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[Chicago]

Somebody take a shot at SLC or Lakeland to get things going again.

By the way, the College Football board makes this board look like a Nobel Prize dinner.

[Bordertown]

No bored by the subject but I think football in Vermont is pathetic. But I do like their maple syrup.

[SLCDad]

Somebody take a shot at SLC or Lakeland to get things going again.

By the way, the College Football board makes this board look like a Nobel Prize dinner.

I'm wondering if DLS will EVER get back to national prominence now that an improved (not great but improved) California playoff has exposed them as being less than elite.

[consumerman]

I'm wondering if DLS will EVER get back to national prominence now that an improved (not great but improved) California playoff has exposed them as being less than elite.

losing one game in 2006 with a team with maybe 1 Div 1 recruit does not diminish what the great streak teams that had up to 10 Div 1 recruits accomplished

that you can not understand this speaks volumes

[SLCDad]

losing one game in 2006 with a team with maybe 1 Div 1 recruit does not diminish what the great streak teams that had up to 10 Div 1 recruits accomplished

that you can not understand this speaks volumes

Hee hee. It worked.

Chicago: Let me know if I can be of service again. Can you believe he responded within 2 minutes? Wow.

-

[consumerman]

oh well
there is SO much action on this site (NOT)

I havent been here in 2 weeks and except for a few boring diatribes between pied and bordertown there is nothing else to look at

[SLCDad]

losing one game in 2006 with a team with maybe 1 Div 1 recruit does not diminish what the great streak teams that had up to 10 Div 1 recruits accomplished

that you can not understand this speaks volumes

I see you are as gracious as ever. LOL No need to be so paranoid. Nobody said anything about your precious streak.

Honestly, do you think DLS will be an elite team this year? Since they haven't had a truly great season since 2003, I'm wondering if they will ever get back to national prominence again.

What do you think? Do you see them appearing in the national rankings this year?

[EaglePride01]

What do you guys think about Jamie DeMoney informing the Cincinnati Enquirer that he will most likely start St. X off as the preseason #1 in the Prepnation poll? I assumed that spot would have been reserved for SLC or Northwestern.

[Bordertown]

It's not how you start, but how you finish. If you finish #1 in the nation, it will be disputed. The only thing that is certain is how a team finishes in its state or sectional competition.

[SLCDad]

What do you guys think about Jamie DeMoney informing the Cincinnati Enquirer that he will most likely start St. X off as the preseason #1 in the Prepnation poll? I assumed that spot would have been reserved for SLC or Northwestern.

That would be interesting considering NONE of the human polls ranked St.X last year in the top 25 (final polls). Jamie DeMoney himself didn't even rank St.X. The best he could do was rank St.X at 7th in the mid-west.

Considering all the talent that Miami Northwestern has coming back, plus some transfers, putting St.X at #1 seems like a huge leap in logic to me. Does Jamie DeMoney know something we don't?

Having said that, the early polls don't mean a whole lot. The season will sort out the rankings anyway.

-

[consumerman]

I see you are as gracious as ever. LOL No need to be so paranoid. Nobody said anything about your precious streak.

Honestly, do you think DLS will be an elite team this year? Since they haven't had a truly great season since 2003, I'm wondering if they will ever get back to national prominence again.

What do you think? Do you see them appearing in the national rankings this year?



the rumor is that a new leader of dls (whatever they call it, head father or whatever) became concerned that dls was becoming too famous as a football factory and decided to step in and halt possible new students that were also outstanding football players (dls costs about 8,000 a year to attend and there is a limited number of grants available)

this happened about 5-6 years ago

the first football team to truly be hit by this policy was the 2004 team, which played an unbelievingly tough schedule, but nonetheless started out 2-3-2 and had less talent that any dls team in 20 years

the 2005 and 2006 teams were not that much better talentwise, I do think moving them into the #1 ranking by USA Today was a bit of a stretch

I do not see DLS being a top national team if this policy (a rumor but probably true nonetheless) continues

and again that is the rumor but it seems to have played out as far as athletes

[SLCDad]

the rumor is that a new leader of dls (whatever they call it, head father or whatever) became concerned that dls was becoming too famous as a football factory and decided to step in and halt possible new students that were also outstanding football players (dls costs about 8,000 a year to attend and there is a limited number of grants available)

this happened about 5-6 years ago

the first football team to truly be hit by this policy was the 2004 team, which played an unbelievingly tough schedule, but nonetheless started out 2-3-2 and had less talent that any dls team in 20 years

the 2005 and 2006 teams were not that much better talentwise, I do think moving them into the #1 ranking by USA Today was a bit of a stretch

I do not see DLS being a top national team if this policy (a rumor but probably true nonetheless) continues

and again that is the rumor but it seems to have played out as far as athletes

Do you realize what you just posted?

You said that DLS had been offering scholarships (grants) to great football players. You said that is the reason the talent on the team has dropped. The implication is that these grants are the reason DLS was great in the past (they had given grants to great players). You may say that is not recruiting, but it's very close.

Wow.

[EaglePride01]

It's not how you start, but how you finish. If you finish #1 in the nation, it will be disputed. The only thing that is certain is how a team finishes in its state or sectional competition.

Completely agreed. But if St. X runs their gaunlet of Glenville, DeMatha, St. Edward, Elder, Moeller, St. Ignatius, and than a possible regional showdown with Colerain and whoever they may face in a state championship, I believe they will certainly have earned it.

[consumerman]

Do you realize what you just posted?

You said that DLS had been offering scholarships (grants) to great football players. You said that is the reason the talent on the team has dropped. The implication is that these grants are the reason DLS was great in the past (they had given grants to great players). You may say that is not recruiting, but it's very close.

Wow.

i think you are missing it


instead of allowing a few athletes to be blindly involved in receiving grants (less than the % of football players per total student population) the rumor is this guy has gone out of his way to even stop that

[Bordertown]

A applaude the Head. Athletics is to complement academics and not the other way around. DLS as an institution will survive into the future based on how it prepares its young men for college and the success they have academically and professionally later in life.

I am aware of some schools that seem to recruit for athletics first and academics second. They seem to spend an excessive amount of time defending their institutions academically. This is wasted effort. I have never questioned whether DLS has misplaced priorities.

[Bordertown]

Completely agreed. But if St. X runs their gaunlet of Glenville, DeMatha, St. Edward, Elder, Moeller, St. Ignatius, and than a possible regional showdown with Colerain and whoever they may face in a state championship, I believe they will certainly have earned it.

I agree with the schedule being top notch. But in the end if SLC or MNW (or "_______" ) goes undefeated you will not know if you are the best in the nation. I agree, it would be a great feat.

[EaglePride01]

I agree with the schedule being top notch. But in the end if SLC or MNW (or "_______" ) goes undefeated you will not know if you are the best in the nation. I agree, it would be a great feat.

Well thats the case every year. I guess thats why its referred to as the "mythical" national championship.

[ams eds fan]

Completely agreed. But if St. X runs their gaunlet of Glenville, DeMatha, St. Edward, Elder, Moeller, St. Ignatius, and than a possible regional showdown with Colerain and whoever they may face in a state championship, I believe they will certainly have earned it.

Of course you and I both know they will be stopped by that number 3 team.

:thumb:

[EaglePride01]

Of course you and I both know they will be stopped by that number 3 team.

:thumb:

Its payback time!

[EaglePride01]

That would be interesting considering NONE of the human polls ranked St.X last year in the top 25 (final polls). Jamie DeMoney himself didn't even rank St.X. The best he could do was rank St.X at 7th in the mid-west.

Considering all the talent that Miami Northwestern has coming back, plus some transfers, putting St.X at #1 seems like a huge leap in logic to me. Does Jamie DeMoney know something we don't?

Having said that, the early polls don't mean a whole lot. The season will sort out the rankings anyway.

-

Prepnations justification of the X preseason ranking:

The criteria we use for compiling our preseason poll is as follows:

1) Returning talent (impact players, Division I talent, etc.): St. X has six players with Division I offers as of July 1, according to their coach.

Two of the three other teams we gave serious consideration for preseason No. 1 did have more returning Division I talent than St. X. But the total number of potential of DI/IAA players is more similar than you think.

2) Returning experienced players: St X has 15 returning full-time starters, seven of whom started as sophs on the state championship team.

Only one of the three other teams we considered have as many starters returning (DeMatha). Southlake Carroll has only three starters back on defense.

3) Returning coaching staff: St X returns its entire coaching staff, which has a 36-3 cumulative record the last three seasons.

Two of the other three teams that we gave serious consideration to for the preseason No. 1 ranking enter the year with a new HC and new coordinators. One team (Miami NW) has an entirely new staff that didn't come on board until midway through July.

4) Strength of schedule: St X plays arguably the toughest regular season schedule in the country. Every team on its schedule had at least a 5-5 record last season (LaSalle and Moeller) with a cumulative record of 86-29. Probably five opponents will be in the Ohio Top 10 to start the year. In addition, they will play Top 5-ranked DeMatha, Top 50-ranked Glenville and Louisville Trinity, plus defending Indiana 3A champ Cathedral.

The three other teams we gave serious consideration to for preseason No. 1 do not play a regular season schedule that is comparable to St. X's. Miami Northwestern, for example, will play Southlake Carroll. However, the in-state teams on their schedule had only a combined 56-45-1 record last season and zero of those teams figure to be in the overall state Top 10 to start the season (probably not even the Top 20).

5) Ability to achieve a significant postseason championship. In our opinion, winning the Ohio D1 is often more difficult than winning a title in Texas, Florida or California because the large schools are split into more divisions in those states.

So, strength of schedule is a factor ... but it is not the ONLY factor.

Think of it as a stew ... beef is an ingredient, but not the ONLY ingredient


So there you have it.

[SLCDad]

Nobody in the country has as much returning talent as Miami Northwestern. They have THREE players in the national top 100! That is off the charts. SLC has never had a top 100 player. I doubt StX has any either this year. MNW has three.

The downside to MNW is that their entire coaching staff was fired about a month ago for cheating in the Easterling situation. They hired a two-time state champion coach so I'm guessing they will be fine at coach.

You said StX should be ranked high because they have a tough schedule. Isn't it to early for that to be a factor? If they win against a tough schedule, THEN should they be rewarded.

I believe the winner of the SLC/MNW game deserves to be #1 in the national polls. Both teams are defending state champs in major football states and both have a large number of players coming back.

[RidgePride]

Hee hee. It worked.

Chicago: Let me know if I can be of service again. Can you believe he responded within 2 minutes? Wow.

-

LMAO

[RidgePride]

Nobody in the country has as much returning talent as Miami Northwestern. They have THREE players in the national top 100! That is off the charts. SLC has never had a top 100 player. I doubt StX has any either this year. MNW has three.

The downside to MNW is that their entire coaching staff was fired about a month ago for cheating in the Easterling situation. They hired a two-time state champion coach so I'm guessing they will be fine at coach.

You said StX should be ranked high because they have a tough schedule. Isn't it to early for that to be a factor? If they win against a tough schedule, THEN should they be rewarded.

I believe the winner of the SLC/MNW game deserves to be #1 in the national polls. Both teams are defending state champs in major football states and both have a large number of players coming back.

That guy must have ties to Ohio...That is the only explanation.

[EaglePride01]

Nobody in the country has as much returning talent as Miami Northwestern. They have THREE players in the national top 100! That is off the charts. SLC has never had a top 100 player. I doubt StX has any either this year. MNW has three.

The downside to MNW is that their entire coaching staff was fired about a month ago for cheating in the Easterling situation. They hired a two-time state champion coach so I'm guessing they will be fine at coach.

You said StX should be ranked high because they have a tough schedule. Isn't it to early for that to be a factor? If they win against a tough schedule, THEN should they be rewarded.

I believe the winner of the SLC/MNW game deserves to be #1 in the national polls. Both teams are defending state champs in major football states and both have a large number of players coming back.


None of that was from me. It was posted in the Ohio football forum by one of Prepnations staff, perhaps DeMoney himself. He was explaining to everyone why X was garnishing the #1 spot. A lot of people had a problem with strength of schedule being a deciding factor. But in todays world of high school football being brought to national attention, and with events such as the Herbie and more schools playing other out of state powers (SLC/MNW), I believe strength of schedule should be a factor in rankings.

But as you stated, its not only about scheduling the best, but beating them as well. And if X goes undefeated or even loses one game at some point in the regualr season, and then goes on to win states, I will find that more impressive than an undefeated run by a lot of other major schools.

[SLCDad]

None of that was from me. It was posted in the Ohio football forum by one of Prepnations staff, perhaps DeMoney himself. He was explaining to everyone why X was garnishing the #1 spot. A lot of people had a problem with strength of schedule being a deciding factor. But in todays world of high school football being brought to national attention, and with events such as the Herbie and more schools playing other out of state powers (SLC/MNW), I believe strength of schedule should be a factor in rankings.

But as you stated, its not only about scheduling the best, but beating them as well. And if X goes undefeated or even loses one game at some point in the regualr season, and then goes on to win states, I will find that more impressive than an undefeated run by a lot of other major schools.

I agree that strength of schedule is an important factor. However, I think it is laughable to give a team credit for tough games that haven't even been played yet.

In the case of StX, they were very highly ranked last year and they had a tough schedule. However, they lost twice. Now we are going to give them credit for a tough schedule BEFORE the games are played? It doesn't make sense.

[Chicago]

It makes sense, IF you never jump teams over other teams that have won (although that, in itself, doesn't make sense).

This way, if they go undefeated against maybe the toughest schedule in the nation (although it might not turn out that way), they'll be number one, which makes sense (although someone with a slightly weaker schedule, or far weaker schedule, could still be better and all that).

I like jumping teams over each other. USA Today does that pretty well, I think (although the John Curtis being ranked number one with a week to go but a move down already being planned did not make a lot of sense).

And, as you have noted, computer polls jump teams all the time.

This is an improvement over the usual, but is by no means ideal.

[SLCDad]

It makes sense, IF you never jump teams over other teams that have won (although that, in itself, doesn't make sense).

This way, if they go undefeated against maybe the toughest schedule in the nation (although it might not turn out that way), they'll be number one, which makes sense (although someone with a slightly weaker schedule, or far weaker schedule, could still be better and all that).

I like jumping teams over each other. USA Today does that pretty well, I think (although the John Curtis being ranked number one with a week to go but a move down already being planned did not make a lot of sense).

And, as you have noted, computer polls jump teams all the time.

This is an improvement over the usual, but is by no means ideal.

You've highlighted one of the major flaws in the human rankings.

The computers don't have this problem. They essentially do a complete bottoms up ranking every week without any bias about reputation or jumping over another team, etc.

Obvious neither the computers nor humans are perfect. I think using them all together makes the most sense.

[consumerman]

Nobody in the country has as much returning talent as Miami Northwestern. They have THREE players in the national top 100! That is off the charts. SLC has never had a top 100 player. I doubt StX has any either this year. MNW has three.

The downside to MNW is that their entire coaching staff was fired about a month ago for cheating in the Easterling situation. They hired a two-time state champion coach so I'm guessing they will be fine at coach.

You said StX should be ranked high because they have a tough schedule. Isn't it to early for that to be a factor? If they win against a tough schedule, THEN should they be rewarded.

I believe the winner of the SLC/MNW game deserves to be #1 in the national polls. Both teams are defending state champs in major football states and both have a large number of players coming back.

In 2001, Long Beach Poly had FIVE!!!!! players in the top 100 and were ranked #1 in the country and came off 2000 where they finished #2 in the country, ranked behind #1 De La Salle.

In the first ever game between the #1 and #2 teams in the country, played AT Long Beach Poly a few weeks after Sept. 911, DLS never trailed and won 29-15.

LB Poly ran the table and despite the loss to DLS, finished #3 in the country.

FIVE in the top 100.

Top that!

[Jesse]

Do you realize what you just posted?

You said that DLS had been offering scholarships (grants) to great football players. You said that is the reason the talent on the team has dropped. The implication is that these grants are the reason DLS was great in the past (they had given grants to great players). You may say that is not recruiting, but it's very close.

Wow.

That headmaster is none other than Tom Bradys uncle.

[RidgePride]

In 2001, Long Beach Poly had FIVE!!!!! players in the top 100 and were ranked #1 in the country and came off 2000 where they finished #2 in the country, ranked behind #1 De La Salle.

FIVE in the top 100.

Top that!

Grow Up!

[SLCDad]

In 2001, Long Beach Poly had FIVE!!!!! players in the top 100 and were ranked #1 in the country and came off 2000 where they finished #2 in the country, ranked behind #1 De La Salle.

In the first ever game between the #1 and #2 teams in the country, played AT Long Beach Poly a few weeks after Sept. 911, DLS never trailed and won 29-15.

LB Poly ran the table and despite the loss to DLS, finished #3 in the country.

FIVE in the top 100.

Top that!

I'm wondering what this has to do with the 2007 pre-season rankings? Isn't that what we are talking about?

I suppose if you can't live in the present you are forced to live in the past.

(Frankly, I doubt it was five anyway. Do you have any documentation? I checked Rivals for the 2001-02 season and only found one ranked player from Long Beach.)

[DLSfanNW]

Dad, Try this list...heck LBP had four of the top 40. All four played or are playing in the NFL.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/college/recruiting/2001/recruit_101/

[RockinL]

In 2001, Long Beach Poly had FIVE!!!!! players in the top 100 and were ranked #1 in the country and came off 2000 where they finished #2 in the country, ranked behind #1 De La Salle.

In the first ever game between the #1 and #2 teams in the country, played AT Long Beach Poly a few weeks after Sept. 911, DLS never trailed and won 29-15.

LB Poly ran the table and despite the loss to DLS, finished #3 in the country.

FIVE in the top 100.

Top that!

Who also proves that having FIVE players in the High School top 100, doesnt mean you will beat everyone.

Poly may have had the individuals....but DLS had something Poly didnt have....TEAMwork. DLS also some some pretty decent talent.

[DLSfanNW]

Talent, teamwork, and discipline...this is what separates a good team from a great team and I suspect this is also a strength of SLC and is why they will beat MNW.

DLS had two players at least who made it to the NFL.

[SLCDad]

Dad, Try this list...heck LBP had four of the top 40. All four played or are playing in the NFL.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/college/recruiting/2001/recruit_101/

Thanks for the link. Very impressive.

[consumerman]

I'm wondering what this has to do with the 2007 pre-season rankings? Isn't that what we are talking about?

I suppose if you can live in the present you are forced to live in the past.

(Frankly, I doubt it was five anyway. Do you have any documentation? I checked Rivals for the 2001-02 season and only found one ranked player from Long Beach.)

nice try to avoid the comparison

you are trying to build up mnw as a monster team with three players in the top 100 and said "that was off the chart"

you also said SLC has NEVER had a top 100... what does that comment have to do with 2007 preseason rankings????????? I am assuming never would include the year 2001, in which ...

if having 3 in the top 100 is off the chart, then what is 5 of the top 72????

and 6 of the top 125???

off the universe?

jealousy is so easy to see

reminder, this was a nationally televised game and LB Poly was the #1 ranked team in the country

lb poly has had more players in the nfl than any high school in the country

the 2001 team by all accounts was there best team ever

and dls beat them handily

so if you think a mnw team that lost all its coaches and has 3 players in the top 100 as being off the chart,

I would think that educating you on what a real "off the chart" is was indeed proper

[naughty]

nice try to avoid the comparison

you are trying to build up mnw as a monster team with three players in the top 100 and said "that was off the chart"

you also said SLC has NEVER had a top 100... what does that comment have to do with 2007 preseason rankings????????? I am assuming never would include the year 2001, in which ...

if having 3 in the top 100 is off the chart, then what is 5 of the top 72????

and 6 of the top 125???

off the universe?

jealousy is so easy to see

reminder, this was a nationally televised game and LB Poly was the #1 ranked team in the country

lb poly has had more players in the nfl than any high school in the country

the 2001 team by all accounts was there best team ever

and dls beat them handily

so if you think a mnw team that lost all its coaches and has 3 players in the top 100 as being off the chart,

I would think that educating you on what a real "off the chart" is was indeed proper

All this is true. But MNW lost there coaching staff but got a better one. And i coach that is a defensive master mind. MNW wont have a problem putting points on the board. So defense is what they are going to need. And I have been to MNW games, they play as a TEAM. Something lakeland seemed to lack at times last year. Which is why they will beat slc. Superior talent, good team play and just plan out speed. Oh and dont forget a coaching staff that has won 2 state titles already. So coaching wont be a problem

[SLCDad]

nice try to avoid the comparison

you are trying to build up mnw as a monster team with three players in the top 100 and said "that was off the chart"

you also said SLC has NEVER had a top 100... what does that comment have to do with 2007 preseason rankings????????? I am assuming never would include the year 2001, in which ...

if having 3 in the top 100 is off the chart, then what is 5 of the top 72????

and 6 of the top 125???

off the universe?

jealousy is so easy to see

reminder, this was a nationally televised game and LB Poly was the #1 ranked team in the country

lb poly has had more players in the nfl than any high school in the country

the 2001 team by all accounts was there best team ever

and dls beat them handily

so if you think a mnw team that lost all its coaches and has 3 players in the top 100 as being off the chart,

I would think that educating you on what a real "off the chart" is was indeed proper

Congrats to DLS on their win which was 6 freakin years ago. Amazing how you still hang on to it. I suppose if you can't live in the present you are forced to live in the past.

MNW is probably the most athletically talented team in the country this year. They have most of their offensive and defensive starters coming back and they've got more stud athletes than anybody this year. That's just a fact.

[SLCDad]

All this is true. But MNW lost there coaching staff but got a better one. And i coach that is a defensive master mind. MNW wont have a problem putting points on the board. So defense is what they are going to need. And I have been to MNW games, they play as a TEAM. Something lakeland seemed to lack at times last year. Which is why they will beat slc. Superior talent, good team play and just plan out speed. Oh and dont forget a coaching staff that has won 2 state titles already. So coaching wont be a problem

There will be several very interesting match-ups in the SLC/MNW game. One will be MNW's defense against SLC passing attack. I looked at MNW's opponents last year and they didn't face anybody with a passing offense like SLC has. Passing teams gave MNW the most trouble, but SLC will "bring it" like nobody MNW as seen.

SLC had twice the passing attempts, three times the completions and four times the passing yards than the combined teams that MNW faced (per game average).

Here are the passing statistics of the teams that played MNW in 2006.

Total ALL teams that played MNW:
Season: 89 Completions, 235 attempts, 933 passing yards, 38% completion rate.

Per Game Ave: 6 Completions, 16 attempts, 62 passing yards, 38% completion rate.


Here is what SLC did in 2006 for the season:
Season: 307 completions, 467 attempts, 4,423 passing yards, 66% completion rate.

Per Game Ave: 19 competions, 29 attempts, 276 passing yards, 66% completion rate.


Obviously, there are other match-ups that favor MNW, but this one favors SLC.

[Chicago]

As soon as Naughty mentioned MNW having three Top 100 players, I thought of 2001 Long Beach Poly, too.

Obviously, there is a DLS connection, because DLS played (and beat) them.

But if you are talking about teams with a lot of great individual players, 2001 LBP will, and should, be mentioned, even if the discussion is about a game in 2007. They were that loaded.

[consumerman]

As soon as Naughty mentioned MNW having three Top 100 players, I thought of 2001 Long Beach Poly, too.

Obviously, there is a DLS connection, because DLS played (and beat) them.

But if you are talking about teams with a lot of great individual players, 2001 LBP will, and should, be mentioned, even if the discussion is about a game in 2007. They were that loaded.

precisely

[SLCDad]

Here is the Forbes Pre-Season All-America list.

Miami Northwestern is the only school to have 4 players on the list. Four schools have 3 players and thirty schools have 2 players.

http://prepnation.com/pix/2007/pic167.htm

[consumerman]

Thanks for the link. Very impressive.

what was impressive was that DLS beat them handily

[consumerman]

what was impressive was that DLS beat them handily

and according to you, they would be off the chart x 5

[consumerman]

Frankly, I doubt it was five anyway. Do you have any documentation

I guess you had to give up that rebuttal pretty quickly

now you are in the DLS was in the past mode

soon we will hear about slc community and crime and median income

and then the barf play

yes barf - that is a good place for slc dad's posts

[Bordertown]

Originally Posted by consumerman
what was impressive was that DLS beat them handily

and according to you, they would be off the chart x 5

Are you arguing with yourself again consumerman?

[SLCDad]

Frankly, I doubt it was five anyway. Do you have any documentation

I guess you had to give up that rebuttal pretty quickly

now you are in the DLS was in the past mode

soon we will hear about slc community and crime and median income

and then the barf play

yes barf - that is a good place for slc dad's posts

Since the Rivals list (which is much more widely used than "The Insiders 101" list) only included 1 player from Long Beach Poly that year, questioning the statement that it was 5 was logical.

By the way, everybody loved the barf play. Even President Bush mentioned it when he met with the Dodges. It deserves another post :crush: :crush:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3ZXlZ9Wxdw&mode=related&search=

You're welcome.