Vaccination

Gh0st

Gh0st

Well-known member
Yet again, we are reaping the whirlwind of not vaccinating our children caused from rabble rousers making unfounded claims based on redacted scientific data. I simply don't get the refusal to accept the science surrounding the safety of vaccines. They are the ONE possible source for autism that has been scrutinized and not one shred of evidence exists for any causal relationship between vaccine and autism.

One thing is becoming pretty certain. You choose not to vaccinate and you will be dealing with one of these 100% preventable diseases. And the cost of healthcare will just keep rising.
 
 
You know the beauty of it all...or most I will say, it isn't affecting anyone but them. Reap what you sow I guess.
 
Uncle Ted said:
You know the beauty of it all...or most I will say, it isn't affecting anyone but them. Reap what you sow I guess.
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Unfortunately it will start affecting more than them. The idea of vaccination relies on herd immunity. If more and more decide to stop vaccinating then the virus lives on and mutates. Also there is an inherent rate of people who do not seroconvert after vaccination. Herd immunity also protects them. On top of all of that, we are spending health care money treating measles when not $1 over the cost of vaccination needs to be spent.
 
Forgot about the mutating thing. Which Ebola is doing that right now. Not as deadly now but easier to contract.
 
I am actually pretty torn on this. In my opinion, it is absolutely stupid to not get your kids vaccinated. But then, I believe in freedom, including the freedom to be absolutely stupid. Obviously the government cannot force people to get vaccinations, but what is going on out here in CA now is that some public schools are basically telling unvaccinated kids to stay home and not come to school, whether they have any symptoms or not.

In one case, which has gained some notoriety here in the Bay area, one parent of a child with Leukemia has asked their child's public school to send home any unvaccinated kids, since their child's immune system is compromised by his Leukemia (which, while it has decimated the kid's immune system, is currently in remission). Also, I heard on the radio that many doctors are refusing to see children whose parents have refused to have them vaccinated.
 
I am personally asking for someone who does not support vaccination to debate me on this topic. It is infuriating some of the choices being made. I am NOT discussing the topic of mandatory vaccination. Even if that is your issue, why are you choosing not to vaccinate?
 
the_big_toe said:
I am actually pretty torn on this. In my opinion, it is absolutely stupid to not get your kids vaccinated. But then, I believe in freedom, including the freedom to be absolutely stupid. Obviously the government cannot force people to get vaccinations, but what is going on out here in CA now is that some public schools are basically telling unvaccinated kids to stay home and not come to school, whether they have any symptoms or not.

In one case, which has gained some notoriety here in the Bay area, one parent of a child with Leukemia has asked their child's public school to send home any unvaccinated kids, since their child's immune system is compromised by his Leukemia (which, while it has decimated the kid's immune system, is currently in remission). Also, I heard on the radio that many doctors are refusing to see children whose parents have refused to have them vaccinated.
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The right to choose vaccination doesn't reverberate much with me. I agree it is a choice. My problem is, why is this choice being made when no scientific conclusion supports it.

As for doctors not seeig unvaccinated children. Most docs are willing to work with a modified vaccine schedule to spread them out over a longer period of time. But accepting a patients choice to not vaccinate entirely is essentially the physician agreeing to that choice and signing the chart with that recommendation. I don't any physician I've ever met has agreed to no vaccination. Also there are some insurance implications, most plans require a minimum amount of vaccination and won't cover patients who are unvaccinated.
 
Gh0st said:
I am personally asking for someone who does not support vaccination to debate me on this topic. It is infuriating some of the choices being made. I am NOT discussing the topic of mandatory vaccination. Even if that is your issue, why are you choosing not to vaccinate?
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Interestingly enough, it seems to be a lot of the mini car driving, climate change crowd that is ignoring G the science on this...
 
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Gh0st said:
The right to choose vaccination doesn't reverberate much with me. I agree it is a choice. My problem is, why is this choice being made when no scientific conclusion supports it.
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Well, the underlying legal reason why you are allowed to make the choice is because there actually are some religions that shun modern medicine altogether, and in a country with religious freedom, we allow that.

Now, I think it is patently obvious that some people are claiming that exemption who do not have such a genuinely held belief - they are just morons who still think the vaccine causes autism. Personally, I don't think they should even have to tell that little lie in order to be exempt from vaccination, as such a decision is the best example of Darwin at work that we could possibly ask for. Also, since most of the morons making this decision in the Bay area are leftist liberal elites from Marin County, I don't really shed a tear for them when their own stupidity comes back to bite them in their @$$.

From a personal perspective, both of my kids are fully vaccinated.

Gh0st said:
As for doctors not seeig unvaccinated children. Most docs are willing to work with a modified vaccine schedule to spread them out over a longer period of time. But accepting a patients choice to not vaccinate entirely is essentially the physician agreeing to that choice and signing the chart with that recommendation. I don't any physician I've ever met has agreed to no vaccination. Also there are some insurance implications, most plans require a minimum amount of vaccination and won't cover patients who are unvaccinated.
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I have heard that the main concern for the physicians is that they have waiting rooms full of patients who, since they are presumably already sick, already have weakened immune systems, and they don't want to expose those patients to other already infected patients. I have even heard that some doctors will see unvaccinated patients, but that those patients must be seen in their cars in the parking lot, or the doctor will make a housecall, or something where the unvaccinated patients don't mingle with the vaccinated patients.
 
Ghost I doubt you will find anyone to debate you, especially now that the measles are spreading again. Maybe last year you would of found a couple to come forward.
 
We don't and never seem to get sick. We got them years ago and didnt get sick either. Guess we are just healthy or lucky. We're the only constant in this experiment.

Measles is a virus? If so, and you get it, all you can do is ride it out then? If so, I can see why doctors aren't wanting to see them. Nothing you can do for them I guess.
 
Uncle Ted said:
I never got the flu either, but I am starting to feel my age. So for me it was time.
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Just a number. I think I am a year older than you based on other posts. But I know what you mean about feeling your age. Walk more like Fred Sanford everyday.
 
winbypin said:
We don't and never seem to get sick. We got them years ago and didnt get sick either. Guess we are just healthy or lucky. We're the only constant in this experiment.

Measles is a virus? If so, and you get it, all you can do is ride it out then? If so, I can see why doctors aren't wanting to see them. Nothing you can do for them I guess.
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It's not so much the virus, it's the complications that can arise. Some of which can be fatal if not severely impairing. We manage the patients to prevent those complications.
 
Well, the underlying legal reason why you are allowed to make the choice is because there actually are some religions that shun modern medicine altogether, and in a country with religious freedom, we allow that.

Now, I think it is patently obvious that some people are claiming that exemption who do not have such a genuinely held belief - they are just morons who still think the vaccine causes autism. Personally, I don't think they should even have to tell that little lie in order to be exempt from vaccination, as such a decision is the best example of Darwin at work that we could possibly ask for. Also, since most of the morons making this decision in the Bay area are leftist liberal elites from Marin County, I don't really shed a tear for them when their own stupidity comes back to bite them in their @$$.

From a personal perspective, both of my kids are fully vaccinated.
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I'm of the opposite opinion, I guess. I understand religious exception and that's all well and good. I think you should have to have a very good reason to not be vaccinating because at the very least, you've helped create another public health foci for disaster. Not only that, but you are putting your own child at significant risk.

Part of the problem is many parents today weren't old enough to remember what the world was like without these vaccines. Most of them have never seen someone with polio or smallpox, let alone a child with polio or smallpox.

I have heard that the main concern for the physicians is that they have waiting rooms full of patients who, since they are presumably already sick, already have weakened immune systems, and they don't want to expose those patients to other already infected patients. I have even heard that some doctors will see unvaccinated patients, but that those patients must be seen in their cars in the parking lot, or the doctor will make a housecall, or something where the unvaccinated patients don't mingle with the vaccinated patients.
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I believe that, mostly because many physicians are of the mindset that even stupid people deserve to be taken care of. I'm sure it's a combination of all of the above that it may be more difficult.
 
the_big_toe said:
Well, the underlying legal reason why you are allowed to make the choice is because there actually are some religions that shun modern medicine altogether, and in a country with religious freedom, we allow that.

Now, I think it is patently obvious that some people are claiming that exemption who do not have such a genuinely held belief - they are just morons who still think the vaccine causes autism. Personally, I don't think they should even have to tell that little lie in order to be exempt from vaccination, as such a decision is the best example of Darwin at work that we could possibly ask for. Also, since most of the morons making this decision in the Bay area are leftist liberal elites from Marin County, I don't really shed a tear for them when their own stupidity comes back to bite them in their @$$.

From a personal perspective, both of my kids are fully vaccinated.



I have heard that the main concern for the physicians is that they have waiting rooms full of patients who, since they are presumably already sick, already have weakened immune systems, and they don't want to expose those patients to other already infected patients. I have even heard that some doctors will see unvaccinated patients, but that those patients must be seen in their cars in the parking lot, or the doctor will make a housecall, or something where the unvaccinated patients don't mingle with the vaccinated patients.
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I tend to agree. This is a California hippy liberal problem. If these kooks think vaccines are bad, let's see how they embrace diphtheria toxin.
 
Gh0st said:
It's not so much the virus, it's the complications that can arise. Some of which can be fatal if not severely impairing. We manage the patients to prevent those complications.
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I didn't mean to minimize the potential complications. I guess I meant if there wasn't much doctors could do in most cases then why expose more people. But obviously if things get worse you need to see someone.

Is there medicine you prescribe out the chute or do you wait to see where it goes? Don't know much about measles since we never really had to de with it for so long.
 
winbypin said:
I didn't mean to minimize the potential complications. I guess I meant if there wasn't much doctors could do in most cases then why expose more people. But obviously if things get worse you need to see someone.

Is there medicine you prescribe out the chute or do you wait to see where it goes? Don't know much about measles since we never really had to de with it for so long.
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Mostly just managing the fever. Measles can cause very high fever and febrile seizures. So mostly aggressively treating fever and preventing seizures. The other symptoms are not overly dangerous.
 
I don't think you can blame this one on politics. From what I've watched and read just as many if not more are paranoid conspiracy theorists and anti-government right wingers like Bachman and Paul.
 
Hippies, the extreme religious right, and middle aged women who get their science from The View and shared Facebook posts.

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Our family is vaccinated and I have no problems with someone else making different choices. Just as I believe that you have a fundamental right to buy and ride a motorcycle, skateboard, Segway, go cart, etc. you also have a right not to do so based on whatever reasons that you want to make.

You can choose to be religious, you can choose not to be. You can choose to be a moral person or you can choose to be someone that has a more open relationship with the definition of 'good'. You also have the right to face whatever judgment occurs based on your choices. You can choose to work and earn your way in life or you can choose not to and let you and your entire family starve to death, I have no problem with people self-selecting to be failures and remove themselves from the gene pool.

You have the right to buy life insurance as well as the right not to. Depending on your circumstances you can choose not to have car or homeowners insurance/ As a free person you have the right to buy or not buy health insur..... okay so bad example. But good example of what happens when government interferes with how you spend your money.
 
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