Good & Not So Good Refs in Cincinnati

[acmilan13]

I would like to open this thread as a topic of discussion for us to mention the good refs & crews we have seen and also mention (not really abuse) those that don't do such a good job.

For example, the center ref at the Badin vs Finneytown game (unsure of his name but it was Steve something) was the best center I have seen in quite awhile. Of course he was a GCL ref because the game was played @ Badin (Hamilton).

CHL refs are a completely different story...

[iceman8]

I hate to bag on refs but many of them really are terrible. I hope that the coming generation (having played way more soccer at a higher level) will be better referees. I thought maybe because I was a player I was biased to think refs were bad throughout hs, but even now watching games it is clear that many of them just don't know soccer.

[cincysoccer2006]

dont rag on refs. last thing we need is for them to quit. delete this thread please

[phatneff]

dont rag on refs. last thing we need is for them to quit. delete this thread please

No, I think this is a valid thread. I doubt many refs out there read this board, but if they do, I'm sure they would appreciate the feedback.

[acmilan13]

Unfortunately the bad ones won't quit. I want to recognize the good ones as well though. My problem with some of the refs in Cincinnati, particularly the ones we see in the CHL on a regular basis, is that they do not understand the game and how to apply the rules of the game. They are more concerned with whether a players shinguard is 1/4 inch from being pulled up too high than they are from being in position to make a correct call or taking pride in what they do.

[phatneff]

Unfortunately the bad ones won't quit. I want to recognize the good ones as well though. My problem with some of the refs in Cincinnati, particularly the ones we see in the CHL on a regular basis, is that they do not understand the game and how to apply the rules of the game. They are more concerned with whether a players shinguard is 1/4 inch from being pulled up too high than they are from being in position to make a correct call or taking pride in what they do.

I feel ya about the bad ones not quitting.

One really particular thing I notice is that the AR's do not stay on the offside line and can't keep up, causing a lot of missed offside calls.

[CUP91]

The center ref for the Loveland vs. Fairfield game last night does a nice job. Very consistent in his calls, allows time for advantage, and actively communicates with players and coaches. While I'd like him to call some "deliberate handling," he understands the word deliberate -- thus, you'll generally hear many "handball" calls from the ignorant spectators but he doesn't let this affect him. He also centered the Loveland vs. West game so it wasn't my first exposure to him.. Kudos for staying up with run of play as well...

[cincysoccer2006]

'im sure they would appreciate the feedback'
this is a thread to rag on bad refs. this is not constructive at all.

[phatneff]

Are you a referee? I see some prop posts being given so far. It's not all bad whatsoever.

[Oguchi Oneywu!]

The center ref for the Loveland vs. Fairfield game last night does a nice job. Very consistent in his calls, allows time for advantage, and actively communicates with players and coaches. While I'd like him to call some "deliberate handling," he understands the word deliberate -- thus, you'll generally hear many "handball" calls from the ignorant spectators but he doesn't let this affect him. He also centered the Loveland vs. West game so it wasn't my first exposure to him.. Kudos for staying up with run of play as well...


Yeah, that West coach was a HUGE pr1ck to that center ref when you guys played west. And honestly, every time I've seen west play the coach has been a dick...:Ohno:

[Newt]

Are any of you guys willing to become refs at some point?

[acmilan13]

'im sure they would appreciate the feedback'
this is a thread to rag on bad refs. this is not constructive at all.

Not sure why you are being so defensive? I did not create the thread to publicly humiliate referees. Besides, some of them do that on their own! LOL

I could list several names on here of the usual suspects - the same guys doing the same games but unfortunately due to the shortage of referees in the area we get stuck with them doing key league matches.

It is just nice to hear that others share in our misery and I also think that is nice to hear about the good refs for a change too and give them praise.

Tell me this though....why doesn't anyone try to do anything about it? Why is everyone content with having a middle ref that never leaves the center circle or an AR that can't keep up with the last defender to call offsides or calls a corner/goal kick even though he is 15 yards off the end line and has no clue if the ball was out?

[acmilan13]

Are any of you guys willing to become refs at some point?

Absolutely. I have been and probably will more later in life...

[Thunderflames]

The center ref for the Loveland vs. Fairfield game last night does a nice job. Very consistent in his calls, allows time for advantage, and actively communicates with players and coaches. While I'd like him to call some "deliberate handling," he understands the word deliberate -- thus, you'll generally hear many "handball" calls from the ignorant spectators but he doesn't let this affect him. He also centered the Loveland vs. West game so it wasn't my first exposure to him.. Kudos for staying up with run of play as well...

Agreed. He did an excellent job managing the game without becoming part of the game. Also, from some of the comments I could hear, he was very respectful of the coaches but was resolute in his decisions.

[YAPCAP]

I think there should be requirements to be ref. They should have to be in shape and actually be able to SEE and HEAR, and should not argue with the players/coaches/parents. Also alot of the refs are just lazy to not follow the ball to the end line. That is a very important call on whether its a goal/corner kick. Some of them need to step it up, But good job to those who are good refs.

[sportscenter00]

I'm sure it has been talked about to no end, but the ref who missed the endline call in the Fairfield - St. X playoff game last year had to be 75 years old and missed an out of bounds ball by (I'm not kidding) 4 feet, which St. X's keeper gave up on, and Fairfield scored on to win 1-0. That was pathetic... and he made $100 that night... for being an AR... and have an AARP card... ridiculous.

I agree with ACMilan though, GCL refs get the fact that coaches are going to somewhat argue your call and to get it right and not waiver (which is so crucial). CHL refs tend to worry too much about ticky-tack stuff that the small pushes and the shin guards get in the way of good technical ref'ing. I know there are great ones out there, but no one really talks about refs when they're good, only when they screw up (which is sad, but part of the job). Too bad most good soccer players will never reach a high school ref'ing level because they don't see good refs that often. And they don't want to have to deal with the abuse refs take from players like them!

[SoccerDad2006]

I have said it before and I'll say it again, I can use the thumbs on one hand to count the number of truly bad referees I've ever come across.

Do officials make mistakes during games? Yes. They're human.

Do they make calls that look wrong from where we sit? Absolutely.

Do they deserve respect from players, coaches, and fans? Yes, under all circumstances.

[phatneff]

I have said it before and I'll say it again, I can use the thumbs on one hand to count the number of truly bad referees I've ever come across.

Do officials make mistakes during games? Yes. They're human.

Do they make calls that look wrong from where we sit? Absolutely.

Do they deserve respect from players, coaches, and fans? Yes, under all circumstances.

Thank you!

[acmilan13]

I have said it before and I'll say it again, I can use the thumbs on one hand to count the number of truly bad referees I've ever come across.

Do officials make mistakes during games? Yes. They're human.

Do they make calls that look wrong from where we sit? Absolutely.

Do they deserve respect from players, coaches, and fans? Yes, under all circumstances.

How many thumbs do you have? :shrug:

You are not being honest or you have not watched some of the same high school games that I have been a part of. I agree with your statement that officials make mistakes. Players and coaches do as well. The calls are certainly subjective. However, when one does not understand the rules of the game to begin with or does not take pride in his/her job, there lies the problem. I could go on and on about this with examples but will not.

As far as respect goes, "under all circumstances" well I agree to a certain extent. This respect should go both ways. I have witnessed officials telling players, coaches, and fans to "shut up" in ways that were not deserving, as well as heard officials swear at players and coaches. Does that fall under all circumstances? Players should respect the officials at all times because they should keep their mouth shut during the game, as well as respect them as adults. However, I have a problem when a ref swears at a player, coach, or fan, or even demands someone to shut up for just questioning what the call was.

[SoccerDad2006]

A referee swearing at a player would be a bad thing. Truly, I've never seen it.

I am being honest.

I don't know who you are so I can't say whether we've watched or played in the same games.

I suspect that you and I have different definitions of what constitutes "bad". Nothing more or less.

I also come with perspective of having been a referee in a different sport at very high levels; national and international events. People have whined to me in several different languages when blaming my calls for their lack of performance. I've also been thanked by Olympic medalists and world champions for my service.

True champions will rise above all challenges, even so-called bad referees.

[Thunderflames]

I have said it before and I'll say it again, I can use the thumbs on one hand to count the number of truly bad referees I've ever come across.

Do officials make mistakes during games? Yes. They're human.

Do they make calls that look wrong from where we sit? Absolutely.

Do they deserve respect from players, coaches, and fans? Yes, under all circumstances.

Granted, referees should be given the benefit of a doubt and all should be thankful they are taking the time to get out there and do something no one else will. It doesn't pay enough to put up with the grief and scrutiny they receive. It must be frustrating having people scrutinize and second guess one's every decision. Frankly, I cannot fathom why they would show up on a regular basis. However, your last statement creeps me out a little. I believe one earns respect. Unearned respect to me sounds like patronization.

I do agree with your statement in a later post that questions what constitutes "bad." The term is subjective. However, I do believe I have seen matches (more than I have thumbs) where the experience of the players exceeded the experience of the referees. Those games can be ugly. That is not the referees fault, that is a scheduling problem.

[SoccerDad2006]

However, your last statement creeps me out a little. I believe one earns respect. Unearned respect to me sounds like patronization.

The role of referee on the field should always be respected, under all circumstances.

If a call is questioned, it can be done by a team captain or coach in a polite manner.

If an official is truly incompetent, there are ways of addressing the issue after the game.

Getting into the whizzing contests, which seems to happen more and more, helps nobody.

[phatneff]

We, as referees, make mistakes. I made a horrible one last night (I won't say which game) and it resulted in a goal for the opposing team. I heard about it from the coaches, players, and fans for the rest of the game. I eventually had to caution the coach because he just wouldn't stop, and that was AFTER I admitted to my mistake and apologized. After the caution, he kept quiet.

The point is, coaches and players are going to continue to berate officials when they see fit UNTIL the official does something about it like cautioning or even ejecting them. It's the case of pushing the limit. They will push and push and push until they have no room to push anymore. I believe that a good official will allow it to go so far and then stop it before it gets out of hand. Sometimes the "whizzing contest" should happen, but only to a point. Then all arguments must stop. Otherwise, the official will never have control of the game.

[acmilan13]

I have the utmost respect for referees who, like phatneff, take pride in their job. If an official makes a judgement call on a foul and he is 5 yards away and saw it differently than we did then I can live with that. However, when he is 40 yards away because he can't keep up with the run of play (or chooses not to in some cases) and calls a foul that clearly is not, then I am gonna let him know he is in the wrong. It is not fair to the players or the fans to have someone out there officiating that does not care enough to be there and not give 100%, or should not be there in the first place. Coaches, players, parents, fans, etc, put too much time and effort into the game to have some unqualified or unfit guy show up and make calls that can change the complexity or even the outcome of a match.

[soref]

There is one thing that needs to be cleared up that some people may not understand.
There were a few comments made about "GCL refs" or "GMC refs".
Most refs do not stick to one league exclusively. Refs tend to do games for most or all of the leagues around the city throughout the year.
There are people who are hired by the different leagues to do the job of assigning refs for the High Schools that are in that league.
There are some refs in Cincinnati who will work with all of the assignors and there are some refs who will only take games from one of the assignors.
Some of this happens strictly because of attitudes and politics, which is another story in itself.
Everyone can admit that there are leagues in this city that are superior to others.
Some refs tend to only do games for the "superior" leagues for one reason or another (also another story in itself). That's when you might start thinking that there are "GCL refs" or "GMC refs". But I don't think that this is widespread through the refs in the city.
I know that I have done games with phatneff for GCL schools and GMC schools.

I appreciate the idea that there are some fans and/or coaches out there that would like to make comments of appreciation and/or support of refs, but unfortunatly those are few and far between.

One big complaint that I hear about refs is that they don't have an understanding of the game. Those comments are accurate in some cases because you have refs out there that are strictly that, referee's. Then you have some, like phatneff and myself and others, that grew up playing the sport, understand the sport from all 3 sides (player, coach, and ref) and actually do the job because we enjoy being a part of soccer.
But, you still have to appreciate the "refs" who come out there, because if they weren't there, who would be?

[phatneff]

That is correct. Thanks, soref!

Also, many referees choose to take assignments that are closer to their residence or place of employment. It is very difficult to get referees to travel to the far away schools. In the end, it hurts everybody. I drive where I can, within reason, to be able to get there by game time. If I can't leave work before a certain time to get to a far away school, then I will choose not to take those assignments. I guess you get what you pay for.

[lotr10]

As a FAIRFIELD fan, I can truthfully say that the refs have been fantastic! We should be glad that they take the time to provide the highly skilled officiating required to make the soccer season a success!

From their tireless devotion to good officiating to their incomparable knowledge of the game to their willingness to sacrifice their own personal lives to loan us their talent, I for one am grateful!

I see no reason people would be crying about the refs. They are absolutely the best! Oh, did I say I'm a FAIRFIELD fan! That's Fairfield Indians!

[acmilan13]

I do know of several refs that have done matches in all leagues. I also know that the assignor for a certain league :shrug: assigns the same lot of officials so that is where the comments stem from. No disrespect, it is just how it seems to be done but I realize that many of you do games in all leagues across the city.

I find it hard to believe though that there is such a shortage of referees that we have to just accept what we get. To me that is the underlying problem....everyone is complacent about the officiating and how things are and do not want to make any changes. I am not being radical but what if an official that is subpar decides to quit or is not assigned because he isn't doing an acceptable job, are we going to run out of high school officials and have to cancel games? I highly doubt it.

Also, I created this thread to talk about the good and the bad. I have yet to post any names....I guess we will see what Saturday's crew looks like and I would like nothing more than to come back on here and let you know how good of a job the center did at keeping up with the play and how the AR was even with the last defender and on the touch line constantly. I will have names. I want to praise the good ones too!

[Thunderflames]

However, your last statement creeps me out a little. I believe one earns respect. Unearned respect to me sounds like patronization.

The role of referee on the field should always be respected, under all circumstances.

If a call is questioned, it can be done by a team captain or coach in a polite manner.

If an official is truly incompetent, there are ways of addressing the issue after the game.

Getting into the whizzing contests, which seems to happen more and more, helps nobody.

Most of what you say here I coundn't possibly agree with more. However, I am still having trouble swallowing that "under all circumstances" statement.

It is possible to extend the common human courtesy of decency to any individual and not respect their performance. If an official is incompetent or corrupt, should we always respect them? It DOES happen as the recent basketball scandal demonstrates. As someone who has officiated, do you respect the performance of that basketball referee? I would hope that most officials would find themselves in a state of moral outrage over this person's conduct. However, "under all circumstances" is a very inclusive statement and I simply cannot agree that anyone, under any circumstance, commands that position.

The very good news here is that people like this basketball official are uncommon. He became a news item because his behavior is such an aberration.

I also wonder if our difference of opinion here may not have something to do with our definition(s) of the word respect. The way I am interpreting this word is in terms of holding someone in esteem because of certain qualities and abilities. Perhaps you mean respect in the sense of acknowledging one's right or privilege????

[Thunderflames]

I have a colleague the refs all levels of soccer but has a preference for college, high school, and will travel considerably for showcase tournaments. In the conversations we have had, he has expressed many of the same opinions that I have heard from soref and phatneff.

Because of this "inside" information I have always gotten a chuckle when some fan claims that their HS team got homered by the ref.

I know from this colleague that there is a ref shortage. I wish I could recall all the details for the purpose of this thread but last year a discussion came up with one of boys or girls JV teams at FF about the minimum number of refs needed to start a game. Apparently they could only find one willing to come out and the beginning of the game was delayed. What I can't recall is how that situation was resolved. Sorry.

Soref and phatneff, keep up the good jobs. You are appreciated by most. . .at least once they have settled down. I have two kids playing HS on two different teams and the performances by all the refs I have seen this year ranged from good to excellent. Funny, despite the shortage, I do not recall seeing any of the refs more than once.

[UwishUknew]

lotr10 - Is your nose brown enough yet?

Let's all remember that refs do get paid for their services - it is hardly a "sacrifce of their own personal lives". People give up time with their family everyday for work , whether their job is refing on the side or mowing lawns. You always have better workers than others and the same is true with refs. Maybe good refs should get bonuses just like good workers do? Just a thought, but to say that ALL refs are "absolutely the best" is a shameful attempt at giving the Indians an advantage. I hope the refs don't read into this.....

[cincysoccer2006]

honestly, i played in many high school and club games, and to be honest the absolute worst refereeing that I saw was in a club showcase tournament. there has never been worse refereeing than that. its not just high school ref's.

but my point was most refs that arent good dont like hearing about it, so why piss them off and make them quit and then find that you can only have a 12 game season because there arent enough refs to go around? there are so many things that influence the game besides the refs. trust me i have been screwed over worse than anyone (ref timed, supposed to have stoppage time, game was stopped as i was ready to take the winning shot, lost in PK's) i know how much it sucks. but we all know there are going to be good refs and bad ones and they probably know if they are good or bad based on how people react to them, especially you guys it seems, on the field. why do you have to bring it up on a thread?

[phatneff]

lotr10 - Is your nose brown enough yet?

Let's all remember that refs do get paid for their services - it is hardly a "sacrifce of their own personal lives". People give up time with their family everyday for work , whether their job is refing on the side or mowing lawns. You always have better workers than others and the same is true with refs. Maybe good refs should get bonuses just like good workers do? Just a thought, but to say that ALL refs are "absolutely the best" is a shameful attempt at giving the Indians an advantage. I hope the refs don't read into this.....

That's funny you say this because, yes, refs do get paid for what they do, as well as all other people who work. HOWEVER, do the other people that work get harrassed and ridiculed in the process of doing their job while they are sitting at their desk like referees do while on the field. Absolutely not. The amount of money we get paid is highly disproportionate to the "conditions of employment." It takes a tough skin to be a referee.........some people have it and some people don't.

I see many officials, in all sports, become referees just for the sake of the additional little income. That means they don't really take pride in what they are doing and are just happy to make it through the match to get their money. This causes a snowball effect because the players/coaches/fans will get on them because the referee doesn't call a good game, then some referees don't know how to handle it and lose control of the game or quit, and the players/coaches/fans will continue their tirades game after game. It has gotten to the point where there doesn't seem to be enough discipline with the players/coaches/fans and their actions have become "expected," and to me, that is total crap!

Yes, there is a shortage of soccer referees. But until all of those out there, who like to criticize and ridicule us for what we do and how we do it, actually go get certified and get a yellow shirt and get on field to do a better job than we do, then there will always be a shortage.

[theozone]

The lacrosse community has a phrase it uses a lot..."Honor the Game". Most of the refs I know personally, ref as a way of "giving back" to a game they enjoy...believe me, money is NOT the reason they are out there.

[UwishUknew]

Wow phatneff! The reason I suggested refing bonuses was to weed out the officials who do only ref for the extra income as you mentioned in your post. I think refs would be more apt to call a good game and keep up with plays if an extra incentive was involved. Even those bad refs who are only in it for the money would be tempted to up their game....... Let's keep in mind that there are many professions where ridicule and in some cases danger is involved. For example teachers, social workers, policemen, members of the armed forces,etc. All of these professions get paid peanuts compared to their sacrifice and "conditons of employment." So don't put your position up on a pedestal! Bottom line is you chose refing because of your love for the game, knowing the ridicule and pay that was involved.

[cincysoccerguy]

Wow phatneff! The reason I suggested refing bonuses was to weed out the officials who do only ref for the extra income as you mentioned in your post. I think refs would be more apt to call a good game and keep up with plays if an extra incentive was involved. Even those bad refs who are only in it for the money would be tempted to up their game....... Let's keep in mind that there are many professions where ridicule and in some cases danger is involved. For example teachers, social workers, policemen, members of the armed forces,etc. All of these professions get paid peanuts compared to their sacrifice and "conditons of employment." So don't put your position up on a pedestal! Bottom line is you chose refing because of your love for the game, knowing the ridicule and pay that was involved.

Well said!

[theozone]

The refs I know don't really need a bonus....a simple THANK YOU would probably suffice.

[soref]

I say we get back to what this thread was started for.
It was started so that people could give recognition to officials that do a good job and maybe question some of those that don't.
I this is not what this thread is going to be about, then lets just cancel it.

So, did anyone see anything from officials since Saturday that they would like to comment on?

[phatneff]

Wow phatneff! The reason I suggested refing bonuses was to weed out the officials who do only ref for the extra income as you mentioned in your post. I think refs would be more apt to call a good game and keep up with plays if an extra incentive was involved. Even those bad refs who are only in it for the money would be tempted to up their game....... Let's keep in mind that there are many professions where ridicule and in some cases danger is involved. For example teachers, social workers, policemen, members of the armed forces,etc. All of these professions get paid peanuts compared to their sacrifice and "conditons of employment." So don't put your position up on a pedestal! Bottom line is you chose refing because of your love for the game, knowing the ridicule and pay that was involved.

Wow uwishuknew!! Don't read in to my posting or put words in my mouth. In no way was I putting my "position up on a pedestal." I officiate a GAME. That's all it is.........A GAME! I think many people out there need to remember this before they start opening their mouth. Many parents make the comments about officials, when in reality, they are the ones in the wrong by showing a poor example for their own kids.

I have a very well-payed job outside of reffing. If you think that I'm putting the casual official's position above those that protect our community and/or guide our youth, then you should look in the mirror to ask yourself why you would suggest that.

[acmilan13]

I officiate a GAME. That's all it is.........A GAME! I think many people out there need to remember this before they start opening their mouth.

Could this thought process be an underlying cause for poor officiating by some referees? :shrug:

"So what if I make a bad call, it's just a game."

[SoccerDad2006]

I also wonder if our difference of opinion here may not have something to do with our definition(s) of the word respect. The way I am interpreting this word is in terms of holding someone in esteem because of certain qualities and abilities. Perhaps you mean respect in the sense of acknowledging one's right or privilege????

Maybe I didn't use the right words. How about this phrase: "Referees should be treated with respect at all times." You may not like the person. You may not respect how he is doing his job. But on the field, you need to treat him/her in a civilized manner. Period. End of story.

If people treated their supervisors at work the same way they treated referee, they would be looking for work elsewhere. If you can cooperate and get along with someone at work who you don't like, you can do the same for a game official.

Could this thought process be an underlying cause for poor officiating by some referees?

"So what if I make a bad call, it's just a game."

I don't know of a single official in any sport who begins any game without caring how they perform. Some are better than others, but they all care.

Perhaps some fans, players, and coaches need to remember that, in the end, soccer is just a game. Nobody's life is on the line, as with a police officer. Nobody's freedom is on the line, as with a soldier. The nation's next generation isn't on the line, as with a teacher.

At day's end, soccer is just a game, nothing more or less!

It has gotten to the point where there doesn't seem to be enough discipline with the players/coaches/fans and their actions have become "expected," and to me, that is total crap!

Phatneff, if we ever cross paths and actually know who each other are, I'd like to spell you for a cold one. You seem like a decent sort.

[Thunderflames]

I also wonder if our difference of opinion here may not have something to do with our definition(s) of the word respect. The way I am interpreting this word is in terms of holding someone in esteem because of certain qualities and abilities. Perhaps you mean respect in the sense of acknowledging one's right or privilege????

Maybe I didn't use the right words. How about this phrase: "Referees should be treated with respect at all times." You may not like the person. You may not respect how he is doing his job. But on the field, you need to treat him/her in a civilized manner. Period. End of story.

There we go. I think we are on the same page now.

[UwishUknew]

That's funny you say this because, yes, refs do get paid for what they do, as well as all other people who work. HOWEVER, do the other people that work get harrassed and ridiculed in the process of doing their job while they are sitting at their desk like referees do while on the field. Absolutely not. The amount of money we get paid is highly disproportionate to the "conditions of employment."

I wasn't the one to suggest this. According to your quote, you asked me if the other people that work get "harrassed and ridiculed in the process of doing their job." Not trying to disrespect you, but just wanted to remind you that I was responding to your rhetorical question. As far as the reffing bonuses are concerned, I was just suggesting ways to reward those who do a good job. But I guess all refs really would rather have a thank you at the end of the day rather than an extra $20 in their pocket. I guess next time I go to a restaurant, I'll just tell my waitress "thank you" instead of giving her a tip. Just trying to help.....

[CUP91]

I thought the CR for this game last night was very consistent and certainly took the time to explain calls/cautions to the Anderson coach. It was a track meet at times as well so it wasn't easy to keep up with run of play but again, the CR did a nice job.

[lotr10]

Since brown-nosing hasn't helped us much I think it's time to be blunt. So far this year the officiating in the GMC games I have seen Fairfield play in has overall been outstanding! They've called the games pretty fairly and most importantly consistently. Equally impressive is the crews I've seen have normal egos and don't need to be treated as despotic potentates! Good job so far GMC!

Now for the non conference games it has varied from good to awful! I thought the crew that did the X/FF game last Saturday night was terrible! It's bad enough they were not consistent, and seemed to miss a LOT of stuff, when questioned by the coaches (respectively) they escalated the situations in a heart beat to major confrontations by behaving as if they were just declared to be the emperor of Rome! I'm always struck how the good refs never seem to get into arguments with coaches, fans or kids while the less confident guys ref with a HUGE chip on their shoulders!

[phatneff]

I thought the CR for this game last night was very consistent and certainly took the time to explain calls/cautions to the Anderson coach. It was a track meet at times as well so it wasn't easy to keep up with run of play but again, the CR did a nice job.

Thanks!

[phatneff]

Since brown-nosing hasn't helped us much I think it's time to be blunt. So far this year the officiating in the GMC games I have seen Fairfield play in has overall been outstanding! They've called the games pretty fairly and most importantly consistently. Equally impressive is the crews I've seen have normal egos and don't need to be treated as despotic potentates! Good job so far GMC!


Thanks again!

[Thunderflames]

I have heard the tongue-in-cheek statement that you can tell when the referee did a good job because the fans from both sides feel like they got the shaft.

Not to trivialize the topic but do you think there is some truth in that? For example, I have been to many games where fans from both sides seem upset with the men-in-yellow but IMHO often their calls seemed to go both ways and they seemed consistent with what they would allow. How do the referees in this forum sense if they had a good game or not?

Also, just as a side note, I watch a lot of the girls' games also. To me it seems as if the quality and consistency of refereeing is better with the boys' teams. I'm not sure if this is real or just my imagination. The people I know that ref do both genders so I don't think the refs are any different. . .or are they?

[sportscenter00]

I thought the crew that did the X/FF game last Saturday night was terrible! It's bad enough they were not consistent, and seemed to miss a LOT of stuff, when questioned by the coaches (respectively) they escalated the situations in a heart beat to major confrontations by behaving as if they were just declared to be the emperor of Rome!

Eh, I don't know if a coach (FF's) who was screaming at the center ref AFTER one of his players shoved a St. X kid into the metal wall on the bleachers, is being extremely respectful. Granted the refs were not good overall that game, but the center was trying to calm the situation down and make sure the St. X player was ok. I was more sickened by the response from the Fairfield crowd than I was the center's response to the coaching staff.

When you're yelling at the referee for a good 2-3 minutes WHILE another player is down on the ground after being shoved into a wall, and you're not 100% sure he's not seriously hurt... you need to re-evaluate your life and your priorities. Seriously. It seemed like from the St. X side that Fairfield parents/supporters could care less about the damage done to a kid, but were more insensed about the yellow card given to their player.

Just another incident where the ref did what was thought to be right by St. X's sidelines, and what was wrong by Fairfield's sidelines, and visaversa. You are never going to please more than 50% of the people... so don't worry about that. But as fans, remember it is just a game... a fun game at that. Or at least it should be.

[phatneff]

I'm confused. The FF coach was yelling at the ref after one of HIS players shoved a St. X player into the bleachers?? Or did the St. X player shove the FF player into the bleachers? If it was the former, why was the FF coach so upset?

[StXSoccer16]

the ff player shoved the x player and the coach was complaining to the ref because the incident happened after the ball was out so apparently there should not have been a fould called, it should have just been a throw in. at least the ff coach thought it should have been a throw in.

[Thunderflames]

the ff player shoved the x player and the coach was complaining to the ref because the incident happened after the ball was out so apparently there should not have been a fould called, it should have just been a throw in. at least the ff coach thought it should have been a throw in.

StXSoccer16, just building on what you were saying here. . .I think you are on the right track. The two kids went hard after the ball on the sideline. At the sideline the FF kid stepped in front of the X kid and shielded the ball. He got his hip into the lower body of the X player and the kid went flying. . .hard. . .into the wall. I could see him leave his feet but I did not see the impact but the sound he made wasn't good. I was 20 yards away and looking down on it. I had a pretty clear view, probably better than most of the players. Perhaps if you were a player on that part of the field you had a better look than I did. But believe me, that FF player does not have enough muscle to push another kid 5-6 yards that hard unless momentum is a factor.

I'm not really sure WHY the yellow was awarded. You will see the same play a dozen times a game in the middle of the field and it doesn't garner a second look. Perhaps the fact that this could have been a serious injury is what brought the card out. If I were on the other side of the field I certainly would have wanted the yellow. Honestly, even being on the side of the field I was, I cannot say I disagree with the yellow. I have seen less severe carded and more severe not. I only guess that this was something that the ref thought was appropriate for the time and circumstance.

As far as I know, you are right on with the explanation about the what went on afterward. FF thought it should be a throw in instead of a kick.

After this incident, I couldn't help but notice that even with the state-of-the-art stadium, some of those walls are pretty close to the field. I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't the first time kids have gone into the walls. You would think it wouldn't be too hard or expensive to supply some padding.

[Thunderflames]

Eh, I don't know if a coach (FF's) who was screaming at the center ref AFTER one of his players shoved a St. X kid into the metal wall on the bleachers, is being extremely respectful. Granted the refs were not good overall that game, but the center was trying to calm the situation down and make sure the St. X player was ok. I was more sickened by the response from the Fairfield crowd than I was the center's response to the coaching staff.

When you're yelling at the referee for a good 2-3 minutes WHILE another player is down on the ground after being shoved into a wall, and you're not 100% sure he's not seriously hurt... you need to re-evaluate your life and your priorities. Seriously. It seemed like from the St. X side that Fairfield parents/supporters could care less about the damage done to a kid, but were more insensed about the yellow card given to their player.

Just another incident where the ref did what was thought to be right by St. X's sidelines, and what was wrong by Fairfield's sidelines, and visaversa. You are never going to please more than 50% of the people... so don't worry about that. But as fans, remember it is just a game... a fun game at that. Or at least it should be.

sportscenter00 agree with some of your perceptions, disagree with others.

I was on the FF side a few rows up and just to the left (from the X side) of where the incident happened. I was probably 20 yards away and looking down on it. I had a pretty clear view, probably better than most of the players unless they were in that part of the field.

What I saw was this. The two kids went hard after the ball on the sideline. At the sideline the FF kid stepped in front of the X kid and shielded the ball. He got his hip into the lower body of the X player and the kid went flying. . .hard. . .into the wall. I saw him leave his feet but only heard the impact. Didn't sound good. However, it is not accurate to say that the FF player shoved the X player into the wall. Most soccer players, this one included, do not have enough muscle mass to shove someone that size into a wall that hard that is probably 5-6 yards away. Momentum was very much a factor. That much directional momentum was present because the X player was not entirely under control. However, it is most likely true that the X player probably would not have hit the wall if the FF player did not step in front him.

I also think you unduly villify FF fans. There was an issue going on between the referee and the FF coach regarding the call. FF fans could hear the conversation from their side and they were upset that the ref was not even willing to listen to the coach. I agree that as a group, they were not mindful enough of the situation with the player. However, some important points you omitted was that someone from the St X side, I believe a coach, was yelling at the FF coach while the FF coach was trying to get the Center to come over and talk with him. THAT brought out a severe case of the boo-birds from the FF side. This went on for a sizable portion of that 2-3 minute time frame you mentioned. The ref finally had to intervene and send the St X person to the sideline as they did not seem to be willing to stop on their own. Even then, if you noticed, a number of the FF JV players went down to the railing by the sideline to see how things were going with him. Some other kids followed them down and I honestly do not know if the motivation of the other kids but the JV players were concerned with his injury. Furthermore, there were a number of people on the FF side who were concerned for the player and were very much relieved to see him finally up and making his way to the bench.

This game has been long gone and over with. Both teams have other fish to fry. I appreciate that you approached this in a mature and tactful manner. However, I do feel as if your response was one-sided and had a tendency to cast a whole group of people (FF parents/fans) in an unfavorable light. My personal opinion is that group villification only makes it easier to disrespect parents/coaches/players/fans of other teams and does not do much to foster sportsmanship. As such, I felt I needed to put my two cents in.

[lotr10]

Thunderflames, as a FF fan I agree with your summary completely and let me add a couple of points about that play:

* As you stated the ball was clearly going out of bounds off an X kick so it was going to be Indians ball. I've seen this situation a thousand times AND every time the team who gets the throw-in shields the ball out of bounds. Frankly, the X player came in like a mad man and tried to "climb" around Larson. The contact was typical of what you see in that situation and the X players momentum carried him out and into the wall.

* No way was a yellow card warranted in this situation! The ref was reacting to the terrible sound of the X player crashing into a wall!

* As to the wall, shame on X for allowing such an obviously dangerous situation to exist! The wall isn't more then 5 feet from the line. I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often! If my kid was hurt on that wall I would be livid and I would give the X athletic director a piece of my mind. Why don't the fools at X PAD the wall?

* Though I disagree with the yellow, it happened after the ball went out! FF should have been awarded the throw in! The refs totally blew it here. The sideline ref, who had to see what happened was never consulted and didn't offer any input. He should have just gone out and had a donut for all the use he was.

* The FF coach spoke respectively to the ref and inquired about why the Indians didn't get a throw in (it was a dangerous free kick from the FF 25 yard line). The ref never even explained that the "foul" occurred in the field of play (which it didn't). He just kept telling the FF coach to be quiet and sit down.

* I believe the X coach people are referring to was the head coach and frankly he should have kept his mouth shut. All he did was inflame the situation by butting in.

* There wasn't a FF fan who wasn't concerned about the kid that hit the wall. But it wasn't a yellow card offense, it's not our fault there is a major flaw in stadium design, the X kid came in way to hard for the kind of play it was, and it should have been a FF throw in.

* Oh and to top matters off, the ref was so concerned about the kid that he RESUMED play with the kid still on the sideline! Talk about a dangerous situation!

My advice to X fans is to talk to your AD and demand that the walls are padded before a kid is really hurt! I'm surprised the refs or league officials haven't thought about this. Well, now you've been warned! We all saw what happened! Next time you're going to have a lawyers feeding frenzy!

[acmilan13]

Here is a question for our referees (phatneff & soref)....

What is the typical course of action a center should take for a player that knocks the ball away after a foul is called when the player is obviously doing so in order to waste time and prevent a quick restart?

Secondly, how do you deal with a player who intentionally stands in front of the ball when a foul is called to prevent a quick restart or to not allow the opposing player to play the ball? One ref will state in his pregame address that if you don't give an automatic 10 yards then he will caution you while the next ref will not even address the player that intentionally stands in front of the ball.

In the closing seconds of the Indian Hill - Finneytown match the center official called a foul around midfield and Finneytown set the ball to take the free kick with about 12 seconds left on the clock. As the clock was winding down the opposing player literally stood in front of the ball so that the kick could not be taken and the official did nothing about it allowing time to expire. His explanation to the players and coaches was, "I can put 1 second back on the clock but you aren't going to score from there."

This is the type of attitude that an official has that I have a problem with. I believe what should have been done is the clock should have been stopped as soon as the player stepped in front of the ball and the official saw that he would not back off. The player should have been cautioned and there would have been enough time for the ball to be served into the box. Would a goal have resulted? Who knows? What matters to me (and I assure you the players and fans and coaches involved) is that the official takes pride in his job.

Tactically the player arguably did the right thing by delaying the free kick but the center should have done the right thing and stopped time since he has discretion over the game clock at that point and he should have cautioned the player for dissent or time wasting.

On a side note I thought that the AR's did a nice job in this game but the center was very inconsistent for both teams and did not keep up with the play.

[sportscenter00]

sportscenter00 agree with some of your perceptions, disagree with others.

I was on the FF side a few rows up and just to the left (from the X side) of where the incident happened. I was probably 20 yards away and looking down on it. I had a pretty clear view, probably better than most of the players unless they were in that part of the field.

What I saw was this. The two kids went hard after the ball on the sideline. At the sideline the FF kid stepped in front of the X kid and shielded the ball. He got his hip into the lower body of the X player and the kid went flying. . .hard. . .into the wall. I saw him leave his feet but only heard the impact. Didn't sound good. However, it is not accurate to say that the FF player shoved the X player into the wall. Most soccer players, this one included, do not have enough muscle mass to shove someone that size into a wall that hard that is probably 5-6 yards away. Momentum was very much a factor. That much directional momentum was present because the X player was not entirely under control. However, it is most likely true that the X player probably would not have hit the wall if the FF player did not step in front him.

I also think you unduly villify FF fans. There was an issue going on between the referee and the FF coach regarding the call. FF fans could hear the conversation from their side and they were upset that the ref was not even willing to listen to the coach. I agree that as a group, they were not mindful enough of the situation with the player. However, some important points you omitted was that someone from the St X side, I believe a coach, was yelling at the FF coach while the FF coach was trying to get the Center to come over and talk with him. THAT brought out a severe case of the boo-birds from the FF side. This went on for a sizable portion of that 2-3 minute time frame you mentioned. The ref finally had to intervene and send the St X person to the sideline as they did not seem to be willing to stop on their own. Even then, if you noticed, a number of the FF JV players went down to the railing by the sideline to see how things were going with him. Some other kids followed them down and I honestly do not know if the motivation of the other kids but the JV players were concerned with his injury. Furthermore, there were a number of people on the FF side who were concerned for the player and were very much relieved to see him finally up and making his way to the bench.

This game has been long gone and over with. Both teams have other fish to fry. I appreciate that you approached this in a mature and tactful manner. However, I do feel as if your response was one-sided and had a tendency to cast a whole group of people (FF parents/fans) in an unfavorable light. My personal opinion is that group villification only makes it easier to disrespect parents/coaches/players/fans of other teams and does not do much to foster sportsmanship. As such, I felt I needed to put my two cents in.

I appreciate your candid response, and by no means am I casting a shadow among the entire FF community that rabidly supports their teams (especially soccer). I have close friends from the Fairfield community, and thus why I think I hold them to a higher standard than others.

I was just stating that specific incident looked weird to me from the St. X side... when medical personel is with a kid who just hit his back and head against a metal wall, and parents/coaches/etc. are more worried about the yellow card and a throw in, who gives a s%&t? Seriously, this is a game, and you're getting incensed about a throw in vs. a kids safety? That's all I cared about, I honestly could have cared less about giving the FF kid a yellow. I did not notice the argument between any St. X coach and the FF side, which would make sense to the arguing going back and forth. I just missed it.

I guess as I'm getting older, I'm getting more and more aware of the ridiculousness of people, especially in groups. I won't begin to believe that one parent on the FF side would ever say win-at-all-costs (ie. hurting another player). I do believe, however, that some parents when put in a mob-mentality situation, will tend to lean towards acting much more irrational than they normally would, ie. worrying more about a throw in vs. free kick than a kids safety. Just my opinion, I know there were a lot of people who applauded when he got up on the Fairfield side.

I didn't mean to post about this a week after the fact, but the topic was broached. Good luck to Fairfield the rest of the way, hopefully they can find a way to turn the season around. That's the best part about soccer - you catch fire near the end of the season, you can make a great run into the postseason.

[sportscenter00]

* As to the wall, shame on X for allowing such an obviously dangerous situation to exist! The wall isn't more then 5 feet from the line. I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often! If my kid was hurt on that wall I would be livid and I would give the X athletic director a piece of my mind. Why don't the fools at X PAD the wall?

* Oh and to top matters off, the ref was so concerned about the kid that he RESUMED play with the kid still on the sideline! Talk about a dangerous situation!

My advice to X fans is to talk to your AD and demand that the walls are padded before a kid is really hurt! I'm surprised the refs or league officials haven't thought about this. Well, now you've been warned! We all saw what happened! Next time you're going to have a lawyers feeding frenzy!

Good points, all discussed among the stands during the rest of the game... The problem is that the soccer lines are so close to the outside of the stadium since the field is so wide, that it causes huge logistical problems for St. X. To pad the entire stadium would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, because you're not just talking about the one part of the stadium where he got hurt, you're talking about all of the fencing and cement wall on the St. X side - I know it's cheaper than a lawsuit... but still.

I was a little confused about the return to action as well by the center ref, it seemed a little early and the St. X player wasn't yet up, so it seemed kinda weird. Basically that whole sequence was weird, point blank.

[lotr10]

Good points, all discussed among the stands during the rest of the game... The problem is that the soccer lines are so close to the outside of the stadium since the field is so wide, that it causes huge logistical problems for St. X. To pad the entire stadium would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, because you're not just talking about the one part of the stadium where he got hurt, you're talking about all of the fencing and cement wall on the St. X side - I know it's cheaper than a lawsuit... but still.

I was a little confused about the return to action as well by the center ref, it seemed a little early and the St. X player wasn't yet up, so it seemed kinda weird. Basically that whole sequence was weird, point blank.

Keep in mind that the yellow card/throw in and the player down were two separate events. I was worried about the X kid when I heard him hit the wall but from my angle I could see him sitting up and he looked okay as the trainers worked on him. What got the FF side riled up was the attitude of the center ref. With play stopped he had an opportunity to talk to the FF coach and explain his decision. What got the FF crowd riled up was his dismissive attitude.

We both agree on one thing though. I thought starting play back up with the X kid still on the sideline was inexcusable and that the ref should be suspended for the rest of the year. Given how tight it is along the wall, the odds of another accident were heightened. I would have had no problem sitting there for 30 minutes if that's how long it took before the kid could be moved. Very odd decision by the center ref!

While I don't speak for all fans, trust me when I say that a kids safety comes first for me. It's just that in this situation, it looked like the X trainers were testing for a concussion and that you could tell nothing serious had happened. Though the initial "crash" was very loud and drew an "Oh no" from the FF crowd when it happened.

[soref]

I thought starting play back up with the X kid still on the sideline was inexcusable and that the ref should be suspended for the rest of the year.

I think a suspension for this would be WAY out of line.
If either school thinks that an official has performed his/her job in a way that did not put the safety of the players first, then a report can be filed by the school.

I am pretty sure that all of St. X's games are recorded by Waycross Community Media (I could be wrong). If this game was taped, then the tape could be reviewed. If anything was considered to be done wrong by the official, this could be used as a learning experience.

Also, whether fans want to agree or not, usually the ref that you have doing the middle on a St. X game is a very good ref. The assignors for the GCL don't just put a warm body out there to do a game. So suspending an official for something like this would be way out of line.

[soref]

Here is a question for our referees (phatneff & soref)....

What is the typical course of action a center should take for a player that knocks the ball away after a foul is called when the player is obviously doing so in order to waste time and prevent a quick restart?

Secondly, how do you deal with a player who intentionally stands in front of the ball when a foul is called to prevent a quick restart or to not allow the opposing player to play the ball? One ref will state in his pregame address that if you don't give an automatic 10 yards then he will caution you while the next ref will not even address the player that intentionally stands in front of the ball.

In the closing seconds of the Indian Hill - Finneytown match the center official called a foul around midfield and Finneytown set the ball to take the free kick with about 12 seconds left on the clock. As the clock was winding down the opposing player literally stood in front of the ball so that the kick could not be taken and the official did nothing about it allowing time to expire. His explanation to the players and coaches was, "I can put 1 second back on the clock but you aren't going to score from there."

This is the type of attitude that an official has that I have a problem with. I believe what should have been done is the clock should have been stopped as soon as the player stepped in front of the ball and the official saw that he would not back off. The player should have been cautioned and there would have been enough time for the ball to be served into the box. Would a goal have resulted? Who knows? What matters to me (and I assure you the players and fans and coaches involved) is that the official takes pride in his job.

Tactically the player arguably did the right thing by delaying the free kick but the center should have done the right thing and stopped time since he has discretion over the game clock at that point and he should have cautioned the player for dissent or time wasting.

On a side note I thought that the AR's did a nice job in this game but the center was very inconsistent for both teams and did not keep up with the play.


I can't say anything for what happened in this game because there are a lot of other variables that could have lead to the officials decision.

I can say this though:
I do sometimes mention to players in the pre-game speach that 10 yards is mandatory and actions like what is mentioned will not be tolerated. That is the warning for all players, so if it is done, they won't be surprised if they do receive a caution.
If a player blatently steps in front of a ball (I mean RIGHT in front of the ball) where it is obvious that he is trying to stop a fast restart, by rule a caution should be given. Again, there are different variables that would be taken into consideration by the official on how this is handled. The same goes with playing the ball away after a foul has been called.

In the example given above for the FT/IH game, the official certainly has the ability to stop the clock or add time to the clock. But again, there are many different variables that would go into the decision making on that play.

Sorry if this is not the answer that you were looking for.
I do agree with you though that something COULD have been done, but it is to the judgement of the referee on how the situation is handled.

[lotr10]

I think a suspension for this would be WAY out of line.
If either school thinks that an official has performed his/her job in a way that did not put the safety of the players first, then a report can be filed by the school.

I am pretty sure that all of St. X's games are recorded by Waycross Community Media (I could be wrong). If this game was taped, then the tape could be reviewed. If anything was considered to be done wrong by the official, this could be used as a learning experience.

Also, whether fans want to agree or not, usually the ref that you have doing the middle on a St. X game is a very good ref. The assignors for the GCL don't just put a warm body out there to do a game. So suspending an official for something like this would be way out of line.

So you believe that play should be started back up when a kid is receiving medical attention on the sideline! Sorry, I don't buy it. All kids receiving treatment should be back at the bench or completely away from the field before play is resumed.

As far as the GCL, I only saw one GCL game but the crew at X that night couldn't hold a candle to the outstanding officials I've seen this year in the GMC! The GMC has done a great job with their officials this year. That crew on Saturday night was not very good and I would not have appreciated my kid getting a ball in the head or having a kid fall on him AFTER he had just gone into the wall!

[phatneff]

I can't say anything for what happened in this game because there are a lot of other variables that could have lead to the officials decision.

I can say this though:
I do sometimes mention to players in the pre-game speach that 10 yards is mandatory and actions like what is mentioned will not be tolerated. That is the warning for all players, so if it is done, they won't be surprised if they do receive a caution.
If a player blatently steps in front of a ball (I mean RIGHT in front of the ball) where it is obvious that he is trying to stop a fast restart, by rule a caution should be given. Again, there are different variables that would be taken into consideration by the official on how this is handled. The same goes with playing the ball away after a foul has been called.

In the example given above for the FT/IH game, the official certainly has the ability to stop the clock or add time to the clock. But again, there are many different variables that would go into the decision making on that play.

Sorry if this is not the answer that you were looking for.
I do agree with you though that something COULD have been done, but it is to the judgement of the referee on how the situation is handled.

Soref is absolutely correct on this. There are many variables that play into both scenarios. I, personally, tend to not say anything about the 10 yard rule in the pregame because it IS known that 10 yards are automatic. Anytime someone is within the 10 yards right away, it is most likely their intention to stall play. However, depending on the flow of the match, and at what point the match is in at the time, a verbal caution is all that's necessary. In your scenario, a documented caution with a stoppage of the clock was well warranted. You are also correct with the fact that the official's comments were unnecessary. He/she has no right to predict what could possibly happen.

I cautioned a girl last night for playing the ball after the whistle was blown, but this was because it was the second time I had to tell her. Normally, I just give the verbal caution and it doesn't happen again.

[phatneff]

So you believe that play should be started back up when a kid is receiving medical attention on the sideline! Sorry, I don't buy it. All kids receiving treatment should be back at the bench or completely away from the field before play is resumed.

As far as the GCL, I only saw one GCL game but the crew at X that night couldn't hold a candle to the outstanding officials I've seen this year in the GMC! The GMC has done a great job with their officials this year. That crew on Saturday night was not very good and I would not have appreciated my kid getting a ball in the head or having a kid fall on him AFTER he had just gone into the wall!

I don't think Soref is saying that play should have been restarted with the kid still down on the sideline. Then again, I don't know, especially because I don't know exactly where this was on the sideline. I, personally, would attend to the player and check with the trainer and coaches to see the severity of the injury. If it was mild enough as to where the trainers could do there job without the player being a distraction to the game, why not continue play? If the severity is unknown at the time, there is no reason then why play should NOT be halted until order is restored with the injury. The clock has stopped at this point, so it's not as if time is being wasted. Play can resume once everything checks out ok, even if the player is still over at the sideline, away from any further threat of danger.

[soref]

So you believe that play should be started back up when a kid is receiving medical attention on the sideline! Sorry, I don't buy it. All kids receiving treatment should be back at the bench or completely away from the field before play is resumed.

As far as the GCL, I only saw one GCL game but the crew at X that night couldn't hold a candle to the outstanding officials I've seen this year in the GMC! The GMC has done a great job with their officials this year. That crew on Saturday night was not very good and I would not have appreciated my kid getting a ball in the head or having a kid fall on him AFTER he had just gone into the wall!

I am not saying that in that scenario play should have been restarted, because I don't know of everything that was going on.
Have I started play with a player off the side of the field receiving medical attention? Yes, I have. As long as a player is out of the field of play and not in an area that would put him/herself or any other players in a dangerous situation play can be restarted.
Again, it all depends on the situation and where it is being taken place.

As to the comment about GMC/GCL officials, they really can't be compared.
The reason being, most officials do games in all leagues.
The reason that I made the comment that I did was because I know that the assignor for the GCL always puts good officials on matches that is known to be an intense or difficult match.
Whether it is your opinion that they were "good" or not, is exactly that; your opinion.
You also can't stereotype a group of people (GCL officials) by witnessing one GCL match.

[WX Dude]

I am pretty sure that all of St. X's games are recorded by Waycross Community Media (I could be wrong).

Waycross can't cover all the games. Only two regular season games are scheduled for X Men's Soccer. Alter which is available on the www.waycross.tv site now and the LaSalle game coming up in October. Those that are not familiar with the X soccer field can look at the Alter game on line to see just how close the side lines are to the wall and fences!

[acmilan13]

WX - How long will games be available for online viewing once they are on the website? Will the IH - FT game be available soon as well? Not sure if you guys were there or not....

[WX Dude]

We were not at the FT/IH game. The men's games we were at for Finneytown were vs Northwest and Walnut Hills (or as the 8th grade graphics guy/director had it for the reserve game... Wallnut hils). Both are on line now.

Finneytown, Winton Woods and St. X tournament soccer will be covered starting with Sectional Finals whenever possible.

On tap for TV coverage

10/8 Northwest @ Winton Woods HS Men's Var. Soccer (no reserve team at WW by Coaches' choice)
10/13 LaSalle @ St. Xavier HS Men's Res. Soccer
10/13 LaSalle @ St. Xavier HS Men's Var. Soccer

As to how long the games stay on the system, right now everything is up in the air. However if you want to capture the stream and keep it on your system, do the following:

Download a freeware program called VLC Media Player and install it on your system.

Find the .wmv name to the embedded stream on the Waycross site. Do this by opening the page on the Waycross site and view the source code (click VIEW then Source) run a word search for .wmv and you will get something like http://70.61.148.132/WXOD/WCT%2016019.WMV (this is the Taylor @ Fin. Football game from Friday)

Open VLC Media Player - Click file "wizard"

Follow the prompts and enter the wmv URL you want. It does it in real time so be prepared for it to take a couple of hours.

[CUP91]

I thought the CR for this game did an outstanding job. His mechanics were flawless -- more than once, he let advantage continue and at the next stoppage, handed out a YC or RC. I know the East parents were upset because one of their players caught an inadvertent elbow (resulting in a bloodied face) in the 73rd minute right before Loveland scored the winning goal... It was a highly charged game and the CR did a good job in controlling emotions and stayed up with the run of play in what was a track meet at times.

[StXSoccer16]

not to bring this thread back or anything but the refs for the colerain x game were basically the worst refs i have ever had and i have been playing for 15 years. the AR gave colerain a pk on a play where a guy on our team jumps up for a header and the colerain guy bends over so it looks like he jumped over him. the center ref then acts like he called it when in fact he thought the AR was calling offsides. overall st x possessed the ball for basically 75% of the game and about 15 more shots then colerain but lose 1-0 because a ref has no idea what he is doing.:shrug:

[WX Dude]

That game is lost somewhere on the Waycross web site. The call that resulted in the Colerain penalty kick was, at first glance okay, (I was only half paying attention) but in replay it is clear that the Colerain player backed into the St. X defensive man. The st. X defender jumped straight up and the colerain man backed into him causing what looked like a jumping over the back if you only caught the tail end.


www.waycross.tv (once it is fixed AGAIN!)
http://70.61.148.132/WXOD/WCT%2016083.wmv for now

[soccerfan40]

After reading some of the excerpts from previous posts I had to join. Some of the comments are right on and some are not. I played soccer at the Div II level for the University of Tampa, I have coached at a school that has won two OHSAA state championships, and now I am a referee. I became a referee soley because there were to many officials that "couldn't keep up".

I thought that being a referee would be easy since I had the experience of being a player and then coaching at the high school level. I WAS WRONG!! Being an official is one of the hardest, but most enjoyable, jobs that I have ever had. Note that I said job. I look at being a referee as a job. I want to be the best or strive to be. Am I going to make mistakes in the eyes of the coaches, fans, etc.? You bet. The one thing that I have learned since being an official is that consistency is very, very important. The players and coaches need to adjust their thinking to the way the game is being called.

Some officials call a game very close and others let it become rugby. I try to stay in the middle, unless I have had the teams previously and they have demonstrated to me that they can't handle a game that is officiated loosely.

In any sport, it is always in the opinion of the referee. It happens in basketball, football, and soccer. Coaches and players know when an official shows up what kind of game they can expect to be called.

I will touch on one more subject and then quit until further posts. The OHSAA is big on respecting the game. We as officials are required to read a card about sportsmanship before every game and are required to check shinquards and other things. The sportsmanship card is, to me, a big joke. Once the players reach the sideline after the pregame speech, sportsmanship usually goes out the window. Respecting the game is about respecting all aspects of the game. Players, Coaching, and Officials, and the Laws of the Game. I knew when I became an official that being yelled at is part of the job. However, I do not need to be made an example of, or be shown up. If any player or coach asks me in a "respectful" manner, I will do my best to give him an answer. The problem is that when I give a player or coach the answer and they don't like it they continue to scream and be beligerent. When it comes to judgement calls it is all up to the discretion of the center official. If a CR doesn't know the rule or is giving the wrong interpretation to a coach or player than the official should be "coached" as well. Just because I am an official doesn't give the green light to all that are in attendance to scream and yell for the entire game. I have never seen an official change a call because a coach said he should. I have seen a call changed after conferring with the other official or officials involved in the game.

The last point and then I will quit. The shinguard rule. It in my opinion that this is absurd. If a kid wants to wear a shinguard that only covers a portion of his shin, then so be it. However, I as an official I work for the OHSAA not the schools, players, and coaches. If my boss tells me to enforce one of the rules, than I will. The problem again is consistency. Some games players will be made to change and others they will not. If you continually do something that you boss tells you not to do, you will eventually get fired.

As an official, I strive to be the best. I am glad this is posted and have read the comments, both good and bad, and will take them accordingly. It is easy to complain and be angry, but remember until you are a referee and have walked in those shoes it is hard to judge fairly.

[ColerainWinsAgain]

Soref is absolutely correct on this. There are many variables that play into both scenarios. I, personally, tend to not say anything about the 10 yard rule in the pregame because it IS known that 10 yards are automatic. Anytime someone is within the 10 yards right away, it is most likely their intention to stall play. However, depending on the flow of the match, and at what point the match is in at the time, a verbal caution is all that's necessary. In your scenario, a documented caution with a stoppage of the clock was well warranted. You are also correct with the fact that the official's comments were unnecessary. He/she has no right to predict what could possibly happen.

I cautioned a girl last night for playing the ball after the whistle was blown, but this was because it was the second time I had to tell her. Normally, I just give the verbal caution and it doesn't happen again.

When I was a player I would make the ref back me up 10 yards every time. I was a very physical, shoulder to shoulder player that tried to push the buttons of the other team (I never played in HS so don't try to pick me out). If they didn't ask for 10 yards I didn't give it to them. I also took very small steps when the ref told me to move back, if he wants me to move back a certain distance he can tell me to move back that distance. The other thing you have to do is step forward when the opposing team member starts his run.

As a referee I didn't grant 10 yards unless the player asked for it. I know it's a rule, but if they really want it they'll ask for it. Again, I know that you're going to take 1 inch steps if I tell you to take X steps back, so I say give me 2 yards or however much.

But hey, I guess I'm different then most. If you don't appreciate the rule you don't deserve the 10 yards, therefore if you don't ask for it you don't get it.

[CUP91]

When I was a player I would make the ref back me up 10 yards every time. I was a very physical, shoulder to shoulder player that tried to push the buttons of the other team (I never played in HS so don't try to pick me out). If they didn't ask for 10 yards I didn't give it to them. I also took very small steps when the ref told me to move back, if he wants me to move back a certain distance he can tell me to move back that distance. The other thing you have to do is step forward when the opposing team member starts his run.

As a referee I didn't grant 10 yards unless the player asked for it. I know it's a rule, but if they really want it they'll ask for it. Again, I know that you're going to take 1 inch steps if I tell you to take X steps back, so I say give me 2 yards or however much.

But hey, I guess I'm different then most. If you don't appreciate the rule you don't deserve the 10 yards, therefore if you don't ask for it you don't get it.

See now, this is what drives many referees nuts. It's one thing to be 8+ yards away but to be less than 5 and only to give 10+ grudgingly?? That's an automatic yellow (or, could be). And, if you begin infringing before the kick, same thing. Again, the offensive team does not have to ask for 10, the defending team is required to give 10. I hope you realize that a team could attempt a quick restart with someone failing to give 10 yards and nail the kid in the face and the kid (who was struck) could be given a yellow and the kick retaken?? But hey, I understand teams/players doing this in dangerous areas where they want to be sure that they are setup defensively and realizing it could cost them a caution..

[phatneff]

When I was a player I would make the ref back me up 10 yards every time. I was a very physical, shoulder to shoulder player that tried to push the buttons of the other team (I never played in HS so don't try to pick me out). If they didn't ask for 10 yards I didn't give it to them. I also took very small steps when the ref told me to move back, if he wants me to move back a certain distance he can tell me to move back that distance. The other thing you have to do is step forward when the opposing team member starts his run.

As a referee I didn't grant 10 yards unless the player asked for it. I know it's a rule, but if they really want it they'll ask for it. Again, I know that you're going to take 1 inch steps if I tell you to take X steps back, so I say give me 2 yards or however much.

But hey, I guess I'm different then most. If you don't appreciate the rule you don't deserve the 10 yards, therefore if you don't ask for it you don't get it.

Either way, it's a yellow card caution for Unsportsmanlike Conduct/Unsporting Behavior (delay of game or encroachment, depending on the situation).

[Statechamps02]

I think it can go both ways. I don't think defensive players should be allowed on top of the ball. That is delay of game because the other team may want a quick restart. But as a player, I will walk 5-8 steps in front of the ball and I won't back up until told to do so if the ball is in good shooting distance. I will make the referee give me 10 yards b/c 10 yards is different to each ref (unless on a field marked with football lines obviously). Also, I will make the ref back me up so I can have the play start on his whistle so my goalie will not be caught off guard while setting the wall. So I don't think it is wrong for players to 5 yards back from the ball. Some crazy ref might take it as 10. Other refs make 10 yards turn into 15. Sad, yet true, some players don't know how far back 10 actually is unless they walked it off. It's somewhat subjective.

[soref]

I think it can go both ways. I don't think defensive players should be allowed on top of the ball. That is delay of game because the other team may want a quick restart. But as a player, I will walk 5-8 steps in front of the ball and I won't back up until told to do so if the ball is in good shooting distance. I will make the referee give me 10 yards b/c 10 yards is different to each ref (unless on a field marked with football lines obviously). Also, I will make the ref back me up so I can have the play start on his whistle so my goalie will not be caught off guard while setting the wall. So I don't think it is wrong for players to 5 yards back from the ball. Some crazy ref might take it as 10. Other refs make 10 yards turn into 15. Sad, yet true, some players don't know how far back 10 actually is unless they walked it off. It's somewhat subjective.

You can tell the difference between a player who just sets up away from the ball thinking that they are far enough and the player who is deliberatly keeping the play from a restart by standing in front of the ball.

[Statechamps02]

Yes you can. That's why I'm saying no player should ever give an automatic ten yards right off the bat because the ref might let them get away with 8. You never know. Cardable offenses on restarts are obvious one's I think.