Warren County Soccer Academy is now Kings Hammer North

Not sure how this really benefits anyone? Big distance between the two clubs, Warren County has been a community club it seemed for quite a while, now just another franchise.

Seems like kings hammer is just trying to swallow up lots of clubs to make as much $$$ as possible. Not sure this is about the players at all sadly.
 

Conan73

Active member
Warren County's numbers have been declining for years. There are fixed costs associated with running a club. The smaller you are, the harder it is to stay in operation; especially with a volunteer-parent board of directors. This will be good for most of the athletes. Most will continue to play for their current teams. The top elite level players will now get the chance to be a part of Kings Hammer's Academy program; which will give them access to higher level play, more collegiate exposure, etc.
 

Conan73

Active member
The kids on warren county elite are not driving 45-60 minutes south to play for kha red or blue lol
[/QUOTE
Kings Hammer didn't say where the elite teams will play, just that the satellite sites will not have the Academy program. Today, Warren County's elite teams do not train in Lebanon. They train wherever they can get turf space. We shall see what happens
 

Empty CUP

Active member
Warren Co. Top teams in the high school age,
U15 is average at best, blown out by Galaxies and lost to SLSG's 3rd team behind their RL.
U16 not good, losing or tying to Hammers 3rd and 4th teams. Lost to New ECNL club Racing Louisville's 3rd team behind their ECNL RL.
U17's have not scored vs. Hammer Red and lost every game vs them this year and last. They have done well vs other RL teams.
U19's lost to the only ECNL team they have ever played and Tied DPA that lost to an ECNL RL team.

For sure WC has some talented kids on the teams even the ones mentioned above, but to think they are better than playing ECNL clubs 2nd teams does not hold much water. Hammer will build their player pool from deep across both Ohio and Kentucky's borders. and I have to believe they will end up with a full ECNL spot in the next year or 2. They will have a huge group of kids to pull from both in the club and outside the club. Kids already drive from hours away to play ECNL you don't think kids would drive from Lebanon or Maineville? Seems unlikely.
 

5x26

Active member
I don't know what it's going to look like but Hammer is quickly becoming the biggest club in the region and my bet is they're not done yet. If FC Cincy gets a NWSL franchise as they have said multiple times they want to, With Berding and McCloskey's Hammer ties I can see them becoming the FCC's girls Academy and many of the NWSL academy's are ECNL now. Maybe I'm wrong but if I'm right... As a businessman I appreciate what they are doing, growth seems systematic and focused.
 
Warren Co. Top teams in the high school age,
U15 is average at best, blown out by Galaxies and lost to SLSG's 3rd team behind their RL.
U16 not good, losing or tying to Hammers 3rd and 4th teams. Lost to New ECNL club Racing Louisville's 3rd team behind their ECNL RL.
U17's have not scored vs. Hammer Red and lost every game vs them this year and last. They have done well vs other RL teams.
U19's lost to the only ECNL team they have ever played and Tied DPA that lost to an ECNL RL team.

For sure WC has some talented kids on the teams even the ones mentioned above, but to think they are better than playing ECNL clubs 2nd teams does not hold much water. Hammer will build their player pool from deep across both Ohio and Kentucky's borders. and I have to believe they will end up with a full ECNL spot in the next year or 2. They will have a huge group of kids to pull from both in the club and outside the club. Kids already drive from hours away to play ECNL you don't think kids would drive from Lebanon or Maineville? Seems unlikely.

My post did not say they were "better than playing" B teams. My point was you could easily argue that MRL is better than B league.

If they wanted to play ECNL or DA Ohio Elite and CUP are shorter drives. I know your posts are all anti-CUP but they and OE seem to still be the clear leaders in the area.
 

Conan73

Active member
Warren Co. Top teams in the high school age,
U15 is average at best, blown out by Galaxies and lost to SLSG's 3rd team behind their RL.
U16 not good, losing or tying to Hammers 3rd and 4th teams. Lost to New ECNL club Racing Louisville's 3rd team behind their ECNL RL.
U17's have not scored vs. Hammer Red and lost every game vs them this year and last. They have done well vs other RL teams.
U19's lost to the only ECNL team they have ever played and Tied DPA that lost to an ECNL RL team.

For sure WC has some talented kids on the teams even the ones mentioned above, but to think they are better than playing ECNL clubs 2nd teams does not hold much water. Hammer will build their player pool from deep across both Ohio and Kentucky's borders. and I have to believe they will end up with a full ECNL spot in the next year or 2. They will have a huge group of kids to pull from both in the club and outside the club. Kids already drive from hours away to play ECNL you don't think kids would drive from Lebanon or Maineville? Seems unlikely.
Agree. Also, the WCSA elite teams currently have players outside of the Lebanon area. They pull from Mason, Westchester, Springboro, Loveland, Fairfield, and beyond. Importantly, they do not practice or play games at the Lebanon facility. If they're in GCL, they play all over region, and they've practiced at MND, Wyoming, etc....so, many players already drive 30-40 minutes or more....
 

Conan73

Active member
I don't know what it's going to look like but Hammer is quickly becoming the biggest club in the region and my bet is they're not done yet. If FC Cincy gets a NWSL franchise as they have said multiple times they want to, With Berding and McCloskey's Hammer ties I can see them becoming the FCC's girls Academy and many of the NWSL academy's are ECNL now. Maybe I'm wrong but if I'm right... As a businessman I appreciate what they are doing, growth seems systematic and focused.
Kings Hammer went with professional business managers that then got a private equity firm to take a stake in the club. They are a for-profit enterprise, and they publicly stated that their goal is to expand nationally. So, the first step is to expand in metro-Cincinnati. Club soccer has a lot of inefficiencies, especially in Cincinnati. Small to mid-size clubs struggle to survive because of the fixed costs associated with running a club. Kings Hammer can absorb these small to mid-size clubs around the country. Achieve cost synergies by handling all the back-office stuff centrally (payroll, player cards, league fees, running tournaments). They can then build the Kings Hammer brand by having ECNL and top regional and National League teams from all over the country playing under the Kings Hammer banner. They can build this into a profitable venture; while also having funds to attract top talent coaches.
 

5x26

Active member
Kings Hammer went with professional business managers that then got a private equity firm to take a stake in the club. They are a for-profit enterprise, and they publicly stated that their goal is to expand nationally. So, the first step is to expand in metro-Cincinnati. Club soccer has a lot of inefficiencies, especially in Cincinnati. Small to mid-size clubs struggle to survive because of the fixed costs associated with running a club. Kings Hammer can absorb these small to mid-size clubs around the country. Achieve cost synergies by handling all the back-office stuff centrally (payroll, player cards, league fees, running tournaments). They can then build the Kings Hammer brand by having ECNL and top regional and National League teams from all over the country playing under the Kings Hammer banner. They can build this into a profitable venture; while also having funds to attract top talent coaches.
So Kinda like SURF or Sting in Texas to a lesser degree? Thanks for the Info. I wasn't aware of all that and it makes sense now. But I do recognize what it looks like from a business perspective.
 

Manmythlegeng66

Active member
IMO Warren Counties top teams are a top 10 team normally at best. Kings Hammer is selling their ECNL bid in a couple years hard. I dont ever seeing it happening. In order for KHA to get that nod they will have to perform better than the majority of ECNL regional teams in their division. Last year in that division the Ohio Elite teams did not lose one game in a shortened season. Most of the teams played 4-6 league games before the season was called. Ohio Elite Regional teams are pretty good. Mostly top 10 teams themselves in SWO. But have a a very fluid roster from year to year due to girls being dropped down to the regional team or coming over from other clubs to be a part of the ECNL name. I believe OP is pretty good as well from past experience. If Kings Hammer becomes a ECNL team will decimate teams in this area by attracting players. I could see it effecting Cup and GA since the ECNL is such an attractive brand. Plus 2nd level teams may see an exodus of their top talent for a shot for them to play ECNL.
 

Conan73

Active member
They've come a long way from the days of the GSC Cardinals and the Cincinnati Classics.
[/QUOTE]

5/20 - joined ECNL regional league
5/20 - acquired Sycamore Premier
9/20 - acquired Northern Kentucky Soccer Academy
12/20 - acquired Warren County

This is probably around a 100 new teams for the greater Cinci area; which probably makes them larger than CU
That article is from 14 months ago. I'm curious if the expansion plans are still as ambitious.
 

5x26

Active member
They've come a long way from the days of the GSC Cardinals and the Cincinnati Classics.
5/20 - joined ECNL regional league
5/20 - acquired Sycamore Premier
9/20 - acquired Northern Kentucky Soccer Academy
12/20 - acquired Warren County

This is probably around a Damn clearly 100 new teams for the greater Cinci area; which probably makes them larger than CU
[/QUOTE]

Damn clearly I've been living under a rock. I didn't know about NKSA. I knew they expanded further down into Kentucky towards Lexington. Hammer has always had good representation on the East Side of Cincy, if they pick up a west side club, it would be a true Juggernaut in the area. Have to believe they are already bigger than CU.
 

coachg

Active member
How long will cities / citizens allow their parks to be used by a for-profit company at the same rental rate as a 501C? Many local places have different prices for a for profit vs a 501c including most schools I have rented from. Some will not rent out at all to a for-profit organization. I predict that as the Govt. of each city learn about them being for-profit status their costs will skyrocket. I already know one city looking into their status and will almost double their rental fees as already written into the rental prices before the city knew of the merger. Will be interesting to watch it play out.
 

coachg

Active member
Another question I am just curious about.. Is it right / legal for a for profit organization to profit off an non profit organization or use them to benefit themselves. Should they be allowed to join a non profit such as OSYSA and take advanatge of that groups property insurance and medical insurance the players have?
 

Conan73

Active member
Another question I am just curious about.. Is it right / legal for a for profit organization to profit off an non profit organization or use them to benefit themselves. Should they be allowed to join a non profit such as OSYSA and take advanatge of that groups property insurance and medical insurance the players have?
It is not unusual or illegal for a for-profit company to have a membership in a non-profit association. They pay membership dues.
 

coachg

Active member
It is not unusual or illegal for a for-profit company to have a membership in a non-profit association. They pay membership dues.
I wonder how the use of public parks and schools will play out with many entities charging for-profits a lot more and some schools not letting for profits use their facilities. I know they have in the past but I doubt many schools and local Govts knew they were a for profit entity. It will be interesting.
 
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BASESWIMPARENT

Well-known member
As long as the fees are paid, I don't see why not. Many of the public fields are relying more and more on fees to maintain them, so yes for profits will not have a problem unless of course you want to personally sponsor the field yourself and then you can ban the for profits.
 
Coach G why are you so against for profit clubs?
Seems like sour grapes.

There really is nothing against any laws (could be state-to-state) regarding non-profit facility ownership renting to for-profit entities. Why should there be? If anything the nonprofit is using it to their advantage for their ability to skip out on property taxes and such.

Schools have for-profit entities use their facilities regularly in areas. Much like for-profit entities allow non-profits to use their facilities (like movie theatres allowing churches to use facilities).
 

coachg

Active member
Seems like sour grapes.

There really is nothing against any laws (could be state-to-state) regarding non-profit facility ownership renting to for-profit entities. Why should there be? If anything the nonprofit is using it to their advantage for their ability to skip out on property taxes and such.

Schools have for-profit entities use their facilities regularly in areas. Much like for-profit entities allow non-profits to use their facilities (like movie theatres allowing churches to use facilities).
Name one for-profit that uses a park or a school on a daily basis from Spring to Fall in order to churn a profit.

I am not against them being for-profit just believe they should pay more to use public tax payer property is all. If they can build a better mouse trap they will catch more mice. I dont care if its P&G, GE, Smuckers, or Kings Hammer doing it. I say charge them more to use the fields and I know a few schools that do just that. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
 
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there has been a dramatic shift in KH it seems since TR left town.

Quality way down
#s way up

One wanted to develop players now they develop bottom lines. They are crystal clear it is a business. Nothing wrong with it, it's just what it is. Every club has the right to select how they want to operate.
 
Name one for-profit that uses a park or a school on a daily basis from Spring to Fall in order to churn a profit.

I am not against them being for-profit just believe they should pay more to use public tax payer property is all. If they can build a better mouse trap they will catch more mice. I dont care if its P&G, GE, Smuckers, or Kings Hammer doing it. I say charge them more to use the fields and I know a few schools that do just that. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
I will go through a list of ALL the for-profit entities known in the US to get you a calculated database. Get out of here with that.

Again, if anything, it is too the advantage of the non-profit that a for-profit entity is using it. How is it not? They get the benefit of income, but no taxing. Sounds like a sweet deal to me. Go look at Anderson Township, they rent their facilities to anyone who uses it at the same fee -- only one change is if you are a resident or non-resident of the township. Where are you crying over that usage? Silent.
 
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