Umpires (and fans maybe?) Helping Umpires

thavoice

Well-known member
I just dont understand parents.

It is YOUTH baseball.

YOUTH baseball.

YOUTH baseball.

Why be dix? There is such a great lesson you can teach your kids by how you deal with adversity. Making a richard out of yourself does nothing but make yourself look like a fool and embarrass your kid and bring shame to your family.

For a YOUTH baseball game.

More peeps need to read the Matheny Manifesto...
 

Mutant

Member
Yesterday afternoon I had a young umpire call me, needed a partner for a game. He was very polite, told me he’d take the plate and it was only his second game. 13u baseball. I had nothing going on, told him sure. His mom drove him, he just turned 16. Great guy, looked sharp, knew every had signal, called a great game and had a great pre game talk. Turns out his grandpa helped raise him and he was a long time ump. Good kid and I was impressed.

now I’m off to do 2 games on turf. Hot as heck here
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Yesterday afternoon I had a young umpire call me, needed a partner for a game. He was very polite, told me he’d take the plate and it was only his second game. 13u baseball. I had nothing going on, told him sure. His mom drove him, he just turned 16. Great guy, looked sharp, knew every had signal, called a great game and had a great pre game talk. Turns out his grandpa helped raise him and he was a long time ump. Good kid and I was impressed.

now I’m off to do 2 games on turf. Hot as heck here
If he's not OHSAA certified..... steer him the the right direction. We need kids like this.

Just like coaches' kids or grandkids, umpire kids and grandkids are always way ahead of their peers.
 

Philly_Cat

Well-known member
In our organization, they have teens umpire the Knothole games. The umpire's parent has to be there for the game. Not because the kid has to be supervised, but instead to protect him from parents.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
- When a player brings you a ball at the plate, make sure you say "thank you" loud enough so people within earshot can hear you
Having people within an earshot hear you isn't necessary. We aren't there to impress. That will come with the overall body of work.

- If a catcher rips off his mask to chase a foul ball and you are able to pick up his masks every now and then, do it. If they say thank you, reply you're welcome. If a catcher says nothing to me, I don't pick it up the rest of the game.
So now, you pick the mask up for one but not the other?

Always be professional, especially when someone is not professional towards you.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Sounds like you have a bit of TV Teddy on your game.......

There was, or actually still is I believe, a local ump who is like that on the bigger games. Great guy, I've gone to him with concerns over the years, but his gravitois actions at times are over the top and seems like he believes he needs to put on a show for the fans, players and coaches.


But I digress.



Had a couple games recently with just one umpire, from behind the plate. Did a solid job, wasn't anything real close on the field he has to call so that made it easy on him.


Question to umps.....I know if we had a game in the past where one umpire did not show up for whatever reason we paid the ump who did for both. How do you think umps should be paid if they were the only one there?

I'd say double if the other one was MIA, and if you agreed to do with with one coming in at least 1.5 of the pay.

What say you?
 
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CoachHoversten

Active member
I have had a partner not show and the one coach buried the other payment, I thought about causing a stink but decided against it.

I know the tourneys I work we get a game and a half if we have to do solo.

I think that is fair, the point of paying $100 (50 apiece) is to have two umpires so you pay for better coverage of calls, you don’t get that with solo even if it isn’t their fault.

so I think game and a half is fair
 

AllSports12

Moderator
I don't do it to "impress". It tends to create an atmosphere of respect. I show it and people see/hear it. It tends to come towards me as well. It's icing on the cake for the body of work.

I will pick up a mask for anyone, but if appreciation is not shown, I have a hard time doing it again. Same way in real life.
Who cares if someone hears you? We aren't there to draw attention to ourselves.

As far as the mask, if you pick the mask up for one.......... You must pick it up for the other. ( If you don't, I guarantee you that will draw attention to you that you don't want..... and there goes that icing ;) )
 

CoachHoversten

Active member
Have to agree with All Sports here...a good official is barely noticed. And yes, if you are noticed hopefully it’s for the good things (looking professional, hustling, proper mechanics, applying rules properly in non-normal situations, etc)
 

AllSports12

Moderator
The situation I am referring to be heard is when a kid gets your attention from the dugout area to give you a foul ball. I make sure to say thank you to be heard. Thats the situation. When he comes up to me, by the plate, only the kid can hear me. Type has been misinterpreted.

I will pick up a mask for both kids at first. If there isn't a thank you after I hand it to them, then that's probably it. I would say the chance/situation where I pick up a mask is maybe once or twice a game anyway. It's not a big deal. I have never had a problem with this ever. Not worried about it.
Not sure how anyone can misinterpret "make sure you say "thank you" loud enough so people within earshot can hear you ", but ok... ;)

Not picking up a mask for both catchers is no different than an umpire/official talking to one team's coach/assistant coach during innings/dead ball/or before a game and not talking to the other team's coach/assistant coach. And trust me, it's noticed, as the latter is a common complaint from coaches.

That will do more damage to an official's reputation than someone saying "thank you" so someone can hear you.
 
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AllSports12

Moderator
Question to umps.....I know if we had a game in the past where one umpire did not show up for whatever reason we paid the ump who did for both. How do you think umps should be paid if they were the only one there?

I'd say double if the other one was MIA, and if you agreed to do with with one coming in at least 1.5 of the pay.

What say you?
This is something that should be set by the leagues before the season starts. That way the umpires have the choice to work for that specific league or opt not to.

Personally, I'm in the camp where the solo ump gets both fees. If the no-show umpire is at fault, then he forks over the fee he would have received which then is split between the two teams. If the umpire doesn't pay the fee, then he's not getting any more assignments until he does.
 

CoachHoversten

Active member
All sports, in summer games an ump either gets paid cash at the field or gets paid by assignor later, either way, they wouldn’t ever get the money to then fork over.

I THINK the question was about a team comes with $100 to pay both umps and only one shows, what do they do.

again I think the 100 is done on purpose to get higher quality officiating (fewer holes in 2 man than in 1 man) otherwise they could just schedule 1.

so when one doesn’t show, you aren’t get hit 100 worth of umpiring, but also don’t think 50 is fair bc ump took job thinking it was 2-man and now is working harder.

I think game and a half is a good middle ground, but that’s only my opinion, of which anyone is free to disagree !
 

zebrastripes

Active member
Have to agree with All Sports here...a good official is barely noticed. And yes, if you are noticed hopefully it’s for the good things (looking professional, hustling, proper mechanics, applying rules properly in non-normal situations, etc)
Eh. I know what you're saying, but sometimes you have to take care of business - and that will cause you to be noticed. We have to do our jobs even when it will upset people.

I don't like to work with officials who don't handle their business because "I'm not here to be noticed." It's a cowardly excuse.

Not saying this is you, because I know what you mean. I just think the "we shouldn't be noticed" line is overused.
 

zebrastripes

Active member
Oh, and no rabbit ears.

Please, no rabbit ears. Turn down those hearing aids.
My problem with this phrase is it implies coaches/players should be able to say whatever they want as long as no one hears them. If you don't say stupid/unsportsmanlike crap in the first place you don't have to worry about an umpire having rabbit ears.
 

CoachHoversten

Active member
I just mean that at the end of the day, you should leave a game and barely remember the umpire. That doesn’t mean you don’t hear them, your calls should be heard and confident, that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be seen, when watching a play an umpire in good position will be there, it just means at the end of the day, you can’t recall a terrible call or egregious misapplication of rules.

every close call will get groans from half the fans bc they want the call to go their way, but it is quickly forgotten bc they know you got it right or at worst, it was close enough it’s forgiveable (in their mind)

bad umpires are out of position, don’t know the rules, and this causes them to be noticed for the wrong reasons. Like calling an out that was missed bc they are still standing behind HP, or they show up looking raggedy and unprofessional and their calls get scrutinized immediately bc they don’t appear to care.

that’s all I meant
 

thavoice

Well-known member
My problem with this phrase is it implies coaches/players should be able to say whatever they want as long as no one hears them. If you don't say stupid/unsportsmanlike crap in the first place you don't have to worry about an umpire having rabbit ears.
Nah, not at all.
There is a difference between rabbit ears and allowing coaches to say whatever. When an ump engages fans for what they are 'saying' that does not warrant a response, (like a parent making a statment, and he turning around to explain) or a coach making a comment that you hear hundreds of times that carries no bearing and the ump getting his panties in a bunch.

Times where coaches in the dugout discussing calls and the ump getting rabbit years and interjecting.

There is absolutely a difference between an umpire having rabbit ears and just allowing anything go.
 

zebrastripes

Active member
I just mean that at the end of the day, you should leave a game and barely remember the umpire. That doesn’t mean you don’t hear them, your calls should be heard and confident, that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be seen, when watching a play an umpire in good position will be there, it just means at the end of the day, you can’t recall a terrible call or egregious misapplication of rules.

every close call will get groans from half the fans bc they want the call to go their way, but it is quickly forgotten bc they know you got it right or at worst, it was close enough it’s forgiveable (in their mind)

bad umpires are out of position, don’t know the rules, and this causes them to be noticed for the wrong reasons. Like calling an out that was missed bc they are still standing behind HP, or they show up looking raggedy and unprofessional and their calls get scrutinized immediately bc they don’t appear to care.

that’s all I meant
A lot of "terrible calls" are only terrible because the person making that claim (a fan or coach) doesn't know the rules and/or didn't have the same look the trained umpire had to make the judgment call.

People also seem to think that every ejection is partially or wholly the fault of the umpire who issued it. Instead of criticizing the poor sportsmanship of the ejectee it's assumed the umpire instigated it, has poor game management skills, and/or "just wanted to be noticed." Happens all the time and the accusations come from people who don't know the first thing about umpiring.

That's what I meant. Too many umpires take the "I'm not here to be noticed" way too far and they lose control of their games as a result.
 

zebrastripes

Active member
Nah, not at all.
There is a difference between rabbit ears and allowing coaches to say whatever. When an ump engages fans for what they are 'saying' that does not warrant a response, (like a parent making a statment, and he turning around to explain) or a coach making a comment that you hear hundreds of times that carries no bearing and the ump getting his panties in a bunch.

Times where coaches in the dugout discussing calls and the ump getting rabbit years and interjecting.

There is absolutely a difference between an umpire having rabbit ears and just allowing anything go.
I didn't say anything about engaging fans.

I don't call baseball but every basketball or football official I've worked with who truly has "rabbit ears" works pretty much entirely subvarsity/AAU games. I've never been on a college or good high school varsity game with one of those types of officials, so I think that phrase is overused.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
Rabbit ears.....

Conversations between coaches/coaches, coaches/players, players/players occur constantly during games. We don't hear a damn thing.

When those conversations are about calls that they don't like, those "conversations" many times take place at a higher volume for one reason. >>>> For us to hear the complaining. It's a "cute" attempt to be able to gripe without repercussions.

It's one of the oldest tricks in the book and always is defended with "I wasn't talking to you".

If I can't hear you discussing how you are going to pitch the #4 hitter the rest of the game, I shouldn't be able to hear you complain how bad you think my zone is today.
 

fortfan

Well-known member
Rabbit ears.....
Off topic, I suppose, but reminds me of a situation last summer. I wear hearing aids and sometimes when it's windy they are not a big help. I was coaching 1st when our batter was hit by a pitch. The HPU didn't allow him to go to 1st base because he didn't make an attempt to get out of the way. I thought it was still ball 4 (scoreboard was incorrect....that's my excuse!!) and approached the umpire and said "You aren't calling that a strike are you?' Well, he got pizzed...told the 3rd base coach - head coach - to tell me I can't yell at the HPU from 1st base,....etc...

After the game, I apologized and said it was due to not hearing correctly and that my hearing aids weren't helping in the wind. He said he wished he could afford hearing aids....(LOL)....I didn't say it, but thought "If you could hear what the fans were saying, you might not wish for that."
 

zebrastripes

Active member
Rabbit ears.....

Conversations between coaches/coaches, coaches/players, players/players occur constantly during games. We don't hear a damn thing.

When those conversations are about calls that they don't like, those "conversations" many times take place at a higher volume for one reason. >>>> For us to hear the complaining. It's a "cute" attempt to be able to gripe without repercussions.

It's one of the oldest tricks in the book and always is defended with "I wasn't talking to you".

If I can't hear you discussing how you are going to pitch the #4 hitter the rest of the game, I shouldn't be able to hear you complain how bad you think my zone is today.
You said it better than I could have...

Coaches are not stupid. They know exactly what they are doing when they talk "just loud enough" to be heard by an umpire. Yet umpires are the ones who get too often get accused of "baiting" coaches into ejections.

If you have a problem with a call or something else, ask about it in a respectful manner and 99.9% of the time you aren't going to get the heave-ho. The other 0.1% of the time, you're probably dealing with one of the career subvarsity umpires I mentioned above.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
You said it better than I could have...

Coaches are not stupid. They know exactly what they are doing when they talk "just loud enough" to be heard by an umpire. Yet umpires are the ones who get too often get accused of "baiting" coaches into ejections.

If you have a problem with a call or something else, ask about it in a respectful manner and 99.9% of the time you aren't going to get the heave-ho. The other 0.1% of the time, you're probably dealing with one of the career subvarsity umpires I mentioned above.
When I bring up the ole rabbit ears I am being inclusive of when a coach makes a single comment, not even necessarily for the umpire to hear, or a fan making a single comment, and having the umpire feeling they need to engage them on every instance.


Was at a game last summer. A pitch that was very borderline.....one fan behind the plate said the other "is that outside"? Mind you, the HP is very lose to the backstop. The ump turns and makes comments. Any thing a coach or fan said, he felt he needed to justify his call.

It just kept festering the whole game.



We all have seen umps who get overly sensitive at a coaches comments. The best let most of the comments roll off their backs on calls, but there is a very small, select few, who hear everything and feel they need to talk/argue/justify themselves....
 

CoachHoversten

Active member
Fair points, but I created this thread hoping to help umpires improve. So perhaps an ump reading this thinks “yeah I do that”, what is your advice? Bc to some, they prob think it has to be all or nothing, how do you pick and choose when to react?

so in the spirit of this thread, I’ll start:

1) I try not to listen at all, focusing on the pitcher, or watching fielders warm up (practice your read steps on bases, watch how catcher receives the ball, etc) helps you not even hear most stuff

2) what you do hear, anything that doesn’t attack a person, just let it go. Every close call is wrong for 50% of people so let them go. Having confidence in yourself helps, I’ve had people chirping behind me about a rule that I know I got right and they knew nothing about, be so easy to turn around and justify myself, but there’s no point. I know I was right so I could care less if they think otherwise.

3) so what do you respond to? Personal attacks. “Go back to your day job”, “my seeing eye dog could call the game better than this clown”. Couple weeks ago, my partner was wearing a mask bc her husband is on chemo, she had a banger at first, and I hear from the dugout “she should take that mask off so she can see better”. I shut that down real quick and told the coach the only reason No one was tossed was bc I didn’t know who said it, so this was their official warning as a team and if I heard something like that again, he (head coach) was gone and so was the player if I Could determine who said it. Gripe about the calls all you want, but don’t attack the actual person on a human level.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
3) so what do you respond to? Personal attacks. “Go back to your day job”, “my seeing eye dog could call the game better than this clown”. Couple weeks ago, my partner was wearing a mask bc her husband is on chemo, she had a banger at first, and I hear from the dugout “she should take that mask off so she can see better”. I shut that down real quick and told the coach the only reason No one was tossed was bc I didn’t know who said it, so this was their official warning as a team and if I heard something like that again, he (head coach) was gone and so was the player if I Could determine who said it. Gripe about the calls all you want, but don’t attack the actual person on a human level.
That's a "who said that?.... your manager is leaving if nobody fesses up!!"

Embarrass the crap out of them. The culprit will fess up, and he will be leaving.

They don't get a freebie for that kind of personal garbage.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Fair points, but I created this thread hoping to help umpires improve. So perhaps an ump reading this thinks “yeah I do that”, what is your advice? Bc to some, they prob think it has to be all or nothing, how do you pick and choose when to react?

so in the spirit of this thread, I’ll start:

1) I try not to listen at all, focusing on the pitcher, or watching fielders warm up (practice your read steps on bases, watch how catcher receives the ball, etc) helps you not even hear most stuff

2) what you do hear, anything that doesn’t attack a person, just let it go. Every close call is wrong for 50% of people so let them go. Having confidence in yourself helps, I’ve had people chirping behind me about a rule that I know I got right and they knew nothing about, be so easy to turn around and justify myself, but there’s no point. I know I was right so I could care less if they think otherwise.

3) so what do you respond to? Personal attacks. “Go back to your day job”, “my seeing eye dog could call the game better than this clown”. Couple weeks ago, my partner was wearing a mask bc her husband is on chemo, she had a banger at first, and I hear from the dugout “she should take that mask off so she can see better”. I shut that down real quick and told the coach the only reason No one was tossed was bc I didn’t know who said it, so this was their official warning as a team and if I heard something like that again, he (head coach) was gone and so was the player if I Could determine who said it. Gripe about the calls all you want, but don’t attack the actual person on a human level.
Just toss someone even if the wrong person. Happened to me once. The players, other coaches and the asst that was the offender got a good laugh out of it
To play a joke on the asst who shoulda been tossed, he was told I had to sit two games and go to anger management classes and when I missed the next game (due to work) he fell for it hook, line and sinker!
 

Mutant

Member
I was behind the plate tonight 16/17u game. Bases loaded, 0 outs, third inning, 2-2, infield in. Batter pops it a mile high towards first base line. I call infield fly if it’s fair. Ball lands a foot on the outfield grass in fair play. Place went nuts yelling at me, coach was very close to getting tossed. Kept saying over and over if a player has to turn and run for a ball it can’t be infield fly. I stood my ground and still think I made the right call. Bless her heart, my wife just happened to stop by to make sure I had enough to drink. She got to hear all the wonderful things said about me. She did tell me I looked very cute though!! Made me laugh
 
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