Wrestling and the Herd Immunity

bdhof

Well-known member
How is Sweden doing now? About the same as the countries that went through lockdowns.
That depends on who you want to compare them to. Compared to their Nordic neighbors, not so well.
Deaths per million / Total Deaths
Norway 54 / 291
Sweden 605 / 6,122
Denmark 130 / 755
Finland 66 / 365
Iceland 70 / 24
So in deaths per million, they range between 8.6 x higher (Iceland) to 11.2 x higher (Norway).
 

Cjlewis01

Active member
That depends on who you want to compare them to. Compared to their Nordic neighbors, not so well.
Deaths per million / Total Deaths
Norway 54 / 291
Sweden 605 / 6,122
Denmark 130 / 755
Finland 66 / 365
Iceland 70 / 24
So in deaths per million, they range between 8.6 x higher (Iceland) to 11.2 x higher (Norway).
Just stating that may not he an apples to apples comparisons since we don't know the extent or total length of the total pandemic statistically.

Sweden has acknowledged they messed up initially and it severely hurt their at risk population.

Compare their second wave to others and they may end up being statistically the same by the end of this pandemic with less of an economic and other health impairment hit (suicide, depression, etc).

I also think Sweden has backed off from the idea of herd immunity and concentrated as keeping the at risk safe and learning to live their lives with certain protocols.

The totality of this and discussion about which decisions were right or wrong can't be determined until after the fact... Right now we are all performing our best educated guesses based off of current data.
 

bdhof

Well-known member
Just stating that may not he an apples to apples comparisons since we don't know the extent or total length of the total pandemic statistically.

Sweden has acknowledged they messed up initially and it severely hurt their at risk population.

Compare their second wave to others and they may end up being statistically the same by the end of this pandemic with less of an economic and other health impairment hit (suicide, depression, etc).

I also think Sweden has backed off from the idea of herd immunity and concentrated as keeping the at risk safe and learning to live their lives with certain protocols.

The totality of this and discussion about which decisions were right or wrong can't be determined until after the fact... Right now we are all performing our best educated guesses based off of current data.
Quite possibly the most intelligent post on this thread.
 

FirestoneFan

Well-known member
Here in my neck of the woods I don't know of one person who has tested positive or has had this dreaded virus. Maybe we all had it back in February and have recovered. I have a runny nose right now because I worked outside all day. Am I a positive case?
 

WGTJ

Active member
That depends on who you want to compare them to. Compared to their Nordic neighbors, not so well.
Deaths per million / Total Deaths
Norway 54 / 291
Sweden 605 / 6,122
Denmark 130 / 755
Finland 66 / 365
Iceland 70 / 24
So in deaths per million, they range between 8.6 x higher (Iceland) to 11.2 x higher (Norway).
Just stating that may not he an apples to apples comparisons since we don't know the extent or total length of the total pandemic statistically.

Sweden has acknowledged they messed up initially and it severely hurt their at risk population.

Compare their second wave to others and they may end up being statistically the same by the end of this pandemic with less of an economic and other health impairment hit (suicide, depression, etc).

I also think Sweden has backed off from the idea of herd immunity and concentrated as keeping the at risk safe and learning to live their lives with certain protocols.

The totality of this and discussion about which decisions were right or wrong can't be determined until after the fact... Right now we are all performing our best educated guesses based off of current data.
I haven't looked at it in quite some time, but the last time I did look Swedens economy took just as hard of a hit as others.
 

OCEagle

Well-known member
Given that no one said 2.4 BBBBBBillion Americans have contracted COVID, am I to assume that no one said "720 million women in the US...". Surely no one said that! I don't know - maybe someone did!

Not to get political, but I'd love for one person - or a group of people - to go back to <picks an arbitrary date> 1951 and listen to or read transcipts of presidential debate speeches in which candidates promise more workers and lower taxes. Then, adjusted for inflation of course, show the tax rate then and the tax rate now.

I'm willing to bet that our taxes have increased opposite to the promises made. And I hope I'm wrong on that.

ps: Go wrestling, let's have a season. I hope to see everyone on the mats. God bless the US Constitution and the republic we were provided.
First, I was being sarcastic and not attacking what you wrote.

Secondly, Joe Biden is the one that said 720,000 women would go back into the workforce under his tax policies. Given the US population in total is only 330M, I'd say Sleepy Joe was having another of his blank stare moments.

As for tax policies promised in campaign speeches, Trump did deliver on cutting taxes. Rates were dropped for individuals and corporations, Std. Deductions were made more beneficial for those that could not itemize - thereby adding to their tax cost reduction. Too many people I know decide if taxes dropped based on the refund they get in one year vs. the next year. They don't realize withholdings changed with the rate drops. Sure taxes went up in certain areas where the SALT deductions were limited. That had a big impact in the Northeast and the West Coast - democrat strongholds. That was not by mistake. It was done for a reason - and the reasoning was sound.

Done with the soapbox - and I just burned it in the fire pit, so it cannot be used again.
 

Cjlewis01

Active member
I haven't looked at it in quite some time, but the last time I did look Swedens economy took just as hard of a hit as others.
I've read mixed reports...

Here's an interesting one, although there are some saying the opposite. This was has the sources hyperlinked in the article which I liked.

 

OCEagle

Well-known member
I've read mixed reports...

Here's an interesting one, although there are some saying the opposite. This was has the sources hyperlinked in the article which I liked.

I'm glad you are doing the legwork on this. I didn't have the energy to dredge up all the recent reporting and science that has come out strongly against the effectiveness of lockdowns. At best, they delay the inevitable slightly - but not for long. It's a virus. It's going to be contagious and it's going to be around for a long time. The best we can hope for is to limit the damage and delay it as best we can until the vaccines are out. I was skeptical vaccines would do the job, but what I'm hearing now - the 2 by Pfizer and Moderna (both still in trials) are reportedly extremely effective. Let's hope there are no backslides. Too bad this didn't come out a couple weeks ago. The DJIA just hit a new high, although the stock prices for Pfizer are relatively unchanged. I've held that stock for a couple of years and was hoping to see a big jump up. Not happening. It closed at 40.67 way back on Jan. 15th, 2020 and closed today at 38.62. I bought it in several lots since 2014 at an average price of about $34. Not exactly killing it on an investment that should be paying off big. That was supposed to be my upside to living through this pandemic. Fail.
 

Cjlewis01

Active member
I'm glad you are doing the legwork on this. I didn't have the energy to dredge up all the recent reporting and science that has come out strongly against the effectiveness of lockdowns. At best, they delay the inevitable slightly - but not for long. It's a virus. It's going to be contagious and it's going to be around for a long time. The best we can hope for is to limit the damage and delay it as best we can until the vaccines are out. I was skeptical vaccines would do the job, but what I'm hearing now - the 2 by Pfizer and Moderna (both still in trials) are reportedly extremely effective. Let's hope there are no backslides. Too bad this didn't come out a couple weeks ago. The DJIA just hit a new high, although the stock prices for Pfizer are relatively unchanged. I've held that stock for a couple of years and was hoping to see a big jump up. Not happening. It closed at 40.67 way back on Jan. 15th, 2020 and closed today at 38.62. I bought it in several lots since 2014 at an average price of about $34. Not exactly killing it on an investment that should be paying off big. That was supposed to be my upside to living through this pandemic. Fail.
I really hope inovio comes along (I'm invested). Pfizer has to be stored and transported at -75 degrees Celsius which is incredibly difficult with nasty side effects and that 90% figure has not been peer reviewed yet...

Inovio is being held up by some bureaucratic bs on its phase 2/3 trials by the fda over questions about the device... they could be the first company to bring a DNA vaccine approved for human use. If you invest in them and make big money dont forget about me lol
 

OCEagle

Well-known member
I really hope inovio comes along (I'm invested). Pfizer has to be stored and transported at -75 degrees Celsius which is incredibly difficult with nasty side effects and that 90% figure has not been peer reviewed yet...

Inovio is being held up by some bureaucratic bs on its phase 2/3 trials by the fda over questions about the device... they could be the first company to bring a DNA vaccine approved for human use. If you invest in them and make big money dont forget about me lol
Correct on the Pfizer issue. The cold chain requirement is definitely an issue, but not insurmountable in the US. Much more difficult in a lot of countries outside the US where hot weather dominates (much of Asia, Africa, Central America, etc.) Maybe once it is being used I can light up a stogie wrapped in hundred dollar bills.... Inovio... thanks for the tip.. I'll remember where I heard it from first.
 

dessfan

Member
A new tangent for you all to ponder. I was walking down town Columbus when I came across Historical plaque 93-25 https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/wm1JYH_The_Breathing_Association_Marker_93_25

"The Breathing Association was founded in 1906 as the Tuberculosis Society under the leadership of public health advocate Carrie Nelson Black. The society provided nutrition, medical care, and sanitorium services to people who could not afford proper medical care. A tuberculosis dispensary was operated at 40 South Third Street in Columbus for Ohioans needing consultation and treatment. Tuberculosis, known as the White Plague, killed one out of nine persons in Columbus during the early 1900s. An Open Air School was established on Neil Avenue in 1913 for children in homes where there were one or more cases of tuberculosis. In 1931, the Nightingale Cottage was opened on Brice Road as a tuberculosis preventorium for children. As tuberculosis became controllable, the agency became focused on emerging lung health issues. Today, The Breathing Association continues as a leading resource on lung health issues and preventing lung disease. "

TB killed 1 of 9 people and they still held school for children. Have we grown soft? :unsure:
 

ASpecialOne

New member
A new tangent for you all to ponder. I was walking down town Columbus when I came across Historical plaque 93-25 https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/wm1JYH_The_Breathing_Association_Marker_93_25

"The Breathing Association was founded in 1906 as the Tuberculosis Society under the leadership of public health advocate Carrie Nelson Black. The society provided nutrition, medical care, and sanitorium services to people who could not afford proper medical care. A tuberculosis dispensary was operated at 40 South Third Street in Columbus for Ohioans needing consultation and treatment. Tuberculosis, known as the White Plague, killed one out of nine persons in Columbus during the early 1900s. An Open Air School was established on Neil Avenue in 1913 for children in homes where there were one or more cases of tuberculosis. In 1931, the Nightingale Cottage was opened on Brice Road as a tuberculosis preventorium for children. As tuberculosis became controllable, the agency became focused on emerging lung health issues. Today, The Breathing Association continues as a leading resource on lung health issues and preventing lung disease. "

TB killed 1 of 9 people and they still held school for children. Have we grown soft? :unsure:
"Grown soft" - have the technology to offer learning in different forms, that could eliminate unnecessary exposure/contact.

Either, or! :p
 
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