Northwestern vs SLC - Status

[Bordertown]

You mentioned on another thread they game was in question. What are the problems and the probability the game will go on as planned?

[consumerman]

You mentioned on another thread they game was in question. What are the problems and the probability the game will go on as planned?

the problem is slc dad spit out 7 threads about how important the game was and how it was a matchup of #1 vs #2 teams

LMAO

[yallerjacket]

the problem is slc dad spit out 7 threads about how important the game was and how it was a matchup of #1 vs #2 teams

LMAO

What happened to all these threads? I haven't seen any where he is talking about how important that game is. A lot of people agree that it will be #1 and #2. So what's the problem?

[SLCDad]

What happened to all these threads? I haven't seen any where he is talking about how important that game is. A lot of people agree that it will be #1 and #2. So what's the problem?

I'm ignoring our California friend because he pretty much just criticizes others and doesn't offer much else.

If the game happens it will be great. I have no inside information with the promoters but since no TV contract has been announced and no venue has been announced many fans are speculating the game won't happen. TV contributes to funding MNW's travel.

I've posted here that I don't agree with a team traveling over a thousand miles for a high school football game. I think that is the wrong priority. However, obviously many schools disagree with me. If MNW wants to come to Texas and play SLC more power to them. SLC has always said they will play ANYBODY but they won't travel thousands of miles to do it.

In Texas schedules are done two years at a time. After DLS changed it's mind about coming to Texas and after Evangel got treated badly by the Herbie, if the MNW game falls through I'd guess there will be a lot of coaches who won't want to schedule these kinds of games on faith. They will insist on a contract which, in all honesty, won't be a realistic option two years before the game is played.

[SLCDad]

Here is a post from a Texas board posted within the last 10 mins.

"I spoke with Coach Wasson this morning & the game is definately on for September 15th, and he is 98% sure that it will be played at Ford Stadium on the SMU campus."

This stadium seats about 30,000.

http://www.wilksmasonry.com/Project%20pics/Old%20Images/SMU_SkyCam.jpg

[yallerjacket]

Here is a post from a Texas board posted within the last 10 mins.

"I spoke with Coach Wasson this morning & the game is definately on for September 15th, and he is 98% sure that it will be played at Ford Stadium on the SMU campus."

This stadium seats about 30,000.

http://www.wilksmasonry.com/Project%20pics/Old%20Images/SMU_SkyCam.jpg

I saw that on the 5A board. I hope that guy is telling the truth and it is gonna be at Ford. I would really like to go, but I wasn't even gonna try if it was at Dragon Stadium.

[SLCDad]

I saw that on the 5A board. I hope that guy is telling the truth and it is gonna be at Ford. I would really like to go, but I wasn't even gonna try if it was at Dragon Stadium.

I'm sure the guy is telling the truth.

The last time SLC played on ESPN at Dragon Stadium the tickets sold out within a couple of hours of being offered. On game day, cars started arriving in the stadium parking lot 5 hours (or more) before kickoff.

Tickets sold on eBay for more than the Dallas Cowboys tickets were selling for that week (if memory serves, it was over $100 per ticket). Three Heisman Trophy winners were at the game. (By the way, this was the game that ESPN switched to after DLS lost up in Washington in 2004. DLS was #1 but they lost, so ESPN switched to SLC who was the new #1. It's ironic because SLC can thank DLS for the 2004 ESPN game AND for the chance to play #1 vs #2 in 2007.)

The MNW vs. SLC game could be even bigger but since the stadium is almost 3 times larger everybody should be able to get a ticket.

[consumerman]

After DLS changed it's mind about coming to Texas

wrong again

DLS NEVER committed to coming, it was offered and they NEVER moved forward with an agreement

[consumerman]

What happened to all these threads? I haven't seen any where he is talking about how important that game is. A lot of people agree that it will be #1 and #2. So what's the problem?

Here is the PROBLEMS

He says preseason rankings are meaningless
He says preseason non-conference games are meaningless
He says teams traveling 1000s of miles to play high school football have the wrong priorities and are boneheads

then SLC and MNW are rumored to have a game

He has SEVEN threads on how important it will be because they both will be highly rated in the preseason (contradiction #1)

He has SEVEN threads on how this might be the best preseason matchup ever (contradiction #2)

He has SEVEN threads on how it will a great inter-state battle between FLorida and Texas best (contradiction #3)

He does ALL SEVEN of these threads with NO PROOF that the game is on

Now he has a thread SLC-MNW game might happen

LMAO

this is THE PROBLEM

everything doesnt matter and is the wrong priority, UNTIL SLC DOES THE SAME THING

dont you get it???????????????

[consumerman]

Here are some of the threads:

THE GAME IS ON

MNW - MOST STACKED TEAM IN NATION

MIAMI NORTHWESTERN

2007 #1 vs. #2

SLC VS MNW

#1 vs #2


all this after he spent 3 months telling us preseason games are meaningless and preseason rankings dont matter

LMAO

[consumerman]

I'm ignoring our California friend because he pretty much just criticizes others and doesn't offer much else.

I guess it is better to be a biased redneck homer that thinks the high school football world history started in 2004 and that nothing and nobody else is the world is important and offers NOTHING on anybody else except SLC and/or SLC's opponent

that is a true contributor that everyone enjoys???

when he isnt calling people jerks, idiots or boneheads, he is being called out by the moderator for not having a clue on what high school sports is about and he has the gall to say someone else doesnt offer anything?


Mr Contradiction and biased homer

go to texas boards no one here cares about your slc rants and hyperbole

and what I offer is to correct all his factual and logical mistakes which are too numerous to list and I get GREAT ENJOYMENT in doing that

[pied]

I'm ignoring our California friend because he pretty much just criticizes others and doesn't offer much else.

I guess it is better to be a biased redneck homer that thinks the high school football world history started in 2004 and that nothing and nobody else is the world is important and offers NOTHING on anybody else except SLC and/or SLC's opponent

that is a true contributor that everyone enjoys???

when he isnt calling people jerks, idiots or boneheads, he is being called out by the moderator for not having a clue on what high school sports is about and he has the gall to say someone else doesnt offer anything?


Mr Contradiction and biased homer

go to texas boards no one here cares about your slc rants and hyperbole

and what I offer is to correct all his factual and logical mistakes which are too numerous to list and I get GREAT ENJOYMENT in doing that


cman-I think everyone understands what/who SLCDad is. He is a homer, who relies much upon stats, that many on this board find annoying. He promotes SLC, which to be honest is pretty easy these days.

I think most of understand that and accept it. You make a point that might downgrade SLC, and a list of SOS is certain to follow.

You on the other hand are at times baffling. You appear to have a good knowledge of HS football, in particular DLS. You ramble, many times incoherrently about the same things over and over.

If someone brings up the Herbie, you'll bash SLCDad.

If someone brings up the playoff structure, you'll bash SLCDad.

If someone asks you a direct question about DLS' experience at the Herbie, you'll bash SLCDad.

It is a truly odd fascination. For someone who puports to be a good debater, you really seem to confuse more than convince.

[Bordertown]

"I spoke with Coach Wasson this morning & the game is definately on for September 15th, and he is 98% sure that it will be played at Ford Stadium on the SMU campus."

This stadium seats about 30,000.



Great choice for a location. The 30,000 will be large enough to accommedate anyone wishing to attend while still being intimate.

Texas is playing Central Florida in Florida and A&M has La-Monroe, so they should not lose many college fans.

[pied]

Great choice for a location. The 30,000 will be large enough to accommedate anyone wishing to attend while still being intimate.

Texas is playing Central Florida in Florida and A&M has La-Monroe, so they should not lose many college fans.

The Texas UCF game was booked largely as a "good trip" for the fans. Easy way to do a side trip to Disney. Shjouldn't be that many fans that won't be there that would also go to the SLC game though.

[SLCDad]

cman-I think everyone understands what/who SLCDad is. He is a homer, who relies much upon stats, that many on this board find annoying. He promotes SLC, which to be honest is pretty easy these days.

I think most of understand that and accept it. You make a point that might downgrade SLC, and a list of SOS is certain to follow.

You on the other hand are at times baffling. You appear to have a good knowledge of HS football, in particular DLS. You ramble, many times incoherrently about the same things over and over.

If someone brings up the Herbie, you'll bash SLCDad.

If someone brings up the playoff structure, you'll bash SLCDad.

If someone asks you a direct question about DLS' experience at the Herbie, you'll bash SLCDad.

It is a truly odd fascination. For someone who puports to be a good debater, you really seem to confuse more than convince.

Since I've been ignoring that dude, it appears I've missed something. LOL

Not to worry, he will ever be on my ignore list.

He said he would do the same, but he didn't keep his word. He SHOULD keep his word.

As for the stats, I like them. I like the polls. I like the strength of schedule ratings. If you look back, you will see that I posted them when SLC was not #1. I can't wait for the 2007 season to start so I can see more stats.

[pied]

As for the stats, I like them. I like the polls. I like the strength of schedule ratings. No kidding.....If you look back, you will see that I posted them when SLC was not #1. I can't wait for the 2007 season to start so I can see more stats.

I can't wait.....

[consumerman]

cman-I think everyone understands what/who SLCDad is. He is a homer, who relies much upon stats, that many on this board find annoying. He promotes SLC, which to be honest is pretty easy these days.

I think most of understand that and accept it. You make a point that might downgrade SLC, and a list of SOS is certain to follow.

You on the other hand are at times baffling. You appear to have a good knowledge of HS football, in particular DLS. You ramble, many times incoherrently about the same things over and over.

If someone brings up the Herbie, you'll bash SLCDad.

If someone brings up the playoff structure, you'll bash SLCDad.

If someone asks you a direct question about DLS' experience at the Herbie, you'll bash SLCDad.

It is a truly odd fascination. For someone who puports to be a good debater, you really seem to confuse more than convince.


your statements are incorrect

in this instance I wa responding to SLC Dad's ridiculous statement that because DLS traveled to Washington in the first game of 2004, they have been losing ever since.

I responded by pointing out they traveled 2500 miles in 2002 to play an 18 time state champion that was nationally ranked, dls went on to win another national championship that year (why did traveling thousands of miles to play a meaningless game not lead to DLS losing every year since and why wasnt DLS a bonehead for traveling???)

I pointed out that DLS won two of its first 7 games and does SLC Dad think if they did not travel to Washington they would have gone 7-0?????

A team that goes 13-1 in 2006 and was rated #1 for 3 months can hardly be said to have "been losing ever since"

it is ridiculous statements like that that I jump on

since SLC Dad is a known entity in making ridiculous statements, I will jump on any person including SLC Dad who makes ridiculious statements

what is so hard to get?

why dont you jump on SLC Homer on responding by to a question on will you support your team signing a contract for the Herbie and he has to respond in his second line ..."look what happened to DLS, they have been losing ever since"

instead of jumping on the guy who takes on Mr Ridiculous, why dont you take him on first

[consumerman]

PIED

since you make generalizations and dont back them up with itemized documentation, here is the post I was responding to:


Look what happened to DLS after they went to Washington (which was similar type game to the Herbie). They've been losing every year since

this was FACTUALLY wrong, logically wrong and just another attempt to bash DLS

the true person with a obsessive passion to bash another school is SLC Dad and how hung up he is on DLS

that you cant see that speaks volumes of you

nevertheless I will ALWAYS call him on his mistakes, factual or logical or otherwise

[consumerman]

PIED


the MODERATOR os this board told SLC Dad he DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE about high school sports

what did you think about that??


I guess since it wasnt me you didnt jump on him>???


your true colors are showing

[consumerman]

what is SO HARD in seeing the contradiction and hippocrasy of spending three months telling every one pre-season games are meaningless and preseason and early season rankings are meaningless and teams that fly 1000s of miles for preseason games have the wrong priorities and are boneheads

..,,,,,


then after MNW and SLC game was supposedly announced, this same person had SEVEN threads on MNW-SLC and what a great matchup between intersectional teams that might be national #1 and #2 preseason


the guy did an about face BECAUSE SLC IS NOW INVOLVED

so I called him on it

WHY DOES IT BOTHER YOU???

[RidgePride]

For someone who puports to be a good debater, you really seem to confuse more than convince.

Leave consumerman alone he gives an honest effort and puts in a good solid 8 hours of posting a day. Heck somedays he may put in 12.

We all know that coherence is not one of his strengths. Sometimes it takes 9 consecutive posts to muster some sort of 'logic,'
But hey lets give him a big smiley face and an A+ sticker at the end of his painfully unintelligible rambles.

[Bordertown]

:clap: :)

[pied]

Why am I doing what I am about to do?????

[pied]

your statements are incorrect

in this instance I wa responding to SLC Dad's ridiculous statement that because DLS traveled to Washington in the first game of 2004, they have been losing ever since. -This is the only comment made about DLS by SLCDad on this thread.

After DLS changed it's mind about coming to Texas and after Evangel got treated badly by the Herbie, if the MNW game falls through I'd guess there will be a lot of coaches who won't want to schedule these kinds of games on faith.

I think that is a fair coment regarding the topic. Most in Texas rightly/wrongly assumed the DLS game was on. I have said numerous times, I don't feel that DLS acted in bad faith, but the situation certainly put SLC in a tough situation. Tougher than an Ohio or CA school because of the two year scheduling commitments Texas schools do.

I responded by pointing out they traveled 2500 miles in 2002 to play an 18 time state champion that was nationally ranked, dls went on to win another national championship that year (why did traveling thousands of miles to play a meaningless game not lead to DLS losing every year since and why wasnt DLS a bonehead for traveling???)

I pointed out that DLS won two of its first 7 games and does SLC Dad think if they did not travel to Washington they would have gone 7-0?????

A team that goes 13-1 in 2006 and was rated #1 for 3 months can hardly be said to have "been losing ever since"

it is ridiculous statements like that that I jump on-I pretty much agree with you on this point. The difference is that I discussed that point in in that thread not this one. Here is my comment:

I honestly don't think that DLS losing to Bellvue caused them to continue to lose games. I think the team was just not as good as the previous squads.


since SLC Dad is a known entity in making ridiculous statements, I will jump on any person including SLC Dad who makes ridiculious statements

what is so hard to get?-Because your posts focus on the same things, stray off topic, and for some reason you cannot make one post, but typically require several. Have you noticed, that it is noot just SLCDad, not just me, not just the Texas posters, but pretty much everyone that says the same thing about your posting.

why dont you jump on SLC Homer on responding by to a question on will you support your team signing a contract for the Herbie and he has to respond in his second line ..."look what happened to DLS, they have been losing ever since"-I did, see the above comment.

instead of jumping on the guy who takes on Mr Ridiculous, why dont you take him on first-Again, I also think it is silly to chide programs for travelling when your team has travelled 300+ miles and well over 500+ miles round trip for "meaningless" non-district games. Just because they are still in the state, doesn't negate the long distance.


So I would state that I have "jumped" on SLCDad. One difference, is that I understand what he is trying to say. While I disagree with many of his points, and certainly get tired of the stats, I can have conversations with him.

So what was I incorrect about?

[pied]

PIED

since you make generalizations and dont back them up with itemized documentation, here is the post I was responding to:


Look what happened to DLS after they went to Washington (which was similar type game to the Herbie). They've been losing every year since

this was FACTUALLY wrong, logically wrong and just another attempt to bash DLS

the true person with a obsessive passion to bash another school is SLC Dad and how hung up he is on DLS

that you cant see that speaks volumes of you

nevertheless I will ALWAYS call him on his mistakes, factual or logical or otherwise

Wow, another post on the same thread that you are debating a point not being discussed in this thread?

Who could have imagined that.

As I pointed out, I responded to him regarding this in the thread where the comment was made.

I think this was a particularly good point I made referncing DLS' trip to Seattle.

I think the games can take on too much importance, but also see real benefits. Ten years down the road, do you think the DLS teams will remember travelling to Seatle with their best friends or another random non conference game more?

[SLCDad]

So I would state that I have "jumped" on SLCDad. One difference, is that I understand what he is trying to say. While I disagree with many of his points, and certainly get tired of the stats, I can have conversations with him.

So what was I incorrect about?

We disagree on the travel part but I respect your opinion. I even posted that many fans and coaches disagree with me. No problem. Coach Dodge agrees with me, however, and it's hard to argue with his success.

My opinion is that traveling over 1,000 miles to play in state vs. state challenge games is the wrong priority. I think it serves more as a distraction than it does to build a football program. Yeah, the kids will enjoy the trip and it will be a good memory, I agree, but that doesn't mean it helps the team. (My guess is that state vs. state bravado is one of the reasons the coaches schedule these games.)

In another post you mentioned that other school groups travel for competitions and other events. A major difference however is that these trips are not usually paid by the district. The kids have fund raisers or pay their own way to travel. They often work for months to earn money and get ready.

I also don't think that traveling 250 miles by bus to play in-state is the same thing as traveling 1,500 miles to another state. They are not equivalent in my opinion even though you have tried to equate them. I don't buy your argument here.

Regarding Miami Northwestern, I don't think they have their priorities straight. However, as long as they have decided to come, it will be a great game. There is much to discuss and much anticipation about this game.

[pied]

PIED


the MODERATOR os this board told SLC Dad he DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE about high school sports

what did you think about that??


I guess since it wasnt me you didnt jump on him>???


your true colors are showing

Wow, your third consecutive post on this thread w/in 15 minutes.....

I think SLCDad does have a clue about HS sports. I do think his vision can be short sighted to one team and half decade. I think he relies on comuter stats too much, and makes conclusions about them.

I also think he has an easy case to make. His team has been the best of the best for the past few years. Since he limits his arguements to that time frame, his points are accurate. They can also be irritating, but many of his points are factully accurate.

Again, who is incorrect? You are stating that I do not challenge him, yet I challenged him on the exact points you have.

My true colors?

If I have any, they would be the Navy and Gold from Lamar and Burnt Orange and White for Texas.

[pied]

what is SO HARD in seeing the contradiction and hippocrasy of spending three months telling every one pre-season games are meaningless and preseason and early season rankings are meaningless and teams that fly 1000s of miles for preseason games have the wrong priorities and are boneheads

..,,,,,


then after MNW and SLC game was supposedly announced, this same person had SEVEN threads on MNW-SLC and what a great matchup between intersectional teams that might be national #1 and #2 preseason


the guy did an about face BECAUSE SLC IS NOW INVOLVED

so I called him on it

WHY DOES IT BOTHER YOU???

It took you 18 minutes to post four times consecutively on this thread, and nearly nothing you talked about has to do with the SLC-MNW game being on.

The reason it bothers me, is because you appear to have some insight or at least a differnet perspective regarding HS football.

You refuse to answer questions and choose to only to attack one poster and school.

Certainly may posters have different opinions/thoughts, but you seem to be one track, and as I pointed out, you posting makes it difficult to understand and respond.

[SLCDad]

Why am I doing what I am about to do?????Be careful. It's an endless sink hole.

[pied]

We disagree on the travel part but I respect your opinion. I even posted that many fans and coaches disagree with me. No problem. Coach Dodge agrees with me, however, and it's hard to argue with his success.-I fall in the camp where it seems to be contradictory(?) at best to say that it is not good for teams to travel, but help facilitate those teams to come to DFW.

My opinion is that traveling over 1,000 miles to play in state vs. state challenge games is the wrong priority. I think it serves more as a distraction than it does to build a football program. Yeah, the kids will enjoy the trip and it will be a good memory, I agree, but that doesn't mean it helps the team.-I understand. I think the '98 Lamar team's focus might have been too much on the game in FL and not the title. in the end the team stumbled and I think it may have been one of the best shots they had at the title. It probably did not make a difference, but as a fan I wonder "what if". I have not spoken to Coach Peach to confirm those thoughts.

In another post you mentioned that other school groups travel for competitions and other events. A major difference however is that these trips are not usually paid by the district. The kids have fund raisers or pay their own way to travel. They often work for months to earn money and get ready.-That is true. It is also true that much of the cost to travel is paid bny the sponsors. I doubt much more comes out of pocket for these games than say the HEB Classic in SA. I do know the Viking Booster Club shouldered some of the cost in '98.

I also don't think that traveling 250 miles by bus to play in-state is the same thing as traveling 1,500 miles to another state. They are not equivalent in my opinion even though you have tried to equate them. I don't buy your argument here.-True, but I have also never stated that the reason my team did not need to travel out of state because I could find plenty of games within 20 miles only to play 5 hours away, like Coach Dodge did. It is not the same, but it seems to be in contrast to the other statements.

Regarding Miami Northwestern, I don't think they have their priorities straight. However, as long as they have decided to come, it will be a great game. There is much to discuss and much anticipation about this game.

I also think that many states and programs have different scheduling difficulties that Texas teams simply do not have. DLS and the big Ohio privates are some of those.

[Bordertown]

Yes and watch out for the "A+" logic.

side note: What kink of college/university puts an "A+" on the transcript? Reminds me of the movie "A Christmas Story" where the boy writes a paper on getting a Red Ryder gun and dreams of the teacher giving him an A++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.

Some how I feel like it was a dream.

[SLCDad]

I think SLCDad does have a clue about HS sports. I do think his vision can be short sighted to one team and half decade. I think he relies on computer stats too much, and makes conclusions about them.

You are right. This is why I use the stats.

On boards like this it's common for people to say "this team could beat that team" or "if that team played in my state, they could never do what they did", etc., etc. These statements are personal opinions. I prefer to use the opinions of experts who make a living evaluating high school football.

Computer polls are especially valuable in my opinion because they don't have the human bias or "group think" mentality. For example, in 2006 there was a terrific team up in Oregon (Portland Jesuit). Most national pollsters overlooked them in the rankings. Jesuit won the Oregon 6A title. BOTH national computer models had them in the national top 3 but only one human poll had then in the top 10. Another example is 2006 Lakeland. My intent is NOT to rag on Lakeland, but in all honesty, they really didn't have a national championship season in 2006. Many teams did better on the field than Lakeland. However, because Lakeland STARTED the season ranked high and the human polls have a "don't drop until you lose" mentality some humans ranked them #1. BOTH computer models had Lakeland near the bottom of the top 20. I believe the computers were right in this case.

Granted, there are flaws in computer models just like there are flaws in EVERY poll.

If you read my posts about rankings, I almost never use my personal opinion but I use as much independent data as I can to support what I post. Yeah, I'm a homer, but when it comes to rankings or schedule strength, I'm not a homer because I use independent data, not a homer opinion.

[consumerman]

Wow, your third consecutive post on this thread w/in 15 minutes.....

I think SLCDad does have a clue about HS sports. I do think his vision can be short sighted to one team and half decade. I think he relies on comuter stats too much, and makes conclusions about them.

I also think he has an easy case to make. His team has been the best of the best for the past few years. Since he limits his arguements to that time frame, his points are accurate. They can also be irritating, but many of his points are factully accurate.

Again, who is incorrect? You are stating that I do not challenge him, yet I challenged him on the exact points you have.

My true colors?

If I have any, they would be the Navy and Gold from Lamar and Burnt Orange and White for Texas.


and how do you say FOR CERTAIN SLC was the best team in the country???

who did they play on the east coast?
who did they play from the midwest?
who did they play from california?

what makes you 100% certain slc was the absolute best team in the nation in 2006?

I am very curious on how subjective ratings PROVE SLC was the best team in the country and you fall for that

[consumerman]

It took you 18 minutes to post four times consecutively on this thread, and nearly nothing you talked about has to do with the SLC-MNW game being on.

The reason it bothers me, is because you appear to have some insight or at least a differnet perspective regarding HS football.

You refuse to answer questions and choose to only to attack one poster and school.

Certainly may posters have different opinions/thoughts, but you seem to be one track, and as I pointed out, you posting makes it difficult to understand and respond.


i dont ATTACK one poster and school

I correct obvious factual mistakes and poor and faulty logical deductions.

how is that attacking?

PS I get GREAT SATISFACTION in correcting him

why is it so difficult to see the contradiction in spending three months saying nonconference games and preseason and early season rankings are meaningless, and then after a MNW-SLC game is supposedly announced the guy has SEVEN threads about preseason rankings and what a great #1 vs #2 preseason ranking game it would be

seeems to be pretty straightforward contradictory to me ( I even listed most of the thread titles)

I dont see how you miss the contradiction

[consumerman]

how is correcting the statement "that since dls started traveling they have been losing every year since" by stating that "they traveled 2500 miles in 2002 to beat an 18 time state champion and they won the national championship that year" attacking?

what part of that is an attack

and what part is a factual correction

sherlock?????????????????

[SLCDad]

stop the pissing contest now!

Post facts, starting lineups, preseason rankings, fantasy matchups, returning starters, magazine snipets...... etc. etc. but stop the pissing contest for god's sake. Post stuff on matchups that will happen in the near future, or summer lifting info, or two a days info, or something but you sound like little 9 year old girls:wallbang: .

YES, YES, YES. Exactly.

(Notice it's usually the same guy who is on one side of all of the pissing contests.)


.

[SLCDad]

Why am I doing what I am about to do?????

Good question. Pied, I think you lost your composure for a few moments.

Debate with that guy is pretty much impossible. Several posters have posted the resons why.

.

[pied]

If you read my posts about rankings, I almost never use my personal opinion but I use as much independent data as I can to support what I post. Yeah, I'm a homer, but when it comes to rankings or schedule strength, I'm not a homer because I use independent data, not a homer opinion.

Personally I don't put a lot of stock in rankings and even less so to computer polls. I think there fun to look at, but also believe some people truly think that if some news organization says team A from Illinois is ranked 7th in the Nations, they really are better than Team B from Oregon.

We debated ad nauseum last year, but I do think Texas schools get an added bump in SOS, therefore computer polls because of the Districty set up. I do think it is easier to be 10-0 at the end of the regular season in Texas than other places in the nation.

Once you get to the end, the only real players are still undefeated and then you have to rely on SOS. I thik those numbers can be inflated in Texas.

[pied]

and how do you say FOR CERTAIN SLC was the best team in the country???

who did they play on the east coast?
who did they play from the midwest?
who did they play from california?

what makes you 100% certain slc was the absolute best team in the nation in 2006?

I am very curious on how subjective ratings PROVE SLC was the best team in the country and you fall for that

I can't. I did see the 6A/5A championship in FL.

I did see a few games from Ohio, although most Ohio posters I read, did not think there was an elite National team last year.

I saw DLS/Country Canyon/St. Bonnie/Oaks Christian.

I think SLC was the best team of those I saw. I also think their resume was better than the others up for #1 last year and you could make a better case for them than Lakeland.

[SLCDad]

We debated ad nauseum last year, but I do think Texas schools get an added bump in SOS, therefore computer polls because of the Districty set up. I do think it is easier to be 10-0 at the end of the regular season in Texas than other places in the nation.

Once you get to the end, the only real players are still undefeated and then you have to rely on SOS. I thik those numbers can be inflated in Texas.

How do you believe the district system helps SOS evaluations? Just curious. It's a random alignment based on geography.

I think the top Texas teams get a bump in the SOS ratings because the Texas playoffs are so HUGE. All of the teams that survive for 4, 5 or 6 rounds are rewarded, thus helping the SOS of the teams they play. That's how it should be.

Granted in some places (the GCL in Ohio is a good example) many of the top teams are in the same league (due to scheduling necessity). It's very tough to finish undefeated in that league. On the other hand, when the top teams are in one league, it's that much easier for teams to finish undefeated in other leagues in the state. Overall it's a wash.

Several people debated this a couple of years ago. Statistics were posted that (adjusted for size) there are no more undefeated teams in Texas than the other top states. Caliornia is the exception. It's easier to go undefeated in California because they don't have a state playoff. They have a much higher percentage of undefeated teams than the other top states.

[pied]

5% of 5A schools finished 10-0
7% of 5A schools finished 9-1 (8-1 for one team)
9% of 5A schools finished 8-2

Over 20% finished with two or less losses.

[SLCDad]

5% of 5A schools finished 10-0
7% of 5A schools finished 9-1 (8-1 for one team)
9% of 5A schools finished 8-2

Over 20% finished with two or less losses.

I'm not sure what your point is.

The last time we looked at these types of numbers we found the other major football states had very similar percentages.

The only real difference we found was that California had many more teams with good records when the playoffs are included.

[consumerman]

I can't. I did see the 6A/5A championship in FL.

I did see a few games from Ohio, although most Ohio posters I read, did not think there was an elite National team last year.

I saw DLS/Country Canyon/St. Bonnie/Oaks Christian.

I think SLC was the best team of those I saw. I also think their resume was better than the others up for #1 last year and you could make a better case for them than Lakeland.

so you saw a few teams and your SUBJECTIVE OPINION qualifies that 100% for sure SLC is the best team in the country?

REALLY?????????????????????????????

[Bordertown]

I would agree that it is easier to go undefeated in a Texas district than a the GCL. No doubt. SOS and Power Rankings are relative. What is nice about them is they are without emotion. They have flaws but each week of the season after the 5th week their accuracy improves.

Each state knows where the football is weak. In Texas, it is the Rio Grande Valley. Last year the Valley turned out two undefeated teams in district - Los Fresnos and PSJA -North. Both teams played only 5A schools. They moved into the playoffs and continued to rack up wins against other Valley teams. In the end, Los Fresnos ended up at a respectable 12-1 and PSJA - North 11-1. They were one of nine 5A teams to go undefeated in district. On could argue based upon stats and records both should be ranked in the top 10 in Texas. But out of 246 teams in 5A Massey had them ranked 137 and 138 respectively. Calpreps ranked the one loss teams #104 and #135 respectively.

The human rankings are opinions that are tainted by prior years opinions and little if any 1st hand experience. One one individual can not accurately compare top 1,000 teams. I have seen national polls that have listed Texas High in the top 7 or 8 in the country in 2003. If was solely because they won Texas 4A in 2002 in a convincing manner. But in 2002 at the end of the year they were not rated in the top 20. I just do not see how a group of intelligent individuals can "see" enough games to make an independent determination. Instead it is more influenced by the media hype machines.

Because of the difficulties in developing a system to rank schools, in my opinion there are no National Champions in high school football. Each year we listen to the debates for the NCAA Div 1-A BCS bowl. At the end of the year we are still wondering if Auburn was the true National Champions. Should Boise State be the 2006 champs? That debate exists for approximate 120 teams and high school has 12,000+. The only truth is that Texas was the NCAA National Champions in 2005 led by Superman.

[pied]

so you saw a few teams and your SUBJECTIVE OPINION qualifies that 100% for sure SLC is the best team in the country?

REALLY?????????????????????????????

No, you must have missed where I said:

I can't.

I would never say 100%. I don't really care either. If some Dreadnoughts want to claim they were #1, great. Some Dragons from TX, hurray.

All I am saying is if it were the pied poll, I would rank SLC #1 last year.

[consumerman]

YES, YES, YES. Exactly.

(Notice it's usually the same guy who is on one side of all of the pissing contests.)


.

all this from a redneck who calls everyone jerks, idiots and now his new term boneheads

I wish I was 1% as enlightened as this creep

[consumerman]

No, you must have missed where I said:



I would never say 100%. I don't really care either. If some Dreadnoughts want to claim they were #1, great. Some Dragons from TX, hurray.

All I am saying is if it were the pied poll, I would rank SLC #1 last year.

there are 300 million people in USA and I bet there is only 1 (yourself) who cares what your poll is

[SLCDad]

The only truth is that Texas was the NCAA National Champions in 2005 led by Superman.

Yep.

One more truth. SLC has been the best program in the nation over the last 5 years. It's really hard to make a case for anybody else.

[consumerman]

how is correcting the statement "that since dls started traveling they have been losing every year since" by stating that "they traveled 2500 miles in 2002 to beat an 18 time state champion and they won the national championship that year" attacking?

what part of that is an attack

and what part is a factual correction

sherlock?????????????????


I guess you are not even going to attempt to answer this one

when you are wrong, just ignore and start a new attack right?

[pied]

there are 300 million people in USA and I bet there is only 1 (yourself) who cares what your poll is

True, except I would add yourself since you seem to have asked me about it. So we will make it two.

No one would like my poll anyway. To steal an idea from concha, I would prbably have few definitive "rankings", but several "groupings" of teams.

[consumerman]

Yep.

One more truth. SLC has been the best program in the nation over the last 5 years. It's really hard to make a case for anybody else.

SLC has NEVER won the top division championship (Division 5 - large school) until 2006 and even then they fluked into a win in R2 because the opposing coach choked a way a lead with a horrible fake punt call

They have never won the Texas large school division prior to 2006

and that is not a SUBJECTIVE opinion it is an OBJECTIVE FACT

[consumerman]

SLC has NEVER won the top division championship (Division 5 - large school) until 2006 and even then they fluked into a win in R2 because the opposing coach choked a way a lead with a horrible fake punt call

They have never won the Texas large school division prior to 2006

and those superficially impressive 6 playoff rounds become less impressive when the division is watered down with many 3-7 and 4-6 playoff teams and then split into two divisions

[SLCDad]

Consumerman, you missed the point. If you don't think SLC has had the best program in the country over the last 5 years, WHO DO YOU THINK IT IS?

Name a team that has been better!!


(Consumerman, this is an example of why several posters have questioned your logic and debating skills. If you don't think SLC has had the best program over the last 5 years state your case. Nobody said SLC was perfect, which you obviously agree with. I DID SAY that SLC has the best program in the country. Can you dispute that? Don't change the subject.)

[consumerman]

Consumerman, you missed the point. If you don't think SLC has had the best program in the country over the last 5 years, WHO DO YOU THINK IT IS?

Name a team that has been better!!



which year (other than the fluke ridden 2006 playoffs) that SLC was the top school in the top division in Texas?


You can not objectively say SLC was the best team in Texas in any year besides 2006 (congrats on the stupidest fake punt strategy in history)
because they did not play in the top division (large school) playoffs

that is non-debatable

[pied]

SLC has NEVER won the top division championship (Division 5 - large school) until 2006 and even then they fluked into a win in R2 because the opposing coach choked a way a lead with a horrible fake punt call

They have never won the Texas large school division prior to 2006

and that is not a SUBJECTIVE opinion it is an OBJECTIVE FACT

As it is that DLS has played in one state championship game, and lost it.

Any statement that DLS was ever the best team in California is a SUBJECTIVE OPINION not and OBJECTIVE FACT.

[consumerman]

As it is that DLS has played in one state championship game, and lost it.

Any statement that DLS was ever the best team in California is a SUBJECTIVE OPINION not and OBJECTIVE FACT.

I have ALWAYS AGREED WITH THAT

you are finally getting it

PS it was not a state championship game, it was a bowl game, dozens of teams were considered to play and they could all make a claim to being qualified. There was no elimination games and so a state championship game is probably innapropriate

[consumerman]

Consumerman, you missed the point. If you don't think SLC has had the best program in the country over the last 5 years, WHO DO YOU THINK IT IS?

Name a team that has been better!!


(Consumerman, this is an example of why several posters have questioned your logic and debating skills. If you don't think SLC has had the best program over the last 5 years state your case. Nobody said SLC was perfect, which you obviously agree with. I DID SAY that SLC has the best program in the country. Can you dispute that? Don't change the subject.)


they have an impresive record but based on subjective opinions (since SLC does not play any quality out of state temas) other teams and programs have been better, Have you heard of the team with a current 104 game winning streak?

Unless those 2 played head to head you can not objectively say one team is better than the other, although the other team has no losses over the last 5 years and SLC has 1 plus a fluke win

[consumerman]

As it is that DLS has played in one state championship game, and lost it.

Any statement that DLS was ever the best team in California is a SUBJECTIVE OPINION not and OBJECTIVE FACT.


to repeat (ad nauseam) any resemblance the 2006 team had to streak teams was very weak
'
the 2006 teams had 1 maybe D1 recruit

no Maurice Drew.s Derek Landri's Matt Gutierrez's, DJ Williams, Demertius Williams

a loss by the 2006 team (that went 13-1 and was ranked #1 for 3 months) does not diminish what previous DLS teams accomplished

that is the mistake most people on this board are making

[pied]

a loss by the 2006 team (that went 13-1 and was ranked #1 for 3 months) does not diminish what previous DLS teams accomplished


I think you are correct, but on thing no DLS team has accomplished is being the "OBJECTIVE" #1 team in California.

Another accurate statement is that they are winless in every chance they had to prove objectively that they are CA's best.

[SLCDad]

they have an impresive record but based on subjective opinions (since SLC does not play any quality out of state temas) other teams and programs have been better, Have you heard of the team with a current 104 game winning streak?

Unless those 2 played head to head you can not objectively say one team is better than the other, although the other team has no losses over the last 5 years and SLC has 1 plus a fluke win

So . . . you are saying that Independence Charlotte has had a better team over the last 5 years than SLC? Correct?

Is that what you believe?

[consumerman]

I think you are correct, but on thing no DLS team has accomplished is being the "OBJECTIVE" #1 team in California.

Another accurate statement is that they are winless in every chance they had to prove objectively that they are CA's best.


Sherlock

1) there is not 1 team who can ever objectively claim to be the best in any year and that includes any DLS team (or any SLC team as the division is split in 2)

2) DLS laid an egg in the game against Canyon, congrats to Canyon, a win would still not have PROVED anything, other than they beat Canyon on that specific day, other teams thought they were more deserving to play than either Canyon or DLS

you can gloat all you want on their loss

it is your right to do so

[SLCDad]

Sherlock

1) there is not 1 team who can ever objectively claim to be the best in any year and that includes any DLS team (or any SLC team as the division is split in 2)

2) DLS laid an egg in the game against Canyon, congrats to Canyon, a win would still not have PROVED anything, other than they beat Canyon on that specific day, other teams thought they were more deserving to play than either Canyon or DLS

you can gloat all you want on their loss

it is your right to do so

Sheesh. We all know that most of the stuff we talk about is opinion. That goes without saying (except in your case).

As for the gloating, it's been fun. :D :D

[pied]

Sherlock

1) there is not 1 team who can ever objectively claim to be the best in any year and that includes any DLS team (or any SLC team as the division is split in 2)

2) DLS laid an egg in the game against Canyon, congrats to Canyon, a win would still not have PROVED anything, other than they beat Canyon on that specific day, other teams thought they were more deserving to play than either Canyon or DLS

you can gloat all you want on their loss

it is your right to do so


Then why the hang up w/SLC winning the D2 title instead of the D1?

Other than that, I agree. I don't gloat about that game. The things that stick out to me, were the Canyon coach's silly decision to keep trying to pass in the second half, when it was obvious to EVERYONE that the QB was rattled. The amazing RB for Canyon, and the fact that Lad chose not to run, in my opinion, his best RB at the end of the game.

[consumerman]

Then why the hang up w/SLC winning the D2 title instead of the D1?

Other than that, I agree. I don't gloat about that game. The things that stick out to me, were the Canyon coach's silly decision to keep trying to pass in the second half, when it was obvious to EVERYONE that the QB was rattled. The amazing RB for Canyon, and the fact that Lad chose not to run, in my opinion, his best RB at the end of the game.

I vaguely remember some items

I taped the game as I was giving my wife a bday party

since they lost there was no keen desire to watch the game intently

I thought these things stood out to me (I have been watching DLS for over 20 years)

1) the first drive, DLS moved deep into Canyon country. They had a wrong pattern run on third and 5 (so I heard, it was not a first string receiver.. if you know how DLS sends in their plays, they alternate receivers every play). Even with 4th and 5, DLS had been known to go for it in big games (1998 Mater Dei, 4th and 6, screene pass for TD on first drive; 2001 vs, LB Poly,
4th and long from the 29, TD pass to Maurice Drew put them up 14-3). This time they went for a FG, it was blocked I think.

2) Canyon scored three TD in first half, two of the plays were great plays, the first TD on a tipped pass. More often this results in an INC or sometimes a pick, htis was a TD. Great play for Canyon. Another drive the QB is totally about to be sacked, but makes a great play, barely dodges the sack, stands up and throws a great TD pass.

so its 20-7 at half.

3) DLS scores to open the second half, misses the XP

Missed FG, Missed XP, this is not the DLS I know

4) the drive late in the game with the score 20-13 when they had a third and 1 on the Canyon 5, 99 times out of 100 this is a TD drive. They try a weak QB sneak on third and 1 and it gets stuffed. (In most instances a dive or option will get the first or even the TD). They try a quick pitch on 4th and 1, not an option pitch (their specialty). Canyon is all over it.

DLS gets deflated and Canyon scores the icing TD on the following drive

Canyon won and was the better team that day, despite the great perfomance by the DLS pass defense in the second half

it was not the typical DLS performance (as noted above)

[consumerman]

Then why the hang up w/SLC winning the D2 title instead of the D1?

Other than that, I agree. I don't gloat about that game. The things that stick out to me, were the Canyon coach's silly decision to keep trying to pass in the second half, when it was obvious to EVERYONE that the QB was rattled. The amazing RB for Canyon, and the fact that Lad chose not to run, in my opinion, his best RB at the end of the game.

it is just an objective comment that SLC has never won the large school bracket until 2006

[SLCDad]

I don't gloat about that game.

I do. Just a little.

[Bordertown]

True, except I would add yourself since you seem to have asked me about it. So we will make it two.

No one would like my poll anyway. To steal an idea from concha, I would prbably have few definitive "rankings", but several "groupings" of teams.

Pied, I agree with the Groupee concept. I think beyond grouping teams in a stratus, it is wasted energy.

[SLCDad]

it is just an objective comment that SLC has never won the large school bracket until 2006

What's so ironic about this is that SLC played better schools in the 2004 and 2005 playoffs in 5A D2 than they did in 2006 in 5A D1.

[consumerman]

What's so ironic about this is that SLC played better schools in the 2004 and 2005 playoffs in 5A D2 than they did in 2006 in 5A D1.

yes that is what subjective opinions have always said and may well be true

but objectively, they never won the large school until 2006 and that is objective

[Bordertown]

As it is that DLS has played in one state championship game, and lost it.

Any statement that DLS was ever the best team in California is a SUBJECTIVE OPINION not and OBJECTIVE FACT.

And that wasn't even a State Championship Game - it was a "Bowl" game. Not much different from the Herbie.

[SLCDad]

yes that is what subjective opinions have always said and may well be true

but objectively, they never won the large school until 2006 and that is objective

Your point?

You are the person saying Independence Charlotte has the best program in the country. Go a little deeper. Take a look at who THEY have played.

[consumerman]

Your point?

You are the person saying Independence Charlotte has the best program in the country. Go a little deeper. Take a look at who THEY have played.

no dont try dragging me into that garbage

SLC has been impressive

they have not beaten a quality out of state team

objectively, you can not say they are the best team in the country over the last 5 years they have a loss Independence doesnt

No SOS garbage PLEASE

(e.g/ SLC has a great SOS becuz they played the #52 team in the country who was only 10-4, but in circular reasoning, they deserve to be #52 because two of their losses were against #1 SLC)

[pied]

I4) the drive late in the game with the score 20-13 when they had a third and 1 on the Canyon 5, 99 times out of 100 this is a TD drive. They try a weak QB sneak on third and 1 and it gets stuffed. (In most instances a dive or option will get the first or even the TD). They try a quick pitch on 4th and 1, not an option pitch (their specialty). Canyon is all over it.

That was one of the things that sticks out to me. Correct me if I ma wrong, but wasn't the guy who got the pitch not a starter?

To me, those were bad calls. Very very bad considering the situation.

I do not like pitching the ball 3-4 yards backwards in short yardage situations.

[consumerman]

That was one of the things that sticks out to me. Correct me if I ma wrong, but wasn't the guy who got the pitch not a starter?

To me, those were bad calls. Very very bad considering the situation.

I do not like pitching the ball 3-4 yards backwards in short yardage situations.

they had three very good running backs

the FB (Maupin) did not run with the power and effectiveness against against Canyon that he did against say Mission Viejo

the HB was great but not a power runner

the thrid RB (Nastor) was a speedy quick guy (he had a KO return TD against Elder).. I did not like either the thrid down or 4th down calls, the third down was more crucial, they just tried a half---- QB sneak and were stuffed

[SLCDad]

no dont try dragging me into that garbage

SLC has been impressive

they have not beaten a quality out of state team

objectively, you can not say they are the best team in the country over the last 5 years they have a loss Independence doesnt

No SOS garbage PLEASE


No SOS "garbage"? Are you kidding?

That is EXACTLY what you need to look at. Are you suggesting that W-L is the ONLY factor?

If you don't look at SOS then there are lots of 1A and 2A and even 9-man teams that would be considered among the top teams in the nation.


If you look at SOS, Independence Charlotte has a schedule that is TWO TOUCHDOWNS PER GAME weaker than SLC's schedule. We all admit that the models aren't perfect, but two touchdowns is HUGE and is much greater than any flaw in the model.

[consumerman]

We all admit that the models aren't perfect



... and they have been proven to be biased to texas teams

[SLCDad]

We all admit that the models aren't perfect



... and they have been proven to be biased to texas teamsOnly in YOUR mind.

[consumerman]

Only in YOUR mind.

and it will always stay that way

You can use them as a proof source, I reject it

[Bordertown]

I don't think there is anything in the formula which is biased to Texas teams. I think Massey and Freeman present their mathmatical models for public review. Honestly, I did not get a math degree, so it is above me. Maybe a doctorate in math could explain the bias. I do know the Massey model is used by the NCAA to determine the BCS championship series. I am sure the math departments at all 120+ D-1A schools have examined the logic and it is still one of the approved computer models.

The only thing I think you could argue is a team like SLC which plays 16 games may be more accurate or rates a stronger schedule than a team like DLS that plays only 13 in a normal year (I suspect 2007 will be a normal year). But logically if a team makes it to a 16th game, they have probably played a tougher schedule than one that plays 13. I don't think you will find many "pretenders" after the 2nd round of the Texas Playoffs (any classification, any division). Every state or section has "pretenders" in their playoff brackets. So it still takes 3 or 4 quality wins to win state in Texas. That will improve your strength of schedule.

[consumerman]

I don't think there is anything in the formula which is biased to Texas teams. I think Massey and Freeman present their mathmatical models for public review. Honestly, I did not get a math degree, so it is above me. Maybe a doctorate in math could explain the bias. I do know the Massey model is used by the NCAA to determine the BCS championship series. I am sure the math departments at all 120+ D-1A schools have examined the logic and it is still one of the approved computer models.

The only thing I think you could argue is a team like SLC which plays 16 games may be more accurate or rates a stronger schedule than a team like DLS that plays only 13 in a normal year (I suspect 2007 will be a normal year). But logically if a team makes it to a 16th game, they have probably played a tougher schedule than one that plays 13. I don't think you will find many "pretenders" after the 2nd round of the Texas Playoffs (any classification, any division). Every state or section has "pretenders" in their playoff brackets. So it still takes 3 or 4 quality wins to win state in Texas. That will improve your strength of schedule.


at one point 25 of the strongest 51 sos were supposedly from Texas

that is just ridiculous and in no way can be true\

examples (some of you get tired of me bringing them up over and over but the SOS is a constant trumpet from texas backers so I need to bring up the same faults) include a 10-4 team that is rated the 52nd best team in the country, largely on a sos and a 7-5 team that was outscored and beaten by a very weak team rated in the top 300 also mainly based on sos

it is my assertion that there are 300 teams in california in 2006 better than this 7-5 piece of garbage.

[SLCDad]

at one point 25 of the strongest 51 sos were supposedly from Texas

that is just ridiculous and in no way can be true\

examples (some of you get tired of me bringing them up over and over but the SOS is a constant trumpet from texas backers so I need to bring up the same faults) include a 10-4 team that is rated the 52nd best team in the country, largely on a sos and a 7-5 team that was outscored and beaten by a very weak team rated in the top 300 also mainly based on sos.

Your problem is that you ONLY look at the W-L record. Generally speaking what you is say is true in most cases, however, there are instances when VERY, VERY good teams have losses.

That 10-4 team you mention played a schedule that is tougher than ANY in California, Texas or Florida. Ohio is the ONLY state that has a couple of teams that played a harder average schedule (but that 10-4 team played more games by far). That 10-4 team had 2 losses against the #1 team in the country and 1 loss against the #5 team.

That is why the polls put them in the top 50. The computer models are right.

[consumerman]

Your problem is that you ONLY look at the W-L record. Generally speaking what you is say is true in most cases, however, there are instances when VERY, VERY good teams have losses.

That 10-4 team you mention played a schedule that is tougher than ANY in California, Texas or Florida. Ohio is the ONLY state that has a couple of teams that played a harder average schedule (but that 10-4 team played more games by far). That 10-4 team had 2 losses against the #1 team in the country and 1 loss against the #5 team.

That is why the polls put them in the top 50. The computer models are right.

this is the circular reasoning I am talking about

1)slc is #1 because of the tough schedule they play as evidenced by the games against the 52nd rated team in the country

2) that team, although a pedestrian 10-4, is actually a top 50 team because two of their losses against the #1 team

that is the very essence of circular reasoning

and it doesnt fool me

[consumerman]

if slc played some quality teams from outside texas then it would be a better gauge

[consumerman]

this so-called top 50 team, which you have used forever to tout SLC's tough schedule lost four games (FOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

two of those losses were by 56-7 and 33-7 scores, hardly impressive against anybody

they also lost to a team that finished 3-7 and at one point was 1-7, that is a loss which is unexplainable for a supposedly top 50 team


that is not a top 50 team

that is not a top 250 team

and with that slc sos which you tout falls like a house of cards

____________________________

that includes a 7-5 team THAT WAS OUTSCORED and somehow gets credited with a top 300 school

this team ALSO LOST to one of those 3-7 Texas powerhouses LMAO

again improving slc's so called strength of schedule

________________________

that is clear evidence why the sos formulas you use and quote are not valid

[Bordertown]

Last I checked Evangel was an out of state school. Matter of fact, they are so good the Herbie was did not want them beating up an Ohio team. At the time they played SLC they had a signed contract to play in the 2007 Herbie. And the Herbie only invites quality teams like DLS.

Just kidding Ohio, but I am steamed at the Herbie promoter.

[consumerman]

Last I checked Evangel was an out of state school. Matter of fact, they are so good the Herbie was did not want them beating up an Ohio team. At the time they played SLC they had a signed contract to play in the 2007 Herbie. And the Herbie only invites quality teams like DLS.

Just kidding Ohio, but I am steamed at the Herbie promoter.

are u counting evangel as a quality opponent?

really?

[Bordertown]

You do include them often in your list of out of state games DLS has played? Question was Elder a "quality" opponent?

Evangel had the following get college scholarships:
Jeremy Little - New Mexico State
Derrick Williams - Bowling Green
Jamarr Thompson - Troy
Pat Chitman - Northwest Oklahoma University
Reicho Lynch - Northwest Oklahoma University

Prospects 2008 Rivals
Roderick Banks - WR
Zack Summage - LB
Quinn Giles - CB

I would say that is quality when you have at least 8 players that can play at the next level and 5 in prior senior class. They lost to Lufkin 24-14 and were blown out by SLC. Only two losses and were state champions (albiet in a lower league).

[SLCDad]

and it doesnt fool me

Yeah, we know. YOU are right and the guys who do this stuff for a living are wrong.

If you say so. Sheesh.


Who is the one fooled here?

[consumerman]

Yeah, we know. YOU are right and the guys who do this stuff for a living are wrong.

If you say so. Sheesh.


Who is the one fooled here?

a team with 4 LOSSES including a loss to a 3-7 team (at one point 1-7) is NOT a national top 50 team

and never will be

[Bordertown]

I did not find any college signees for DLS in 2007 on Rivals (I'm sure there may be a couple). Scout has a 4.60 CB to Weber State.

While I was looking at the 2007 graduating class Rivals had listed, I was wishing Texas High had played them. They had WR running 4.7 and cornerbacks and safeties running 4.65. I was envisioning these guys trying to stop the Texas High passing attack.

Was DLS's lack of team speed its undoing in the California Bowl?

[Chicago]

From what I could see, both lines got destroyed. On offense, the 3rd-and-inches while down 20-13 was tough, but it was not an isolated event. On defense, the Canyon Country RB continually got across the LOS quickly and relatively easily.

And the DLS defense left a lot of guys open (but did not really get beaten deep). The long TD (if I remember correctly) had nothing to do with DLS being beaten deep. The Canyon Country quarterback hit his own guys in the first half, and hit DLS's guys in the second half.

DLS looked very fast against Elder, and I don't think they looked any slower against Canyon Country.

[JazzyJeff]

I did not find any college signees for DLS in 2007 on Rivals (I'm sure there may be a couple). Scout has a 4.60 CB to Weber State.

While I was looking at the 2007 graduating class Rivals had listed, I was wishing Texas High had played them. They had WR running 4.7 and cornerbacks and safeties running 4.65. I was envisioning these guys trying to stop the Texas High passing attack.

Was DLS's lack of team speed its undoing in the California Bowl?

Didn't we put this notion to bed when St. X took on Lakeland?

College recruits + 40 times ≠ Automatic Win

If it did, Lakeland wouldn't have needed OT. ----, the game would have been over at halftime.

[Bordertown]

The issue is Evangel a "quality team", not do athletes equal an automatic win. In my research I was surprised to see a 4.70 - 40 wr and 4.65 CBs for DLS.

Personally I think Texas High vs DLS would have been an entertaining game. Texas High would have had problems stopping DLS running attack and DLS would have had trouble with Texas High's passing game. I am not sure who would have won.

[RidgePride]

The issue is Evangel a "quality team", not do athletes equal an automatic win. In my research I was surprised to see a 4.70 - 40 wr and 4.65 CBs for DLS.

Personally I think Texas High vs DLS would have been an entertaining game. Texas High would have had problems stopping DLS running attack and DLS would have had trouble with Texas High's passing game. I am not sure who would have won.

4.7 is standard for high school football. The average decent athlete is about that speed.
4.65 is fast. I remember hearing that the starting safety at SLC worked really hard to get is forty down to a 4.7 a few years back. 4.5's and 4.4's is considered great speed. Not all good teams have that. SLC may have 3 guys on their team that can run a 4.6

[Bordertown]

Just use to the East Texas speed. Texas High had probably 3 kids sub 4.6 and another 3 that were sub 4.70. The linebackers probably all ran 4.70 or better. I doubt there was a starter on defense that could not break 5.0. It was smallish in size but built on speed.

[SLCDad]

Didn't we put this notion to bed when St. X took on Lakeland?

College recruits + 40 times ≠ Automatic Win

If it did, Lakeland wouldn't have needed OT. ----, the game would have been over at halftime.

Both StX and Lakeland were pretenders last year. StX got beat by Colerain who got beat themselves by Davidson. Lakeland won all of their games but they struggled 3-4 times against only above average teams.

(When I say pretenders, I mean StX clearly wasn't an elite Ohio team and Lakeland wasn't the best team in Florida.)

[SLCDad]

St. X was and is an elite ohio team.

They have 7-11 D1 recruits this year..... those guys were playing last year along with the seniors from last year who were almost as good.

The poblem is Region 4 is stacked with 4 or so ohio elite teams and regions 1,2, and 3 have 3,3, and 1 each year.

Yeah, I agree. The point I was trying to make was that StX wasn't the best in Ohio last year as all of the rankings put them early in the year. They lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs to Colerain and then Colerain themselves got beat. For most of the year the polls said StX was the best in Ohio in 2006 but it turned out they were not. That is what I meant.

[WoodyHayes]

I do. Just a little. I have enjoyed reading the posts on this thread. For purposes of making me laugh harder at the banter going on, could you please start throwing in the "HEE - HEE'S" again.
Also start to post links to pictures, this drives certain people crazy. keep up the good work.

[yallerjacket]

SLCDad, has a site been determined yet for this game?

[SLCDad]

SLCDad, has a site been determined yet for this game?

I haven't seen any formal announcement yet.

A poster on another board had spoken to the SLC coach a couple of weeks ago. The coach said the game was still "on" and that he was 95% certain the location was SMU's Ford Stadium.

[Chicago]

That would be a rough start to his SLC head coaching career if he showed up at the wrong stadium for the game.

[JazzyJeff]

Both StX and Lakeland were pretenders last year. StX got beat by Colerain who got beat themselves by Davidson. Lakeland won all of their games but they struggled 3-4 times against only above average teams.

(When I say pretenders, I mean StX clearly wasn't an elite Ohio team and Lakeland wasn't the best team in Florida.)

You've missed the point, I was referring to the amount of senior recruits/talent of St. X vs. that of Lakeland, not the final national rankings of either team.

It was in response to Bordertown being shocked... SHOCKED!... to see a WR so slow because apparently, WRs and CBs in East Texas are all running 4.4 - 4.5 40 times.

[Bordertown]

Few 4.4s but plenty of 4.5s. & 4.55s. I know times get hyped by the coaches a tenth at most schools. 4.7 at WR and CB seem slow for top teams. I do not doubt 4.7 is an average when you look at all teams. I would expect teams at the top of the heap to have good speed at the skilled offensives and defensive backs.

Speed isn't everything, but it sure is hard to catch from behind.

[FormerWildcat]

The coach said the game was still "on" and that he was 95% certain the location was SMU's Ford Stadium.
I think Ford Stadium is fantastic. I wish Ohio's MAC schools had built stadiums like that. That is almost the perfect small DI college stadium.

[HDvHS FAN]

who did they play on the east coast?
who did they play from the midwest?
who did they play from california?




wtf, you skipped half the country you dummmas?