Would anyone step up to D1

cjb5656 said:
Let’s not lose sight of the fact he didn’t do much with the seven carries. He had a hard time getting anywhere that night without getting quickly stopped. The player that wasn’t utilized enough, IMO, was Witten. He was a mismatch for any defense.
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I agree with you on everything. The key point is 7 carries. 3 years of data including Avon 2022 shows us Dee would have eventually did what he always does, truck and run away from everyone. 2024 should be a good one!
 
Tarblooder_Rocketgrad said:
I agree with you on everything. The key point is 7 carries. 3 years of data including Avon 2022 shows us Dee would have eventually did what he always does, truck and run away from everyone. 2024 should be a good one!
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It will definitely be a good one! That’s why it’s never coming off Avon’s schedule unless Coach Ginn decides to end it. Anyone who missed the last two meetings missed some great football and the type of atmosphere that makes high school football so great.
 
cjb5656 said:
It will definitely be a good one! That’s why it’s never coming off Avon’s schedule unless Coach Ginn decides to end it. Anyone who missed the last two meetings missed some great football and the type of atmosphere that makes high school football so great.
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Coach loves playing Avon, that series is alive and well!
 
I’m all in favor of the option for any school to go D1 if they choose, but to make that the only option seems ridiculous.

Personally, I’m an advocate of the Open Division model some states have adopted which use an RPI model to rank the top 8 or so teams from the states top divisions (say D1-D4 in Ohio), and place those schools in a separate playoff. Most years you’d get a bulk of the teams from D1 and 2, with perhaps a TCC or Glenville if their regular season SOS is good enough.

Absent an Open Division model, I think any school should have the option of moving up a maximum of 2 divisions from their present enrollment (or going all the way up to D1). My guess is very few, if any, schools would opt up to D1 (despite the current sentiment that D2 is “tougher”). But some may opt to bump a division or two.
 
EaglePride01 said:
I’m all in favor of the option for any school to go D1 if they choose, but to make that the only option seems ridiculous.

Personally, I’m an advocate of the Open Division model some states have adopted which use an RPI model to rank the top 8 or so teams from the states top divisions (say D1-D4 in Ohio), and place those schools in a separate playoff. Most years you’d get a bulk of the teams from D1 and 2, with perhaps a TCC or Glenville if their regular season SOS is good enough.

Absent an Open Division model, I think any school should have the option of moving up a maximum of 2 divisions from their present enrollment (or going all the way up to D1). My guess is very few, if any, schools would opt up to D1 (despite the current sentiment that D2 is “tougher”). But some may opt to bump a division or two.
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As stated before I can't see Massillon Avon WW opting for D1 before Hoban, and possibly TCC. I could however see Hoban, and possibly TCC, (or the LaSalle from a few years ago) opting up before Massillon Avon WW. Or maybe they would all opt up together(?). Those are pretty much the only programs I think could even consider such a move. And probably not Avon either realistically. Let them win a D2 first for heaven's sake.

My thinking is if you have not won multiple titles (or more than 1) in relatively short period then it doesn't make sense to opt up a division.
 
TigerPaw said:
As stated before I can't see Massillon Avon WW opting for D1 before Hoban, and possibly TCC. I could however see Hoban, and possibly TCC, (or the LaSalle from a few years ago) opting up before Massillon Avon WW. Or maybe they would all opt up together(?). Those are pretty much the only programs I think could even consider such a move. And probably not Avon either realistically. Let them win a D2 first for heaven's sake.

My thinking is if you have not won multiple titles (or more than 1) in relatively short period then it doesn't make sense to opt up a division.
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Why would them opting in make it more enticing for Massillon or whoever to do so also?
 
MassillonTigers3 said:
Why would them opting in make it more enticing for Massillon or whoever to do so also?
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I didn’t say that. I just said they (Hoban 1 TCC 2) would and should be the first 2 to consider such a move. I personally would not without another title or 2. (Speaking for the 3 publics).
 
TigerPaw said:
I didn’t say that. I just said they (Hoban 1 TCC 2) would and should be the first 2 to consider such a move. I personally would not without another title or 2. (Speaking for the 3 publics).
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Okay, I interpreted the “all opt up together” wrong.

The more I think about it the more I think that very few programs, if any, would opt up for football. Just doesn’t make much sense unless you’re more interested in proving you have big balls than winning championships lol
 
MassillonTigers3 said:
Okay, I interpreted the “all opt up together” wrong.

The more I think about it the more I think that very few programs, if any, would opt up for football. Just doesn’t make much sense unless you’re more interested in proving you have big balls than winning championships lol
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Maybe coming off a 3-peat or something like that. Programs with nothing left to prove in their division. Pretty short list, if one at all.
 
EaglePride01 said:
Personally, I’m an advocate of the Open Division model some states have adopted which use an RPI model to rank the top 8 or so teams from the states top divisions (say D1-D4 in Ohio), and place those schools in a separate playoff.
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Absolutely not. This takes perhaps 4 teams who would have won a title in their original division and told them they now have to fight it out for a single title, while simultaneously bestowing a charity title on 4 different teams.
 
Oil Filter said:
Absolutely not. This takes perhaps 4 teams who would have won a title in their original division and told them they now have to fight it out for a single title, while simultaneously bestowing a charity title on 4 different teams.
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The Max Prep top 8 were Massillon, Ed, Hoban, TCC, Glenville, Moeller, Marion Local and Avon. The D1 runner up Springfield was 11th.

5 of the top 8 won a state title.
 
TigerPaw said:
Why not first allow the opportunity to bump up to D3, or D2? The only choice is D1??? That’s what gets me.
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IMO, this new rule is not about football, although they are free to make the jump. It is the other sports, specifically basketball, where a school can put together a dominant team even with the smallest enrollment.
 
cjb5656 said:
It will definitely be a good one! That’s why it’s never coming off Avon’s schedule unless Coach Ginn decides to end it. Anyone who missed the last two meetings missed some great football and the type of atmosphere that makes high school football so great.
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Eastside vs Westside with a whole lot of respect between the two programs. Favorite game of the year, always a packed house too.
 
After sleeping on it I hope Glenville does it. Nothing left to prove in D4. That gives your guys 7-10 games of good film compared to the 6-7 they get now. A state title really isnt that inportant especially now that you got 2. Also just want Perkins and Stuebenville fans to meet each other lmao
 
MassillonTigers3 said:
So, yes you can imagine how we saw it as comical that they attributed the loss to Chip being not 100% while they cut Massillon no slack the previous year when the all time leading rusher and scorer broke his ankle the week before the championship lol
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I don't ever get into this well the result of a game would have been different if player x would have played or player x would have been 100%. You play with you got. Injuries are part of the game. Its a luck factor. If you say my team would have won if not for player Injuries there is no way of ever knowing that because your talking about a hypothetical situation.
 
Yappi said:
IMO, this new rule is not about football, although they are free to make the jump. It is the other sports, specifically basketball, where a school can put together a dominant team even with the smallest enrollment.
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Well it is the football forum but yes, that seems to becoming clearer now.

I follow basketball a little and am aware of Richmond Hts (or St. V with Lebron for example) but not the other sports well enough to have a strong opinion. So I do not know of other lower division powerhouses, in every sport, boys and girls, that are consistently ranked higher than most top D1s. If that is a thing, then I suppose they should get the opportunity.
 
TigerPaw said:
As stated before I can't see Massillon Avon WW opting for D1 before Hoban, and possibly TCC. I could however see Hoban, and possibly TCC, (or the LaSalle from a few years ago) opting up before Massillon Avon WW. Or maybe they would all opt up together(?). Those are pretty much the only programs I think could even consider such a move. And probably not Avon either realistically. Let them win a D2 first for heaven's sake.

My thinking is if you have not won multiple titles (or more than 1) in relatively short period then it doesn't make sense to opt up a division.
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I would think that maybe a group of these D2 elites would have to collude before any single team would make that jump.
 
Crimson and Black said:
I would think that maybe a group of these D2 elites would have to collude before any single team would make that jump.
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Kind of a "hey you go first" deal, huh? Lol.

Seriously though if Hoban or TCC wanted to do that I don't think they would necessarily want Massillon (or WW or Avon) to also. Or vice versa. If Massillon opted up they would be perfectly fine if Hoban and TCC didn't. Getting past TCC, Hoban, AND St. Ed in the playoffs would be a tall order to say the least.
 
TigerPaw said:
You can’t compare the enrollment gap that existed in order to keep an even # in each division. You wouldn’t know anything about facing a school > double your enrollment.

The bigger point is why extend the offer to Avon looking for their first, but not the most dominant programs in their division in Ohio history??? Doesn’t make sense to me.
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You got me curious about the plight of the smaller DI schools. Using OHSAA 2023 division breakdowns I did some quick number crunching. The largest adjusted boys enrollment last year was 1509, the smallest DI school had only 620 boys. I was trying to get a perspective on building a team with only a measly 6 hundred and some boys to draw from. I decided to compare the 11 players on the field to the available boys listed for that school. I realize this is not perfect, but ran with what info I could come across from 2023. I found it kind of interesting.
largest - smallest
DI = 1509 - 620
11 = .7% = 1.7% - 1% difference between largest school to smallest

DII = 618 - 385
11 = 1.7% = 2.8% - 1.1% diff

DIII = 383 - 274
11 = 2.8% = 4% - 1.2% diff

DIV = 273 - 206
11 = 4% = 5.3% - 1.3% diff

DV = 203 - 158
11 = 5.4% = 6.9% - 1.5% diff

DVI = 157 - 115
11 = 6.3% = 9.5% - 3.2% diff

DVII = 114 - 27
11 = 9..6% = 40.7% - 31.1% diff

Even with DI having twice the enrollment in the larger schools, if you figure their percentage of total male enrollment that is represented by the 11 boys on the field is still closer than any other division.

Maybe a little more respect is due to the pee wee divisions when you consider what percentage of their total enrollment is represented by the 11 boys on the field.
 
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I'd love to see Glenville compete in DI. It would be so great to see the anti-Glenville people cry if the Tarblooders win it all
 
Just an observer here, but I find it hard to believe that anyone would voluntarily move up a division to compete against better teams.

Wouldn't teams rather have an easier chance to win a state title?
 
It will all come down to the prestige of the D1 title. Make the trophy bigger. Play the game at a special time. Do something to make it more significant than the other 6 divisions. Then people will opt in.
 
zski71 said:
With the expansion of playoffs in other sports, it looks like OHSAA is going to conduct a vote of members that would allow a school to opt into D1 only. I could see this happening in other sports, but would any school choose this for football.?
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Yes. Massillon Effect
 
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