Who is your top 4?

Arrogate

Well-known member
A&M got blown out by Bama, no denying that but it was the 2nd game of the year with a very limited off-season. I dont think they should have been in the playoffs but they are deserving of the #4 final rankings. They got better as the year went on. They likely lose by 21+ again. I would have put cincy in fwiw
 

Arrogate

Well-known member
What is the purpose of having a playoff? The answer is to crown the best TEAM. The purpose of a playoff with a field this narrow is antithetical in nearly all situations to having multiple participants from the same league when there's already been a decisive head-to-head result between them. Notre Dame/Clemson was somewhat different as they played twice and split.

A&M had zero business being in the playoff and they only have themselves to blame. Same with the Gators who imploded at the end of the year.

Future NFL players is not always a great indicator of college football quality. Northwestern has virtually zero NFL talent and was legitimately pretty tough this year all due to discipline and schemes and being able to grind out wins with minimal room for any error. Minnesota and Rutgers over the last 3-4 years have put guys into the NFL at the same rate as Tennessee and Arkansas and no one tries to argue them as being better than okay at best.

It is Bama +1 most years followed by also rans. No other league in any sport has so many teams get so much credit for so little actual accomplishment.
You forgetting Trevor didn't play in the first one. I didn't want AM in but ND didn't deserve to be in going by your standards. New shooter did
 

AugMer

Member
14 point win is scraping by now...
So Ohio State didn't scrape by Northwestern? I mean 12 points isn't scraping by in a win...

Also, Texas A&M didn't really look good in any games this year as well except for the Florida game, who ended with 4 losses.
 

Arrogate

Well-known member
So Ohio State didn't scrape by Northwestern? I mean 12 points isn't scraping by in a win...

Also, Texas A&M didn't really look good in any games this year as well except for the Florida game, who ended with 4 losses.
No OSU handled them and they hadn't played in a bit so the rust was warranted.

Agree to disagree. Jimbo style is wear you down. Offense isn't designed to blow you out. Thought they looked better as the year went on. I dont think they deserved to be in the playoff, would have rather seen UC. I dont think they beat enough good teams to really leapfrog anyone. They had a manageable schedule. I didn't think either ND or AM deserved to be in. For me I prefer new shooters over rematches
 
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nwwarrior09

Well-known member
You forgetting Trevor didn't play in the first one. I didn't want AM in but ND didn't deserve to be in going by your standards. New shooter did
I'd assume they would have lost against Trevor, but the backup QB for Clemson put up huge numbers and was not the reason why Clemson lost the first matchup.
 

AugMer

Member
No OSU handled them and they hadn't played in a bit so the rust was warranted.

Agree to disagree. Jimbo style is wear you down. Offense isn't designed to blow you out. Thought they looked better as the year went on. I dont think they deserved to be in the playoff, would have rather seen UC. I dont think they beat enough good teams to really leapfrog anyone. They had a manageable schedule. I didn't think either ND or AM deserved to be in. For me I prefer new shooters over rematches
I must be missing the point you were trying to make then when you described your four team playoff. I took it as insinuating that those teams should just be in it off talent alone, which I am going to greatly disagree with.
 

Arrogate

Well-known member
I must be missing the point you were trying to make then when you described your four team playoff. I took it as insinuating that those teams should just be in it off talent alone, which I am going to greatly disagree with.
Bama osu Clemson uc is who i would have gone with
 

Arrogate

Well-known member
I'd assume they would have lost against Trevor, but the backup QB for Clemson put up huge numbers and was not the reason why Clemson lost the first matchup.
If the 2nd game had been close i see your point but it wasn't. Getting blown out last game of the year proved everything to me. I would have elected for a new shooter.
 

Summa

Well-known member
Look at the leagues as a WHOLE, not individual teams. The SEC puts more and I mean MANY more players in the NFL than any other conference, it's not even close. That's a fact. When you say it's Bama and no one else, that's simply not true. Ole Miss, Miss State, Arkansas, Tennessee, while they may not win alot of games in conference, they still have guys drafted every year, and more than one. In the big ten, when you get to Minnesota, Illinois, Purdue, Rutgers, Maryland, Indiana (until this season)...and now, Michigan State, Michigan and even Penn State don't send more than a guy or two to the NFL anymore. It's varsity vs. JV for Ohio State week in and week out, and this season they played took two weeks off between games before playing one of their 6 games???

You could have done a 4 team SEC playoff to end the season that was more competitive than the last two weeks. Bama vs. Georgia, Florida vs. Tex A&M, winners play for the national championship.
As to conferences, I don't think it is debatable that the SEC has the most talent but the B1G does just fine in producing NFL players.

Total NFL Players by Conference:

1. SEC - 339 NFL players
2. Big Ten - 253 NFL players
3. ACC - 215 NFL players
4. Pac 12 - 189 NFL players
5. Big 12 - 122 NFL players

The 2020 Draft by Conference:

1. SEC: 63
2. Big Ten: 48
3. Pac-12: 32
4. ACC: 27
5. Big 12: 21
6. AAC: 17

*AAC is becoming a pretty solid conference.

Teams with Players in the NFL:

1. Alabama - 56
2. Ohio State -50
3. LSU - 41
4. Florida - 39
5. Michigan - 33
6. Penn State - 32
6. Georgia - 32
8. Miami - 30
9. Clemson - 29
9. Notre Dame - 29
9. Oklahoma - 29
9. Texas A&M -29
13. Iowa -28
13. Florida State - 28
13. Washington -28
16. Stanford - 27
17. Wisconsin - 25
17. Auburn - 25
17. Texas - 25
17. UCLA - 25
.....

As far as Ohio State is concerned they are right there with Alabama and above the rest of the SEC in talent.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Following the NFL talent argument, 3 of the top-7 schools with players currently in the NFL are in the Big Ten East. The other four are split in pairs in the SEC's two divisions. Ohio State is 2nd, Michigan 5th, and Penn State tied for 6th.

Iowa's tied for 12th, Wisconsin for 16th. Texas A&M is tied for 14th and Auburn for 16th.

Tired of hearing 14Red talk like the Big Ten is a collection of untalented tomato cans. Couldn't be further from the truth.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
If the 2nd game had been close i see your point but it wasn't. Getting blown out last game of the year proved everything to me. I would have elected for a new shooter.
I would have personally rather had a new shooter such as UC, but the CFP committee and the events sponsors weren't taking UC over Notre Dame. The field they selected this year was probably about as good as they could get in terms of trying to maximize revenue.
 
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AugMer

Member
In terms of recruiting rankings, which I know people hate but they are a good indication. Big Ten has 7 teams in the top 25 and SEC has 8. Not exactly a huge difference other than SEC has some more teams right at the top.
 

14Red

Well-known member
What is the purpose of having a playoff? The answer is to crown the best TEAM. The purpose of a playoff with a field this narrow is antithetical in nearly all situations to having multiple participants from the same league when there's already been a decisive head-to-head result between them. Notre Dame/Clemson was somewhat different as they played twice and split.

A&M had zero business being in the playoff and they only have themselves to blame. Same with the Gators who imploded at the end of the year.

Future NFL players is not always a great indicator of college football quality. Northwestern has virtually zero NFL talent and was legitimately pretty tough this year all due to discipline and schemes and being able to grind out wins with minimal room for any error. Minnesota and Rutgers over the last 3-4 years have put guys into the NFL at the same rate as Tennessee and Arkansas and no one tries to argue them as being better than okay at best.

It is Bama +1 most years followed by also rans. No other league in any sport has so many teams get so much credit for so little actual accomplishment.
Ok, so you're not interested in having the best teams in the playoffs, you want a system where teams earn berths by winning conferences. I'm actually very Ok with that. I like that, but don't then say it's the best team. Let's call this what it is, it's an invitational tournament based on the decisions of a dozen people in a room, some whom have never played or coached football. It's about money for the big conferences and ratings for the money supplier -- the TV networks. And I'm ok with that too.

I'm not sure I'd say A&M had no business, if you want to get the BEST teams in the playoffs, you can't penalize the teams in the division of the best team by automatically eliminating them. And we can certainly claim that A&M is in the conversation because they played Bama as close as Ohio State and Notre Dame did.

Just stop with the Northwestern stuff. We always evaluate talent based on who goes to the next level. Northwestern, Wisconsin are good "in their environments" and who they play against. Once they play teams with more talent and speed, it's over.
 

Summa

Well-known member
Wisconsin are good "in their environments" and who they play against. Once they play teams with more talent and speed, it's over.
Wisconsin beat LSU the last time they played (2016). LSU actually traveled north to Lambeau Field and went back down South with a loss.
 

Summa

Well-known member
I'm not sure I'd say A&M had no business, if you want to get the BEST teams in the playoffs, you can't penalize the teams in the division of the best team by automatically eliminating them. And we can certainly claim that A&M is in the conversation because they played Bama as close as Ohio State and Notre Dame did.
Texas A&M is mostly ESPN hype. They are just ready to become elite every year (per ESPN), so I will continue to wait for that to happen. A healthy Ohio State would have had no problem with A&M.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Wisconsin beat LSU the last time they played (2016). LSU actually traveled north to Lambeau Field and went back down South with a loss.
Please list for me the numbers of LSU players in the league vs. Wisconsin? I do remember that game and I was slightly surprised, but it happens. Wisconsin is a good football program. But like Ohio State, my guess is if Wisky plays in the SEC, they lose 3-4 games, they don't go to the conf championship game like they do in the big ten every other season.
 

Orin Swift

Well-known member
Been busy as all get out man. Trying to get horses to turn left really fast. Hope all is well with you man.
Always so much easier said than done. Wife and i were supposed to go the Derby this past year and tour one of the nearby farms after, I was incredibly bummed that didn't happen.

But back on topic, from Summa's post I would have never guessed the space between AAC and Pac 12 was the same as the SEC to the Big 10. But the numbers make sense. We've seen it happen for years but more and more people moving out of the midwest in favor of the south. According to a cleveland.com article in 2019, about 1 in 3 native Ohioans no longer live in the state. A study from 2018 shows Ohio was #6 in "most moved from" state. Illinois, Michigan and Iowa joined Ohio in the top 10 of that list. Meanwhile zero southern states in the top 10 of that list. College football, and recruiting, is more national than ever before but it is still pretty regional. For reference, Ohio State's 2021 class 12 of their 21 commits are regional kids (Ohio, PA, VA, IN, KY, IN, St. Louis MO).
 

Summa

Well-known member
Please list for me the numbers of LSU players in the league vs. Wisconsin? I do remember that game and I was slightly surprised, but it happens. Wisconsin is a good football program. But like Ohio State, my guess is if Wisky plays in the SEC, they lose 3-4 games, they don't go to the conf championship game like they do in the big ten every other season.
I already did that, are you not reading the posts in this thread?

I was responding to "Wisconsin are good "in their environments" and who they play against. Once they play teams with more talent and speed, it's over."

The NFL must love slow guys, since Ohio State has the second most players in the League, only a few behind Alabama.
 

Orin Swift

Well-known member
14Red: "once Wisconsin plays a team with speed and talent, it's over."

Summa "Yeah, no they beat LSU"

14Red: "it doesn't matter - how many are in the league?!" lol what a dweeb. Not sure why anyone responds to the troll anymore.
 

Summa

Well-known member
14Red: "once Wisconsin plays a team with speed and talent, it's over."

Summa "Yeah, no they beat LSU"

14Red: "it doesn't matter - how many are in the league?!" lol what a dweeb. Not sure why anyone responds to the troll anymore.
And Northwestern actually beat the SEC three out of the last four times they played against them (2012-Mississippi State; 2017-Kentucky and 2020-Auburn). Go figure.
 

14Red

Well-known member
And Northwestern actually beat the SEC three out of the last four times they played against them (2012-Mississippi State; 2017-Kentucky and 2020-Auburn). Go figure.
Ok, Ohio State is 2-11 vs. SEC teams in postseason?? Point is you can pull stats to support any argument you want. Again, from the 10,000 ft. view, the SEC has better depth OVERALL, and sends more players to the big ten. That is a FACT!! And it's more than a one trick pony. I think Michigan State made it to the playoff once, and other than that all Buckeyes. Bama is a staple in the SEC, but we've seen LSU (last season), Auburn, Georgia and Florida in the mix as well.
 

Arrogate

Well-known member
urban Meyer was notorious for recruiting slow athletes. Probably why he never won anything at OSU right 14red
 
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