Western Buckeye League 2021

Beezer70

Member
Just to clear the argument about Frye and Moyer, I played for both of them. They are both great but have their differences.

Frye is a classic tough guy. That is a good thing and bad thing. He is a player builder. He turns the players into the toughest, strongest and most physical players you can play against. However, he turns off other coaches. Other coaches don’t want to play with him. He’s disrespectful to most those around him. But he develops players, and that is one of the most important aspects of coaching.

Moyer is a good man. Very good man. He cares about every single player, every kid in the school, and his coaching staff. He builds coaching staffs like no other in this part of Ohio. He’s had multiple head coaches on his staff as assistants, including current Fort Laramie head coach Spencer Wells who is creating a fantastic culture over there, current Elida head coach Kyle Harmon, former Bath head coach Bill Garland, and Wapak head coach in waiting Nick Truesdale, who is probably the best defensive mind in the league and I would argue in almost all of Northwest Ohio. His former defensive coordinator, Mike Voll would be worth of a head coaching position but retired due to wanting to have time with his family. However, he takes it easy on his players. Especially the good ones. He allows the best players to slack in the weight room, sit in the training room during practice or do bad things to underclassmen. However, he is a fantastic motivator and great in the film room.

Like many on here have said, Moyer has succeeded with Frye’s players. That is why I think the 2014 team was the best Wapak team of all time and in my opinion, one of the best this area has ever had. They had Frye developed players with Moyer coaching. I doubt a Wapak team like that will come around again.
I love your post so much knowledge and insite plus I think you dated my cousins daughter possibly lol. Moyer wont win a state title when his best players are allowed to slack these guys should be the team leaders and setting the example that the younger kids follow. Sitting in the weight room and bullying underclassman might wont do it. If this is the culture and he wins the WBL doing this imagine if these star players put in the work off the field. Im not a huge Truesdale fan after the last Trotwood game several times they lined up and we was out of position especially the trick play they called before half and didnt call a time out.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Regarding double round robins and crossovers...compared to places north and west of Dayton, I'd argue to you almost have to schedule league play that way due to geography. The MAC, SCAL, CCC, WBL, etc. have several spots where there are a huge number of smaller schools clumped together because schools never consolidated and communities kept their own schools. You can play a huge number of non-conference games with very limited travel. Just my two cents.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
The problem with 9 teams is that there is always a team who cant play a league foe that week. Have to have an even number.
You do NOT want that. Been there, done that and after week 2-3 the pickings are extremely slim.
 

jonmoxon

Active member
I love your post so much knowledge and insite plus I think you dated my cousins daughter possibly lol. Moyer wont win a state title when his best players are allowed to slack these guys should be the team leaders and setting the example that the younger kids follow. Sitting in the weight room and bullying underclassman might wont do it. If this is the culture and he wins the WBL doing this imagine if these star players put in the work off the field. Im not a huge Truesdale fan after the last Trotwood game several times they lined up and we was out of position especially the trick play they called before half and didnt call a time out.
Maybe next year Wapak will be able to align to defend quads a lot better than they did last year.
 

ghsknightsfan

Well-known member
That's the only way I could ever see the highlighted leaving the CBC to go back to the WBL. Otherwise, the travel for round robin in football and double round robin in everything else is absolutely terrible. They have some longer trips in the CBC, but I believe everything tops out at worst at around 50 minutes with most of them being easy drives on 68. The only longer trips that require funky routes on lesser roads are probably London and maybe North Union.
if Defiance were to in fact head back north (which it sounds like they are) then Bellefontaine should be the add and this should be the split. it makes sense for all involved. 4 division games with 3 crossovers and 3 OOC games so teams can add more close games and play whoever they want. you can avoid Van Wert to Bellefontaine/Kenton this way as well.
 

ghsknightsfan

Well-known member
crossovers could be as follows:

NORTH
Van Wert- Celina, St. Marys, Wapakoneta
Ottawa Glandorf- Kenton, Wapakoneta, St. Marys
Elida- St. Marys, Celina, Bellefontaine
Shawnee- Bellefontaine, Kenton, Celina
Bath- Wapakoneta, Bellefontaine, Kenton

SOUTH
Bellefontaine- Shawnee, Bath, Elida
Kenton- Ottawa Glandorf, Shawnee, Bath
Wapakoneta- Bath, Ottawa Glandorf, Van Wert
St Mary's- Elida, Van Wert, Ottawa Glandorf
Celina- Van Wert, Elida, Shawnee
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
i don’t buy it. Defiance has nothing to gain in the WBL.
Extremely stable league with a lot of state level success across a number of sports...they haven't had any changes in roughly 40 years (Lima Shawnee in, Delphos St. John's out), and a handful of these schools have been together under the WBL banner for 80 years. Some of the travel trips are God awful, but this is one of the best leagues in the state for schools of this size and demographics. I could see it being very difficult to pull the trigger on getting out.
 

ghsknightsfan

Well-known member
Extremely stable league with a lot of state level success across a number of sports...they haven't had any changes in roughly 40 years (Lima Shawnee in, Delphos St. John's out), and a handful of these schools have been together under the WBL banner for 80 years. Some of the travel trips are God awful, but this is one of the best leagues in the state for schools of this size and demographics. I could see it being very difficult to pull the trigger on getting out.
change is good sometimes. they could find themselves in a better situation with Bryan, Napoleon, Wauseon, etc. the WBL is a great league. but Defiance heading closer to home makes sense for them.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
change is good sometimes. they could find themselves in a better situation with Bryan, Napoleon, Wauseon, etc. the WBL is a great league. but Defiance heading closer to home makes sense for them.
If this does actually go through, if the WBL wants to hold to 10 school lineup I'd agree that Bellefontaine is arguably the most logical target and it would be tempting if the league went to a divisional format.

That said, there would be several important details to bear in mind or beware of buyer's remorse later on. The travel in a divisional format is no better than in the CBC, and though not frequent in a divisional format, trips to Ottawa Glandorf and Van Wert would be brutally bad from Bellefontaine and vice versa. If I were those two, I wouldn't want Bellefontaine in my league unless there were literally no other options and they were stuck on nine schools. All sports across the board the WBL is light years better than the CBC and most years being lumped in a division with Wapak, Kenton and St. Mary's for football would be murderer's row. The current CBC Kenton Trail is no slouch in football by any means with room for improvement (Kenton Ridge), but it's nowhere near that tough and across the board is probably a much better fit for their entire athletic program.
 

HighSchoolFB45

Well-known member
I love your post so much knowledge and insite plus I think you dated my cousins daughter possibly lol. Moyer wont win a state title when his best players are allowed to slack these guys should be the team leaders and setting the example that the younger kids follow. Sitting in the weight room and bullying underclassman might wont do it. If this is the culture and he wins the WBL doing this imagine if these star players put in the work off the field. Im not a huge Truesdale fan after the last Trotwood game several times they lined up and we was out of position especially the trick play they called before half and didnt call a time out.
I do remember that call you’re talking about. It wasn’t a trick play by Trotwood, just a great play. Truesdale called a mike blitz, and then Trotwood ran a 4 vert with the slot guy running open over the seam. Just a good call by Trotwood.

That Trotwood game was a very frustrating game. We forced a three and out, and scored on our opening drive and led the entire half 7-0. We were going to end the half with the lead, and Trotwood had the ball on their 3 yard line with a 3rd and long. They picked up the first down, then marched down the field and scored on the play i just mentioned. I don’t want to talk about the 21 points scored in 2 1/2 minutes off of a punt return TD, fumble recovery touchdown on the ensuing kickoff, and then a blown coverage by our defense after a 3 and out by our offense. We stormed back to only trail by 5, but they went down the field and scored again. Even more painful knowing Trotwood went on to win the title.
 

HighSchoolFB45

Well-known member
Hypothetically, I believe a Norwalk-Wapak matchup in 18 would have been a great game. Having said this, Truckers nowhere close being elite in NW Ohio.
After Kenston and Alter, I would definitely argue Wapak and Norwalk were the two best teams in D3 that year. Would have been a great game. Wapak had a stingy defense, Norwalk had an imposing offensive line. My prediction would be a 24-14 Wapak win
 

ghsknightsfan

Well-known member
If this does actually go through, if the WBL wants to hold to 10 school lineup I'd agree that Bellefontaine is arguably the most logical target and it would be tempting if the league went to a divisional format.

That said, there would be several important details to bear in mind or beware of buyer's remorse later on. The travel in a divisional format is no better than in the CBC, and though not frequent in a divisional format, trips to Ottawa Glandorf and Van Wert would be brutally bad from Bellefontaine and vice versa. If I were those two, I wouldn't want Bellefontaine in my league unless there were literally no other options and they were stuck on nine schools. All sports across the board the WBL is light years better than the CBC and most years being lumped in a division with Wapak, Kenton and St. Mary's for football would be murderer's row. The current CBC Kenton Trail is no slouch in football by any means with room for improvement (Kenton Ridge), but it's nowhere near that tough and across the board is probably a much better fit for their entire athletic program.
i agree. i think Bellefontaine will probably be stuck where they are as a program if they stay in the CBC Kenton Trail. other posters make it seem
as if they have a lot of talent coming up. i also think Bellefontaine is a better cultural fit in the WBL. Bellefontaine has been playing Kenton, Wapak, St Mary’s, and Lima Shawnee in sports for decades. the Clark county schools will start a league at some point soon. it’s coming. and if that happens, Bellefontaine will be left to dry. if Defiance leaves and they get the invite, Bellefontaine shouldn’t turn it down.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
i agree. i think Bellefontaine will probably be stuck where they are as a program if they stay in the CBC Kenton Trail. other posters make it seem
as if they have a lot of talent coming up. i also think Bellefontaine is a better cultural fit in the WBL. Bellefontaine has been playing Kenton, Wapak, St Mary’s, and Lima Shawnee in sports for decades. the Clark county schools will start a league at some point soon. it’s coming. and if that happens, Bellefontaine will be left to dry. if Defiance leaves and they get the invite, Bellefontaine shouldn’t turn it down.
If this actually happens it might spur the Clark county thing into happening much, much sooner than I otherwise would have anticipated. Eventually there's going to be a lot of small D4/large D5 schools clustered in our area between who's shrinking and who's growing.

I'm just not convinced that Defiance bolts on the stability of the WBL even if getting with some of the schools that are closer to Toledo looks better on paper. Same with some of the other moves that would need to be made up that direction for it to trickle down this way. The NLL is much the same as having a lot of long-term stability, and I could see the schools that are growing or shrinking out of it choosing familiarity over resizing the competitive landscape. As bad as the TRAC publics might want to punt the TRAC privates to the curb, they can't do it without the NLL opening the door and specifically Perrysburg and Anthony Wayne deciding it's time to compete with the big boys.

If the current CBC implodes at some point, the WBL would be a much better option for Bellefontaine than the MVL or anything that's off to the north/northwest of Columbus.
 

dhsdog06

Well-known member
I still think the key for Defiance is what happens with Bryan, and MAYBE Wauseon. Face it, Defiance, Napoleon, Bryan, and Wauseon BELONG together somewhere. If those 3 are all in, I'm not sure we can afford to turn that down. If Bryan specifically is out, we may as well stay put. We already play Napoleon so that wouldn't be any change.

I do fear leaving then having this blow up in 5 years (or less) and being strandef again. But trading Kenton, Celina, St. Marys, etc. for the actual close to home schools that similar size would be a win to me. As long as we'd have 4 sticking together, I think we'd manage long term if things blew up.
 

*67

Active member
The problem with 9 teams is that there is always a team who cant play a league foe that week. Have to have an even number.
If Defiance were to leave the WBL, I know there's talk of Lima Senior, Liberty-Benton, or Bellefontaine replacing them, but I'm here to tell you the much more likely scenario is Kenton is strongly encouraged to seek membership in the CBC, and the WBL goes to 8 teams.
 

dhsdog06

Well-known member
If Defiance were to leave the WBL, I know there's talk of Lima Senior, Liberty-Benton, or Bellefontaine replacing them, but I'm here to tell you the much more likely scenario is Kenton is strongly encouraged to seek membership in the CBC, and the WBL goes to 8 teams.
Would the CBC lose a team? Have a 14th in mind? There's no way they'd just go to 13.

More likely would be a deal with Lima Senior to play late season non league games without being in the league, while trying to nudge Kenton out.


Although FWIW, Tom Held claims he's heard NOTHING as far as leaving. Could just be a big bluff, but if true he's right that you'd think at the least the coach of the most successful program in the school would know.
 

*67

Active member
Would the CBC lose a team? Have a 14th in mind? There's no way they'd just go to 13.

More likely would be a deal with Lima Senior to play late season non league games without being in the league, while trying to nudge Kenton out.


Although FWIW, Tom Held claims he's heard NOTHING as far as leaving. Could just be a big bluff, but if true he's right that you'd think at the least the coach of the most successful program in the school would know.
There's already some talk of a current CBC team looking elsewhere. So I'm thinking Kenton will replace that school.

I believe Tom Held. People I've talked to have confirmed what he is saying. Defiance ain't leaving.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
It would take a lot to get Kenton into the CBC. Somebody would have to exit which I don't see being imminent unless Bellefontaine were a WBL expansion or North Union bails, and I think they'd have to get everyone to agree to realign the divisions into north and south.

I personally wouldn't mind them in a north/south divisional split, but I tend to think that if the CBC loses a school or two the league will just shrink as opposed to stretching the footprint again for expansion. Unless there's a massive blow up in this area, I think the current CBC lineup probably continues for as long as Jonathan Alder is a D3 football school and as long as North Union tolerates the travel. I think they're probably good for at least another 10 years barring some major OHC dominoes, in which case all bets are off.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
There's already some talk of a current CBC team looking elsewhere. So I'm thinking Kenton will replace that school.

I believe Tom Held. People I've talked to have confirmed what he is saying. Defiance ain't leaving.
Which CBC team?
 

thavoice

Well-known member
One that has illusions of rapid, rapid growth in the next 5-10 years, and wanting to get into a conference with much larger members. Don't see either of those things happening, but we'll see.
I do expect them to make long playoff runs in 2022-23. Their FROSH class was that good.....
 

Krasula24

Member
defiance needs to leave. they spend so much money on transportation just to travel for a weekday league game. they would save so much more time (30 - 45 mins) and money by just staying in NWO.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
One that has illusions of rapid, rapid growth in the next 5-10 years, and wanting to get into a conference with much larger members. Don't see either of those things happening, but we'll see.
Sounds like Alder. They're the only league school I'd expect to see any growth, let alone the rapid growth that everyone has been anticipating for years to spill into Plain City from Dublin.
 

dhsdog06

Well-known member
defiance needs to leave. they spend so much money on transportation just to travel for a weekday league game. they would save so much more time (30 - 45 mins) and money by just staying in NWO.
Problem is, outside of Bryan, Napoleon, and Wauseon the travel is still huge. Toledo and BG are very similar drives to Lima, Van Wert, and even Wapak. It's really just Kenton, Celina, and St. Marys that are true killers. The only real argument is that 24 is an easier trip than any of the highways to WBL towns, which is accurate.

But believe me, I'd love to see at least the big 4 in the area together. The fact they're in 3 separate leagues and don't all play in football isn't doing anyone any favors.
 
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