What state has the Best High School Football?

[MikeStew]

What state has the Best High School Football?

[MikeStew]

I say Ohio because Massillon and Mckinley are known nationwaide and also we have great teams down south ohio and also nobody can forgeet about St X. Granit texas, Florida, and Calafornia all have teams that are knowqn nationaly i guess my vote kinda was persauded by the history of Massillon Mck

[DLSfanNW]

Per Capita Ohio would probably take it.

[psax889906]

I was a homer and chose Ohio although I feel the other states have more talent. I think DLSfan brings up a good point. With Ohio being the smallest (not sure about Florida) of the 4 they still have amazing competition year in and year out.

[psax889906]

and you spelled "California" wrong... :Ohno: :Ohno: :Ohno:

[pied]

and you spelt "California" wrong... :Ohno: :Ohno: :Ohno:

also "granted". Granit?????

[JazzyJeff]

and you spelt "California" wrong... :Ohno: :Ohno: :Ohno:

"Spelt?"

Seriously?

[yallerjacket]

and you spelt "California" wrong... :Ohno: :Ohno: :Ohno:

There were at least seven spelling errors in that post. You only caught California? Then you said "spelt"?

[MikeStew]

sorry about the spelling errors. How cool would it be if their was enough funding and time to actually have a national championship tourny for the whole nation the winner of each state playing. I know its imposible but how cool would that be

[NorrisHopper30]

Shouldn't Georgia be on this list, ESPN had them higher than ohio in high school football :rolleyes:

[Bordertown]

Hard question to answer. What are we talking about when we define the best high school football? Are you talking about the top elite teams in a state? Are you talking about the quality from top to bottom? Are you saying you are only as good as lower ranked teams (measured by similiar enrollment)? Are you talking about the product produced for the next level of competition? Are you talking about fan support on an average Friday night at a game featuring a couple of 5-5 teams?

Considering all the above, I would have to say - Texas followed by Ohio, Florida and California. My main reason for downgrading California is my perception (which may be incorrect) of the last question.

[DLSfanNW]

This just in...and in an upset

http://www.usafootball.com/articles/19-press-box/95-featured-articles/401-mississippi-tabbed-as-best-football-state.php

[Bordertown]

Kansas is in the top 10 and ahead of Florida!!! I think Wharton School of Business just dropped in national ranking with that research. lol

[DLSfanNW]

Kansas is in the top 10 and ahead of Florida!!! I think Wharton School of Business just dropped in national ranking with that research. lol

Hey numbers don't lie

[psax889906]

haha, so I admit using short hand spelt was lazy of myself... but did you guys know 'spelt' is a crop? :angel: Anyhow... you guys must be seeing things cause it obviously says 'spelled'... :angel:

[psax889906]

There were at least seven spelling errors in that post. You only caught California? Then you said "spelt"?

I was looking at the poll, not the post... you can edit posts, you can edit the polls, I found this out the hard way once... :dang:

I actually proposed the national title idea on another thread and they destroyed me about it. Yes, it's a crazy idea that will never come to fruition; however, it would be really cool if they did it... ;)

[Cincy guy]

We all our bais for our on State in someway , but after the Herbie seeing Lakeland , Texas High , DeLasalle. Cali , TX, OH , FLA all play some damn good ball we could argue a entrie lifetime about this. But I will say after the Big 4 PA has some great teams to. This is getting old. The only major difference is the fans in Texas and Ohio and the love for the game that none of the other the other States cant compete with. Just look at Big cities in Ohio and Texas like Cincinnati and Dallas & Fort Worth Area. In these 2 big towns poeple come out on Friday or Saturday night just like a small town its hard to find that kind of passion elsewhere. Thats just my opinion but I pretty much respect everybody.

[Sykotyk]

CA: 36,132,147
TX: 22,859,968
FL: 17,789,864
OH: 11,464,042

With that said, it's 'expected' that CA, TX, and FL should have proportionately larger or better 'everything' than Ohio. The question is, do they? CA is not 3x better than Ohio, at any aspect, I feel. So Ohio would be better. Is Florida, at any criteria, 1.5x better? I don't think so. Is Texas 2x as good at top teams, more/better players, dynasties, importance, playoffs, etc? ... 2x, maybe yes, maybe no.

In the end, based on that, I'd have to figure OH/TX are about tied, but in sheer numbers Texas wins because Texas is twice the size. If you were to scale down Texas to Ohio's size in population, Ohio and Texas are on about par.

Sykotyk

[Bordertown]

I would submit that Ohio has more "dynasties" than Texas. The schools at the top of the heap in Texas change frequently as new schools are created, the neighbor changes, coaching changes, etc... I think that is the nature of a public school system. The names at the top change in Texas, but it is the same names in Ohio.

In terms of players produced Texas turns out probably 3X the Division I players as Ohio. Honestly one of the reasons that occurs is Texas plays NCAA rules in high school. It is easier to project the players in the next level - especially the lineman.

[Stizostedion]

haha, so I admit using short hand spelt was lazy of myself... but did you guys know 'spelt' is a crop? :angel: Anyhow... you guys must be seeing things cause it obviously says 'spelled'... :angel:

Spelt makes great pizza crust. Oh, and great bread, too. There's a bakery in Berlin, Ohio that makes spelt bread; The Berlin Natural Bakery. On the subject of great football, some folks might make an argument for Pennsylvania.

[RidgePride]

CA: 36,132,147
TX: 22,859,968
FL: 17,789,864
OH: 11,464,042

With that said, it's 'expected' that CA, TX, and FL should have proportionately larger or better 'everything' than Ohio. The question is, do they? CA is not 3x better than Ohio, at any aspect, I feel. So Ohio would be better. Is Florida, at any criteria, 1.5x better? I don't think so. Is Texas 2x as good at top teams, more/better players, dynasties, importance, playoffs, etc? ... 2x, maybe yes, maybe no.

In the end, based on that, I'd have to figure OH/TX are about tied, but in sheer numbers Texas wins because Texas is twice the size. If you were to scale down Texas to Ohio's size in population, Ohio and Texas are on about par.

Sykotyk

I can respect that opinion. However I do not think if you scale TX down, OH/TX would be equal.

TX just takes High school football much more seriously than any other State.

TX 5A is run like a college program.
The head coaches do not teach a class. They focus 100% on football year round. They are hired to win football games period. Lose and you are fired along with your Offensive and Defensive coordinators and possibly your whole staff.

[hoopman]

I'm thinking that Ohio football has to rank right up there with the best of the best:Party:

[ExMS1851]

i believe that you could take a football team made up of ohio, michigan, and penn go around and for the most part have a dominating team over all of the US.

[fish82]

I'd cast a write in vote for Vermont.

[NorrisHopper30]

I can respect that opinion. However I do not think if you scale TX down, OH/TX would be equal.

TX just takes High school football much more seriously than any other State.

TX 5A is run like a college program.
The head coaches do not teach a class. They focus 100% on football year round. They are hired to win football games period. Lose and you are fired along with your Offensive and Defensive coordinators and possibly your whole staff.
High school football is pretty serious here.

[murphy13]

isnt massilllons new facility supposed to rival most d1 facilitys?

[catguy86]

Ohio brings the most passion to the table as well... Only in Ohio and Texas is football truly a "religion"

all of these schools in Ohio have won a national championship-
-Cleveland St. Ignatius
- Massillon
- Cincinnatti Moeller
- Canton McKinley

and Cincinnatti St. Xavier is known nationwide as well...

and no state besides Ohio has a high school football game that shows up on the betting lines in Vegas (Massillon vs. Canton McKinley)

[RidgePride]

High school football is pretty serious here.

I believe you, and I am not discrediting Ohio ball one bit.
However, if you look at it objectively on what TX does compared to the other 49 states, I do not think it can be disputed that Ohio is 2nd when it comes to high school football craze.

TX allocates more resources to High school football - And that all comes from the community.

-indoor practice facilities
-state of the art stadiums
-Grass fields are practically obsolete - Everyone has field turf.
-State of the art video equipment for scouting. Win - Win - Win


The reason TX can afford high priced ridiculous stadiums is because of community support.
The reason the High school head coaches make from 65,000 to 110,000 and do not teach a class is because of community support and the absolute demand for a winner. The community pays for the Stadiums as well as coaches salaries.

It's VERY SIMPLE - The Demand for a great high school team is there, so resources (supplies) are spent to ensure that.

When the TX High school playoffs comes around - if your team makes it - it is absolute hysteria in that community.

[Bordertown]

Having attended the Herbie to watch Texas High I was surprised by the turnout at Nippert Stadium. At half time of the Texas High/Findlay gave I would estimate there were less than 1500 in the stands (I am being generous) for the later game with Colerain (hometown team), I would be surprised if there were 5,000.

For all the hype, the attendence was pathetic. When Texas High played in the East Texas Classic several weeks earlier, there were probably 10,000 in attendence (granted the schools playing were within 130 miles of the stadium). But then again Findlay was about 155 miles from the stadium and they did not travel.

[catguy86]

Findlay is no where near Cincinatti?

[WoodyHayes]

I have to echo Ridges comments. Almost every team has a great field and facilities. Not just 10 or so teams.
I will say it again, even though Texas has more D-1 kids they are spread out over more teams than a smaller state. Take away the very special teams (04 Colerain, SLC) and I really believe that the states stack up pretty good. I do believe as a whole our smaller divisions play better (Although Mooney fans would disagree, but Mooney is no ordinary team)
People talk about the pressure put on coaches at say, Massillon and Eds and I chuckle because it is like that at every school down here. Lose and you have to face the whole town. It can get real ugly, even in small towns.

[Bordertown]

Findlay is no where near Cincinatti?

It's Exit 156 on I-75. It's a 2.5 hour drive. I doubt 750 fans made the trip. It was a historic moment for the Findlay program, which I would have expected a larger turnout for the game. If the Herbie was in Texas Stadium, I am comfortable in saying 4,000+ would have traveled 185 miles from Texarkana for the game.

Interesting, as we discuss which state has the best football - whose fans will travel? I take the comment above as fans will not travel to follow their teams.

Texas High's closest district game is 60 miles away. 3 of its opponents are 90 miles away and 1 is 120 miles away. On a Friday night, Texas High probably had 2,000+ travel the 120 miles to play a winless team in district.

[WrongPerson]

I believe you, and I am not discrediting Ohio ball one bit.
However, if you look at it objectively on what TX does compared to the other 49 states, I do not think it can be disputed that Ohio is 2nd when it comes to high school football craze.

TX allocates more resources to High school football - And that all comes from the community.

-indoor practice facilities
-state of the art stadiums
-Grass fields are practically obsolete - Everyone has field turf.
-State of the art video equipment for scouting. Win - Win - Win


The reason TX can afford high priced ridiculous stadiums is because of community support.
The reason the High school head coaches make from 65,000 to 110,000 and do not teach a class is because of community support and the absolute demand for a winner. The community pays for the Stadiums as well as coaches salaries.

It's VERY SIMPLE - The Demand for a great high school team is there, so resources (supplies) are spent to ensure that.

When the TX High school playoffs comes around - if your team makes it - it is absolute hysteria in that community.

I've been a part of both Ohio and Texas high school football, and although Texas does get the nod with the resources, going to an actual game seems kinda...bleh. Reminds me of a pro basketball game (although i've only been to one basketball game), where most people sit on their hands for most of the game and will clap after a play. The students just walk around and talk, more of a social event than a sporting one.

The atmosphere just doenst seem to be existant, which is a shame because Texas high school football is exciting, very high scoring and very fast. There are a lot of people at these games...but nothing really seems to happen.

The most exciting game I've seen in Texas wasn't even from the public league(?), but from TAPPS (texas something something something....basically private schools).

Maybe I've been watching the wrong games, but I've seen a bunch of high profile schools that pretty much disappointed me.

[2FastForYou]

being that this is yappi its no surprse that ohio has the most votes

[concha]

Findlay was 0-4 going into the game and was to play one of the better teams in Texas (#1 or #2 4A team at the time?). Forgive Findlay for not being more in the mood.

[pied]

It is a myth that all HS games in Texas are well attended and have a boisterous crowd. I have been to plenty that prove this fact. To say that:

The atmosphere just doenst seem to be existant, which is a shame because Texas high school football is exciting, very high scoring and very fast. There are a lot of people at these games...but nothing really seems to happen.

is silly. You woud have to go out of your way to find "high profile schools" where there wasn't a good following and atmosphere.

[WrongPerson]

I went to an Austin Westlake home game, which I consider to be pretty high profile considering their run this year in the championship, and (from what i hear...i just moved to Austin) they have a pretty good history. And thats basically what I noticed there. It was worse at other games I attended...but the Westlake game didn't blow my mind.

[pied]

I went to an Austin Westlake home game, which I consider to be pretty high profile considering their run this year in the championship, and (from what i hear...i just moved to Austin) they have a pretty good history. And thats basically what I noticed there. It was worse at other games I attended...but the Westlake game didn't blow my mind.

Doesn't blow my mind does not equate to "doesn't seem to be existant".

I ahve been to several Westlake games, but not any in 15 years. I never thought the crowds were that great. Not terrible, but certainly nothing special. HS football around Austin is typically not that good w/the exception of WL. That has changed recently, especially in some lower classifications.

[WrongPerson]

What I meant is that Westlake didnt exactly blow my mind...i appologize, sleep deprival...gotta love it...by the way, do you know anything about A&M consolidated? Was thinking about checking them while im up here in college station.

[RidgePride]

It is a myth that all HS games in Texas are well attended and have a boisterous crowd. I have been to plenty that prove this fact. To say that:



There is no myth who said ALL high school games are well attended in Texas?

We have more support, following and overall football craze than any other state.

I don't think anyone made the claim that ALL TX high school games are well attended.

[pied]

There is no myth who said ALL high school games are well attended in Texas?

We have more support, following and overall football craze than any other state.
I don't think anyone made the claim that ALL TX high school games are well attended.

Fine, simply produce anything to prove your above bolded comment. Facts, like attendance figures would do fine.


Thanks in advance

[Chicago]

Attendance numbers may work for Pied.

I want to see the "overall football craze" numbers.

[RidgePride]

Fine, simply produce anything to prove your above bolded comment. Facts, like attendance figures would do fine.


Thanks in advance

Here is one of my previous posts

"TX allocates more resources to High school football - And that all comes from the community.

-indoor practice facilities
-state of the art stadiums
-Grass fields are practically obsolete - Everyone has field turf.
-State of the art video equipment for scouting.


The reason TX can afford high priced ridiculous stadiums is because of community support.
The reason the High school head coaches make from 65,000 to 110,000 and do not teach a class is because of community support and the absolute demand for a winner. The community pays for the Stadiums as well as coaches salaries.

It's VERY SIMPLE - Who pays for the stadiums and indoor facilities that are unparalleled by any other state? Who pays these ridiculous coaching salaries that are not equaled by any other state as a whole?

Answer - -
THE COMMUNITY - More community support - more community involvement
That equals the craze that I refer to.


It is a myth that all HS games in Texas are well attended and have a boisterous crowd. I have been to plenty that prove this fact. To say that:



Fine, simply produce anything to prove your above bolded comment. Facts, like attendance figures would do fine.

Thanks in advance

I think this quote pretty much weakens your credibility
I ahve been to several Westlake games, but not any in 15 years.

[RidgePride]

Attendance numbers may work for Pied.

I want to see the "overall football craze" numbers.

Ditto to you from post 44

Why did you even jump into this in the first place?
We don't want the sidekick getting in the way.

[pied]

[
Fine, simply produce anything to prove your above bolded comment. Facts, like attendance figures would do fine.

Thanks in advance

I think this quote pretty much weakens your credibility

How many WL games have you ever been to? The last one I was at was in '94. How does that weaken my credibility?

Do you want me to stick to 5A attendance?

[Elks48]

Here's a list of where this year's Pro Bowlers (offense and defense only, sorry special teamers) went to high school.

Pro Bowlers
1. California, 13
2. Texas, 11
3. Florida, 10
4. Alabama, 6
5. Georgia and North Carolina, 5 each
6. Virginia, 4
7. Oklahoma, Michigan, Tennessee, Louisiana, Maryland, Pennsylvania, 3 each
8. Washington, D.C., Arkansas, 2 each

[Chicago]

The opportunity cost of going to a game in a lot of towns in Texas is probably much lower than the opportunity cost of going to a game in a lot of towns in Ohio or, say, California.

So maybe someone from Ohio or California going to a game could be considered more passionate about football than someone going to a game in Texas.

After all, taking the bus to work is only evidence of a possible passion for taking buses if you don't have another way to get there (or a shot at another job that doesn't require the bus).

And the last (and only) Austin Westlake game I saw was in 1990, since we seem to be keeping tabs on this for everyone.

[RidgePride]

The opportunity cost of going to a game in a lot of towns in Texas is probably much lower than the opportunity cost of going to a game in a lot of towns in Ohio or, say, California.

So maybe someone from Ohio or California going to a game could be considered more passionate about football than someone going to a game in Texas.



That is a huge reach - But hey - at least you tried.

[RidgePride]

Do you want me to stick to 5A attendance?


Of course -

However, I sincerely don't wish for you to was time looking up 5A attendance. Thats just stupid.

Find the lowest Texas 5A Attendances of last year then compare them to the highest of Ohio and Voila - STATS can be manipulated to prove almost any point.

Pied you are just wrong - face it

[Chicago]

You made a ridiculously vague assertion, even for an internet message board.

I pointed out how ridiculously vague it was (by mentioning one component of it, among many, that was open to wide interpretation).

Pied attempted (as I see it) to get you to tighten it up.

You did neither.

You make Naughty look like Clarence Darrow.

[Chicago]

Naughty,

Please do not take offense.

We (or I, anyway) will miss you next year when Lakeland goes 4-6 (but makes the playoffs anyway because they are in a 3- or 4-team district or whatever it is).

[pied]

Of course -

However, I sincerely don't wish for you to was time looking up 5A attendance. Thats just stupid.

Find the lowest Texas 5A Attendances of last year then compare them to the highest of Ohio and Voila - STATS can be manipulated to prove almost any point.

Pied you are just wrong - face it

How is the world am I wrong?

Please read my statement again.

It is a myth that all HS games in Texas are well attended and have a boisterous crowd. I have been to plenty that prove this fact.

You actually copied that and bolded it. I assume you read it. What does that statement have to do w/Ohio attendance figures?

You seem to have a problem. You claim that because I have not been to a Westlake game in fifteen years that my "credibility" should be weakened. huh???

I am not a Westlake fan and live about 200 miles from the school. How often should I make the trip down to see them to maintain my credibility. If my memory serves me correctly, the last game I saw them play was at SWT stadium to face Wes Danaher and CC Calallen. I saw severl games at Chaparral Stadium when I was at UT.

I watched them play Cooper on TV when Brees was there, and again last eyar on TV.

How many times have you seen them live, and when was the last time. Apparently, seeing them recently is a requirement to have an opinion on Texas HS football.

[SLCDad]

I'd be very hard pressed to believe that other states have the football attendance that Texas has. I don't know where to get attendance figures so I'll have to rely on other evidence.

1. Over on the main Yappi board there was a discussion of the very low attendance during the 2006 Ohio playoffs. The discussion was that attendance was very low with most games having under 18,000 attending (some much less). I've been to dozens of playoff games in Texas (granted most are SLC games) and attendance averages 25,000-30,000 with many games over 30,000 with a high of 55,000+ this year.

2. I've seen games from Alabama, Florida, and California on TV. Every game was a big game for it to even be on TV. I was shocked to see how low attendance was at every game. The stadiums and crowds were much, much smaller than what I'm used to in Texas.

3. Texas clearly has the best facilities. I'd bet there are 100+ high school stadiums in Texas that hold 10,000-20,000+. Every other state only has a handful of high school stadiums that large. The stadiums in Texas wouldn't be built if they were not needed. The national powers from other states have much, much smaller stadiums (DLS, Colerain, StX, Lakeland, Warren Central, Independence Charlotte, etc., etc.)

[pied]

I'd be very hard pressed to believe that other states have the football attendance that Texas has. I don't know where to get attendance figures so I'll have to rely on other evidence.

1. Over on the main Yappi board there was a discussion of the very low attendance during the 2006 Ohio playoffs. The discussion was that attendance was very low with most games having under 18,000 attending (some much less). I've been to dozens of playoff games in Texas (granted most are SLC games) and attendance averages 25,000-30,000 with many games over 30,000 with a high of 55,000+ this year.-SLC certainly generates a big following. I do doubt the avg of 25-30K. I know against Lufkin that the stadium only held 14,575 max. The Plano/Abilene/and obviously Trinity games had a bunch. I undertand the title game in the Alamodome was a little underwhelming, ubderstandably in my opinion. These games do not mean that every playoff game is a sell out. I have been to plenty in TX Stsdium alone w/less than 5,000.

2. I've seen games from Alabama, Florida, and California on TV. Every game was a big game for it to even be on TV. I was shocked to see how low attendance was at every game. The stadiums and crowds were much, much smaller than what I'm used to in Texas.-I would genereally agree with that comment.

3. Texas clearly has the best facilities. I'd bet there are 100+ high school stadiums in Texas that hold 10,000-20,000+. Every other state only has a handful of high school stadiums that large. The stadiums in Texas wouldn't be built if they were not needed. The national powers from other states have much, much smaller stadiums (DLS, Colerain, StX, Lakeland, Warren Central, Independence Charlotte, etc., etc.)-I would also agree with that statement.

.

[pied]

Interesting article in the DMN yesterday. I totally missed it. Kind of goes to all the points.

Playoff triple-header results in big payday


11:58 PM Central Standard Time on Monday, February 12, 2007

By RANDY JENNINGS / The Dallas Morning News


The paperwork has been completed on the Nov. 24 playoff triple-header at Texas Stadium, and each of the six schools involved netted $32,000, Grand Prairie ISD athletic director Fred Clausen said.

The headliner game was Southlake Carroll's win over Euless Trinity followed by Cedar Hill's victory over Hebron. South Grand Prairie lost to Colleyville Heritage in the final game.

Clausen said 44,000 paid admissions resulted in a gate of $391,000. The UIL receives 15 percent of that amount, and another large portion pays for stadium rental.

"The amount we made was more than double our bi-district playoff game against Arlington Bowie," Clausen said. "We were pleased to be a part of it."

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/highschools/leaderboard/v3/southlake/carroll/stories/021307dnspopayday.7a183b57.html

The 44,000 would not include the bands/drill teams. The announced attendance was around 46K for that game. The three game average would be 14,666. Does it take a mathmetician to figure that the attendance for theother tow games was less than overwhelming?

[SLCDad]

The 2005 SLC vs. Lufkin game was held at Stephen F. Austin University stadium (Homer Bryce Stadium). Attendance was about 20,000. The stadium officially seats around 15,000 but it's built on two dirt mound/hills on both sides. People sit on the mounds so the capacity is 25,000. The Lufkin side was overflowing and completely covered the grass/dirt. Here is a picture (not same game but similar attendance).
http://sfajacks.cstv.com/genrel/081505aaa.html?pic=2

Take a look at the home side Lufkin crowd from this broadcast of the game. http://cityoflufkin.com/panthers/05/05southlakecarroll.htm

The 2006 title game had around 17,000 in attendance. Remember, the game ended at almost 11:00 pm Saturday night on December 23, was televised nationally and was 300 miles from Southlake. I know lots of SLC fans who stayed home with family for Christmas or were traveling for Christmas.

Plano and Abilene games drew around 35,000. The other SLC games at Texas stadium tipically draw 20,000-30,000.

The SLC/Trinity game drew 55,000 in my opinion. The stadium seats 65,000. They announed attendance at half time when the stadium was 2/3's full. By the end of the 3rd, the stadium was PACKED. I was there. Does this look like 46,000? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCeT-QYF750

SLC consistently draws 10,000 for home regular season games

[naughty]

Naughty,

Please do not take offense.

We (or I, anyway) will miss you next year when Lakeland goes 4-6 (but makes the playoffs anyway because they are in a 3- or 4-team district or whatever it is).

We will be fine. Lakeland does not have losing seasons. That just does not happen at the L.

[pied]

The 2005 SLC vs. Lufkin game was held at Stephen F. Austin University stadium (Homer Bryce Stadium). Attendance was about 20,000. The stadium officially seats around 15,000 but it's built on two dirt mound/hills on both sides. People sit on the mounds so the capacity is 25,000. The Lufkin side was overflowing and completely covered the grass/dirt. Here is a picture (not same game but similar attendance).
http://sfajacks.cstv.com/genrel/081505aaa.html?pic=2-Thanks Good pctures and video. Form the video, it does not appear there were very many "extra" people on the visitors side. I did not see the home side, but it would seem a stratch to see that the crowd was 30% more just on the home side based on the picture. Hard to tell though.

Take a look at the home side Lufkin crowd from this broadcast of the game. http://cityoflufkin.com/panthers/05/05southlakecarroll.htm

The 2006 title game had around 17,000 in attendance. Remember, the game ended at almost 11:00 pm Saturday night on December 23, was televised nationally and was 300 miles from Southlake. I know lots of SLC fans who stayed home with family for Christmas or were traveling for Christmas.-16,812 to be exact. I do understand the issues. Not certain I like the single site concept, except when it is in Dallas of course. The D2 game had a whopping 8,723. Ridge Pride???

http://www.uil.utexas.edu/athletics/archives/football/playoff_brackets/05_06/5A_bracket/5A2_box.html


Plano and Abilene games drew around 35,000. The other SLC games at Texas stadium tipically draw 20,000-30,000.-*The Allen game had 26,839

The SLC/Trinity game drew 55,000 in my opinion. The stadium seats 65,000. They announed attendance at half time when the stadium was 2/3's full. By the end of the 3rd, the stadium was PACKED. I was there. Does this look like 46,000? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCeT-QYF750

I know what you are saying. The paid attendance for all three games was only 44,000. Like I said earlier that did not include the bands etc.

SLC consistently draws 10,000 for home regular season games-No doubt about that. Have you been to any SLC games with less than 10,000 Home or away?

.

[RidgePride]

Interesting article in the DMN yesterday. I totally missed it. Kind of goes to all the points.



http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/highschools/leaderboard/v3/southlake/carroll/stories/021307dnspopayday.7a183b57.html

The 44,000 would not include the bands/drill teams. The announced attendance was around 46K for that game. The three game average would be 14,666. Does it take a mathmetician to figure that the attendance for theother tow games was less than overwhelming?

I was at the game - there was close to 60,000 at the game by end of 3rd quarter.

I sat in my car 2 hours fighting the crowd.

The three game average thing you are doing is stupid. When I left after the SLC game, there were people trying to get in that were for Cedar Hill and Hebron that were not part of the calculation for the Trinity SLC game.

You had to be there to know what happend - you are just guessing - ask someone who was there so that you will know how wrong you are.

PIED YOU WERE NOT THERE- I PROMISE YOU YOU ARE DEAD WRONG - THERE WERE AT LEAST 60,000 FOR THE SLC - TRINITY GAME AND MORE PEOPLE WERE COMING IN AT THE END OF THE SLC/TRINITY GAME JUST TO WATCH CEDAR HILL/HEBRON.

QUIT GUESSING

[Chicago]

Are you saying someone lied on the financials?

That could never happen in Texas (sorry -- gratuitous Enron shot, and possibly unfair to Enron).

[pied]

I was at the game - there was close to 60,000 at the game by end of 3rd quarter.

I sat in my car 2 hours fighting the crowd.

The three game average thing you are doing is stupid. When I left after the SLC game, there were people trying to get in that were for Cedar Hill and Hebron that were not part of the calculation for the Trinity SLC game.

You had to be there to know what happend - you are just guessing - ask someone who was there so that you will know how wrong you are.



How am I wrong? These are not my numbers. These are the numbers of "paid admissions". You are right I did not go to the game, do you think that the GP AD Fred Claussen did? Take it up with him.

Also, when was the last Westlake game you attended? I need that info to gague your credibility.

[Chicago]

Westlake games next year will be like the scene in Blues Brothers where they welcome the "Illinois law enforcement community" to the concert.

"We'd like to welcome all the Westlake fans, as well as everyone here to have their credibility certified for Yappi's National Football Board."

[pied]

FYI the total attendance for the two 5A championship games was 25,535(16,812 for the WL/SLC game and 8,723 for the Cedar Hill/Cy Falls game). In contrast the FL 6A title game had 24,368. There was only one game in the FL total.

I do understand that this was the FL record and that none of the four teams in TX wre from San Antonio, but did find those numbers interesting.

[Chicago]

http://www.texasbob.com/football/schoolindex1.html

Discuss amongst yourselves.

[Chicago]

Of course, the fact that anyone would even put that together has to count for something.

[RidgePride]

Pied - I am a little confused

You asked me to prove my statement that TX has more support, following, and overall craze right?

I figured you wanted me to prove this because you did not agree with my statement.

Then You posted this --

2. I've seen games from Alabama, Florida, and California on TV. Every game was a big game for it to even be on TV. I was shocked to see how low attendance was at every game. The stadiums and crowds were much, much smaller than what I'm used to in Texas.-I would genereally agree with that comment. [Pied]

3. Texas clearly has the best facilities. I'd bet there are 100+ high school stadiums in Texas that hold 10,000-20,000+. Every other state only has a handful of high school stadiums that large. The stadiums in Texas wouldn't be built if they were not needed. The national powers from other states have much, much smaller stadiums (DLS, Colerain, StX, Lakeland, Warren Central, Independence Charlotte, etc., etc.)-I would also agree with that statement. [Pied]


Could you clarify please?

[pied]

Pied - I am a little confused

You asked me to prove my statement that TX has more support, following, and overall craze right?

I figured you wanted me to prove this because you did not agree with my statement.

Then You posted this --



Could you clarify please?

Certainly. I do generally agree that the games I have seen in those states on TV had fairly low attendance. I ahve also seen games with large attendances. One that comes to mind was the 6A title game in FL.

The statement also did not mention OH where two of the largest HS stadiums in the country are. My top two HS stadiums I have been to would probably be Pennington Field in HEB and J. Bierney(sp?) Stadium in Allentown PA.

I do feel that SLCDad did a much better job in quatifying and making a case than you did.

P.S. I am still waiting on your response to when the last Westlake game you attended was. You have to have read the question by now. I am getting more and more curious by the day.

[SLCDad]

FYI the total attendance for the two 5A championship games was 25,535(16,812 for the WL/SLC game and 8,723 for the Cedar Hill/Cy Falls game). In contrast the FL 6A title game had 24,368. There was only one game in the FL total.

I do understand that this was the FL record and that none of the four teams in TX wre from San Antonio, but did find those numbers interesting.Why don't you compare attendance at all of the playoff games?You picked Florida's ALL-TIME BEST attended game and compared it to SLC's WORST attended playoff game.

I did a quick estimate and found that SLC's average playoff attendance in 2006 was higher than Florida's all-time state record game.

[SLCDad]

http://www.texasbob.com/football/schoolindex1.html

Discuss amongst yourselves.That's a fun data base of stadiums. The downside is that it's not always accurate. For example, SLC's stadium is listed as having 7,500 capacity. That was true when the stadium was built but it was expanded two years after it was built and now seats around 10,000-11,000.

I scanned the DFW area and saw around 25 stadiums with 10,000-20,000 capacity. That doesn't include some of the outlying areas around DFW.

[pied]

Why don't you compare attendance at all of the playoff games?You picked Florida's ALL-TIME BEST attended game and compared it to SLC's WORST attended playoff game.

I was comparing the state title games. That seems to be a fair comparison for the most part. Attendance figures are typically not the easiest to find to be honest, and I do not have the gumption to sort through that much info, even if available.

Specifically I was challenged to come up with validation that not all games in TX were well attended.

[SLCDad]

I was comparing the state title games. That seems to be a fair comparison for the most part. Attendance figures are typically not the easiest to find to be honest, and I do not have the gumption to sort through that much info, even if available.

Specifically I was challenged to come up with validation that not all games in TX were well attended.Perhaps . . . but the example you used is not representative of normal attendance. You picked a very high Florida game and compared it to a very low Texas game.

I edited my original post to add a comment saying that SLC's average playoff attendance in 2006 was higher than Florida's all time record. There are many teams in Texas that draw just as many fans as SLC does.

[Bordertown]

Trying to back into the Texas attendence numbers, I started with the UIL football gate revenues form 2005. The numbers include all classifications and 6-man football. So there is distortion in the average.

Total UIL gate receipts.... $1,102,798
UIL Gate percentage.................... 15%
Total Gate receipts............$7,351,986
Average ticket price..................$7.50 [1]
Attendence..........................980,264
Games.......................................439 [2]
Average Attendence..................2,233 [2]

[1] ticket prices range from $6 in advance/ $7 at gate to a Texas Stadium $10 at gate

[2] Includes 16 6-man games and 47 Class 1A games which are school of 189 and less which will negatively impact the average attendence. Excluded bands, pep squads, drill teams, and other comp'd groups and individuals.

Pied I agree with you that not all Texas games are well attended. The inner city schools are poorly attended. Usually when a innercity school is playing at Texas Stadium half the stadium is virtually empty. However for the sake of this discussion, I think the same can be said for all the states involving inner city schools. But the 500 in attendence to watch Kimball could be 25% more than a similiar school in another state.

[pied]

Here is a quick comparison for title games only.

FL-6A: 24,368
TX-5A/D1: 16,812
OH-D1: 12,621
FL-5A: 12,093
TX-5A/D2: 8,723

TX-4A/D1 16,000(est)
OH-D2: 7,839
CA-DII: "slightly larger than 5,000"

OH-D3: 8,750
Fl-3A: 5,326
CA-DIII: "about 5,000"


OH-D4: 7,840


OH-D5: 5,967


OH-D6: 6,120

I will update them as I find them.

[pied]

Perhaps . . . but the example you used is not representative of normal attendance. You picked a very high Florida game and compared it to a very low Texas game.

I edited my original post to add a comment saying that SLC's average playoff attendance in 2006 was higher than Florida's all time record. There are many teams in Texas that draw just as many fans as SLC does.

Again, I am not picking and choosing to make a point. It is simply the data is not well published. I added another post w/as much info as I could gather.

As far as teams that draw as many as SLC. These things ebb and flow through the years. Take Permian. It used to be that when they came to Irving, you could count on 10,000.

This past year's SLC-Permian game only attracted 11,534.

http://hs.beloblog.com/archives/2006/12/mojo_scores_and_attendance_is_announced.html

CUJO of Tyler John Tyler used to bring a ton as well. Not so much any longer.

I can only think of three or so that I might include.

Allen-although do they bring ayone outside of the DFW area? Their band accounts for dang near 1,000 by itself.
PNG-Pretty legendary stuff
Katy-maybe?
Plano-A lot last year, but they have been WWWAAAYYY down


What teams comprise the "many" you can think of?

[Bordertown]

California Bowl had 13,668 for a tripleheader.

http://www.venturacountystar.com/vcs/sports_columnists/article/0,1375,VCS_225_5221630,00.html

[pied]

California Bowl had 13,668 for a tripleheader.

http://www.venturacountystar.com/vcs/sports_columnists/article/0,1375,VCS_225_5221630,00.html

Thanks for the link. Seems to go in line with the other two games I listed.

I don't know why, but CA seems to be the hardest state to get HS info like boxscores from.

Not certain there is enough info to list the DI game. I would estimate 5,000 or so based on the way the other games were listed.

[SLCDad]

What teams comprise the "many" you can think of?Katy, Lufkin, SV, Coppell, Abilene, Plano, North Shore are teams that come to mind off the top of my head. There are others. Granted SLC has greater attendance lately due to more playoff games, but these teams and others draw as many fans as SLC does for comparable games.

Have you ever tried to get a ticket for a Lufkin or Katy home game? Lufkin's stadium seats around 10,000 and the home fans fill all of the home side and 50% of the visitors side. It's a constant complaint from visiting teams. When Abilene has done well they draw more than SLC. Same with Plano.

You mention that attendance changes quickly depending on a team's success. I agree.

I'd guess that 1/2 of SLC's 12 playoff games in the two years had more attendance than Florida's all time record.

[PorkopolisPigskin]

Best Tradition- Ohio or Texas
Best Teams- Cali
Best Top Division To Bottom Division- Ohio or Texas
Best Talent- Cali or Florida

[pied]

Katy, Lufkin, SV, Coppell, Abilene, Plano, North Shore are teams that come to mind off the top of my head. There are others. Granted SLC has greater attendance lately due to more playoff games, but these teams and others draw as many fans as SLC does for comparable games.-I can see Plano/Katy/Lufkin. SV would surprise me, and NS even moreso. Sadly Lamar used to be in that crowd. The '89 game w/Permian had close to 40K. The first game I was at Texas Stadium where they opened the upper level. Lewisville has a great fanbase, and will travel with the best of them I think. MArcus was pretty close as well


Have you ever tried to get a ticket for a Lufkin or Katy home game? -Nope, no real desire to travel to ouston to see Katy, but I would LOVE to catch a Longivew-Lufkin game one time. Lufkin's stadium seats around 10,000 and the home fans fill all of the home side and 50% of the visitors side. It's a constant complaint from visiting teams. When Abilene has done well they draw more than SLC. Same with Plano.-Been to PLano many times-especially when they were very good in the mid 90's. Crowds werwe big but nothing "special" especially given the enrollment.

You mention that attendance changes quickly depending on a team's success. I agree.

I'd guess that 1/2 of SLC's 12 playoff games in the two years had more attendance than Florida's all time record.-I have been to the SLC-Allen games and Abilene games and I would agree with you

.

[pied]

Best Tradition- Ohio or Texas
Best Teams- Cali
Best Top Division To Bottom Division- Ohio or Texas
Best Talent- Cali or Florida

Add "or Texas" to the second and fourth and I would agree.

Per capita FL is off the charts. TX produces the most D1 players, but FL is right there with less population. If I had to give the nod to best tradition, I'd say Ohio. They were a bigger state for a long time w/more population centers.

[RidgePride]

Certainly. I do generally agree that the games I have seen in those states on TV had fairly low attendance. I ahve also seen games with large attendances. One that comes to mind was the 6A title game in FL.

The statement also did not mention OH where two of the largest HS stadiums in the country are. My top two HS stadiums I have been to would probably be Pennington Field in HEB and J. Bierney(sp?) Stadium in Allentown PA.

I do feel that SLCDad did a much better job in quatifying and making a case than you did.

P.S. I am still waiting on your response to when the last Westlake game you attended was. You have to have read the question by now. I am getting more and more curious by the day.


I haven't been to any Westlake games - So what? What does that mean?
My point is that you were talking about the less than steller crowds - but you had not been to a game in 15 years.

I go to at least 15 TX high school games a year - including playoffs.

Regarding SLCDad making a better case - SO WHAT? I don't care if consumerman makes a better case as long as they are disputing your ridiculousness.

Pennington field is way outdated - there are many stadiums in the DFW metroplex that are better - You must not get out to TX football games much.

PS - You did an extremely poor job of clarifying your "both sides of the fence" stance on TX high school football "craze."

[pied]

I haven't been to any Westlake games - So what? What does that mean?
My point is that you were talking about the less than steller crowds - but you had not been to a game in 15 years.-Your reading comprehension is poor apparently. My copied and bolded my statement, but did not read it. Again:

I ahve been to several Westlake games, but not any in 15 years."

I have been to a ton of games, just not Westlake specifically for awhile. Reasons seem apparent to me.

I go to at least 15 TX high school games a year - including playoffs.

Regarding SLCDad making a better case - SO WHAT? I don't care if consumerman makes a better case as long as they are disputing your ridiculousness.-What ridiculousness is that?

Pennington field is way outdated - there are many stadiums in the DFW metroplex that are better - You must not get out to TX football games much.-I have been to many of them. Many of the new ones have tracks. I do not like that at football stadiums. Pennington Field does not. It is older, but is still one of my favorites.

PS - You did an extremely poor job of clarifying your "both sides of the fence" stance on TX high school football "craze."-And you are doing a poor job in my opinion trying to prove me wrong. You seem to be doing this on several boards and are simply attacking any stance that I take regardless of what it is. I am a Texas homer admittedly. I do understand there are a lot of good football players/teams/coaches and fans around the country. I also have been to many games with few fans and little atmosphere, right here in the metrolex(gasp). It does not alter my thoughts or love for Texas HS football.

Do you agree that there are 30 teams in Texas could beat the 6A champion in FL? You seems adamant about telling me that on the 5A board.

.

[SLCDad]

I don't know much about North Shore (Galena Park) but I know they just built a new stadium that seats 13,500. That's why I mentioned them.

http://www.flexicoreoftexas.com/pix/5_02/stadium2.jpg

[ams eds fan]

Well I think these numbers are pretty conclusive!
:thumb:

[RidgePride]

This is how it started

It is a myth that all HS games in Texas are well attended and have a boisterous crowd. I have been to plenty that prove this fact. To say that:




My response

"There is no myth who said ALL high school games are well attended in Texas?
We have more support, following and overall football craze than any other state.
I don't think anyone made the claim that ALL TX high school games are well attended."

You asked me to prove my bolded statement as if you disagreed -
then you came back and stated.

2. I've seen games from Alabama, Florida, and California on TV. Every game was a big game for it to even be on TV. I was shocked to see how low attendance was at every game. The stadiums and crowds were much, much smaller than what I'm used to in Texas.-I would genereally agree with that comment. [Pied]

3. Texas clearly has the best facilities. I'd bet there are 100+ high school stadiums in Texas that hold 10,000-20,000+. Every other state only has a handful of high school stadiums that large. The stadiums in Texas wouldn't be built if they were not needed. The national powers from other states have much, much smaller stadiums (DLS, Colerain, StX, Lakeland, Warren Central, Independence Charlotte, etc., etc.)-I would also agree with that statement. [Pied]



That is what this whole dispute is over. Why did you want me to prove That TX overall has more fan "craze" if you already thought so yourself?

That is what I feel is ridiculous.

[pied]

RP-I understand what you are saying. Here are a couple of quotes that got me going:

TX just takes High school football much more seriously than any other State.

TX 5A is run like a college program.
The head coaches do not teach a class. They focus 100% on football year round. They are hired to win football games period. Lose and you are fired along with your Offensive and Defensive coordinators and possibly your whole staff.

When the TX High school playoffs comes around - if your team makes it - it is absolute hysteria in that community.

People talk about the pressure put on coaches at say, Massillon and Eds and I chuckle because it is like that at every school down here. Lose and you have to face the whole town.


While the above is true to an extent in many towns, it is not in many others. When was the last time that the Carrolton FB schools were good in football. Have people started a drive to have Eddy Peach removed? Take the entire DISD. Why are they good ar basketball, but not football? Does anyone really care at all? For that matter throw in the FWISD. What about the Irving schools.

Bordertown did an analysis that showed the paid attendance for the playoffs was an average of 2,233 people. That number is probably a little low, but I do think it shows that not every town has "hysteria" come playoff time.

The GP AD said their $32K take from the triple header was more than double the take from the bidistrict game the week before. Taking just the numbers given and that each game "had "14,666 paid attendance, is it safe to assume that the weeks game before w/SGP-Bowie with schools that have a combined attendance of over six thousand students had just over that amount in attendance?

Is that the example of those communities wrapped up in playoff hysteria?

I love TX HS football. I just don't see the need to portray something that it is not. I think the above quotes do that.

If that was not the intent my bad.

You brought up indoor practice facilities/turf/etc.

There certainly are many schools with those amenities. Do you realize for every school that has them, that there are probably 10 and more likely 20-50 schools in the state that does not?

Your post would not indicate that you do. Maybe I am wrong.

Then you posted that since I had not been to a WL game in ten years that my credibility was shot. I think you addressed that by stating you did not undertstand the comment. OK

Do this make more sense?

[RidgePride]

Well I live in Keller which is 5 minutes from Southlake. Every school in this area has Field turf- Even the Grand Prairie district.

Southlake Carroll is the only one with an indoor facility.
The only stadium I know around here that has grass is the Fort Worth stadium used by the inner city.

I know a guy that lives in Florida who is amazed by how much our coaches make and that they do not teach. I don't think it is common.
I feel I am justified in saying TX is #1 in high school football hysteria with Ohio being #2.
I never said TX fills every stadium on every Friday or even that other states do not draw big crowds.

The Peach family is a legend - So that is not a good example.

I see that on 5ATexasfootball.com everyone that attended the SLC/Trinity game agreed with me - debunking the figures you posted. Not saying it's your fault but you just had to be there to get a true account.

When they anounced the official attendance people were still trying to get in - it was mass hysteria.
I parked about a mile away at a hotel and paid $20 to park then had to walk over the major highway with hundreds of others doing the same. You had to do that or you would NOT make it in. It was just like a Cowboys game. That was the craziest thing I had ever seen for a high school game.

[pied]

I see that on 5ATexasfootball.com everyone that attended the SLC/Trinity game agreed with me - debunking the figures you posted. Not saying it's your fault but you just had to be there to get a true account.

This comment and the ones below are the ones I just don't get. These baords should not be personal, but you seem to want to make them so. They are not "my" numbers. It is published information from the Dallas Morning News quoting the GPISD AD.

I had nothing to do with it, except posting it. I thought that was pretty clear, but you posted the above comment along with this:

PIED YOU WERE NOT THERE- I PROMISE YOU YOU ARE DEAD WRONG - THERE WERE AT LEAST 60,000 FOR THE SLC - TRINITY GAME AND MORE PEOPLE WERE COMING IN AT THE END OF THE SLC/TRINITY GAME JUST TO WATCH CEDAR HILL/HEBRON.

QUIT GUESSING

What was "I" dead wrong or guessing about? For the record I ahve emailed the DMN writer to get clarification I will post what I receive if anything.

That was not the only time you accused me of being wrong.

I think TexasFrog knows what he is talking about - and of course Pied is his usual misinformed self.

For the record, what I Texasfrog and I wree debating were severl items.

1. There are 30 teams in Texas that would beat the 6A FL champion including the top ten from 4A.
2 . The top teams from FL come from the lower classifications. The problem is that all the polls that rank the teams disagree as well as the fans of FL HS football.
3. He also spouted off many innaccuracies about the game between Lamar and Rutherford. I know these because, like I have said many times, I am a Lamar alum and was at the game.

What about the above was I showing my "usual misinformed self"?

[RidgePride]

Why would you get offended when I say that eye witnesses debunk the official attendance reported by DMN. It is a true statement.

I don't want to get into the other stuff.

[pied]

Why would you get offended when I say that eye witnesses debunk the official attendance reported by DMN. It is a true statement.-Because that coupled with your other statement of me being "Dead Wrong" seems to be alluding these numbers to me. Does that make sense?

I don't want to get into the other stuff.-I wouldn't either

..

[pied]

FYI-I received the follwing response from the author of the newspaper article.

I'm guessing the sizable cut the stadium gets was not taken into account when $60,000 per school was tossed about.

All the parking and concessions go to Texas Stadium, too. The split only
involves the live gate.

Maybe the first report was a little optimistic.

Like you, I thought the paid crowd was larger than the announced number,
too.
Randy

[SLCDad]

There was clearly more than 44,000 at the SLC/Trinity game. I was there. I had a seat in the lower deck on about the 15-20 yard line.

It was amazing how the crowd kept growing as the game progressed. The traffic was so bad, when the game started the Trinity band had not arrived yet. The SLC cheerleaders got there minutes before kick-off. Both of these groups left their schools hours before gametime expecting to arrive an hour before kickoff.

I'd guess there were 25,000 there at kick-off. 45,000 were seated by half time. 55,000-60,000 were there by the end. Every section was full. The only empty seats were "ones" and "twos" scattered throughout.

[Bordertown]

My understanding Texas Stadium counts gate sales to half time. So 45,000 makes sense. Folks coming after halftime are arriving to stake out seats for the next game and catch the end of the prior game. After halftime the tickets sold and collected are for the next game attendence. That is why schools encourage ticket sales prior to game day to get credit to offset the stadium cost.

[pied]

Bordertown-The "paid admission" was 44,000 for all three games according to the article.

[RidgePride]

There was clearly more than 44,000 at the SLC/Trinity game. I was there. I had a seat in the lower deck on about the 15-20 yard line.

It was amazing how the crowd kept growing as the game progressed. The traffic was so bad, when the game started the Trinity band had not arrived yet. The SLC cheerleaders got there minutes before kick-off. Both of these groups left their schools hours before gametime expecting to arrive an hour before kickoff.

I'd guess there were 25,000 there at kick-off. 45,000 were seated by half time. 55,000-60,000 were there by the end. Every section was full. The only empty seats were "ones" and "twos" scattered throughout.


I live about 25 minutes from Texas Stadium - So I left two hours early so that I would be early to the game.

I sat in traffic so long that I was going to miss the entire game. So in desperate times, I parked at a hotel about a mile away and paid 20 bucks for it.

I missed the entire 1st quarter and half the 2nd.

[TheFan2117]

Hey what happen to NJ, I mean they represented well in last years challenge. Can we give NJ some props in here!

[HORNPRIDE398]

Hey what happen to NJ, I mean they represented well in last years challenge. Can we give NJ some props in here!

No.

[naughty]

It has to go.

1t. texas-beacause of fan base and team play, Florida-just because of pure talent and team play thrown in.

3. Ohio

4. Cali

[SLCDad]

I live about 25 minutes from Texas Stadium - So I left two hours early so that I would be early to the game.

I sat in traffic so long that I was going to miss the entire game. So in desperate times, I parked at a hotel about a mile away and paid 20 bucks for it.

I missed the entire 1st quarter and half the 2nd.Yeah, and when you got in, probably 1/2 of the fans were still outside.

I left less than two hours early but got off of 114 an exit early and took the back roads to the stadium. I was seated almost 30 mins before kick-off. When I sat down, I thought the talk of a huge crowd was overblown. As it turned out, the crowd was much bigger than anyone anticipated.

It was an amazing experience to be there. My seats were about 10 rows up on about the 10 yard line so I had a terrific view when SLC scored in the first quarter and also when they came roaring back in the 4th qtr. Most of their points were scored right in front of me.

[SLCDad]

It has to go.

1t. texas-beacause of fan base and team play, Florida-just because of pure talent and team play thrown in.

3. Ohio

4. Cali

Here is how the Freeman model ranks the top 50 teams in each state:

Rank........State........Average Rating......Average Schedule Strength
1............California..........42.4............. .....26.1
2............Texas...............42............... .....27.4
3............Pennsylvania.....37.9................ ..22.1
4............Ohio................37.8............. .....23.4
5............Illinois..............37.2........... .......21.2
6............Florida..............34.............. ......18.9
7............New York..........33.8..................20.8
8............Tennessee.........33.4............... ..20.8
9............Washington........33.2............... ..19.7
10..........Alabama.............33................ ...19.8

[RidgePride]

I think it goes

Texas - Puts out the most 'very good' teams in the nation
California - About equal talent to Texas - not as many 'very good' teams though.
Ohio - 2nd in fan craze and hysteria - talent is 4th because of size.
Florida - Maybe the most talent, just not enough community support to get good coaching and facilities

[naughty]

Here is how the Freeman model ranks the top 50 teams in each state:

Rank........State........Average Rating......Average Schedule Strength
1............California..........42.4............. .....26.1
2............Texas...............42............... .....27.4
3............Pennsylvania.....37.9................ ..22.1
4............Ohio................37.8............. .....23.4
5............Illinois..............37.2........... .......21.2
6............Florida..............34.............. ......18.9
7............New York..........33.8..................20.8
8............Tennessee.........33.4............... ..20.8
9............Washington........33.2............... ..19.7
10..........Alabama.............33................ ...19.8

please get your computer stuff out of here.

#1 Florida, Texas depends on who you ask

#2 Florida, Texas depends on who you ask.

#3 Cali

#4 ohio.

Those are the top 4 states for football. So your computer is lying to you again slcdad.

[concha]

I think it goes

Texas - Puts out the most 'very good' teams in the nation
California - About equal talent to Texas - not as many 'very good' teams though.
Ohio - 2nd in fan craze and hysteria - talent is 4th because of size.
Florida - Maybe the most talent, just not enough community support to get good coaching and facilities

This is difficult unless you agree on criteria.

If you go by talent, then the best are actually the smaller states in the Southeast. Per capita, they put out a ton of talent.

But if you combine talent, teams/programs, coaching, fan/community support and tradition, and then also consider that the smaller states i just mentioned don't have what I'll refer to as "critical mass", then I'd say the following:

1) Texas: Has it all and is a big state. Where does Texas have a true weak spot?

2) Ohio: Lacks the $$$ that Texas throws at the hs level. More tradition/history though. Arguably the most tradition in the nation, in fact. Ohio in unsurpassed in coaching. Many top/famous programs. Texas and Ohio can argue about fan support and passion all day long. Florida and Cali are left in the dust as far as that goes.

3) Florida/Cali: Turn out lots of talent, but then again are big states (enormous in the case of Cali). Relative to Texas and Ohio, lack the "football culture". I think most knowledgeable people wouldn't put the big schools in Florida or Cali over Ohio's, despite their size advantage. Whereas Texas almost certainly beats Ohio on depth.

[Chicago]

Try this for a criterion:

If you had to watch high school football in one state for the rest of your life, and nothing else mattered (job, family, and so on), which state would you choose?

I'd choose Texas.

[concha]

Try this for a criterion:

If you had to watch high school football in one state for the rest of your life, and nothing else mattered (job, family, and so on), which state would you choose?

I'd choose Texas.

As I am homer, I would choose Ohio.

That said, Texas would be #2.You don't hear much argument from people that the football cultures and atmospheres in these two states are the top two in the country. In Ohio you also have the advantage of having "concentration of wealth". Within a 10-mile or so radius in Cincy you have Elder, X, Moe and Colerain. In Cleveland you don't have to drive far to see Eds, Ignatius and the talent at Glenville. Not to mention the likes of Benedictine. Massillon and Canton are not far. Even the most distant big school powers are no more than 4-5 hours drive apart.

[WrongPerson]

This is difficult unless you agree on criteria.

If you go by talent, then the best are actually the smaller states in the Southeast. Per capita, they put out a ton of talent.

But if you combine talent, teams/programs, coaching, fan/community support and tradition, and then also consider that the smaller states i just mentioned don't have what I'll refer to as "critical mass", then I'd say the following:

1) Texas: Has it all and is a big state. Where does Texas have a true weak spot?

2) Ohio: Lacks the $$$ that Texas throws at the hs level. More tradition/history though. Arguably the most tradition in the nation, in fact. Ohio in unsurpassed in coaching. Many top/famous programs. Texas and Ohio can argue about fan support and passion all day long. Florida and Cali are left in the dust as far as that goes.

3) Florida/Cali: Turn out lots of talent, but then again are big states (enormous in the case of Cali). Relative to Texas and Ohio, lack the "football culture". I think most knowledgeable people wouldn't put the big schools in Florida or Cali over Ohio's, despite their size advantage. Whereas Texas almost certainly beats Ohio on depth.

Texas's weakspot: Private schools...easily

or defense :D

[concha]

Texas's weakspot: Private schools...easily

or defense :D

Queue the irate Texan response....

5, 4, 3, 2, 1.....

[footballfan09]

Findlay is no where near Cincinatti?

it;s Cincinnati man...sorry it's my home town

[climbingwalls24]

[QUOTE=concha;2471126]This is difficult unless you agree on criteria.

1) Texas: Has it all and is a big state. Where does Texas have a true weak spot?

[QUOTE]

border patrol

[pied]

Queue the irate Texan response....

5, 4, 3, 2, 1.....



I think I agree with concha. MS/LA put out crazy talent per capita.

Many Texans would argue the tradition angle, but I think it is a valid discussion point. Most of the traditional schools have fallen somewhat off the map, and while you have some great rivalries, they don't quite stand up ti some of those in Ohio.

Many of the best schools in Texas were not in existence 25-30 years ago or in many cases very very small.


As far as the defense crack, while I think that might be overplayed, it is hard to deny the offensive explosion in the past 10 years. There was an interesting thread on another board that displayed that fact very clearly.

Where would I live, Texas. Good question and I think concha came up with a reasonable response.

I live in the DFW area. I can drive a short distance to get to some of the small towns you think about where it is the last person out turn out the lights. The DFW area is one of the nations hotbeds for recruiting talent and I can choose to go that route if I want on a Friday night.

In Texas you are pretty much guaranteed to have 2-3 top National teams each year. The teams may change(w/the exception of SLC the past few years) but you know there will be several candidates.

When the playoffs start, I can park myself at Texas Stadium for a triple header. I can expect at least one huge mathchup drawing 40k. I can see drill teams, 500+ member bands and fans creating crazy racket w/propane tanks filled with ball bearings.

I can also see some of the finest offenses in the nation.

[pied]

[QUOTE=concha;2471126]This is difficult unless you agree on criteria.

1) Texas: Has it all and is a big state. Where does Texas have a true weak spot?

[QUOTE]

border patrol

ouch

[footballfan09]

border patrol

hahaha true true true

[climbingwalls24]

hahaha true true true

everybodys thinking it, im just saying it. but if their only weakness has nothing to do with football, what does that say about texas football...

:soapbox: its such a religion they're all too busy watching football on friday night to be catching the people who hop the fence to get in this country. (step off soapbox)

now might be a good time to que a agreeing texan/irate hispanic response
5...4...3...2...1...

[WrongPerson]

As far as the defense crack, while I think that might be overplayed, it is hard to deny the offensive explosion in the past 10 years. There was an interesting thread on another board that displayed that fact very clearly.

I can also see some of the finest offenses in the nation.


It might be overplayed, but in my short experience at texas games (only 10 or so games) the defense just seems like they dont want to be there, DBs are constantly going for the big hit instead of wraping and driving. Too many games I've been to were "who is gonna score last" kind of games, which is exciting, dont get me wrong, but it just isn't sound football.

The lack of defense makes me wonder if it is just a good offense pounding on the terrible defense, or is it truely great offense...lots of room for doubt.


As for the private schools I mentioned earlier, they kind of show you what Texas football would be without the resources they put into it.

[climbingwalls24]

Here is how the Freeman model ranks the top 50 teams in each state:

Rank........State........Average Rating......Average Schedule Strength
1............California..........42.4............. .....26.1
2............Texas...............42............... .....27.4
3............Pennsylvania.....37.9................ ..22.1
4............Ohio................37.8............. .....23.4
5............Illinois..............37.2........... .......21.2
6............Florida..............34.............. ......18.9
7............New York..........33.8..................20.8
8............Tennessee.........33.4............... ..20.8
9............Washington........33.2............... ..19.7
10..........Alabama.............33................ ...19.8

ladies and gentlemen, proof that computers can be wrong...

[pied]

It might be overplayed, but in my short experience at texas games (only 10 or so games) the defense just seems like they dont want to be there, DBs are constantly going for the big hit instead of wraping and driving. Too many games I've been to were "who is gonna score last" kind of games, which is exciting, dont get me wrong, but it just isn't sound football.

The lack of defense makes me wonder if it is just a good offense pounding on the terrible defense, or is it truely great offense...lots of room for doubt.


As for the private schools I mentioned earlier, they kind of show you what Texas football would be without the resources they put into it.

I don't think the coaching has changed, fundamentally, but the philosphy has. I think more and more coaches have out their better players on the offensive side of the ball.

You must be a private school guy and really nto that familiar with Texas. Do you think that if prvate schools were more prevalent and competed in the UIL that they would not have equal to better facilities as their public counterparts?

[WrongPerson]

I went to St. X, so I guess you could call me a private school guy, and yeah I am new to the Texas high school system, but don't get me wrong...I like good football from either public or private...I really don't care.

I really don't see what you're trying to say...private schools would have worse facilities no matter what sports league or what have you they are in. The private schools just dont have close to the money that public schools have since, as far as i know at least, they are given any money by the state.

[SLCDad]

please get your computer stuff out of here.

#1 Florida, Texas depends on who you ask

#2 Florida, Texas depends on who you ask.

#3 Cali

#4 ohio.

Those are the top 4 states for football. So your computer is lying to you again slcdad.

Yeah, right. It's not my computer.

Massey rankings say the same thing as Freeman except they don't include California.

At least the computers don't have a homer bias like the rest of us. In fact, I think the computers do a very good job overall. (Better than any human poll.)

[SLCDad]

This is difficult unless you agree on criteria.

If you go by talent, then the best are actually the smaller states in the Southeast. Per capita, they put out a ton of talent.

But if you combine talent, teams/programs, coaching, fan/community support and tradition, and then also consider that the smaller states i just mentioned don't have what I'll refer to as "critical mass", then I'd say the following:

1) Texas: Has it all and is a big state. Where does Texas have a true weak spot?

2) Ohio: Lacks the $$$ that Texas throws at the hs level. More tradition/history though. Arguably the most tradition in the nation, in fact. Ohio in unsurpassed in coaching. Many top/famous programs. Texas and Ohio can argue about fan support and passion all day long. Florida and Cali are left in the dust as far as that goes.

3) Florida/Cali: Turn out lots of talent, but then again are big states (enormous in the case of Cali). Relative to Texas and Ohio, lack the "football culture". I think most knowledgeable people wouldn't put the big schools in Florida or Cali over Ohio's, despite their size advantage. Whereas Texas almost certainly beats Ohio on depth.

I couldn't agree more. Very objective post.

You mention the depth of Texas. The depth and sheer size of Texas are the reasons for the strong strength of schedule ratings that the computer models produce for Texas. When a team advances deep in the playoffs they are at the end of a massive bracket which computers reward. Unlike Ohio, where the strength of schedule in the regular season is unreal for some of the top teams.

[SLCDad]

Texas's weakspot: Private schools...easily

or defense :DSpeaking of Texas defense, a VERY poor REL team held Colerain to one of their lowest outputs of the season in 2005. Yeah, I know you will say the Colerain called of the dogs but if that's true are we to believe that Colerain did that only in the REL game and not in their other games? You should see what the other teams on REL's schedule did to them. It wasn't pretty.

In Texas, for the most part, a team needs to have a multifacited offense to be successful. If the defense can key in one area, the team is usually doomed. There are a few notable exceptions (like 2006 Cedar Hill) but this point is very true for most of the good teams in Texas (SLC, Trinity, Katy, Lufkin, etc.) I attend mostly SLC games. When I see an opposing team that isn't balanced, I just wait for the slaughter to begin. Happens every time, even deep in the playoffs.

None of the private schools in Texas have great football teams. I can't think of even one.

[pied]

I went to St. X, so I guess you could call me a private school guy, and yeah I am new to the Texas high school system, but don't get me wrong...I like good football from either public or private...I really don't care.

I really don't see what you're trying to say...private schools would have worse facilities no matter what sports league or what have you they are in. The private schools just dont have close to the money that public schools have since, as far as i know at least, they are given any money by the state.

Do you know that John Paul II HS which deos not have seniors yet just had two families donate $2.6M to help build a football and track stadium?

That is one school and two donors for athletic facilities alone to a school that has yet to play a down with seniors. I may be going crazy, but having seen some of the facilities around first hand, I think that this may be the tip of the ice berg.

Do private school facilities in large part compare favorably to the publics? No way.

Will that change as mroe schools gain admittance to the UIL? Undoubtedly in my opinion.

Those parents who want the best of the best for thier kids now and begin to send them to private schools money will be following as well.

[SLCDad]

ladies and gentlemen, proof that computers can be wrong...

I haven't seen any ladies here . . . . and . . . . I'm wondering which posters you are calling "gentlemen"? That would be a stretch in a few cases. :D :D

[SLCDad]

Those parents who want the best of the best for thier kids now and begin to send them to private schools money will be following as well.

I wanted the "best of the best" for my kids so I moved to . . . . well . . . . nevermind.

[pied]

I wanted the "best of the best" for my kids so I moved to . . . . well . . . . nevermind.

I understand, you moved to a place where hand grenades.......(just kidding)

My point is in response to this:

As for the private schools I mentioned earlier, they kind of show you what Texas football would be without the resources they put into it.

People always want to equate things, typically to the way things are done in which they are familiar.

In this case private schools in Texas vs. private schools in Ohio. You simply cannot do so at all.

My point is that if more people sent their kids to private school they would demand from them facilities similar if not better than those at the publics. I do not know of any public school or district that has recived a donation of $2.6M from two individuals specifically for the football stadium.

[SLCDad]

I understand, you moved to a place where hand grenades.......(just kidding)

For those of you who don't know, this week a 4th grader brought a hand grenade to school at Old Union Elementary School in the SLC school disctrict. The school was evacuated and the bomb squad was called. The grenade was hollow but the pin was still intact.

Sad, funny and true.

[climbingwalls24]

I haven't seen any ladies here . . . . and . . . . I'm wondering which posters you are calling "gentlemen"? That would be a stretch in a few cases. :D :D

ok, lemme rephrase: (sarcasm warning) guys, boys, and overreacting slc, evidence that computers are wrong. (sarcasm)

[RidgePride]

For those of you who don't know, this week a 4th grader brought a hand grenade to school at Old Union Elementary School in the SLC school disctrict. The school was evacuated and the bomb squad was called. The grenade was hollow but the pin was still intact.

Sad, funny and true.

He probably received a good stern talking to while the stunt was viewed as a pracitcal joke.

A MNW youngster would be branished a juvenile delinquent getting a head start on a life of thuggery.

[Chicago]

Old Union?

In Texas?

What's their nickname -- the Yankees?

[SLCDad]

Old Union?

In Texas?

What's their nickname -- the Yankees?Don't you know? Every nickname at every school in Southlake is Dragons.

[Cincy guy]

:laugh: :laugh: Old Union?

In Texas?

What's their nickname -- the Yankees?