World Athletics Championships

SLS

Well-known member
Help me out, somebody. What technology is used to determine relay splits? Why are the first runners' splits a few tenths slower than what their expected open 100 times would be? I get that the first runner doesn't have a flying start.
 
Last edited:

limabean

Active member
Help me out, somebody. What technology is used to determine relay splits? Why are the first runners' splits a few tenths slower than what their expected open 100 times would be? I get that the first runner doesn't have a flying start.
I don't know the technology to determine splits but the reason the 1st runner's splits are slower is exactly what you said - they don't have a flying start. They start from a stationary position. They explained that during the world championships broadcast at one point.
 

Altor

Well-known member
Help me out, somebody. What technology is used to determine relay splits? Why are the first runners' splits a few tenths slower than what their expected open 100 times would be? I get that the first runner doesn't have a flying start.
I don't know the answers to your questions with any degree of certainty, but I can give you some thoughts that might explain the data you are seeing.

1. Even if you don't have a timing camera at each exchange zone (and you'd really need one in each lane as well), you could count the frames in a video feed and multiply them by the framerate to get a time that is "good enough" for the graphics you are seeing above. You could also just have a bunch of people with stopwatches in their hands. Just because the data is in hundredths doesn't mean it's FAT.
2. Where are the splits being started/stopped? Is it at the so called "scratch lines" (which would be point that is exactly 300m, 200m, and 100m from the finish line, or is it when the baton is exchanged? Does running the curve vs running the straight affect their speed?
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
Switching back to the 4 x 400m relay, Diggs was the only one who ran in both the qualifying round and finals. An interesting story revolves around Allyson Felix who was retiring this year and had left the meet thinking her career was over. She was eating hot wings and drinking a root beer float when the team called her asking her to come back and help the 4 x 400 team qualify to the finals. Always the team player, she did just that by flying back to Eugene and running the second leg and enabling the relay to make it to the finals which had three different runners than those who had qualified. Thus seven different girls got gold medals in that relay and Felix got her 20th medal at age 36, her fourteenth gold, more than any other runner in the history of the meet.

1658933165180.png
 
Last edited:

CC Track Fan

Well-known member
Switching back to the 4 x 400m relay, Diggs was the only one who ran in both the qualifying round and finals. An interesting story revolves around Allyson Felix who was retiring this year and had left the meet thinking her career was over. She was eating hot wings and drinking a root beer float when the team called her asking her to come back and help the 4 x 400 team qualify to the finals. Always the team player, she did just that by flying back to Eugene and running the second leg and enabling the relay to make it to the finals which had three different runners than those who had qualified. Thus seven different girls got gold medals in that relay and Felix got her 20th medal at age 36, her fourteenth gold, more than any other runner in the history of the meet.

View attachment 31969
Allyson Felix is retiring? Somebody should let NBC know that. ;)
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!

Allyson Felix ends her worlds career with a record 20 medals​

Felix, 36, was already the most decorated U.S. track and field athlete when she announced she would retire after the 2022 season. She's also won more world championships medals, and more gold, than any other athlete.
 

gatornation

Active member
Obviously prices are ridiculous right now. I flew out to Eugene last Fall and it was $354. Not bad considering the length of flight with one layover.
 

JAVMAN83

Well-known member
I think those costs are affecting the now on-going Junior Olympics out in California. I've noticed a dearth of entrants from Ohio so far. I've also seen a real lack of competition by the top notch of Ohio's talent during this summer's meets. I hope this is financially related, and not generationally so. Maybe it's just my perception of my own era from 40 years ago, but maybe some of it has been a Covid-related hangover of the past couple years. I don't know.
 

Rohbino

Well-known member
Please let’s not turn this forum into letsrun. I enjoy posting here.

Nooks, you made, by your own admission, unfounded allegations of cheating. When you do that people will get mad. Some will call you on it. It‘s not ok. Not at all.

Congrats to the American women (and to Abby in particular) for a great gold medal race In the 4x100. Fifth fastest of all time. Fastest on American soil.

Abby really has improved every year she has competed in track. She won the state meet as a freshman, and was 1.2 seconds faster by her senior year. Now she is almost a second faster than as a HS senior. Last year’s achilles injury was tough, and may have cost her a spot in the Olympics. But she has been through setbacks before, and I was confident she’d have a good year this year. It has been great.
Thank you for posting, Mathking. Your comments are more diplomatic than what I posted and I should have had more restraint.

Perhaps I overreacted but I get a bit tired of having unfounded accusations tossed around so easily. It is not good for the sport. I am not naive enough to believe that doping doesn't take place. I've been around athletics for too long and know that it happens. That said, the Jamaican women have been strong in the sprints for a long time and have never been suspected of using PEDs. Additionally, they are all tested a lot. And because they perform at a high level, they are likely tested more often than many other athletes.

Shericka Jackson is a generational talent. Before she specialized in the 100 & 200 she was accomplished in the 400. With her 100 speed and her 400 endurance, her performances at 200 are not surprising to me.

ETH is one of the GOATs of women's sprinting. She is a 5-time Olympic champion and a 4-time Diamond League champion. I have never once heard anyone suspect her of competing as a gender other than her birth gender.

Reading comments that call ETH's gender into question along with the other comments alluding to PED use just rubbed me the wrong way, is all. Those accusations are tossed around too easily today. Any top performance is immediately called into question. While there are athletes that have performed at a level that is seemingly unrealistic, my earlier mention of Lance Armstrong is probably the most glaring illustration of that along with the East German athletes that benefitted from state-sponsored doping programs, I would be surprised if the Jamaican women were not clean.

Enough of all of that. I am looking forward to what Abby can do against Shericka Jackson and the other Jamaican women when she doesn't have a long collegiate season behind her where she has competed 50-60 times. Abby had to peak multiple times throughout the season whereas many of the professionals that she ran against at the USATF and WC meets did not have as rigorous of a schedule and had an easier route to qualifying for the WC. All of the collegiate athletes that competed at the WC were fantastic and the future of T&F in the States looks promising.
 

mathking

Well-known member
Thank you for posting, Mathking. Your comments are more diplomatic than what I posted and I should have had more restraint.

Perhaps I overreacted but I get a bit tired of having unfounded accusations tossed around so easily. It is not good for the sport. I am not naive enough to believe that doping doesn't take place. I've been around athletics for too long and know that it happens. That said, the Jamaican women have been strong in the sprints for a long time and have never been suspected of using PEDs. Additionally, they are all tested a lot. And because they perform at a high level, they are likely tested more often than many other athletes.

Shericka Jackson is a generational talent. Before she specialized in the 100 & 200 she was accomplished in the 400. With her 100 speed and her 400 endurance, her performances at 200 are not surprising to me.

ETH is one of the GOATs of women's sprinting. She is a 5-time Olympic champion and a 4-time Diamond League champion. I have never once heard anyone suspect her of competing as a gender other than her birth gender.

Reading comments that call ETH's gender into question along with the other comments alluding to PED use just rubbed me the wrong way, is all. Those accusations are tossed around too easily today. Any top performance is immediately called into question. While there are athletes that have performed at a level that is seemingly unrealistic, my earlier mention of Lance Armstrong is probably the most glaring illustration of that along with the East German athletes that benefitted from state-sponsored doping programs, I would be surprised if the Jamaican women were not clean.

Enough of all of that. I am looking forward to what Abby can do against Shericka Jackson and the other Jamaican women when she doesn't have a long collegiate season behind her where she has competed 50-60 times. Abby had to peak multiple times throughout the season whereas many of the professionals that she ran against at the USATF and WC meets did not have as rigorous of a schedule and had an easier route to qualifying for the WC. All of the collegiate athletes that competed at the WC were fantastic and the future of T&F in the States looks promising.
I understand the anger. Very much. For what it is worth, it seems as though the Jamaicans are as friendly and fun off-camera as on. I too am looking forward to watching Abby develop over the next few years. It seems as though the Americans (and the Nigerians) are developing a really good next generation of women sprinters. And the Jamaican women show no signs of slowing down just yet. Should make for excellent races in 2023, 2024 and 2025.
 

nooks

Well-known member
Thank you for posting, Mathking. Your comments are more diplomatic than what I posted and I should have had more restraint.

Perhaps I overreacted but I get a bit tired of having unfounded accusations tossed around so easily. It is not good for the sport. I am not naive enough to believe that doping doesn't take place. I've been around athletics for too long and know that it happens. That said, the Jamaican women have been strong in the sprints for a long time and have never been suspected of using PEDs. Additionally, they are all tested a lot. And because they perform at a high level, they are likely tested more often than many other athletes.

Shericka Jackson is a generational talent. Before she specialized in the 100 & 200 she was accomplished in the 400. With her 100 speed and her 400 endurance, her performances at 200 are not surprising to me.

ETH is one of the GOATs of women's sprinting. She is a 5-time Olympic champion and a 4-time Diamond League champion. I have never once heard anyone suspect her of competing as a gender other than her birth gender.

Reading comments that call ETH's gender into question along with the other comments alluding to PED use just rubbed me the wrong way, is all. Those accusations are tossed around too easily today. Any top performance is immediately called into question. While there are athletes that have performed at a level that is seemingly unrealistic, my earlier mention of Lance Armstrong is probably the most glaring illustration of that along with the East German athletes that benefitted from state-sponsored doping programs, I would be surprised if the Jamaican women were not clean.

Enough of all of that. I am looking forward to what Abby can do against Shericka Jackson and the other Jamaican women when she doesn't have a long collegiate season behind her where she has competed 50-60 times. Abby had to peak multiple times throughout the season whereas many of the professionals that she ran against at the USATF and WC meets did not have as rigorous of a schedule and had an easier route to qualifying for the WC. All of the collegiate athletes that competed at the WC were fantastic and the future of T&F in the States looks promising.
The content & subject of my original post is long gone. You wanted to make this personal between you and me...and you have succeeded. Just be glad that my overreaction is here, rather than the real world.
 
Last edited:

Rohbino

Well-known member
I too am looking forward to watching Abby develop over the next few years. It seems as though the Americans (and the Nigerians) are developing a really good next generation of women sprinters. And the Jamaican women show no signs of slowing down just yet. Should make for excellent races in 2023, 2024 and 2025.
One of the many impressive aspects of Abby’s development is the range that she has. She is similar to Allyson Felix in that regard. Hopefully her career is as long as fruitful Felix’s. Steiner & Jackson are also a lot alike in their range but also in their power. Felix is more of a sprinter with polished technique and seemingly expends very little effort. Her speed is deceptive. That form and polish is the result of a nearly 20 year long professional career. Abby and Jackson are power runners that are still developing.

Abby’s range will serve her well for relay duties on National teams. She should get a lot of opportunities due to her range, much the same way that Felix has. I am hoping that Abby runs an open 400 at some point in 2023. With her previous sub-49 relays legs it is feasible that she could turn a low to mid 49.

Exciting times are ahead for Abby. Congrats on playing a role in her early development.
 

JAVMAN83

Well-known member
Felix's range and longevity are something I think many sprinters wish they'd have. One thing about Felix' running technique is that she did have a "hitch" in her run as she apparently favored one leg over another. It is noticeable, much more so than almost all other sprinters I've watched over the last 45 years. I do wish she had improved more, though, over her HS best of 22.11 @ Mexico City's 7000+ foot altitude.
 

Rohbino

Well-known member
I do wish she had improved more, though, over her HS best of 22.11 @ Mexico City's 7000+ foot altitude.
When only taking the Mexico City altitude into account and no wind data, Felix's 22.11 equivalates to approximately a 22.34 basic. She is the owner of a lifetime PR of 21.69 which is good for the number 5 US all-time and the number 11 world all-time. So while her improvment wasn't as marked as some, it was still quite impressive.

Felix ends her career with 7 Olympic gold medals, 3 silver medals, and a bronze medal. She has won 14 world championships, and is a 3 time Diamond League champion. Those are rarefied accomplishments that we may not see again.
 

ESPN 990

Active member
When only taking the Mexico City altitude into account and no wind data, Felix's 22.11 equivalates to approximately a 22.34 basic. She is the owner of a lifetime PR of 21.69 which is good for the number 5 US all-time and the number 11 world all-time. So while her improvment wasn't as marked as some, it was still quite impressive.

Felix ends her career with 7 Olympic gold medals, 3 silver medals, and a bronze medal. She has won 14 world championships, and is a 3 time Diamond League champion. Those are rarefied accomplishments that we may not see again.
I was there in Eugene when Allyson ran her 21.69 in the 200 in 2012 Trials before London.. There was a collective gasp by the crowd when she came out of the turn. It was quite literally "breathtaking." Of course, she won gold in London 5 weeks later, and it was sort of a matter-of-fact, expected type performance. No such gasp this time. She's been on this stage for so long that it's sort of easy to forget just how dominant she was in her prime and on her best day. Heavens, she's still world-class and that day in Eugene was 10 years ago! I feel so lucky to have been there in both places and to have caught -- of all her amazing days -- her most amazing. Who knows what she may have run that day had someone been in her same zip code.
 
.
Top