Wrestling and the Herd Immunity

I enjoy wrestling

Well-known member
Should we even worry about Covid and wrestling? Before you jump to a conclusion take a breath. All of the professional athletes are being tested and many positive results have come back. How is the health of those athletes? Why do we make a point to tell the public about infection but no information about how the athletes body reacted to virus. Jack Nicklaus had Covid and did ok. One of my best friends from high school just had Covid and didn't even know he had it. His wife still is in the stages of Covid infection. Chest tightness and a little cough, but is very tired. No fever for her and all of us are approaching 60. Can any Nation on this earth isolate this virus away? I'm starting to believe Sweden has the correct model.

As you post conflicting opinions please stop and think about the answer. Don't post just the problems, but post the multiple solutions.

 

bdhof

Well-known member
If I had a solution, I would be the smartest person in the world. That being said, here's a little info about Sweden. Caution alert! I read this on the internet so it must be true.

Sweden has the 6th highest death/capita rate (568/1M) in the world, behind Belgium, UK, Spain Peru and Italy (US is #8). If you were to compare Sweden to their Nordic neighbors, Denmark (106/1M), Finland (59/1M), and Norway (47/1M), they have a 5X to 10X higher death rate than these other countries. Now, they do appear to be over the worst (but no one is claiming herd immunity), if no 2nd wave hits them. So, that's good news. But to compare their strategy to ours has some problems.

Over half of Swedes live in single-person households, which makes it easier to do physical distancing. Compare this with the United States, where just 28 percent of adults live alone. And many Americans live in multigenerational households, where the new coronavirus can easily spread from young people to older adults.

The United States also has higher rates of chronic diseases that increase the risk of severe COVID-19. In Sweden, 13 percent of adults have obesity and 6.9 percent have diabetes, while 40 percent of American adults have obesity and 9.1 percent have diabetes.

And Sweden has very different healthcare than in the United States. When people are calling for the United States to “be more like Sweden” in its COVID-19 response, they may be ignoring the major differences in healthcare access and cost. For one thing, Swedes have government-funded universal healthcare. Contrast this with the 29 percent of American adults who are underinsured and 13 percent who are uninsured. Many of these people have untreated chronic health conditions that put them at greater risk from COVID-19.

The Swedish government even provides paid sick leave, which encourages people to stay home when they’re sick — a key step in slowing the spread of the new coronavirus. Parents are also paid to stay home to care for a sick child. In the United States, there’s no national paid sick leave requirement. And only 12 states and Washington, D.C., require companies and businesses to offer paid sick leave.
 

Bayside

Member
The Swedish government even provides paid sick leave, which encourages people to stay home when they’re sick — a key step in slowing the spread of the new coronavirus. Parents are also paid to stay home to care for a sick child. In the United States, there’s no national paid sick leave requirement. And only 12 states and Washington, D.C., require companies and businesses to offer paid sick leave.
For a lot of people the US government has paid them to stay home from work regardless of being sick or not!
 

Pope Francis 1

Well-known member
Based on Ohio (population 12,000,000) covid stats from 2 days ago......

total deaths in each age group
ages 0-19................. 2
ages 20-29............ 10
ages 30-39............ 25
ages 40-49............ 61
ages 50-59............ 222
(so if you're below age 60, you have a much better chance of dying in a traffic accident as opposed to covid)
ages 60-69............ 499
ages 70-79............ 871
ages 80+................ 1,825

median age of covid death in ohio........ 80
life expectancy in ohio............................ 77

As noted in an earlier post, those w preexisting conditions (obesity, diabetes, etc) are at a much higher risk than the general population.
Call me crazy but I'm now leaning towards letting those healthy and under age 40/50/60 live their lives (but stay smart). Docs are doing a much better job treating covid now that we've learned some things. We needed to buy some time in March & April for the health care system.
Protect the elderly and those w preexisting.

Finally, there are five (5) dimensions of health: physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, and social...... not one. I don't think it's realistic to ignore 4 of the 5 and think there won't be consequences.

(note: I’m the weird guy on the plane who puts on a mask if someone is hacking during flu season)

Bottom line........ regardless of Covid, I still hate Iowa and PSU!
 
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brianwr112

Well-known member
Here's another issue with kids....many don't know they have an underlying issue at that age. They go through a 5 minute "Physical" and whoever signs off for them to play. I'm sure it's happened but I can't recall in my own experience where a athlete was ruled out by something found in their "basic" physical.

The herd mentality will never be supported by anyone. The collateral damage is too high
 

bdhof

Well-known member
Based on Ohio (population 12,000,000) covid stats from 2 days ago......

total deaths in each age group
ages 0-19................. 2
ages 20-29............ 10
ages 30-39............ 25
ages 40-49............ 61
ages 50-59............ 222
(so if you're below age 60, you have a much better chance of dying in a traffic accident as opposed to covid)
ages 60-69............ 499
ages 70-79............ 871
ages 80+................ 1,825

median age of covid death in ohio........ 80
life expectancy in ohio............................ 77

As noted in an earlier post, those w preexisting conditions (obesity, diabetes, etc) are at a much higher risk than the general population.
Call me crazy but I'm now leaning towards letting those healthy and under age 40/50/60 live their lives (but stay smart). Docs are doing a much better job treating covid now that we've learned some things. We needed to buy some time in March & April for the health care system.
Protect the elderly and those w preexisting.

Finally, there are five (5) dimensions of health: physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, and social...... not one. I don't think it's realistic to ignore 4 of the 5 and think there won't be consequences.

(note: I’m the weird guy on the plane who puts on a mask if someone is hacking during flu season)

Bottom line........ regardless of Covid, I still hate Iowa and PSU!
Good data, Pope. Here's some more. About 1,100 Ohioans dies each year from traffic accidents, about 100/month. About 3,500 Ohioans have died from covid since April, about 875/month. So you're almost 9x more likely to die from covid than an auto accident. Of course, I'm ignoring age, and the death rate for covid is obviously much higher for 60+ and much lower for <60. I agree that kids and young adults do much better against the virus. But many/most of these kids and young adults have older adults whom they interact with. One last thing - just because someone doesn't die, doesn't mean they aren't harmed by getting covid. Many struggle for their lives but thankfully survive. Many will have lasting health issues after their battle w/ covid. The lucky ones are asymptomatic or have very mild symptoms, and thankfully there are many who fall into this category.

And I'm all on board with the 5 dimensions of health, and of course with our mutual disdain for IOWA and PSU.
 
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Pope Francis 1

Well-known member
I've never resorted to name calling and I'm not gonna call bdhof any names... even though he's a crooked liar!

Those under age 40 are 10x more likely of dying in a car accident as opposed to Covid.
Currently, Ohio has 655 traffic fatalities (about 55% under age 40 = 360 fatalities under age 40)
Covid numbers were 37 deaths under age 40.

Over age 65, you're much more likely to die of Covid than a car accident. And Covid will continue to spread, that’s what Covid does.

Covid hates the old and/or sick:
Ohio deaths from Covid over age 70............ 2,696
Ohio deaths from Covid under age 30................12
So let's focus on the older/sicker among us and let the younger folks live their lives.

What we agree on......
Protect the elderly and those w preexisting conditions including those you live with or interact with.
How to protect those at risk with no/little costs...... wash hands, social distance, wear a mask.
I also agree we needed to pull back in the spring to figure things out.

However, now I feel like we know more about the risks and each of us can make our decisions accordingly.
In good health and 63 years old, my wife and I enjoy going out for a bite and/or drink, but we go to outdoor venues. Likewise, I just had drinks w a group of old high school friends yesterday after work, but we sat outside. Also, my wife and I enjoy interacting with our adult children and grandkids, knowing the added risks. Just looking for the gov to share the risk involved (I don’t smoke or ride motorcycles) and I’ll make an informed decision.

Cars are meant to be driven, despite the risks... and life is meant to be lived!

median age of Covid death in ohio........ 80
life expectancy in ohio................................ 77

In closing, thanks to the thousands of folks who message me and tell me they like me much more than crooked bdhof!
 
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standup

Member
You are right original poster..."Why do we make a point to tell the public about infection but no information about how the athletes body reacted to virus." They never do the math on the media about the deaths. There are over 330 Million people in the US. 150k have died so far... But no one says this because it is politically incorrect. CNN and MSNBC are horrible!!
 

I enjoy wrestling

Well-known member
If I had a solution, I would be the smartest person in the world. That being said, here's a little info about Sweden. Caution alert! I read this on the internet so it must be true.

Sweden has the 6th highest death/capita rate (568/1M) in the world, behind Belgium, UK, Spain Peru and Italy (US is #8). If you were to compare Sweden to their Nordic neighbors, Denmark (106/1M), Finland (59/1M), and Norway (47/1M), they have a 5X to 10X higher death rate than these other countries. Now, they do appear to be over the worst (but no one is claiming herd immunity), if no 2nd wave hits them. So, that's good news. But to compare their strategy to ours has some problems.

Over half of Swedes live in single-person households, which makes it easier to do physical distancing. Compare this with the United States, where just 28 percent of adults live alone. And many Americans live in multigenerational households, where the new coronavirus can easily spread from young people to older adults.

The United States also has higher rates of chronic diseases that increase the risk of severe COVID-19. In Sweden, 13 percent of adults have obesity and 6.9 percent have diabetes, while 40 percent of American adults have obesity and 9.1 percent have diabetes.

And Sweden has very different healthcare than in the United States. When people are calling for the United States to “be more like Sweden” in its COVID-19 response, they may be ignoring the major differences in healthcare access and cost. For one thing, Swedes have government-funded universal healthcare. Contrast this with the 29 percent of American adults who are underinsured and 13 percent who are uninsured. Many of these people have untreated chronic health conditions that put them at greater risk from COVID-19.

The Swedish government even provides paid sick leave, which encourages people to stay home when they’re sick — a key step in slowing the spread of the new coronavirus. Parents are also paid to stay home to care for a sick child. In the United States, there’s no national paid sick leave requirement. And only 12 states and Washington, D.C., require companies and businesses to offer paid sick leave.
Care to look at the death rate for the last 60 days?
 

CoachHoversten

Active member
Good data, Pope. Here's some more. About 1,100 Ohioans dies each year from traffic accidents, about 100/month. About 3,500 Ohioans have died from covid since April, about 875/month. So you're almost 9x more likely to die from covid than an auto accident. Of course, I'm ignoring age, and the death rate for covid is obviously much higher for 60+ and much lower for <60. I agree that kids and young adults do much better against the virus. But many/most of these kids and young adults have older adults whom they interact with. One last thing - just because someone doesn't die, doesn't mean they aren't harmed by getting covid. Many struggle for their lives but thankfully survive. Many will have lasting health issues after their battle w/ covid. The lucky ones are asymptomatic or have very mild symptoms, and thankfully there are many who fall into this category.

And I'm all on board with the 5 dimensions of health, and of course with our mutual disdain for IOWA and PSU.
April through October is 7 months. 3500 / 7 is 500 per month, nowhere near 875. Still high, but nearly half of what you claimed.
 

bdhof

Well-known member
April through October is 7 months. 3500 / 7 is 500 per month, nowhere near 875. Still high, but nearly half of what you claimed.
Coach, I posted that August 6th, not a day or so ago. 3,500 / 4 (April, May, June July) = 875. Now, 3 months later, the death toll is about 5,500 and the per month has shrunk to 785. And the deaths over the last 3 months is now about 650. The good news is the death rate is going down, but still very high when compared to car accidents.
 

bdhof

Well-known member
Care to look at the death rate for the last 60 days?
I'm guessing you're talking about Sweden. Their deaths peaked at about 100/day back in early April. Now it's in the single digits, which is great news. Like much of Europe and the US, they are seeing a spike in cases. Hopefully, a spike in deaths won't follow. From the early days, doctors learned how to best treat Covid patients, which has driven down the death rates everywhere and is more great news.
 

I enjoy wrestling

Well-known member
I'm guessing you're talking about Sweden. Their deaths peaked at about 100/day back in early April. Now it's in the single digits, which is great news. Like much of Europe and the US, they are seeing a spike in cases. Hopefully, a spike in deaths won't follow. From the early days, doctors learned how to best treat Covid patients, which has driven down the death rates everywhere and is more great news.
They went with herd immunity
 
My dad in his 90s died the year before covid of flue turned bad. He had conditions. That has always been the case for thousands yearly. NOW all those are being folded into covid rankings. We cant trust these sloppy numbers on covid. I still don’t know a single person who has contracted the thing.
 

MPhillips

Well-known member
:rolleyes:
My neighbor got it from his grandkids who said it was, "fake news." He spent ten days in the hospital and another three weeks recuperating at home. At least thirty of my co-workers also got it. All ages. Some hospitalized some not. Everyone recovered.
 

OCEagle

Well-known member
My dad in his 90s died the year before covid of flue turned bad. He had conditions. That has always been the case for thousands yearly. NOW all those are being folded into covid rankings. We cant trust these sloppy numbers on covid. I still don’t know a single person who has contracted the thing.
That's a good point. Despite the panic created in large part by the media, it's almost impossible to believe that only about 3% of the entire US population has been documented to have contracted this virus over about a 9 month period of time. (I know others have likely contracted it but either had no symptoms or the symptoms were so mild they didn't bother to get checked out). If you asked the general population - most of which are clueless on facts - if they thought that more than 1/3rd of Americans had contracted the Covid virus - the likely answer would be yes. They would be off in their estimation by 10x.
 

cruiser_96

Well-known member
That's a good point. Despite the panic created in large part by the media, it's almost impossible to believe that only about 3% of the entire US population has been documented to have contracted this virus over about a 9 month period of time. (I know others have likely contracted it but either had no symptoms or the symptoms were so mild they didn't bother to get checked out). If you asked the general population - most of which are clueless on facts - if they thought that more than 1/3rd of Americans had contracted the Covid virus - the likely answer would be yes. They would be off in their estimation by 10x.
You do realize that it's a documented fact that nearly 2.4 billion American have contracted COVID, right???
 

OCEagle

Well-known member
You do realize that it's a documented fact that nearly 2.4 billion American have contracted COVID, right???
Gee, who said that? Same one that claimed 720 million women in the US would go back into the workforce under his tax policies?
 

OCEagle

Well-known member
I'm guessing you're talking about Sweden. Their deaths peaked at about 100/day back in early April. Now it's in the single digits, which is great news. Like much of Europe and the US, they are seeing a spike in cases. Hopefully, a spike in deaths won't follow. From the early days, doctors learned how to best treat Covid patients, which has driven down the death rates everywhere and is more great news.

They went with herd immunity
How is Sweden doing now? About the same as the countries that went through lockdowns.
 

cruiser_96

Well-known member
Gee, who said that? Same one that claimed 720 million women in the US would go back into the workforce under his tax policies?
Given that no one said 2.4 BBBBBBillion Americans have contracted COVID, am I to assume that no one said "720 million women in the US...". Surely no one said that! I don't know - maybe someone did!

Not to get political, but I'd love for one person - or a group of people - to go back to <picks an arbitrary date> 1951 and listen to or read transcipts of presidential debate speeches in which candidates promise more workers and lower taxes. Then, adjusted for inflation of course, show the tax rate then and the tax rate now.

I'm willing to bet that our taxes have increased opposite to the promises made. And I hope I'm wrong on that.

ps: Go wrestling, let's have a season. I hope to see everyone on the mats. God bless the US Constitution and the republic we were provided.
 
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WGTJ

Active member
Cruiser, I just want to point out that there is a big difference in starting that word with an "m" instead of a "b." I don't where those numbers come from, but switching those two letters changes a little bit (lol).
 

I enjoy wrestling

Well-known member
How is Sweden doing now? About the same as the countries that went through lockdowns.
I follow the death rates and Sweden is still leading the way on how to handle Covid. Look at the death rates for the last 90 days. Just Google Sweden Covid. The approach in Sweden is the Herd approach for healthy, age appropriate individuals. I got off the wrestling board and went to politics. This Virus is political and what's best for youngsters is being discarded. IMO.

We went thru a fall sports season and I can't recall anyone report a covid death of a youngest. The political agenda is what it is. I suggested that the high school wrestling system should be canned. Go to Clubs and move on. I have a couple of suggestions
Mat side weigh ins--- this is an attempt to keep the immunity system`working effectively
Stress to wrestlers importance of diet and rest. Log the wrestlers diet and rest
No fear factor. Educate the wrestlers about Covid and the importance to follow advice. Wrestlers are going to get Covid. Deal with it and let them know they are doing to be fine.

I'm headed back to politics
 

cruiser_96

Well-known member
Cruiser, I just want to point out that there is a big difference in starting that word with an "m" instead of a "b." I don't where those numbers come from, but switching those two letters changes a little bit (lol).
BAH!!!!! I should have typed "BBBBBBBBillion" in that second post as well. Will edit.
 
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