Undefeated Gibsonburg Could Miss OHSAA Football Playoffs...See Why

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The Dock

Well-known member
Play up and traditionally good schools if you want to improve your chances in future years. Any anger should be directed to your school's athletic department for scheduling. This is like in college an undefeated MAC team who played no one in non-conference games complaining about not being picked for the CFB playoffs.
Thats... not the same thing.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Don't know if it is a matter of Gibsonburgs "poor" schedule as they would, at this moment, qualify in most of the D5 and D6 regions.
Just a tough, tough year for that region.
 

Cali_Eagle

Active member
So, you are saying that without regions, some teams will be in the playoffs will not have a shot at state titles? How exactly does having regions give "everyone from around the state" a shot while no regions does not?

The Regional concept assures that teams from all 4 corners of Ohio will have representation in the playoffs. No one will get omitted because there is nothing around them but small schools which they may play by default. This is in theory it isn't an absolute guarantee. Obviously, if you are "in the playoffs" you have a shot. Teams from say SEO may get omitted from a state-wide ranking system due to lack of population in general and large population centers (there are no big cities in SEO.)

Nobody makes these complaints about the playoffs in West Virginia--where they have never had regions since the playoffs began in the late 1940's.

Can't speak to West Virginia, as I don't follow that State closely.

How do you know that teams like facing locals? How do you know that teams like having rematches?

I don't know it scientifically, I can't prove it. I feel that they do, especially the team that lost the first one. I know my alma mater, Euclid High
will probably play Solon again in the opening round, we lost to them 27-24 during the conference season and I would hope that we will be skyhigh for that one and exact revenge. I feel the same way about Mentor, which crushed us 45-0 and realistically probably will beat us again in the second round or Regional Title game should we get by Solon and one other team. It's what I believe and how I would vote if we were really being asked to decide this issue, rather than just exchanging opinions and ideas on Yappi. No one here has any influence on changing things.

I do not hear any of this outrcy about travel during the West Virginia playoffs. Of course, teams do have more flexibility in scheduling.

I will agree that in Ohio the worst trip possible (Conneaut to SW Hamilton County? Conneaut to Chesapeake?) is really nothing much to complain about. I have lived in California and Nevada and also know other playoff trips in Texas and Western States make Ohio's complaints about travel seem laughable. But everything is relative and to Ohioans trips like those theoretical Conneaut trips seem horrific to Ohioans and that's what counts. It's a major issue and a major barrier to changing the system. I am one native Ohioan who thinks most road trips in Ohio are simply opportunities to get out of one's area, have fun, and see some new places. But I am in an extreme minority here. I am also very familiar with the vast distances in the West that HAVE to be dealt with, Ohioans are not.

Of course, minimizing travel is the only argument that I have heard that can possibly defend the region system. All the other arguments that have been posted have been nonsense.

10-0 teams don't miss the playoffs that often. Usually when they do, it's because they played an unusually weak schedule (for whatever reasons) and it's a fluke. Without benefit of that schedule, chances are those teams would NOT have been undefeated. Changing the system for a few flukes is using an elephant gun to kill a gopher in the backyard. Most people in the state won't be in favor of making major changes for a one-off event. JMHO.
My replies to post # 266. You have to expand the quote to full size to read them, should you care to.
 

Jaws31

Well-known member
All this overreaction to one school not making the playoffs. Its simple. Schedule better OOC. One DV or DIV and this isnt even a conversation. If you lnow your whole conference is D6-D7 then you need to schedule up to ensure that you have a shot at the postseason. If you are happy going 10-0 and sitting home then keep scheduling D6s that have won a total of 3 games over the past 4 seasons. Just don't complain about it. It sucks for the kids but this falls squarely on the AD, not the OHSAA. He creates the schedule, they dont. Play up.
 

tucson

Active member
All this overreaction to one school not making the playoffs. Its simple. Schedule better OOC. One DV or DIV and this isnt even a conversation. If you lnow your whole conference is D6-D7 then you need to schedule up to ensure that you have a shot at the postseason. If you are happy going 10-0 and sitting home then keep scheduling D6s that have won a total of 3 games over the past 4 seasons. Just don't complain about it. It sucks for the kids but this falls squarely on the AD, not the OHSAA. He creates the schedule, they dont. Play up.
It's not just one school. Northwood (D5R18) might also miss out on playoffs at 10-0 due to a change in the Lutheran East vs. Vienna Mathews game which is now a no contest (via Drew Pasteur). They seem to have more of a fighting chance that Gibsonburg at postseason play, but it's still too early to tell. Northwood beat a D2 team this season. Doesn't seem like "playing up" is a guarantee either. Perhaps your very simple solution isn't much of a solution at all. As stated, Gibsonburg would not only make the playoffs in all the other D6 regions, but also several higher up divisions that have weaker regions. D6R23 is an anomaly. It's tough, and some bad luck, and it is what it is, but let's not all pretend on here that we're more qualified AD's sitting at home on our couches than the actual AD's at these schools.
 
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CCHS93

Active member
Having 1 10-0 team not make it can cause some discussions. But having 2 in the same season will, in my opinion, force a change. 2 schools less than 20 miles from each other are going to feel screwed. I don't know what the answer is, but this result will force a change.
 

Jaws31

Well-known member
It's not just one school. Northwood (D5R18) might also miss out on playoffs at 10-0 due to a change in the Lutheran East vs. Vienna Mathews game which is now a no contest (via Drew Pasteur). They seem to have more of a fighting chance that Gibsonburg at postseason play, but it's still too early to tell. Northwood beat a D2 team this season. Doesn't seem like "playing up" is a guarantee either. Perhaps your very simple solution isn't much of a solution at all. As stated, Gibsonburg would not only make the playoffs in all the other D6 regions, but also several higher up divisions that have weaker regions. D6R23 is an anomaly. It's tough, and some bad luck, and it is what it is, but let's not all pretend on here that we're more qualified AD's sitting at home on our couches than the actual AD's at these schools.
The 8 man thing is a whole other can of worms. It actually is fairly simple. If you are smaller school, D6-D7, in a league with the same size schools why would you risk taking a chance on not making the playoffs by scheduling the same exact sized schools in your OOC games? They played a school who has won 3 games in 4 years. I may not be sn AD but even from my couch I can tell you that ain't going to cut it. Easy wins aren't always the answer.
 
Northwood and Gibsonburg should play each other next week just for giggles.
I heard the idea floated postgame. Used to be able to get away with that stuff fifty years ago. A lot of "split leagues" played an interdivisional "bowl" game after the season. OHSAA people get really uptight about "renegade" activities nowadays.
 
Honestly, I feel more guffed about Northwood than Gibsonburg. Gibsonburg legit had eight teams finish in front of them, and there isn't one of them that doesn't deserve a postseason invite. Northwood had the state reverse a forfeit decision, several days after the fact, that caused a team to lose a win that ended up giving them points. That seems more shenanigan-ish than, for the first time that I've found, not having two northern and two southern regions in a D4-to-D7 regional map.
 

FreeFromGreen

Active member
Having 1 10-0 team not make it can cause some discussions. But having 2 in the same season will, in my opinion, force a change. 2 schools less than 20 miles from each other are going to feel screwed. I don't know what the answer is, but this result will force a change.
Northwood: Strength of Schedule = 104 of 107 in Div 5
Gibsonburg: Strength of Schedule = 103 of 105 in Div 6

I think we have the answer
 

Roscoe

Active member
And to think these 2 used to be in the TAAC together. Gibsonburg left for the SBC and they stopped playing. The kicker is they both played 0-10 Woodmore this season.
 

Cali_Eagle

Active member
I heard the idea floated postgame. Used to be able to get away with that stuff fifty years ago. A lot of "split leagues" played an interdivisional "bowl" game after the season. OHSAA people get really uptight about "renegade" activities nowadays.
Playing a conference title game between 2 Divisions of a League is still legal under OHSAA rules as far as I know (witness Cleveland Senate which doesn't even have divisions anymore and Akron City Series). Problem is, to do it, you have to forgo a playoff spot, which no one wants to do.
 
Playing a conference title game between 2 Divisions of a League is still legal under OHSAA rules as far as I know (witness Cleveland Senate which doesn't even have divisions anymore and Akron City Series). Problem is, to do it, you have to forgo a playoff spot, which no one wants to do.
Interesting. Did not know that, thanks.
 
All this overreaction to one school not making the playoffs. Its simple. Schedule better OOC. One DV or DIV and this isnt even a conversation. If you lnow your whole conference is D6-D7 then you need to schedule up to ensure that you have a shot at the postseason. If you are happy going 10-0 and sitting home then keep scheduling D6s that have won a total of 3 games over the past 4 seasons. Just don't complain about it. It sucks for the kids but this falls squarely on the AD, not the OHSAA. He creates the schedule, they dont. Play up.
This argument fails when one considers this: If Gibsonburg were cut and pasted off of the map, and a city with a population of 20,000 or so took its place, with a school in Division III; plays the exact same schedule with the same results, D3 beating up on a lot of losing-record D6 and D7s ... that school displaces Glenville in R10. This, even though all of those other schools are getting probably another 2~2½ points per game won, first and second level. Heck, Gibsonburg's schedule that many of you want to blame the AD for, would've earned a spot in the half of the state in the vaunted D1 category (I don't lead with that because figuring out where divisional boundaries in D1 and D2 is a different animal, so I don't know where they would physically, geographically be.)

But, yes, a hypothetical D1 school could have taken Gibsonburg's schedule, getting 3½ and 4 points at a time, competing with schools getting at least 6 points for a win, with the same ratios expanded out, even though there were so few wins by the teams defeated, in level 2, and made the playoffs in two out of four regions. That isn't complaining--that is a testament to the R23 juggernaut.
 
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Northwood and Gibsonburg had enough points to make the playoffs in Division 1 regions 2 and 4. They would also have made the playoffs in division 2 regions 5 and 7. I'm pretty sure what region you are in matters as much as your "strength of schedule"
 

Qwertyqwerty

Active member
Just have your best teams that didn’t make the playoffs
Playing a conference title game between 2 Divisions of a League is still legal under OHSAA rules as far as I know (witness Cleveland Senate which doesn't even have divisions anymore and Akron City Series). Problem is, to do it, you have to forgo a playoff spot, which no one wants to do.
 

FirestoneFan

Well-known member
This argument fails when one considers this: If Gibsonburg were cut and pasted off of the map, and a city with a population of 20,000 or so took its place, with a school in Division III; plays the exact same schedule with the same results, D3 beating up on a lot of losing-record D6 and D7s ... that school displaces Glenville in R10. This, even though all of those other schools are getting probably another 2~2½ points per game won, first and second level. Heck, Gibsonburg's schedule that many of you want to blame the AD for, would've earned a spot in the half of the state in the vaunted D1 category (I don't lead with that because figuring out where divisional boundaries in D1 and D2 is a different animal, so I don't know where they would physically, geographically be.)

But, yes, a hypothetical D1 school could have taken Gibsonburg's schedule, getting 3½ and 4 points at a time, competing with schools getting at least 6 points for a win, with the same ratios expanded out, even though there were so few wins by the teams defeated, in level 2, and made the playoffs in two out of four conferences. That isn't complaining--that is a testament to the R23 juggernaut.
Hypothetically LOL. Gibsonburg did not do what you say. Hypothetically?
 

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
Bellbrook geographically should be in Division 3 region 12. Instead they are 9th in region 11, with teams like Zanesville, which is 125 miles from Bellbrook. Oh, and if they were in region 12, they would have been 7th. Stop complaining about where you are on the map relative to others. Other teams suffer the same fate due to geography.
 

FirestoneFan

Well-known member
That's what the Senate and City Series do. Other leagues could do that as well but for whatever reason don't. (Have a League "Championship" game between the 2 best teams that don't make the playoffs.)
Yes Akron East beat Buchtel 14-0 this evening but they will play again next week for the Akron City Series championship.
 
This argument fails when one considers this: If Gibsonburg were cut and pasted off of the map, and a city with a population of 20,000 or so took its place, with a school in Division III; plays the exact same schedule with the same results, D3 beating up on a lot of losing-record D6 and D7s ... that school displaces Glenville in R10. This, even though all of those other schools are getting probably another 2~2½ points per game won, first and second level. Heck, Gibsonburg's schedule that many of you want to blame the AD for, would've earned a spot in the half of the state in the vaunted D1 category (I don't lead with that because figuring out where divisional boundaries in D1 and D2 is a different animal, so I don't know where they would physically, geographically be.)

But, yes, a hypothetical D1 school could have taken Gibsonburg's schedule, getting 3½ and 4 points at a time, competing with schools getting at least 6 points for a win, with the same ratios expanded out, even though there were so few wins by the teams defeated, in level 2, and made the playoffs in two out of four regions. That isn't complaining--that is a testament to the R23 juggernaut.
No D1 or D2 could have played that schedule an made the playoffs stop it
 

tom_hsfootball_fan

Well-known member
Half their schedule was against D7 teams. Their opponents amassed only 32 wins total. Losing combination for which the coach and AD can blame only themselves.
 

Bleacher Bum

New member
Half their schedule was against D7 teams. Their opponents amassed only 32 wins total. Losing combination for which the coach and AD can blame only themselves.
Earlier in this thread Gibsonburg's schedule was discussed. A cancellation early in the season left them with few options and commitments to league schedules are made years in advance.
 

algernonsidney

Active member
Play up and traditionally good schools if you want to improve your chances in future years. Any anger should be directed to your school's athletic department for scheduling. This is like in college an undefeated MAC team who played no one in non-conference games complaining about not being picked for the CFB playoffs.
So, why don't the 5-5 teams with less Harbin points have to "play up?"
 
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