wonder what they were saying about X's defense when it was 24-0 starting off the 4th quarter.
BTW, it appears that DLS is again perhaps the best in Cali (glad to see it, Lad is a class act and one of the greatest coaches ever), with perhaps some competition from MD. What is the current state of the Cali tourney system? Any chance they could meet?
bittersweet
10-08-07, 09:51 AM
BTW, it appears that DLS is again perhaps the best in Cali (glad to see it, Lad is a class act and one of the greatest coaches ever), with perhaps some competition from MD. What is the current state of the Cali tourney system? Any chance they could meet?
Unfortunately, DLS and MD are playing in different divisions.
I predict DLS will play Centennial, which will be no cake walk IMO.
Seems like rule #7 is in effect as well as a couple of addendums in this thread.
7. If your team does lose, it was having a down year, had an injury and was not representative of past or future teams. Likewise the opponent, was the tops of their state/region/hometown and more than likely cheated anyway and got away with several breaks(bad calls by homer refs). By the time the home team gets rolling, or if they would have played last year the home team would win 8/10 times.
*the defense only allowed 47 yards rushing - if you take away the three longest runs by the other teams stud athlete (those three runs accounting for a total of 162 yards).
*the QB/RB/Defense stats would have been even better, but they never played in the second half/fourth quarter/whatever.
Couple of observations:
Who let TexasFrog in? There are a lot of "on pars" and "tier" talk that I have not seen over here before.
It appears like the Herbie organizers only set up CA teams w/crappy opponenets. Probably not on purpose, they seem to be big names, but the Ohio guys are making convincing arguements.
I read several times and participated in discussions about how St. X had no D1 players. I tried to point out that Ashley played, but was shouted down. I guess the 3K yards and 50+ TD's didn;t count towards the talent level when he was an underclassman.
When DLS/SLC were set to meet I thought that SLC matched up way better w/them than MNW. I think DLS would probably roll them as well from the very limited bits I saw them SAturday night. They cut to them late in the second. Not much to see at that point.
consumerman
10-08-07, 10:03 AM
Seems like rule #7 is in effect as well as a couple of addendums in this thread.
Couple of observations:
Who let TexasFrog in? There are a lot of "on pars" and "tier" talk that I have not seen over here before.
It appears like the Herbie organizers only set up CA teams w/crappy opponenets. Probably not on purpose, they seem to be big names, but the Ohio guys are making convincing arguements.
I read several times and participated in discussions about how St. X had no D1 players. I tried to point out that Ashley played, but was shouted down. I guess the 3K yards and 50+ TD's didn;t count towards the talent level when he was an underclassman.
When DLS/SLC were set to meet I thought that SLC matched up way better w/them than MNW. I think DLS would probably roll them as well from the very limited bits I saw them SAturday night. They cut to them late in the second. Not much to see at that point.
Going into this year, I would have thought SLC would easily beay DLS
After the first 4-5 games (DLS had a bye) I am thinking the opposite
Maybe SLC did indeed luck out (even though they lost) in getting MNW insted of DLS
DLS looks good this year but I will say any top team from SoCal including Centennial would have a very good chance against them
The DB Czyz burned for 3 long TDs was supposed to be the #1 DB in SoCal
_________________________________
I saw about 3 bone crunching tackles (one or 2 of them were after nice gains) by the DLS defenders
I also am still amazed at the great downfield blocks by 2 lineman on the 71 yard run, one was 60 YARDS downfield!
Plaindriver
10-08-07, 10:14 AM
BTW, it appears that DLS is again perhaps the best in Cali (glad to see it, Lad is a class act and one of the greatest coaches ever), with perhaps some competition from MD. What is the current state of the Cali tourney system? Any chance they could meet?
Hi Concha,
Re MD doin biz with DLS this yr- -ZERO chance. In out screwy world, imagine that the powers that be (for the state 'bowl', that is) have divided the state into No. & So. There are three classifications for teams for the bowl game, Div 1, 2 and 3, or Big, Middle and Small. Stay with me here; in the So., enrollment parameters are under 1500 for small, under 2500 for middle, and over 2500 for large. BUT, in the North, the numbers are 1000, 1500, and over 2000. (Double the enrollment for single sex schools). MD is bigger than DLS, but is D-2 in the So. DLS is D-1 in the North. Got t? Aint sure I do, really.
Before other posters jump my bones, know that I did NOT research these enrollment numbers and am goin on memory. But I am only trying to illustrate a concept. MD is D-2, and DLS is D-1. The Calpreps site may provide the accurate numbers, and also will list the projected front runners* for each of the 3 state games. (Big * here: a team MUST win their section, in order to be considered for the state game.)
Try this: http://calpreps.com/2007/
PS: Just curious if you have seen any ball close to your home this yr, and just how good (or bad) are the teams in your current neck of the woods. In the upper echelon of SoCal ball, there is a lot of the "A beats B, B beats C, then C beats A" happening. My (worthless) prediction: Birmingham vs DLS for the D-1 state game. Both have a pretty straight forward path, with no known (yet) obstacles. All the rest of Birmingham opponents will come from the 'City section', which means Birmingham has no real games the rest of the yr, right thru the playoffs. If they run the table, they will prob get the nod for the state game. Corona Centennial has 3-4 (real) games left, then the playoffs with a potential for 3 more tuffies. I just dont think they will go unscathed.
Another gem: The gal (yes, female) who is the head of the CIF, and who is responsible for making the picks, is ultra politically correct. She would pick Birmingham (cause the city section is one of the weakest sections, and seen as the red headed stepchild) just to be 'fair', knowing that there are 5-8 teams better than Birmingham to pick from.
Oh, well, the only 'perfect' system is the Indiana basketball championship. In that format, ALL teams qualify for the state tourney. Even the 0-25 teams.
Seems like rule #7 is in effect as well as a couple of addendums in this thread.
Couple of observations:
Who let TexasFrog in? There are a lot of "on pars" and "tier" talk that I have not seen over here before.
It appears like the Herbie organizers only set up CA teams w/crappy opponenets. Probably not on purpose, they seem to be big names, but the Ohio guys are making convincing arguements. [No. Not "crappy". But they weren't the best of the current best. G'ville's highest accomplishment on the field is one (1) regional title. They have never even made the title game. Elder has been a non-entity since 2004 and Moe has not won a regional title 10 years. They are all very good teams, but on these boards we are talking national/regional teams. Like i said earlier, Elder and Moe have 30+ losses in the last few seasons - mainly to very good and ranked teams - but 30+ losses takes away some luster]
I read several times and participated in discussions about how St. X had no D1 players. I tried to point out that Ashley played, but was shouted down. I guess the 3K yards and 50+ TD's didn;t count towards the talent level when he was an underclassman. [Yes, it did. But, for example, when X played Lakeland you had a team with 8-ish major D1s who were seniors, with unknown number of junior D1s, playing a team that had maybe 3-4 identifiable potential D1s playing as underclassmen. More D1s, more experience....]
When DLS/SLC were set to meet I thought that SLC matched up way better w/them than MNW. I think DLS would probably roll them as well from the very limited bits I saw them SAturday night. They cut to them late in the second. Not much to see at that point. [I'm not sure DLS has really faced a top competitor yet, but they are looking damned good it would appear. Is there anyone left on their plate (even come tourney time) who would be a major feather in Lad's cap for this season? The likes of X and SLC will almost assuredly have them given the Ohio and Texas tourneys. MNW may suffer here a bit as Flroida 6A isn't as highly regarded overall]
..........
Oh, well, the only 'perfect' system is the Indiana basketball championship. In that format, ALL teams qualify for the state tourney. Even the 0-25 teams.
Hey PD, good to hear from you.
I know Cali has big issues due to its physical size and population, but damn.... But let's face it, politically correct rules the roost out on the Left(ist) Coast.
We differ on the "perfect system". In my mind the post-season should be earned. No team that goes 0-fer or has a losing regular season should be stepping on a field with teams that have earned and proven themselves with solid records.
bittersweet
10-08-07, 10:36 AM
there is a lot of the "A beats B, B beats C, then C beats A" happening. My (worthless) prediction: Birmingham vs DLS for the D-1 state game. teams.
I'm going to use that AB BC CA logic.
If Birmingham and Centennial both finish with 1 loss before the bowl choices, and their common opponent is Crespi, how can someone logically choose Birmingham over Centennial?
I think the only hope for Birmingham is for Poly to beat Mater Dei in the PAC 5
JMO
consumerman
10-08-07, 10:45 AM
I'm going to use that AB BC CA logic.
If Birmingham and Centennial both finish with 1 loss before the bowl choices, and their common opponent is Crespi, how can someone logically choose Birmingham over Centennial?
I think the only hope for Birmingham is for Poly to beat Mater Dei in the PAC 5
JMO
how do you think Lutheran matches up with the Monarchs?
consumerman
10-08-07, 10:47 AM
ps give me some links to large socal chat boards
i want to see what the southland is saying about MD and the DLS-MV game
bittersweet
10-08-07, 10:52 AM
Since bittersweet likes comparing scores so much, let's do that though. Elder just beat Moeller 49-33. But wait. Two of those scores came late in the game, and apparently late scores don't count in California. So Elder really won by 30 points. Mission Viejo beat Moeller by 4, but one of those scores was at the end of the game, meaning Moeller is actually 3 points better than Mission Viejo. So Elder is 34 points better than Mission Viejo. De La Salle beat Mission Viejo by 28. Therefore, Elder is on par with De La Salle. See, all we need to do is look at the math and it shows us that the #8 team in Cincinnati is on par with a "tier 1" team in California.
You forgot to mention that Elder lost to La Salle.
My main point was, the DLS's and the St. X's are on another tier. I might be wrong categorizing Elder and Moeller as "Tier 2" in Ohio, like Consumerman argues, some Ohio guys talk about how the GCL is the toughest league in America, but then some Ohio guys contradict themselves by saying that Elder, Moe, and La Salle are not even on tier 2 status in Ohio? I don't know.
I don't know much about Ohio football other than what I've read on this site. All JMO's
No. Not "crappy". But they weren't the best of the current best. G'ville's highest accomplishment on the field is one (1) regional title. They have never even made the title game. Elder has been a non-entity since 2004 and Moe has not won a regional title 10 years. They are all very good teams, but on these boards we are talking national/regional teams. Like i said earlier, Elder and Moe have 30+ losses in the last few seasons - mainly to very good and ranked teams - but 30+ losses takes away some luster.
Agree-why do you think these mtchups were set up?
No offense to De Matha or some of the PA schools, but I think the biggest matchups at the event would involve teams from FL/TX/CA.
It appears the organizers are trying to get more of the name OH teams instead of the better ones.
You forgot to mention that Elder lost to La Salle.
My main point was, the DLS's and the St. X's are on another tier. I might be wrong categorizing Elder and Moeller as "Tier 2" in Ohio, like Consumerman argues, some Ohio guys talk about how the GCL is the toughest league in America, but then some Ohio guys contradict themselves by saying that Elder, Moe, and La Salle are not even on tier 2 status in Ohio? I don't know.
I don't know much about Ohio football other than what I've read on this site. All JMO's
It's all a matter of context.
Yes, DLS and X are on another level. No debate there. But despite not being competitive for state titles in recent years, the likes of Elder, Moe and LaSalle are much better than average football teams who, playing more "normal" schedules, would have only a small fraction of the losses they have over the last several years.
I think since the 2004 season, Elder and Moe have +/- 32 losses between them. I did a quick count and 26 of those are due to playing each other, X, Colerain or out-of-state or out-of-region powers (ex. St. Edward). Twenty (20) are due playing each other/X/Colerain/Eds.
Separate Elder and Moe, put them in "normal" leagues playing typical local competition during the regular season and they'd come out 9-1 or 10-0 (maybe 8-2 in a really bad year) just about every season.
You have to take into account that X, Moe and Elder play some of the toughest regular seasons in the nation. No matter what your opinion is of the calpreps Freeman power rating model, it is no coincidence that these teams are at or near the top of the national SOS heap every season. I think one year the GCL had 3 of the top 4 toughest schedules in the country.
Again, you have to put these teams in context.
Agree-why do you think these mtchups were set up?
No offense to De Matha or some of the PA schools, but I think the biggest matchups at the event would involve teams from FL/TX/CA.
It appears the organizers are trying to get more of the name OH teams instead of the better ones.
It's not an easy thing.
DeMatha was undefeated last year and was hyped as maybe the best team to come out of that area of the country in many years. In fact they're doing very well since the herbie.
Hoover gets hyped and is undefeated apart from the Herbie.
I don't disagree that as a general rule FL/TX/Cali would provide the best comp year-in and year-out. But you have to find teams that are ready, willing and able (on both sides). Texas teams apparently have difficulties scheduling in advance and some have displayed an unwillingness to go to Ohio (let's not spar over potential reasons).
Something else could be economics. Elder has been down compared to their title years, but they also draw butts in seats.
And there's only one X and one Colerain in Southwest Ohio, where the event appears to be focused. These are the only programs there right now at a nationally-elite level with any consistency.
The last point is that Ohio is 50% smaller than FL, 1/2 the size of Texas and 1/3 the size of Cali. We've got great football, but let's be reasonable. Even if you could predict Ohio's 10 best teams with perfect accuracy every year, is it fair to match them up versus the top 3-4 teams from the other three top football states given that their combined population approaches 80 million people?
Keep in mind too that no matter what state you talk about, there is usually a noticeable drop in quality from numbers 1-3 and number 10....
Ohio is game, but not masochistic.
It's not an easy thing.
Something else could be economics. Elder has been down compared to their title years, but they also draw butts in seats.
I agree on it not being easy. As more National type matchups happen, I think many fans looking for answers(which state is best etc.) will be disappointed.
Note I was not about competition level from FL/TX/CA, although that is probably treu as well. I was referring to the National Exposure and hype a team from one of these states brings as opposed to PA/DC/NY. May not be fair, but I think there is more interest in those matchups.
I think that makes the most sense. Forget TV revenue, you need gate to get $$.
I agree on it not being easy. As more National type matchups happen, I think many fans looking for answers(which state is best etc.) will be disappointed.
Note I was not about competition level from FL/TX/CA, although that is probably treu as well. I was referring to the National Exposure and hype a team from one of these states brings as opposed to PA/DC/NY. May not be fair, but I think there is more interest in those matchups.
I think that makes the most sense. Forget TV revenue, you need gate to get $$.
I think there is little doubt that Ohio versus FL/TX/CA would provide the biggest buzz.
Perhaps the Herbie needs to seek a balance between these kinds of matchups and versus national powers that are not so distant and might be able to bring along respectable crowds as a result (Pittsburgh-area teams? Indianapolis-area teams like WC?, Chicago-area powers just 6 hours drive away...)? All these areas usually put something in the Top 25 every year.
The Cali boys with be thrilled to see that PrepNation has DLS leaping to #4 in the nation in the latest poll, up from #14. MD is #5.
Centennial dropped just two spots to #15.
Notable:
Ohio, Texas, California and Florida account for 12 of the Top 25 and 7 of the top ten.
Interestingly, Texas has arguably the weakest showing with 2 teams, though they are both top tens. Florida has the most with 4 including #1, though the remaining three fall in the bottom half of the top 25. Cali has two in the top 5, three total. Ohio clocks in at #2, #10 and #11.
DLSfanNW
10-08-07, 12:24 PM
CM,
Here are a couple of links.
http://talk.ocregister.com/showthread.php?t=32125
http://calhisports.rivals.com/forum.asp?sid=1113&fid=1759&style=2
consumerman
10-08-07, 01:20 PM
Nice article on maxpreps.com about the game
http://www.maxpreps.com/FanPages/Content/Article.mxp/ArticleID-7ad63070-797f-434d-9f96-df2c61c1cd94
as coach eidson says: (I had previously said) PICK YOUR POISON
zone us we will run, man us we will pass
also nice comments from SpongeBob: best DLS team he has gone up against
Nice article on maxpreps.com about the game
http://www.maxpreps.com/FanPages/Content/Article.mxp/ArticleID-7ad63070-797f-434d-9f96-df2c61c1cd94
as coach eidson says: (I had previously said) PICK YOUR POISON
zone us we will run, man us we will pass
also nice comments from SpongeBob: best DLS team he has gone up against
I wonder if Lad is rethinking the ability of HS kids being skilled enough to pass more.
Did Johnson ever face a streak team? I thought they started playing MD after it was over. Very likely the best team since then, correct?
Also, does it strike anyone else as funny when someone uses a diaparaging remark about someone and in the same breath implies their opinion is to be respected?
consumerman
10-08-07, 02:52 PM
I wonder if Lad is rethinking the ability of HS kids being skilled enough to pass more.
Did Johnson ever face a streak team? I thought they started playing MD after it was over. Very likely the best team since then, correct?
Also, does it strike anyone else as funny when someone uses a diaparaging remark about someone and in the same breath implies their opinion is to be respected?
as usual a texan trying to stir the pot
what's new
we wil start from the last
spongebob is not my nickname for him, it was given to him be fellow orange countians for his ability to spirit away OC talent from other schools. I am used to texans ignoring something until I say it then trying to make a case out of it. YAWN
DLS began playing MV in in 2004.
FYI MV had many seasons when they were nationally ranked, one of them ended with an upset loss in the playoffs
DLS who we all knew had their worst athletic talent in 20 years heading into 2004, (and that was before Coach Lad's near fatal heart attack, The murder of 2003 MVP Terrance Kelly, and then losing their top two lineman to preseason injuries) had scheduled 3 time Washington state champ and national top ten Bellevue, Fresno power Clovis West, CCS Power Palma, and national top three Mission Viejo.
Mission Viejo had perhaps their best team ever in 2004, finishing in some polls national #2. They played DLS's weakest team in 20 years, a team, that won 2 of its first 7 games. Late in the 4th Q (about 2 minutes left in the game) the game was tied 14-14 and DLS had the ball deep inside MV territory. DLS went for it on 4th and 1, and were stopped. Future USC QB Mark Sanchez threw a couple of long passes and their FG kicker kicked a long FG as the clock wound down for a 17-14 win.
IN 2005, DLS played MV at MV. DLS led 26-22 going into the 4th Q, but MV big 250 lb FB wore down the young Spartans in the 4th Q and MV won coming from behind 36-26. Oh ya, at the time of the game MV was rated #2 in the nation (one poll had them #1).
In 2006, DLS jumped to a 35-15 4th Q game on national TV, MV scored with about 6 minutes left and literally as time expired to make the DLS win seem closer than it actually was 35-28.
IN 2007, DLS handily defeated MV 35-7, giving them their first loss on their home field in 8 years
recap 2004 national top three MV is fortunate to escape with a 3 point win over a rather poor DLS team
2005 DLS leads in the 4th Q until MV overpowered them in the 4th Q
2006, 2007, DLS has huge leads over MV (21, 28 points), one year MV hangs in there to make the score respectable, not quite the same in 2007
consumerman
10-08-07, 02:55 PM
as for Coach Lad "rethinking" passing abilities you have missed the mark by a long shot here
See Matt Gutierrez as example
its just Coach Lad is not like those Texas teams who wing the ball downfield to build up stats 40 times a game when leading by 40 plus points
___________________________
maybe you ought to take advice from your fellow Texan who called you out for nitpicking other posts
also ask Mater Dei and Matt Leinart and Coach Rollinson about Coach Lad and the DLS passing game when a sophomore from DLS torched them for 300 yards and 6 TDs
ask 18 time state champion Honolulu St Louis who said DLS attacks you all over the field
ask LB Poly who got burned for 3 TD passes (all over 30 yards) in 2002 when they were rated #2 in the nation
dont let the facts get in the way of your hype
dont let the facts get in the way of your hype
I had to shake my head and laugh when I. read this.
From the guy who bends over backward pimping Cali wins at the Herbie over teams that either didn't even make the Ohio tourney or look unlikely to do so....
consumerman
10-08-07, 03:13 PM
concha
you and i both know for a fact you went on dls boards for years and said cali teams and especially dls would never win if they played ohio teams
that u still stick around and use the same name after all your HYPE was destroyed ON THE FIELD amazes me
consumerman
10-08-07, 03:20 PM
as usual a texan trying to stir the pot
what's new
we wil start from the last
spongebob is not my nickname for him, it was given to him be fellow orange countians for his ability to spirit away OC talent from other schools. I am used to texans ignoring something until I say it then trying to make a case out of it. YAWN
DLS began playing MV in in 2004.
FYI MV had many seasons when they were nationally ranked, one of them ended with an upset loss in the playoffs
DLS who we all knew had their worst athletic talent in 20 years heading into 2004, (and that was before Coach Lad's near fatal heart attack, The murder of 2003 MVP Terrance Kelly, and then losing their top two lineman to preseason injuries) had scheduled 3 time Washington state champ and national top ten Bellevue, Fresno power Clovis West, CCS Power Palma, and national top three Mission Viejo.
Mission Viejo had perhaps their best team ever in 2004, finishing in some polls national #2. They played DLS's weakest team in 20 years, a team, that won 2 of its first 7 games. Late in the 4th Q (about 2 minutes left in the game) the game was tied 14-14 and DLS had the ball deep inside MV territory. DLS went for it on 4th and 1, and were stopped. Future USC QB Mark Sanchez threw a couple of long passes and their FG kicker kicked a long FG as the clock wound down for a 17-14 win.
IN 2005, DLS played MV at MV. DLS led 26-22 going into the 4th Q, but MV big 250 lb FB wore down the young Spartans in the 4th Q and MV won coming from behind 36-26. Oh ya, at the time of the game MV was rated #2 in the nation (one poll had them #1).
In 2006, DLS jumped to a 35-15 4th Q game on national TV, MV scored with about 6 minutes left and literally as time expired to make the DLS win seem closer than it actually was 35-28.
IN 2007, DLS handily defeated MV 35-7, giving them their first loss on their home field in 8 years
recap 2004 national top three MV is fortunate to escape with a 3 point win over a rather poor DLS team
2005 DLS leads in the 4th Q until MV overpowered them in the 4th Q
2006, 2007, DLS has huge leads over MV (21, 28 points), one year MV hangs in there to make the score respectable, not quite the same in 2007
PS
Spongebob would conveniently have bye weeks the games before DLS, a little bit of gamesmanship to get an advantage
concha
you and i both know for a fact you went on dls boards for years and said cali teams and especially dls would never win if they played ohio teams
that u still stick around and use the same name after all your HYPE was destroyed ON THE FIELD amazes me
I think specifically I stated that DLS's streak would not have been as long had they played in Ohio D1. Beyond that, I believe you are taking liberties a la "Moe and Elder being amongst Ohio's best". Nothing has happened to change that view.
DLS was only one of four different teams that abused Elder badly in 2006. One was a D3-sized division school from Indiana. X and Moe beat Elder pretty soundly. Moe had 5 losses. X got beaten up by Colerain.
MV barely beat a Moe team that was raped last week by Elder, who was shut out by X. Moe could well end up with 3 more losses by season's end. MV would be no great shakes in SW Ohio.
Poly beat G'ville, who actually outgained them if memory serves. Kudos. G'ville is not in the top eight in their region and may well sit out the tourney.
Cali has three wins over teams that either did not or will not compete for the state title in Ohio. Far from it, in fact. If that gives you confidence, then I am thrilled for you.
consumerman
10-08-07, 03:37 PM
One was a D3-sized division school from Indiana
you conveniently left off they were a 14-1 state champion
your bad
that is like saying Mooney os only a D4 Ohio team
get real
Yes You can explain away the three losses all you want and whatever makes you feel good
cali teams have no losses to explain away
consumerman
10-08-07, 03:43 PM
PS
Spongebob would conveniently have bye weeks the games before DLS, a little bit of gamesmanship to get an advantage
some more on SpongeBob
He and his school were punished for cheating in a SS playoof game, They were supposed to use a certain FB, SpongeBob took his team's own footballs that they use and painted them to look like the official playoff football, his balls were supposedly smaller and easier to pass with
People who were at the game said he harangued the referees the entire game, possibly why there were a couple of no-see false starts on DLS
ANd lastly, some OC friends told some DLS fans that in MV whopping one-sided victory over the DLS JV team, MV actually moved 6-8 varsity players down to JV to play. Seems the varsity could have used the help
You can look at this two ways... he will do anything to get his team an advantage
or
he really has poor sportsmanship
as usual a texan trying to stir the pot
what's new
we wil start from the last
spongebob is not my nickname for him, it was given to him be fellow orange countians for his ability to spirit away OC talent from other schools. I am used to texans ignoring something until I say it then trying to make a case out of it. YAWN-I know this is his nickname for people who do not like him. I have seen it for some time. I just find it funny when people do such things adn expect people to respect what he says.
DLS began playing MV in in 2004.-So his comments are not really that surprising, correct? Does anyone dispute this is DLS best club in the last three years?
DLS who we all knew had their worst athletic talent in 20 years heading into 2004,.....
Mission Viejo had perhaps their best team ever in 2004, finishing in some polls national #2. They played DLS's weakest team in 20 years, a team, that won 2 of its first 7 games.
Again Rule #7. Appears you almost quoted it verbatim:
7. If your team does lose, it was having a down year, had an injury and was not representative of past or future teams. Likewise the opponent, was the tops of their state/region/hometown and more than likely cheated anyway and got away with several breaks(bad calls by homer refs). By the time the home team gets rolling, or if they would have played last year the home team would win 8/10 times.
Why get hung up about the bye week? Is that not smart scheduling or even a sign of respect? Is it really a big deal?
One was a D3-sized division school from Indiana
you conveniently left off they were a 14-1 state champion
your bad
that is like saying Mooney os only a D4 Ohio team
get real
Yes You can explain away the three losses all you want and whatever makes you feel good
cali teams have no losses to explain away
So what? The fact remains that DLS did no more than said D3 Indiana champion (that looks SOOOOOO much stronger), than 5-loss Moe or an X team that got squished by Colerain (who themselves lost in the semis).
I am happy that you are happy that Cali is 3-0 in the Herbie, though pimping those wins might mean a little more if the Ohio teams you beat actually at least make it to the post-season.
Here's a bone for you: In 1998, Clovis West beat Massillon. Massillon won four whole games that year. CW were CC champs.
as for Coach Lad "rethinking" passing abilities you have missed the mark by a long shot here
See Matt Gutierrez as example
its just Coach Lad is not like those Texas teams who wing the ball downfield to build up stats 40 times a game when leading by 40 plus points
Don't get mad at me, Lad's the one that doesn't think the HS player is skilled enough to be in an exclusive passing offense.
DLSfanNW
10-08-07, 03:58 PM
I flew down for this game and was more then a little nervous when I saw the DLS JVs get whacked 38-7 and MV tear down the field and score quickly on their opening drive but as the game wore on it was obvious the DLS lines on both sides were wearing out their opponents and the long punishing drives at the end just killed the clock thus not allowing any last minute drama to this game like last year.
MLB Brady Amack hits like a mack truck and QB Macgillvary delivered two of the prettiest long passes for TDs I have ever seen.
MV is a quality opponent though and this was a thoroughly satisfying win.
consumerman
10-08-07, 04:15 PM
Don't get mad at me, Lad's the one that doesn't think the HS player is skilled enough to be in an exclusive passing offense.
what nonsense is this?
there is a national power that is an exclusive passing offense?
name it
and now you speak for coach Lad?
wow
consumerman
10-08-07, 04:18 PM
I flew down for this game and was more then a little nervous when I saw the DLS JVs get whacked 38-7 and MV tear down the field and score quickly on their opening drive but as the game wore on it was obvious the DLS lines on both sides were wearing out their opponents and the long punishing drives at the end just killed the clock thus not allowing any last minute drama to this game like last year.
MLB Brady Amack hits like a mack truck and QB Macgillvary delivered two of the prettiest long passes for TDs I have ever seen.
MV is a quality opponent though and this was a thoroughly satisfying win.
I dont get the OC newspapers and the annoncer (john Jackson who I usually like) they both siad MV shouldacoulda last year if they just had more time
my recollection is dls was leading 35-14 midway through the 4th and MV scored to make it 35-21 and then scored as time expired against the DLS scrubs
ran out of time?
the game wasnot in doubt
consumerman
10-08-07, 04:20 PM
So what? The fact remains that DLS did no more than said D3 Indiana champion (that looks SOOOOOO much stronger), than 5-loss Moe or an X team that got squished by Colerain (who themselves lost in the semis).
I am happy that you are happy that Cali is 3-0 in the Herbie, though pimping those wins might mean a little more if the Ohio teams you beat actually at least make it to the post-season.
Here's a bone for you: In 1998, Clovis West beat Massillon. Massillon won four whole games that year. CW were CC champs.
do whatever you want to explain away the 0-3 record
okay?
consumerman
10-08-07, 04:23 PM
#7. Appears you almosAgain Rule t quoted it verbatim:
7. If your team does lose, it was having a down year, had an injury and was not representative of past or future teams. Likewise the opponent, was the tops of their state/region/hometown and more than likely cheated anyway and got away with several breaks(bad calls by homer refs). By the time the home team gets rolling, or if they would have played last year the home team would win 8/10 times.
I think that would be a nice excuse if your time lost the one game (like SLC this year)
I think if you start out not winning 5 of your first 7 gamnes, after going 20 years winning all but 5 games, it is not a hard fact to comprehend
that doesnt seem to the same in your case
do whatever you want to explain away the 0-3 record
okay?
I'm not explaining away a thing. I just find your insatiable appetite for pimping them to be hilarious.
"MV beat one of Ohio's best". Classic. That must make Elder awesome, which explains their dubious post-season qualification situation, and St. X NFL-like.
what nonsense is this?
there is a national power that is an exclusive passing offense?
name it
and now you speak for coach Lad?
wow
I don't speak for Coach Lad, where did I say I did?
#7. Appears you almosAgain Rule t quoted it verbatim:
7. If your team does lose, it was having a down year, had an injury and was not representative of past or future teams. Likewise the opponent, was the tops of their state/region/hometown and more than likely cheated anyway and got away with several breaks(bad calls by homer refs). By the time the home team gets rolling, or if they would have played last year the home team would win 8/10 times.
I think that would be a nice excuse if your time lost the one game (like SLC this year)
I think if you start out not winning 5 of your first 7 gamnes, after going 20 years winning all but 5 games, it is not a hard fact to comprehend
that doesnt seem to the same in your case
What is "my case"?
Quite honestly no idea what you are trying to say. Your writing is very difficult to comprehend.
FormerWildcat
10-08-07, 05:01 PM
While I'd agree that Elder & Moeller consistently get overrated in the early season polls, and inflate people's perspective of wins over them, I still think the Long Beach Poly win over Cleveland Glenville is very "legit." The Tarblooders are just the victim of playing a completely insane non-league schedule this year and being stuck in a terrible league.
I don't think any honest high school football observer in Cleveland would have them worse than third in a metro Cleveland poll. I'd find it hard to believe they're any worse than top 15 in all of Ohio.
For Glenville to come down to Cincy, and go toe-to-toe with the Bombers on their home field tells me all I really need to know about them. I don't think the De La Salle win over Cincinnati Elder, or Mission Viejo's win over Cincinnati Moeller are terribly meaningful on a larger scale, though.
I just think Moeller & Elder have been riding on St. Xavier's coattails for a few years now in terms of reputation. They get invited to the Herbie, because they can put butts in seats and/or hark back to a bygone era. There's nothing intrinscally wrong with that, but you have to see it for what it is.
PhillyBomber
10-08-07, 05:06 PM
LMAO????
Go to the opening page on thos forum, I realize it is a fans vote p either you all are very bad at ranking teams or Moeller is not as bad as you are making them out to be, standard excuse when a team from out of state beats one of the powers from your best league
One of the powers? Moeller will be last in the GCL this year bud. Learn to read :)
UncleBaldy
10-08-07, 06:26 PM
One of the powers? Moeller will be last in the GCL this year bud. Learn to read :)
I agree with you that Moe is not one of the powers in the state, being merely a better than average football team. However, your second comment is disingenuous. Elder will finish GCL play at 1-2, LaSalle will finish at 1-2, Moeller, unless they beat St. X, will finish 1-2. All three will finish last with regard to the conference, out of conference play be damned.
Plaindriver
10-08-07, 08:03 PM
Hey PD, good to hear from you.
I know Cali has big issues due to its physical size and population, but damn.... But let's face it, politically correct rules the roost out on the Left(ist) Coast.
We differ on the "perfect system". In my mind the post-season should be earned. No team that goes 0-fer or has a losing regular season should be stepping on a field with teams that have earned and proven themselves with solid records.
You make a valid point. That didnt occur to me, re the 0-fer team. I was thinkin about Ohio and the Harben pts. You could have the #5 team in Cincy not get invited to the show, even tho they might be better than 23-25 other teams from other areas that did get invited. In the Indiana BB tourney, that anomaly cant happen. Thats all I was getting at.
Hey, been to any good ball near home this yr? I see the highly ranked Roswell has skinned their knee a couple times already.
Plaindriver
10-08-07, 08:10 PM
I'm going to use that AB BC CA logic.
If Birmingham and Centennial both finish with 1 loss before the bowl choices, and their common opponent is Crespi, how can someone logically choose Birmingham over Centennial?
I think the only hope for Birmingham is for Poly to beat Mater Dei in the PAC 5
JMO
I would say, that if both CC and Bham run the table, CC deserves the nod. Deserves being the key word. You dont understand the PC crowd on the left coast. Two yrs ago, the CIF powers had a 4 day pow-wow at an expensive resort hotel in San Diego to determine who they would pick for the state games, IF! they were being held in '05. For D-1 from the South, they chose Crenshaw! Helll, there were at east 20 other picks that were better than Crenshaw. But since the nominee had to be a 'section' winner, that number was reduced to about 12-14 or so. Crenshaw would have lost by 50 in the state game that yr. Its just my position that Bham will get the nod if both run the table, cause Bham and the city section of the CIF are seen as 'have nots' or as being 'underprivileged'. I aint saying its right, but rather how I think things will play out. Hope Im wrong.
St.X fan2
10-08-07, 08:48 PM
State playoffs? No? ok come back when you have one of those
cali has no quality teams then because there is not a playoff of their TEN section winners???
Ohio has what 4 sections? and it takes what TWO games to win a section?
wow
consumer:
Ohio has 4 regions and it takes three games to win the region not 2. Each region gets 8 teams in the playoffs and after 3 wins then each of the region winners is in the final 4. It takes 5 playoff wins to win the state title in Ohio.
cubbyphan
10-08-07, 09:49 PM
You forgot to mention that Elder lost to La Salle.
My main point was, the DLS's and the St. X's are on another tier. I might be wrong categorizing Elder and Moeller as "Tier 2" in Ohio, like Consumerman argues, some Ohio guys talk about how the GCL is the toughest league in America, but then some Ohio guys contradict themselves by saying that Elder, Moe, and La Salle are not even on tier 2 status in Ohio? I don't know.
I don't know much about Ohio football other than what I've read on this site. All JMO's
Fair enough. I agree that DLS and St X are in another tier. I would love to see them play each other this year. DLS is a great team. Their coaching is as good as I have seen. I don't agree that LBP is on the same tier with these teams though.
I would also say that year in and year out Elder and Moeller are Tier 2 Ohio teams. Both have been down the last couple years. They are still very good schools. Even among Ohio schools they are way better than average, and in most states they would be elite schools (see Elder's victory over Independence). They just aren't among the best schools in Ohio, as consumerman implies they are.
consumerman
10-08-07, 10:39 PM
Fair enough. I agree that DLS and St X are in another tier. I would love to see them play each other this year. DLS is a great team. Their coaching is as good as I have seen. I don't agree that LBP is on the same tier with these teams though.
I would also say that year in and year out Elder and Moeller are Tier 2 Ohio teams. Both have been down the last couple years. They are still very good schools. Even among Ohio schools they are way better than average, and in most states they would be elite schools (see Elder's victory over Independence). They just aren't among the best schools in Ohio, as consumerman implies they are.
All I am trying to find out is (you Ohio guys be the judge)
Is how can a league be the BEST in the nation
when
1) it only has 4 teams
2) 3/4 of those teams are ok but not elite teams
why then is it the BEST league in the nation
something just isn't right
Bordertown
10-08-07, 11:18 PM
What league is better? The problem Consumedman is that you then to view leagues in highschool like college conferences or NFL divisions. While I am a big fan of Texas football I would concede this is possibly the best league in the country year end and year out.
Glad to see your ignorance of the Ohio playoff system. Ohio divides the state into 4 regions geographically to facilitate a statewide playoff system. ALL four regions feed into a state championship. I don't think anyone is arguing California does not have good football teams. California does not have a way for these good teams to have an opportunity to play each other. I will head you off at El Paso - Yes you are correct not all 5A teams in Texas have an opportunity to play each other for a unified state championship. But for each state championship in Texas, all areas of the state are represented.
All I am trying to find out is (you Ohio guys be the judge)
Is how can a league be the BEST in the nation
when
1) it only has 4 teams
2) 3/4 of those teams are ok but not elite teams
why then is it the BEST league in the nation
something just isn't right
Your concern insn't over the GCL's reputation. It is all about pimping Cali wins at the Herbie, especially as they relate to DLS.
DLSfanNW
10-09-07, 07:20 AM
There are no weak teams in the GCL. Any one of the four could contend for State any given year. I have not heard of another league where this is the case.
That said when they lose to a Cali team then they were conveniently "down".
There are no weak teams in the GCL. Any one of the four could contend for State any given year. I have not heard of another league where this is the case.
That said when they lose to a Cali team then they were conveniently "down".
Disagree here.
In any one year usually at least one, and maybe two GCL teams are considered strong candidates to go for state. Beyond that the situation is that you have a league of four teams that, if combined with just about any other league, would take the most of the top spots in the league table at the end of the season. The GCL's doormat in any given year would likely be at least a bronze or silver medal contender in other, larger leagues around the state and nation.
consumerman
10-09-07, 09:03 AM
What league is better? The problem Consumedman is that you then to view leagues in highschool like college conferences or NFL divisions. While I am a big fan of Texas football I would concede this is possibly the best league in the country year end and year out.
Glad to see your ignorance of the Ohio playoff system. Ohio divides the state into 4 regions geographically to facilitate a statewide playoff system. ALL four regions feed into a state championship. I don't think anyone is arguing California does not have good football teams. California does not have a way for these good teams to have an opportunity to play each other. I will head you off at El Paso - Yes you are correct not all 5A teams in Texas have an opportunity to play each other for a unified state championship. But for each state championship in Texas, all areas of the state are represented.
my "ignorance" was I thought there was 2 regional games not 3
what an incredible oversight
texans\
sheesh
Chicago
10-09-07, 09:26 AM
In the first eight years of Ohio's system (1972-1979) one (that's right, one) team from each region made the playoffs. And there were three classes, I believe, rather than six. So 12 playoff teams rather than 192.
So each region was represented, but, I imagine, often poorly.
I don't really have a feel for who is good and who isn't in Ohio this year, but I imagine the Ohio guys wouldn't be thrilled by a playoff bracket in AAA (which would be Divison I and Division II together, probably) that consisted of Tallmadge, Brunswick, Hilliard Darby, and St. Xavier, for example. And no one else.
http://www.joeeitel.com/hsfoot/
Ohio is just well ahead of where California is. Because Ohio started in 1972 about where California is starting now.
There are no weak teams in the GCL. Any one of the four could contend for State any given year. I have not heard of another league where this is the case.
That said when they lose to a Cali team then they were conveniently "down".
Let's be honest here.
Most of the "defeated" teams discussed in this thread were not having great years when they were defeated.
- 2006 Elder was poor by their own standards and wasn't an elite team in Ohio last year year.
- 2007 Moeller is not an elite Ohio team this year (at least it doesn't seem like it so far).
- 2007 Mission Viejo is not an elite California team this year. They've lost twice already and are barely in the California Top 25. They lost to a team ranked around 1,700th nationally. Not impressive.
All of the wins over these teams were good, solid wins . . . but . . . . nothing extraordinary.
DLSfanNW
10-09-07, 01:44 PM
Being in the top 25 in California is comperable to being in the top 25 in Texas.
MV had not lost at home in eight years...Not exactly playing MNW but at least they won.
DLSfanNW
10-09-07, 01:48 PM
Let's be honest here.
Most of the "defeated" teams discussed in this thread were not having great years when they were defeated.
- 2006 Elder was poor by their own standards and wasn't an elite team in Ohio last year year.
- 2007 Moeller is not an elite Ohio team this year (at least it doesn't seem like it so far).
- 2007 Mission Viejo is not an elite California team this year. They've lost twice already and are barely in the California Top 25. They lost to a team ranked around 1,700th nationally. Not impressive.
All of the wins over these teams were good, solid wins . . . but . . . . nothing extraordinary.Would you still consider the 'ragons "Elite" after giving up ANY points to a team ranked in the 7000s?
WINS: #344 Rockwall (TX) (49-42), #569 Heritage (Colleyville, TX) (42-14), #2651 Lake Highlands (Dallas, TX) (42-10), #7159 Keller Central (Keller, TX) (63-16), LOSSES: #4 Northwestern (Miami, FL) (29-21)
Would you still consider the 'ragons "Elite" after giving up ANY points to a team ranked in the 7000s?
WINS: #344 Rockwall (TX) (49-42), #569 Heritage (Colleyville, TX) (42-14), #2651 Lake Highlands (Dallas, TX) (42-10), #7159 Keller Central (Keller, TX) (63-16), LOSSES: #4 Northwestern (Miami, FL) (29-21)
Where would you rank them?
Chicago
10-09-07, 03:35 PM
343.
Just kidding.
steeler 01
10-09-07, 04:43 PM
Why get hung up about the bye week? Is that not smart scheduling or even a sign of respect? Is it really a big deal?
In 2004 DLS had a bye prior to playing Mission. Mission had just played Poly to. 2005 Mission had the bye and DLS did not. 2006 same thing. 2007 They both had a bye prior to the game.
consumerman
10-09-07, 04:45 PM
DLS does not schedule byes
they only had a bye this year because one team cancelled on them and only have 9 scheduled games
They played 10 games in 2004
show me the proof and I will believe you
consumerman
10-09-07, 04:48 PM
In 2004 DLS had a bye prior to playing Mission. Mission had just played Poly to. 2005 Mission had the bye and DLS did not. 2006 same thing. 2007 They both had a bye prior to the game.
and of course the recruitng of national player of the year Mark Sanchez from Marg and others and the cheating in the playoff games and moving varsity pkayers down to jv against dls go unanswered
steeler 01
10-09-07, 04:51 PM
DLS does not schedule byes
they only had a bye this year because one team cancelled on them and only have 9 scheduled games
They played 10 games in 2004
show me the proof and I will believe you
http://www.calpreps.com/cgi-bin/2004/view_league.pl?section_or_state=2&league=Bay_Valley
They played mitty and then 2 weeks later played Mission.
consumerman
10-09-07, 04:53 PM
http://www.calpreps.com/cgi-bin/2004/view_league.pl?section_or_state=2&league=Bay_Valley
They played mitty and then 2 weeks later played Mission.
I have read an sfgate.com preseason note on dls and you are correct they had a bye week in 2004. Maybe that is why that powerful nationally rabked MV team only squeasked by on a late FG
steeler 01
10-09-07, 04:54 PM
and of course the recruitng of national player of the year Mark Sanchez from Marg and others and the cheating in the playoff games and moving varsity pkayers down to jv against dls go unanswered
Whats that have to do with my post? If they moved varsity players down to the J.V. I'd imagine it's because their not good enough to play on the varsity. Would any coach move a player that is key to his team down to play in the J.V. game to win?
consumerman
10-09-07, 04:55 PM
Let's be honest here.
Most of the "defeated" teams discussed in this thread were not having great years when they were defeated.
- 2006 Elder was poor by their own standards and wasn't an elite team in Ohio last year year.
- 2007 Moeller is not an elite Ohio team this year (at least it doesn't seem like it so far).
- 2007 Mission Viejo is not an elite California team this year. They've lost twice already and are barely in the California Top 25. They lost to a team ranked around 1,700th nationally. Not impressive.
All of the wins over these teams were good, solid wins . . . but . . . . nothing extraordinary.
I guess extraoridnary wins are 49-42 no D texas games where you trailed for 3/4 of the game
I guess extraoridnary wins are 49-42 no D texas games where you trailed for 3/4 of the game
It would appear you need to listen to some of your own advice:
You have been advised to QUIT guessing at other people's thoughts feelings and motives and speaking for them
you should ask yourself that before GUESSING what others say feel and think
got it MR INCREDIBILITY?
Who said the Rockwall win was extraordinary?
Being in the top 25 in California is comperable to being in the top 25 in Texas.
MV had not lost at home in eight years...Not exactly playing MNW but at least they won.
I agree that the top 25 in Calif is probably comparable to the top 25 in Texas.
Like I said, DLS's victory over MV was a solid win, but let's be honest, MV is not an elite team this year.
Some posters are trying to say that the wins over 2006 Elder, 2007 Moe and 2007 MV are great wins. They are not. That's the point.
Would you still consider the 'ragons "Elite" after giving up ANY points to a team ranked in the 7000s?
WINS: #344 Rockwall (TX) (49-42), #569 Heritage (Colleyville, TX) (42-14), #2651 Lake Highlands (Dallas, TX) (42-10), #7159 Keller Central (Keller, TX) (63-16), LOSSES: #4 Northwestern (Miami, FL) (29-21)
There is no doubt that SLC is still deserving of being considered an elite team in both Texas and in the USA. They have will have the chance to prove or disprove that status as the season progresses.
Sorry that a 63-16 win isn't good enough for you. Sheesh.
I agree that the top 25 in Calif is probably comparable to the top 25 in Texas.
Like I said, DLS's victory over MV was a solid win, but let's be honest, MV is not an elite team this year.
Some posters are trying to say that the wins over 2006 Elder, 2007 Moe and 2007 MV are great wins. They are not. That's the point.
It would appear by that definition that SLC has very few if any wins over elite teams. Trinity? Katy? Maybe one or two and that's about it right?
consumerman
10-09-07, 05:53 PM
most people's definition of an elite team is a decent team that MY TEAM happened to beat (see 10-4 and 7-5 SLC opponents last year)
most people's definition of a good but not elite team is ANY TEAM that loses to a team I AM JEALOUS of
enough said
It would appear by that definition that SLC has very few if any wins over elite teams. Trinity? Katy? Maybe one or two and that's about it right?
Not exactly.
If we did the research we would probably come up with 10-20 SLC wins over Texas Top 10 teams (in the last five years alone).
Off the top of my head:
Trinity Top 10
Westlake Top 10
Lufkin (three times) Top 10 all three times
Plano Top 10
Midland Lee (twice) Top 10 both times (end of season polls)
Smithson Valley (twice) Top 10 both times
Allen (four times) Top 10 for some games
Denton Ryan (twice) Top 10 at least one game
Abilene (twice) Top 10 one game
Heritage (six times) Top 10 two games.
There are probably more.
consumerman
10-09-07, 05:59 PM
Not exactly.
If we did the research we would probably come up with 10-20 SLC wins over Texas Top 10 teams (in the last five years alone).
Off the top of my head:
Trinity Top 10
Westlake Top 10
Lufkin (three times) Top 10 all three times
Plano Top 10
Midland Lee (twice) Top 10 both times (end of season polls)
Smithson Valley (twice) Top 10 both times
Allen (four times) Top 10 for some games
Denton Ryan (twice) Top 10 at least one game
Abilene (twice) Top 10 one game
Heritage (six times) Top 10 two games.
There are probably more.
you are dreaming
westlake was NOT a top ten team
and I wont even go into these Mildland Lee BS
consumerman
10-09-07, 06:02 PM
westlake 2006 ranking 57
does that mean top ten to texans??
you are dreaming
westlake was NOT a top ten team
and I wont even go into these Mildland Lee BS
Westlake finished the 2006 season in the Texas Top 10
Midland Lee finished the 2003 and 2004 seasons in the Texas Top 10
consumerman
10-09-07, 06:03 PM
in 2006 NO TEXAS teams other than SLC finished in the top ten
and as daditis, mr incredibility says, the only ranking that matters is where you finish
consumerman
10-09-07, 06:05 PM
In 2005, no team in Texas besides SLC finished in the top ten
0 for 2
consumerman
10-09-07, 06:06 PM
Westlake finished the 2006 season in the Texas Top 10
Midland Lee finished the 2003 and 2004 seasons in the Texas Top 10
oh heck
daditis says an elite team is one that finished in the texas top ten
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
what a joke
in 2006 NO TEXAS teams other than SLC finished in the top ten
and as daditis, mr incredibility says, the only ranking that matters is where you finish
It appears you can't read. LOL
Go back and read my post closely. LOL
Take it one word at a time. LOL
In 2005, no team in Texas besides SLC finished in the top ten
0 for 2
It appears you can't read. LOL
Go back and read my post closely. LOL
Take it one word at a time. LOL
oh heck
daditis says an elite team is one that finished in the texas top ten
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
what a joke
LOL You are the crack pot pimping wins over 2006 Elder and 2007 MV as great wins. Neither of these teams were anywhere close to their state's Top 10.
consumerman
10-09-07, 06:09 PM
It appears you can't read. LOL
Go back and read my post closely. LOL
Take it one word at a time. LOL
WRONG
you need to read the OTHER POST that says it appears SLC has NO or very few wins over elite teams
LOL x 1 million
then you CHANGED the game by saying oh Texas top ten teams
I wouild submit very few TEXAS top ten teams (maybe 1 a year and that happens to be SLC) are elite teams
you changed the game again mr slippery
doesnt work
consumerman
10-09-07, 06:10 PM
LOL You are the crack pot pimping wins over 2006 Elder and 2007 MV as great wins. Neither of these teams were anywhere close to their state's Top 10.
watch out SLC
we will send a team from another state that plays defense and you will choke away 5 turnovers in a nationally televised game
watch out
WRONG
you need to read the OTHER POST that says it appears SLC has NO or very few wins over elite teams
LOL x 1 million
then you CHANGED the game by saying oh Texas top ten teams
I wouild submit very few TEXAS top twn teams (maybe 1 a year and that happens to be SLC) are elite teams
you changed the game again mr slippery
doesnt work
I didn't change anything. It's YOU who didn't get it the first time. LOL
Read the posts next time.
watch out SLC
we will send a team from another state that plays defense and you will choke away 5 turnovers in a nationally televised game
watch out
You did it again.
You lose a debate so the best you can do is change the subject.
Typical. LOL
consumerman
10-09-07, 06:14 PM
reread (or for the first time) read post 149
from your fellow texan
i agree with him
slc had their chance this year against an elite team
and they were exposed
reread (or for the first time) read post 149
from your fellow texan
i agree with him
slc had their chance this year against an elite team
and they were exposed
LOL You are goofy.
I think you mean post 129. LOL
It was a response to my comment about STATE top 25 ratings.
The point is that 2006 Elder and 2007 MV are NOT elite teams even in their own state. LOL
SLC has won 20+ games against Texas elite teams (elite = state top 10).
consumerman
10-09-07, 07:27 PM
name an elite national team SLC has beaten
and quit the top ten texas sideshow
oh wait now it is texas 25
YAWN
consumerman
10-09-07, 07:27 PM
LOL You are goofy.
I think you mean post 129. LOL
It was a response to my comment about STATE top 25 ratings.
The point is that 2006 Elder and 2007 MV are NOT elite teams even in their own state. LOL
SLC has won 20+ games against Texas elite teams (elite = state top 10).
show me the thread where i called MV 2007 an elite team
thread title
thread post #
date and time
OMG, please stop... :wallbang:
Plaindriver
10-09-07, 07:40 PM
LOL You are goofy.
I think you mean post 129. LOL
It was a response to my comment about STATE top 25 ratings.
The point is that 2006 Elder and 2007 MV are NOT elite teams even in their own state. LOL
SLC has won 20+ games against Texas elite teams (elite = state top 10).
I was in this bar in Jakarta, China the other day. I start talking to a well built guy, about 30 yrs old. He tells me that he played for SLC for 3 years and just (re) graduated again 2 yrs ago. He said SLC routinely signs up guys who wash out of the Cowboys or Titans taxi squad and reinsert them into one of the several SLC HS campuses, and allow them to play three more yrs of football. He says the academic help in getting his GED was invaluable. Further, he mentioned that every year, there are a handful in this same situation magically "transferring" into the SLC program. He claims its a type of 'reach out' program to give certain guys a second chance, and to help them stay in shape.
I have no reason do doubt his authenticity or honor. Seemed like a decent guys to me! Im sure he is telling the truth. I mean, why would he lie?
consumerman
10-09-07, 07:55 PM
I would say MV is better than any team SLC has beaten this year
of course SLC did not beat MNW and choked away 5 turnovers
consumerman
10-09-07, 10:38 PM
I read this on another board
Supposedly MV has 5-6 D1 recruits on offense alone this year, includig the TE who is supposedly going to Stanford and the QB although a junior has had many feelers
and that the 28 point loss was Spongebob's worst ever in his long career
dont know for sure but I read it on another board
Not exactly.
If we did the research we would probably come up with 10-20 SLC wins over Texas Top 10 teams (in the last five years alone).
.........
There are probably more.
OK let me get this, you state that MV, Elder, Moeller were not elite teams. I ask you what elite teams SLC has beaten, citing the two likely examples and you respond with some "elite Texas teams".
Less then two hours later you accuse consumerman of this:
You did it again.
You lose a debate so the best you can do is change the subject.
Typical. LOL
huh???
Chicago
10-10-07, 09:05 AM
:banana:
OK let me get this, you state that MV, Elder, Moeller were not elite teams. I ask you what elite teams SLC has beaten, citing the two likely examples and you respond with some "elite Texas teams".
huh???
I guess it depends on what definition you use for "elite" teams.
On this thread, people are trying to argue that 2006 Elder, 2007 Moe and 2007 MV are elite teams (or at least great teams). However, they aren't/weren't even in the Top 20 in their respective states.
If they were a state Top 10 (in a great football state) I would say they would be an elite team. But they are not.
In my view, any team in the Top 10 of Ohio, California, Texas or Florida (and some other states) would be an elite team. Those teams are in the top 1% of high school teams nationally. I say that is elite status.
DLSfanNW
10-10-07, 09:54 AM
I guess it depends on what definition you use for "elite" teams.
On this thread, people are trying to argue that 2006 Elder, 2007 Moe and 2007 MV are elite teams (or at least great teams). However, they aren't/weren't even in the Top 20 in their respective states.
If they were a state Top 10 (in a great football state) I would say they would be an elite team. But they are not.
In my view, any team in the Top 10 of Ohio, California, Texas or Florida (and some other states) would be an elite team. Those teams are in the top 1% of high school teams nationally. I say that is elite status.
This whole silly "elite" thing started as you may recall when you called DLS "A great team" and I thanked you for that. You said they are great but not "Elite"...I have been throwing it back at you ever since (this was before you lost to MNW.
SLC is clearly an awesome team. If they start playing defense like they do offense then they will truely be "elite". Giving up any points to a team ranked 7000 spots below them gives me doubts about this status although I am sure you will disagree.
I guess it depends on what definition you use for "elite" teams.
On this thread, people are trying to argue that 2006 Elder, 2007 Moe and 2007 MV are elite teams (or at least great teams). However, they aren't/weren't even in the Top 20 in their respective states.
If they were a state Top 10 (in a great football state) I would say they would be an elite team. But they are not.
In my view, any team in the Top 10 of Ohio, California, Texas or Florida (and some other states) would be an elite team. Those teams are in the top 1% of high school teams nationally. I say that is elite status.
huh?
So what were you arguing w/consumerman about?
This is the way it seems to me:
A. MV/Elder/Moe are not elite
B. Many of the Texas teams SLC has beaten were elite teams
C. consumerman has reading issues and is changing the subject because he thinks you said WL was elite
D. You did not say WL was elite, you said they were Texas elite
E. Now they are elite because they were top ten in TX
You are confusing the heck out of me.
consumerman
10-10-07, 10:58 AM
OK let me get this, you state that MV, Elder, Moeller were not elite teams. I ask you what elite teams SLC has beaten, citing the two likely examples and you respond with some "elite Texas teams".
Less then two hours later you accuse consumerman of this:
huh???
ZACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
consumerman
10-10-07, 11:00 AM
huh?
So what were you arguing w/consumerman about?
This is the way it seems to me:
A. MV/Elder/Moe are not elite
B. Many of the Texas teams SLC has beaten were elite teams
C. consumerman has reading issues and is changing the subject because he thinks you said WL was elite
D. You did not say WL was elite, you said they were Texas elite
E. Now they are elite because they were top ten in TX
You are confusing the heck out of me.
ZACTLy PART 2
consumerman
10-10-07, 11:02 AM
daditis
wacky daddy
Mr. Incredibility
(choose your favorite nickname)
please go to another kooky dinner and this time tell us what elvis had to eat
Chicago
10-10-07, 11:43 AM
SLCDazed
There is a John Kerry joke in there somewhere.
"I didn't say they were elite, before I did say they were elite, which I really didn't say but that's what I mean."
Since I am taking shots.
I would say certainly almost every year you take the top 5 in TX/FL/CA, and probably top 3 in OH and you will have just about the best teams in the nation, call them elite. If you play teams in that group you have played an elite team.
I do think it is possible for a state to have a up or down year and have a couple more than that number or a couple less. This year in TX appears to be kind of like the college scene. I think it is a great year for football, but we may not have our normal share of elite teams.
This whole silly "elite" thing started as you may recall when you called DLS "A great team" and I thanked you for that. You said they are great but not "Elite"...I have been throwing it back at you ever since (this was before you lost to MNW.
Some posters seem to forget the "context" of a thread or of a particular post.
When the season began, most pollsters didn't consider DLS an elite national team. DLS only made the Top 25 rankings in a couple of polls. In that context, DLS was not an elite team. Now, they are clearly considered an elite national team.
Bordertown
10-10-07, 01:11 PM
What is sad about this whole worthless thread is that a nice win by DLS has been lost. However in reading the orginal post, it was inevitiable. It was inviting this mess.
Chicago
10-10-07, 01:17 PM
Is it elite or elite national?
Do you have to be in the top 25 nationally, or in the top 10 in a good state?
Feel free to ever say the same thing two times in a row.
consumerman
10-10-07, 01:50 PM
Is it elite or elite national?
Do you have to be in the top 25 nationally, or in the top 10 in a good state?
Feel free to ever say the same thing two times in a row.
dude u r the best
consumerman
10-10-07, 02:33 PM
There is a John Kerry joke in there somewhere.
"I didn't say they were elite, before I did say they were elite, which I really didn't say but that's what I mean."Since I am taking shots.
I would say certainly almost every year you take the top 5 in TX/FL/CA, and probably top 3 in OH and you will have just about the best teams in the nation, call them elite. If you play teams in that group you have played an elite team.
I do think it is possible for a state to have a up or down year and have a couple more than that number or a couple less. This year in TX appears to be kind of like the college scene. I think it is a great year for football, but we may not have our normal share of elite teams.
I guess you guys finally get it (or still do get it)
ever since I joined this site a few days before the 2006 herbie...
I noticed this double-talking, contradicting, say anything good about slc, bash any other school and don't worry about contradicting yourself guy even on consecutive posts and never understood why you took this clown seriously
i guess we are getting on the same page
good john kerry comparision
I noticed this double-talking, contradicting, say anything good about ..., bash any other school and don't worry about contradicting yourself guy even on consecutive posts and never understood why you took this clown seriously
Who exactly are you referring to with this passage? I can think of several who qualify.
consumerman
10-10-07, 02:49 PM
Who exactly are you referring to with this passage? I can think of several who qualify.
you need to read the second part about propping up slc
Bordertown
10-10-07, 07:08 PM
I noticed this double-talking, contradicting, say anything good about slc, bash any other school and don't worry about contradicting yourself guy even on consecutive posts and never understood why you took this clown seriously
Consumerman, if you take out SLC and add DLS, I could swear you talking about yourself. The following is your history on this thread alone.
SLC - thread 10, 125, 130, 142, 145
GCL - thread 12 17, 24, 42, 107
St X - thread 12 (pansy schedule),
Ohio football - thread 36, 95
Elder - thread 42
Moeller - thread 42
Mission Viejo - thread 44
Glenville - thread 44
DLS (????) - thread 44
Concha - thread 46
texans - thread 112
SLCDad - Thread 135, 137, 141, 160
texas football - Thread 147
Mission Viejo Coach - Thread 79, 85, 88, 152
I guess the one that speaks volumes are you comment on the MV coach. You (Consumerman) win with alot of "class". Next time congratulate the opponent for a good game. Then sit back and take the adulations. I will head you off:
Bordertown - Thread 171
consumerman
10-10-07, 07:55 PM
borderboy
I quit worrying about hall monitors like you in the 7th grade
that was a LONG time ago
whatever enjoyment (or whatever) you get out of following me around and trying to nitpick me or get under my skin or be my antagonist better be worthwhile because I dont EVER give whatever you say do or post a second thought
so enjoy your well spent time and get the most out of it but be aware I dont even read your posts or give anything you say a second thought
I do and will challenge any factually wrong, biasely opinionated, or logically incorrect item that daditis says about DLS and/or SLC as related to national elite football teams. This thread was a perfect example. If you cant see it (although about 4 other people did) then you are truly blind
Bordertown
10-10-07, 08:27 PM
Bordertown - Thread 171
Like clockwork.
Honestly I am not even trying to keep up with thread. Its pointless and goes nowhere. My point is DLS had a nice win and YOU go bury it with your rants taking shots at the GLC, Ohio football, the coach of the team you defeated (now thats classy), and your predictable jab at SLC.
Enjoy your victory. But act like you have been there before.
dexksim
10-11-07, 09:31 AM
While I'd agree that Elder & Moeller consistently get overrated in the early season polls, and inflate people's perspective of wins over them, I still think the Long Beach Poly win over Cleveland Glenville is very "legit." The Tarblooders are just the victim of playing a completely insane non-league schedule this year and being stuck in a terrible league.
I don't think any honest high school football observer in Cleveland would have them worse than third in a metro Cleveland poll. I'd find it hard to believe they're any worse than top 15 in all of Ohio.
For Glenville to come down to Cincy, and go toe-to-toe with the Bombers on their home field tells me all I really need to know about them. Totally agree with that. Say what you want to about Glenville, but they are a good team. It's just that their league schedule is horrendous. They will be in the playoffs this year.
Poly and X beat a good team in Glenville
consumerman
10-13-07, 11:13 AM
This week Moeller beat a 7-1 team 31-14
but Moeller can't possibly be any good after they lost to a cali team, right?
lol
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