Two Officials for JV Game

Logndog said:
That’s up to the individual and their fortitude?
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If the goal is more officials then the option that gets more officials would be the wise choice.

But most people that think in terms of utopian absolutes will never budge from the idea that their idea is clearly the best if everyone else would just follow their lead
 
I'd say it's the "rare" thing that happens, but when it does, it becomes magnified in contest.

I've never been threatened, but I've been told I suck, I'm terrible, etc. - Probably deserved it (and if I didn't in that particular game, I'm sure it was a make-up for a call I made some other day in life.

I don't worry about threats, etc. If it happens, there are protocals (AD escorts you to car, police can be called in if needed, etc) - I'd say the real issues come from (1) pay, (2) availability (making contests in this busy world can be difficult for people who have full time jobs, families, etc), and (3) laziness. If people wanted to make some extra spending money its a great idea to officiate but people don't want to "side hustle" like they used to.
 
Logndog said:
Maybe I’m privileged, but I have never heard anyone physically threaten an official at a game. That’s what’s wrong with the country, everyone gets offended by someone else's words…. Maybe I’m from a different time, but you can call me what you want and I’ll laugh at you. This comes along with the every kid gets a trophy mentality. I just attended the game at ND and there were plenty of yelling at the refs on both sides. Those officials never missed a beat? If someone is that affected by the crowd, maybe they should find something else to do. I think the crowds were way worse in the 70’s and 80’s imo.
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I think you are more privileged than you know. I don't mean that as a slam of you - there are pockets in the population that still have some modicum of decency, and maybe you are in one of those pockets. I hope you are. The reality too is that younger officials don't have the same "you can call me what you want and I'll laugh at you" mentality. I share that mentality with you (parents/fans were not why I stopped officiating), but I am 35 years older than the incoming officials, who were either raised to not accept such berating or who are the ones doing much of the berating. Being an official, or a professional in any calling, does not create the same level of respect that it did in the 70s and 80s, from my experiences.

In other words, experienced officials share the "roll off my back" mentality. Newer/younger officials, not so much.
 
Sykotyk said:
If the goal is more officials then the option that gets more officials would be the wise choice.

But most people that think in terms of utopian absolutes will never budge from the idea that their idea is clearly the best if everyone else would just follow their lead
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Well, there is no utopia and maybe you should considering budging a bit in the interest of resolve..
 
cincifbfan said:
I disagree. Most bad behavior is from fans that don't know the rules. The bad behavior also tends to come from fans who are intoxicated. Schools need to stop letting drunks into games and get rid of unruly fans right away. That even includes their own student sections. There's no reason to be abusive to officials and to allow the kind of conduct I see regularly at high school games.
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I don't disagree, but do feel we need to define what unruly actually is. Some may feel it is common sense but the standard needs spelled out so people understand where that line is. Once that line is laid out, get to enforcing.
 
cmonman said:
If people wanted to make some extra spending money its a great idea to officiate but people don't want to "side hustle" like they used to.
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More people have a side hustle now than ever before. Even people I know that make great money have side hustles because there's been too much economic uncertainty over the past 15 or so years. There is just more opportunity for side hustle today than there used to be.
 
Forepar said:
I think you are more privileged than you know. I don't mean that as a slam of you - there are pockets in the population that still have some modicum of decency, and maybe you are in one of those pockets. I hope you are. The reality too is that younger officials don't have the same "you can call me what you want and I'll laugh at you" mentality. I share that mentality with you (parents/fans were not why I stopped officiating), but I am 35 years older than the incoming officials, who were either raised to not accept such berating or who are the ones doing much of the berating. Being an official, or a professional in any calling, does not create the same level of respect that it did in the 70s and 80s, from my experiences.

In other words, experienced officials share the "roll off my back" mentality. Newer/younger officials, not so much.
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I think part of this is because the vitriol goes to severe so fast. We got yelled at for my entire career, but never until recently did officials get followed to cars or approached like they are now. There is a difference. Add in video, it's a way different world.
 
AllSports12 said:
Baloney.....

There are no fan bases that are more rules knowledgeable than the other. Fans are just that, fans...... They want the calls to go their way for their team..... period.
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According to you…you act as though you have polled every fan base as to their knowledge…heck, maybe you really are the sports know it all you project to be?!
 
smurfyeah19 said:
They need a draw though. No one is doing this for the money, it's a cool thing to do in the Fall in all honesty and challenging both athletically and mentally
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I’m not arguing officials (of which I am one, not for football) shouldn’t get more. I’d love to make more, but the fact is, most officials that do it long term are doing it bc they love the sport they officiate. The people who quit because it isn’t worth it, the abuse, etc, a few extra bucks won’t make them stay.

And since you’re talking about scholastic schools that use taxpayer money and sports is simply an expense, at best you’ll get exactly that, a few more dollars.

The money rarely offsets or validates the time, equipment, travel; and time away from family. It’s a passion. A few extra bucks, even $25 a game (a significant % increase) won’t impact the shortage other than maybe slow the bleeding.

We need a way, whether it’s the officials or associations or state or schools, to get kids involved at no cost. Tell a kid who is interested in officiating they need to spend several hundred up front in equipment costs, pay $75 to get state certified, pay one or more associations whatever their dues are, and your reward will be some MS games that pay peanuts and may not have enough partners. That passion faded quickly.

Get them started for free and let them do a few games and make a few bucks and they’ll be hooked.

My son is a prime example, at 13 he started umpiring with me and some others. I bought him all the nicest things; what I use for college ball, and he had to pay me back $10 per game fee until it was paid off.

One weekend he did ten games of youth ball at $50 a pop, he pocketed $400 and paid me back $100, went and bought a brand new bicycle with his cash, he’s been hooked since and will start college officiating this year.

And the other problem is the money is in youth and club sports, scholastic doesn’t pay anything bc it’s taxpayer money. I can do a youth wrestling tourney from 9-4 at $35 an hour cash and pocket a quick $250 or I can do an all day 2 day tournament for a HS where skin checks start at 2pm on Friday and 8am Saturday and I’m working until midnight Friday and 9pm Saturday and make $400 digitally with taxes and wait a week or two for payment.

Tough call.
 
The other problem is fans/coaches don’t understand that officials directly correlate to the level of sport. Even great HS players would get killed playing college players and professionals (pick a sport, not just football. Pretty sure the top HS hitters in Ohio strike out against MLB pitching), but HS officials are expected to be as good as professionals.

When was the last time you watched an NFL or NCAA football game without several calls going to review and multiple of those being overturned?

Yet HS officials making $80-90 who have day jobs and took one class must have missed that call bc they’re fat, or lazy, or terrible.

Make it make sense.

I umpire collegiate baseball, and some professional baseball (Indy ball), and I did a 13u game a couple years ago, just to umpire with my son. I made a 100% correct call on batters INT, textbook int, but everyone lost their mind. One dad approached me and said “you need to learn the rules and get some training”. As if all the usual 13u umpires have so much more…

My son, when he was 14, had a fan tell him to do the world a favor and kill himself. I’m shocked he stuck out the vocation after that but he did. That also was on a 13u game pool play game.

Money isn’t the issue, irrational attitudes towards officials is
 
Jackson HS has a terrific officiating class that “sells out” every year and kids leave the class with OHSAA certification. I’ve read other schools are starting to do it as well .

The kids are coming, so your part to help
Make sure they stay.
 
Logndog said:
According to you…you act as though you have polled every fan base as to their knowledge…heck, maybe you really are the sports know it all you project to be?!
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Been around long enough to know that fan bases (your claim) aren’t rules knowledgeable.

Take a gander at any fan site and you will see that 98% haven’t a clue about the rules .

Don’t need to poll the fan bases to know that. And I suspect that if I did…..

The 98% was being generous.
 
umpire16 said:
I think part of this is because the vitriol goes to severe so fast. We got yelled at for my entire career, but never until recently did officials get followed to cars or approached like they are now. There is a difference. Add in video, it's a way different world.
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This is by far the best post I've seen. It just goes to Stephen A Smith level meltdown so fast, and especially at the lower levels where you aren't going to locker rooms with police escorts at half time and after the game things can get really dicey.
 
AllSports12 said:
Been around long enough to know that fan bases (your claim) aren’t rules knowledgeable.

Take a gander at any fan site and you will see that 98% haven’t a clue about the rules .

Don’t need to poll the fan bases to know that. And I suspect that if I did…..

The 98% was being generous.
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You’re hearing from roughly 5% of the crowd. The 95% who doesn’t give you guys grief either a) is knowledgeable or b) knows what they don’t know so they shut their mouths.
 
Logndog said:
According to you…you act as though you have polled every fan base as to their knowledge…heck, maybe you really are the sports know it all you project to be?!
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All fan bases are trash… Every single one of them have women who can’t shut there traps about refs and then husbands are forced to jump in or face the wrath at home after games.

#Facts
 
Sykotyk said:
With how lax the chain crews are at most games I wouldn't put much weight on where the ball gets spotted either. Too many times if the play ends near a hashmark the ball gets spotted exactly at the hashmark when it's a first down. Makes things easier.

The stupidest thing I have ever seen though was after a touchback, on the first set of downs, they actually measured to see if the runner got to the 30 yard line.
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* Spotting the ball after a 1st down is the job of an official. The chain crew sets the chains after the official spots the ball.
* Placing the ball on a yard line after a 1st down is a mechanic OHSAA tells their officials to do.
 
smurfyeah19 said:
No, no. I'm saying those are usually the only fouls you call. Sure other things like that can happen, but by and large you do not have the intensity of play or size of playbook that causes all of those fouls on a Friday. Need to be lenient as well with that age group, do everything possible for instance before the play to get 7 on the LOS and help them out.
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100% It's not uncommon for JV and frosh officials tell receivers, OLs and DLs to move up or back so they won't be out of formation or encroach.

smurfyeah19 said:
A lot of the problem is just timing. 10 AM on Saturday? 4-5 PM on a Thursday? Those aren't ideal times for most people's schedules. That's really what it's coming down to, the spread offense is pushing the older officials out sooner and significant sub varsity time is needed before you're ready for a Friday night. Newer officials should realistically be doing at least a dozen JH/JV contests to prepare themselves adequately for the speed and everything that comes with a varsity game. That's a big problem right now, I've seen first years on the field on their mechanics are just not there. It leads to some big mess-ups.
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With the way OHSAA trains football officials today, I'd say a new official needs 2-3 years before they're ready for Varsity.
 
FBFan101 said:
* Spotting the ball after a 1st down is the job of an official. The chain crew sets the chains after the official spots the ball.
* Placing the ball on a yard line after a 1st down is a mechanic OHSAA tells their officials to do.
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I meant more when they do the theatrical "let's measure, and then pinch the chain and move the ball over to the hash mark and set it". There's no precision in the chain crew clipping that chain right at a fully extended chain right at the intersecting 5-yard marker.
 
cincifbfan said:
Most officials should lose weight, to argue otherwise is crazy. Too many officials do the waddle walk and simply can't run. That's a huge problem. There should be some accountability over blowing calls. Too many calls are blown and there's no recourse.
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I've seen some really good overweight officials. I've seen some really bad skinny officials. The R and CJ typically don't have to move that much during a down. I'd rather have a good overweight R/CJ than a poor skinny one.

cincifbfan said:
With that being said, schools MUST hold patrons accountable for abusive behaviors. You cannot let them continue the way it's going now. A PA announcement doesn't cut it. And schools should ensure they have escorts to their vehicles after the game. It's unreal that something so simple doesn't happen.
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Amen. There's also the lack of officiating knowledge and not realizing HS rules are different than college/pro rules.
 
FBFan101 said:
I've seen some really good overweight officials. I've seen some really bad skinny officials. The R and CJ typically don't have to move that much during a down. I'd rather have a good overweight R/CJ than a poor skinny one.


Amen. There's also the lack of officiating knowledge and not realizing HS rules are different than college/pro rules.
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That's the big one. Hearing "IT'S UNCATCHABLE" for the thousandth time.
 
Sykotyk said:
That's the big one. Hearing "IT'S UNCATCHABLE" for the thousandth time.
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That and everyone in high school or lower trying to copy the Philadelphia Eagles' "Tush Push" and not understanding that is a penalty.

To go along with P-I, everyone thinks there is a 5 yard bump rule which does not exist either in high school.
 
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