Will XC happen this fall?

This week our school is asking for a plan to stagger the starts of the two small(8 to10 teams) XC events we host.
Can this be fairly done to achieve a reliable team score?
I want to tell them that if they allow 22 guys to jump on football, there is no reason to alter the races.
 

tmk

Member
While certainly not the preferred option, Cross country skiing has used interval starts for as long as I can remember.

This article discussed how that might work, and why interval starts might be better than wave starts (another option) for XC races

 
Maybe we will have to be happy will unreliable team scores till Championships just to be happy we have XC!
If they are asking you about 8-10 teams, how are the Super meets going to exist?
 
Tmk, thank you for the suggestion, I read the article and actually am looking forward to attempting it, if necessary. Repeated course sections will be tricky for our site if the interval is very large. Some honor system running may be required
 

mathking

Active member
I used to XC ski competitively, and almost always with interval starts. It would be my choice absent the pandemic but it is vastly preferable to no season. And it creates it’s own racing dynamic.
 

5x26

Member
Why are we worried about staggering starts? If we stop acting like kids are lepers, and take the virus for what EVERY account it is, move on and let the kids be kids, non contact outdoor sport is about as good as it gets.
 
Ivy League ready to announce Wed that they are moving their Fall sports to Spring. Let the dominoes start to fall. Reminder that the Ivy League was the first to cancel their basketball tournament.
 

grange45

Active member
Ivy League ready to announce Wed that they are moving their Fall sports to Spring. Let the dominoes start to fall. Reminder that the Ivy League was the first to cancel their basketball tournament.
It’s not comparable to high school sports. Almost 7/8 of college athletes are one sport athletes. Having high schools pick fall sports over spring has dire consequences for the future of high school sports.
 

mathking

Active member
It’s not comparable to high school sports. Almost 7/8 of college athletes are one sport athletes. Having high schools pick fall sports over spring has dire consequences for the future of high school sports.
This is very true. And we should be honest, “fall sports” means football. The other sports would never cause anyone to think about taking away a second spring of sports in order to not miss a fall season.
 

Running Man 101

Active member
Madman, on the vaccine front, I have a couple of former students and a couple of college friends who are all working directly or indirectly on vaccines now. Plus a few more in epidemiology and pharma research in general who all think we will have a vaccine eventually. They said that there has never been this many people, this much money and this much computing power thrown at finding and producing a vaccine. There are lots of viruses with vaccines, and those are mostly the more serious viruses, where finding a vaccine was more imperative.

That said, we also need to develop affordable rapid testing. We could largely control it now if we had a 20 minute test like for flu or step. You identify those who are sick and they isolate. It would still be a danger, but not a fundamentally alter the course of society kind of problem. But that would also require people to self-quarantine if they get it or are exposed, which seems somewhat unlikely in the current environment.

It is also worth noting that polls show a lot of people (20-25%, maybe more) say they will refuse to use a vaccine once one is developed.
Would like to believe one can be developed. The problem is they can only be developed for a very stable virus (tertiary 3d structure) and these coronavirus molecules slowly evolve, which is why none has been developed before. Read a recent UK medical article they are concerned if they will have the proper environment to test the efficacy of one.

The latest calculation I saw said we are over 50% exposure now in the country. Some limited heard resistance will start around 60% if it hasn't already.
 
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psycho_dad

Well-known member
I was thinking about the staggered starts. How interesting that would be as far as strategy? Do you run your fastest guy first and hope others over run trying to catch him? Or, do you run a slower runner up front and then have your fastest chase?
 

grange45

Active member
Really, Dewine needs to explain why he’s okay with pee wee summer sports to compete with basically no restrictions where all the kids are running around everywhere and jumping on the ball like it’s a football with ten other kids when it it comes their way, however telling high school sports you have to have every kid test negative for the virus before competing along with 100 other restrictions.

None of it makes sense unless you feel that he has a hidden agenda for ohsaa sports.
 
I was thinking about the staggered starts. How interesting that would be as far as strategy? Do you run your fastest guy first and hope others over run trying to catch him? Or, do you run a slower runner up front and then have your fastest chase?
Our school is leaning towards the wave starts instead of the interval starts like Nordic Skiing. All teams first runner, wait one minute, then second, etc.
I haven't heard a strategy for getting the other teams on board, or even if the OHSAA will allow this type of racing, but I agree with you it could be very interesting, and maybe just as fun.
 
Our school is leaning towards the wave starts instead of the interval starts like Nordic Skiing. All teams first runner, wait one minute, then second, etc.
I haven't heard a strategy for getting the other teams on board, or even if the OHSAA will allow this type of racing, but I agree with you it could be very interesting, and maybe just as fun.
Make sure you are talking to the timing companies before you start making assumptions as to how you think it should be done. Remember you have officials that would have to get your start line ready each start and making sure you have all the ones, twos, etc is not going to work. Wave starts almost have to be team waves. not saying it cannot be done just saying you have to think about who will be lining them up each time. If I have all number 1 on the line then you can only have 10 teams at a time if using a chip start (that is another problem that I will tell you about shortly). If using a gun start (each group takes off at a specified time) then you can start all teams ones at once. The problem with wave starts is when a kid misses his/her start time and now the coach wants to get it changed according to when they actually started and it becomes a nightmare for anyone scoring and timing these events.
Chip time starts become a problem because now you can only start about 5-10 at a time to cross the start mat every few seconds and if you have a missed read at that start you now have a runner with a time that is not even close to actual. The other problem is that there are not many timers that have enough equipment to run a start and finish with all of their events they may have in a weekend. Road race timers might have the equipment but they are going to be busier this fall with all the races that moved to that time.

In reality I feel our best bet for this fall is to limit races to the government max for gatherings (200-250) for each race. No corral at end of race just an opening for athletes to go back to their camps. Next thing is starting line and it needs 6' between each team and each box needs to be bigger to allow team to spread out.
I can tell you that as of now the preseason meet will have larger start boxes with gaps between and multiple corrals to catch a group and then move to next corral when so many are in a corral.

We really need to hope we have a season as a friend of mine (largest timer in california) was just informed last night that their hs association is most likely cancelling all of fall sports there.
 

Running Man 101

Active member
Make sure you are talking to the timing companies before you start making assumptions as to how you think it should be done. Remember you have officials that would have to get your start line ready each start and making sure you have all the ones, twos, etc is not going to work. Wave starts almost have to be team waves. not saying it cannot be done just saying you have to think about who will be lining them up each time. If I have all number 1 on the line then you can only have 10 teams at a time if using a chip start (that is another problem that I will tell you about shortly). If using a gun start (each group takes off at a specified time) then you can start all teams ones at once. The problem with wave starts is when a kid misses his/her start time and now the coach wants to get it changed according to when they actually started and it becomes a nightmare for anyone scoring and timing these events.
Chip time starts become a problem because now you can only start about 5-10 at a time to cross the start mat every few seconds and if you have a missed read at that start you now have a runner with a time that is not even close to actual. The other problem is that there are not many timers that have enough equipment to run a start and finish with all of their events they may have in a weekend. Road race timers might have the equipment but they are going to be busier this fall with all the races that moved to that time.

In reality I feel our best bet for this fall is to limit races to the government max for gatherings (200-250) for each race. No corral at end of race just an opening for athletes to go back to their camps. Next thing is starting line and it needs 6' between each team and each box needs to be bigger to allow team to spread out.
I can tell you that as of now the preseason meet will have larger start boxes with gaps between and multiple corrals to catch a group and then move to next corral when so many are in a corral.

We really need to hope we have a season as a friend of mine (largest timer in california) was just informed last night that their hs association is most likely cancelling all of fall sports there.
Limiting the race size and preventing back-ups sounds like a sane plan to me. May need to add more actual races, but that is fine. The way that Thomas-Worthington runs their invite sounds about right (Varsity and then 9/10 + 11/12 races).
 

xcandtrack

New member
In reality I feel our best bet for this fall is to limit races to the government max for gatherings (200-250) for each race.
I'd hate to burst your bubble but I doubt some bureaucrat in the country health dept. is going to only count runners in individual races as the gathering size. They will be looking at the number of people at the event on site, athletes, coaches, fans, officials... So your race of 200-250 runner will bring a total of 400-500 to a site.

Since XC for the most part relies on public spaces, permit to be used for the events it will be up to these entities whether or not we have facilities to have a seasons. As of right now I know of no facilities that are typically used for meets that are issuing permits. Not a single 2020 event on Baumspage.
 

grange45

Active member
Everyone...just wear a mask and tweet #IWantaSeason. We’ll get there.

I really can see Dewine saying “hey...everyone played the social media game and now we can return to competing in sports in the fall”.
 

grange45

Active member
Make sure you are talking to the timing companies before you start making assumptions as to how you think it should be done. Remember you have officials that would have to get your start line ready each start and making sure you have all the ones, twos, etc is not going to work. Wave starts almost have to be team waves. not saying it cannot be done just saying you have to think about who will be lining them up each time. If I have all number 1 on the line then you can only have 10 teams at a time if using a chip start (that is another problem that I will tell you about shortly). If using a gun start (each group takes off at a specified time) then you can start all teams ones at once. The problem with wave starts is when a kid misses his/her start time and now the coach wants to get it changed according to when they actually started and it becomes a nightmare for anyone scoring and timing these events.
Chip time starts become a problem because now you can only start about 5-10 at a time to cross the start mat every few seconds and if you have a missed read at that start you now have a runner with a time that is not even close to actual. The other problem is that there are not many timers that have enough equipment to run a start and finish with all of their events they may have in a weekend. Road race timers might have the equipment but they are going to be busier this fall with all the races that moved to that time.

In reality I feel our best bet for this fall is to limit races to the government max for gatherings (200-250) for each race. No corral at end of race just an opening for athletes to go back to their camps. Next thing is starting line and it needs 6' between each team and each box needs to be bigger to allow team to spread out.
I can tell you that as of now the preseason meet will have larger start boxes with gaps between and multiple corrals to catch a group and then move to next corral when so many are in a corral.

We really need to hope we have a season as a friend of mine (largest timer in california) was just informed last night that their hs association is most likely cancelling all of fall sports there.
Also finishtiming...how are schools going to pay your costs when there is no spectators in the stands and they get almost nothing at the gates? I suggest getting a televised pay per view ready for your services like I’m projecting college and pro sports to do to make some revenue.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
This is going to be like a dream come true for a lot of coaches. Train Train Train Train Train Race Train Train Train Train Train Train Train Train Train.

Going to have to dust off Dual meets.

This is going to be such a fun year for kids. Seems like schools have plans all perfected to get the kids back in school safely. I've been pouring through all the information that the Summit County Board of Health has been putting out on how to keep myself, my family and everyone else safe and healthy. The Cross Country specific guidelines seemed well thought out and must have been put together by someone that really knows the sport and all aspects of training and racing and how meets are conducted and managed, or at least had a lot of input from cross country people. Have all the other County Health departments around the state put their guidelines out yet? Wonder if there are any issues that might need to be ironed out or tweaked a tad between counties? Ahhh, there is plenty of time for that.

We did a good job of flattening the curve (At least to Woodridge CVNP standards) I'm sure we can do it again.

What an exciting time to be alive. I don't know if I will wear my "Make America Great Again" mask today or my "Please Make America Great Again" mask. Or my "Oh Dear God, Please Please Please Make America Great Again!!!" mask. Trump 2020 mask. I think I'll go with my "Hindsight is 2016" mask.
 

Running Man 101

Active member
This is going to be like a dream come true for a lot of coaches. Train Train Train Train Train Race Train Train Train Train Train Train Train Train Train.

Going to have to dust off Dual meets.

This is going to be such a fun year for kids. Seems like schools have plans all perfected to get the kids back in school safely. I've been pouring through all the information that the Summit County Board of Health has been putting out on how to keep myself, my family and everyone else safe and healthy. The Cross Country specific guidelines seemed well thought out and must have been put together by someone that really knows the sport and all aspects of training and racing and how meets are conducted and managed, or at least had a lot of input from cross country people. Have all the other County Health departments around the state put their guidelines out yet? Wonder if there are any issues that might need to be ironed out or tweaked a tad between counties? Ahhh, there is plenty of time for that.

We did a good job of flattening the curve (At least to Woodridge CVNP standards) I'm sure we can do it again.

What an exciting time to be alive. I don't know if I will wear my "Make America Great Again" mask today or my "Please Make America Great Again" mask. Or my "Oh Dear God, Please Please Please Make America Great Again!!!" mask. Trump 2020 mask. I think I'll go with my "Hindsight is 2016" mask.
Just socially distance yourself, write a letter first as to why.
 

psycho_dad

Well-known member
I just think this thing needs to be respected and taken seriously. I don't take many things seriously, but I would rather not be the reason someone dies. The Bonespur thing gets me everytime.

Houston is close to being in very very big trouble. I'm sorry that I just don't focus on me me me.
 

Running Man 101

Active member
I just think this thing needs to be respected and taken seriously. I don't take many things seriously, but I would rather not be the reason someone dies. The Bonespur thing gets me everytime.

Houston is close to being in very very big trouble. I'm sorry that I just don't focus on me me me.
I think most of what "billcarson" is referring to in the “bonespur” crowd is kind of funny myself.



I think most people took it quite serious. I think most people paid attention to things. People had time to be at home and really focus on what was being done. Here is what they observed:

  • Media misleading people constantly on their reporting. You would watch a presentation or a briefing and then the media would summarize it. Their summary had no connection to what was said.
  • The governments in New York and New Jersey just watching all the old people in their care die, probably intentionally.
  • Democratic leaders, like Pelosi and the Cuomo and DeBlasso say there was nothing wrong and everyone should come to California and New York. Trump is a racist for blocking people from China.
  • Trump saying you should cover your face when going out. The media mocking him and getting the “experts” to say it will not help anything.
  • Everyone creating these beautiful charts and tables and graphs showing how we are so much worse the rest of the world. No test existed on anyone who died from it. No telling anyone the average of death from people who may have had it was similar to the normal age of death. BTW, the had all kinds of other health conditions.
  • The media believing what China is saying over Trump, like anyone with ¼ a brain cell knows they lie about everything, all the time.


See the chart below. The current US mortality rate is 0.042%.

1594506897433.png



I took it very serious and continue to pay very close attention. If you want to worry and stay locked up in your house, stay there. Nobody is making you leave. I’ve almost been killed in car wrecks and combat thru no action on my own. Once this turned political and into a game, I stopped worrying.
 
Also finishtiming...how are schools going to pay your costs when there is no spectators in the stands and they get almost nothing at the gates? I suggest getting a televised pay per view ready for your services like I’m projecting college and pro sports to do to make some revenue.
We have already looked into this and have it ready to go. We just have not publicized it yet. Getting final details worked out now. Actually setting it up for Moeller prime time meet now.
 

grange45

Active member
We have already looked into this and have it ready to go. We just have not publicized it yet. Getting final details worked out now. Actually setting it up for Moeller prime time meet now.
I like hearing that.

I hope ohsaa is thinking outside the box as well. I keep being pessimistic but the mandates that the Dewine put on this week after losing a lawsuit was stupid and don’t see him budging.

Politicians in today’s world double down with their decisions even when they contradict themselves.

Read my lips, no new taxes.

At least we know in the past there was some sacrifice of ones self for the common good.
 

Running Man 101

Active member
1st Amendment is: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Which part do you believe?

Here is the chart I have been waiting for:
1594752946906.png
 
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