Hoosier Parent
Member
Neither will the oldest OE girls.
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Tryouts and Mergers - Rumors
- Thread starter coachg
- Start date
Neither will the oldest OE girls.
Neither will the oldest OE girls.
That’s a shame. Rewind two years and both teams were either winning National Championships ( CUP ) or vying for one ( OE U16). BP leaving, the demise of the CUP brand, formation of the DA and soccerlics ( soccer politics) all combined to usher in today’s issues with both clubs competing on the National stage.
That’s a shame. Rewind two years and both teams were either winning National Championships ( CUP ) or vying for one ( OE U16). BP leaving, the demise of the CUP brand, formation of the DA and soccerlics ( soccer politics) all combined to usher in today’s issues with both clubs competing on the National stage.
Seems to me with the addition of DA that more players are being seen on a national level.
Seems to me with the addition of DA that more players are being seen on a national level.
Seen, I agree, but I spoke of competing not being evaluated.
buckshooter5
Active member
DA is like Charmin.
RonaldoClone
New member
Has every club reached full maturity and all of them running stable operations now?
No mergers, player movement, new clubs, 'hurting clubs', financial problems.
Other than elite fc (2nd year?) adding girls, i guess everyone is great!
happy cincinnati
-lurker no more
No mergers, player movement, new clubs, 'hurting clubs', financial problems.
Other than elite fc (2nd year?) adding girls, i guess everyone is great!
happy cincinnati
-lurker no more
Has every club reached full maturity and all of them running stable operations now?
No mergers, player movement, new clubs, 'hurting clubs', financial problems.
Other than elite fc (2nd year?) adding girls, i guess everyone is great!
happy Cincinnati
-lurker no more
It has been a quiet tryout season from a Club/Coaches/Mergers perspective. I think Cincy Elite had a few girls teams the first season, didn't they? They have some pretty good boys teams at nearly every age group though.
DA is like Charmin.
I guess they wipe your butts all over the field all the time?
I could be wrong but I think the oldest DA is done June 1. They won’t qualify for The tournament.
I think they will qualify. What makes you think a team like that won't. My youngest daughter will soon be at that level. It was when we moved from Toledo to the Bay area.
lovesallsports
Member
I think they will qualify. What makes you think a team like that won't. My youngest daughter will soon be at that level. It was when we moved from Toledo to the Bay area.
Because they didn’t qualify. They are done for the year.
Well, the ones that were also playing OE and OP aren't done yet... And I heard that the local team is letting the oldest kids play high school too next year? Is that true?Because they didn’t qualify. They are done for the year.
Hoosier Parent
Member
Well, the ones that were also playing OE and OP aren't done yet... And I heard that the local team is letting the oldest kids play high school too next year? Is that true?
I think it would be too little too late, I think the annual migration from DA to OE happened again this year.
lovesallsports
Member
Well, the ones that were also playing OE and OP aren't done yet... And I heard that the local team is letting the oldest kids play high school too next year? Is that true?
Yes. From what I heard they were not going to have a older team. Everyone left and didn’t want to do it. So they were able to get permission to play high school and be a trial team this year for playing high school and DA. This allowed them to get the kids from the CDA premier team to play DA. The DA still took some hits and lost some good players. Heard they just wanted something different. The past year with the older team has been tough. They have had four directors and three coaches in two years.
Hoosier Parent
Member
Two years ago, the Indy Fire DA let their girls play high school.
lovesallsports
Member
Two years ago, the Indy Fire DA let their girls play high school.
Yeah and then the next year they left the DA and went back to ECNL.
Hoosier Parent
Member
Yeah and then the next year they left the DA and went back to ECNL.
Yeah, it actually changed the Indiana Club hierarchy. Indy Fire was somewhat successful in ECNL at multiple age groups, FC Pride had one team in National League (2001), the rest were mired in various mid level of MRL Premier II or lower, with other clubs like Indy Premier.
When Fire went DA a bunch of girl left for FC Pride. Pride is now more successful in ECN.
Similar story could be said for CUP, KHA, and OE locally. CUP and KHA were arguably the dominant clubs across the vast majority of age groups (with minor exception). DA comes along and more or less decimates CUP and KHA, then DA withers with better players leaving for OE.... now CUP is a glimmer of what it once was and heaven knows where the heck KHA is... Oddly enough, OE still is really not that competitive.Yeah, it actually changed the Indiana Club hierarchy. Indy Fire was somewhat successful in ECNL at multiple age groups, FC Pride had one team in National League (2001), the rest were mired in various mid level of MRL Premier II or lower, with other clubs like Indy Premier.
When Fire went DA a bunch of girl left for FC Pride. Pride is now more successful in ECN.
#debacle
Similar story could be said for CUP, KHA, and OE locally. CUP and KHA were arguably the dominant clubs across the vast majority of age groups (with minor exception). DA comes along and more or less decimates CUP and KHA, then DA withers with better players leaving for OE.... now CUP is a glimmer of what it once was and heaven knows where the heck KHA is... Oddly enough, OE still is really not that competitive.
#debacle
Maybe it’s. . . not a result of the league or the kids. Huh.
Hoosier Parent
Member
Similar story could be said for CUP, KHA, and OE locally. CUP and KHA were arguably the dominant clubs across the vast majority of age groups (with minor exception). DA comes along and more or less decimates CUP and KHA, then DA withers with better players leaving for OE.... now CUP is a glimmer of what it once was and heaven knows where the heck KHA is... Oddly enough, OE still is really not that competitive.
#debacle
What's competitive? Final four, top 10, 25? OE as a club has finished in the top 25 in the ECNL for the three years I've been around. I usually have to break that out for coachg a couple times of year. We could argue CUP/KHA dominance vs OE but that just leads to a bunch of vitriolic posts from Buck and dumb responses from coach.
Overall Ohio (And ostensibly the Ohio South/Cincy area) finishes around the top 5 in the country in D1 commits per capita. If you think area clubs aren't competitive it's probably you, not the clubs.
What's competitive? Final four, top 10, 25? OE as a club has finished in the top 25 in the ECNL for the three years I've been around. I usually have to break that out for coachg a couple times of year. We could argue CUP/KHA dominance vs OE but that just leads to a bunch of vitriolic posts from Buck and dumb responses from coach.
Overall Ohio (And ostensibly the Ohio South/Cincy area) finishes around the top 5 in the country in D1 commits per capita. If you think area clubs aren't competitive it's probably you, not the clubs.
Yes, Cincinnati is competitive nationally for soccer. I have never denied that what I have said is that if you want to claim to be the best beat the best. OE chooses to not play State Cup. Many ECNL teams come to Cincinnati and play friendlies against CUP / KHA teams some of which finish higher than OE in the ECNL so I guess other ECNL Clubs see value in it to bad OE doesn't. I am sure this will bring out the OE chest thumpers but as I have said time and time again want to be the best beat the best anything else is just talk.
Hoosier Parent
Member
When was the last time an ECNL team that placed higher than OE came to Cinci for a friendly with CUP/KHA?
Don't get me wrong coachg, I don't think it's just local clubs. This is one area I found frustrating with OE. Doug seemed to prefer soft competition in open showcases. Not only did we avoid the TFA 01 and CDA national league teams at the OE Spring showcase, but we were the only ECNL team in the second division (Oddly the top division was all ECNL plus one non-ECNL team). It was frustrating as a parent/fan because I thought we could use the competition to get ready for spring season, but then again I'm a parent/fan and not privvy to Doug's thought process.
Don't get me wrong coachg, I don't think it's just local clubs. This is one area I found frustrating with OE. Doug seemed to prefer soft competition in open showcases. Not only did we avoid the TFA 01 and CDA national league teams at the OE Spring showcase, but we were the only ECNL team in the second division (Oddly the top division was all ECNL plus one non-ECNL team). It was frustrating as a parent/fan because I thought we could use the competition to get ready for spring season, but then again I'm a parent/fan and not privvy to Doug's thought process.
04 FC Pride came to play the 04 DA team and put up 5 on them in quick order.
Internationals brought their 05 team to play the DA 04 team and their 06 team to play the DA's 05 team.
Have not heard much outside of that. I did talk with an 04 parent who told me In order to play more competitive games than what's available in the DA the 04 team is scheduled to play some ECNL friendlies next season.
Internationals brought their 05 team to play the DA 04 team and their 06 team to play the DA's 05 team.
Have not heard much outside of that. I did talk with an 04 parent who told me In order to play more competitive games than what's available in the DA the 04 team is scheduled to play some ECNL friendlies next season.
04 FC Pride came to play the 04 DA team and put up 5 on them in quick order.
Internationals brought their 05 team to play the DA 04 team and their 06 team to play the DA's 05 team.
Have not heard much outside of that. I did talk with an 04 parent who told me In order to play more competitive games than what's available in the DA the 04 team is scheduled to play some ECNL friendlies next season.
as it's always been in Cincinnati, there are too many clubs and the players are just spread too thin across them. Go look at Regional results (USYSA) of the Ohio South teams and you can pretty much see that once outside of Ohio South, our "best" don't compete well with most everyone else's "best". I don't purport to have answers, but it has been a long-standing problem that CUP and some others tried to solve way back when CUSL was formed ("Cincinnati UNITED Soccer League") but ego's and politics always get in the way of good soccer.
belied dat
Active member
as it's always been in Cincinnati, there are too many clubs and the players are just spread too thin across them. Go look at Regional results (USYSA) of the Ohio South teams and you can pretty much see that once outside of Ohio South, our "best" don't compete well with most everyone else's "best". I don't purport to have answers, but it has been a long-standing problem that CUP and some others tried to solve way back when CUSL was formed ("Cincinnati UNITED Soccer League") but ego's and politics always get in the way of good soccer.
I would argue the other way. Not enough clubs and the ones we have are too big.
Average European club is 200 players -- from youth to first team. There's no such thing as a 2,000+ club. Definitely no 13,000+ club (North Carolina FC, Charlotte Independence, Tampa Bay, etc.).
There should be one incredible league in Cincinnati and no one really needs to travel outside the city/area (including NKY) to compete. With the amount of kids playing, travel is ludicrous. Sure, it's okay to have a team that may compete at the regional/national level, but that should be very limited.
I would argue the other way. Not enough clubs and the ones we have are too big.
Average European club is 200 players -- from youth to first team. There's no such thing as a 2,000+ club. Definitely no 13,000+ club (North Carolina FC, Charlotte Independence, Tampa Bay, etc.).
There should be one incredible league in Cincinnati and no one really needs to travel outside the city/area (including NKY) to compete. With the amount of kids playing, travel is ludicrous. Sure, it's okay to have a team that may compete at the regional/national level, but that should be very limited.
It's a reasonable argument, and on your second point, I would say we are already there and I completely agree there should be one league that is 'well run' with all the clubs having a relatively equal say in how it is run. I have seen two iterations of attempts made but right now between two national organizations, State Leagues, multi-level regional leagues (Do we really need 3 or more divisions in a Regional League?), ECNL, NPL, 3 or more choices of select leagues in Cincinnati alone, we are headed the wrong direction. If a team can't consistently beat every team in their city, then why play teams outside of it? $$$
On your first point, it is hard to compare. Those 200 player clubs usually have a first team that is helping fund those youth teams because they are a professional team. Very rare in the US. We have different problems IMO to solve. Last check I think there were around 50 clubs in Cincinnati that had some level of "select" soccer. I still would argue that is too many and keeps the area from putting competitive teams on the field at Regional events.
belied dat
Active member
It's a reasonable argument, and on your second point, I would say we are already there and I completely agree there should be one league that is 'well run' with all the clubs having a relatively equal say in how it is run. I have seen two iterations of attempts made but right now between two national organizations, State Leagues, multi-level regional leagues (Do we really need 3 or more divisions in a Regional League?), ECNL, NPL, 3 or more choices of select leagues in Cincinnati alone, we are headed the wrong direction. If a team can't consistently beat every team in their city, then why play teams outside of it? $$$
On your first point, it is hard to compare. Those 200 player clubs usually have a first team that is helping fund those youth teams because they are a professional team. Very rare in the US. We have different problems IMO to solve. Last check I think there were around 50 clubs in Cincinnati that had some level of "select" soccer. I still would argue that is too many and keeps the area from putting competitive teams on the field at Regional events.
Not all clubs feed into professional 1st teams. Nonetheless, maybe THAT is exactly what the US needs? More of these clubs to continue to offer programming beyond the U18/19 level? The majority of adults have become more and more sedentary. Could be a perfect opportunity to continue growing the soccer culture that's seriously lacking.
Imagine if all these clubs continued to provide opportunities for people to play? Instead of a lackluster system in the US, we could have a truly thriving pyramid.
Or....one could fairly reasonably argue that the current system here in the states works pretty darn well. I mean the ECNL started what 12 years ago, and for the last 6+ years our ladies have been the best in the world. Other than Jilly getting out coached in the Olympics.
Maybe they should follow our model. And how many of the younger foreign players are playing or did play college ball against so many top level ECNL girls?
Food for thought...
Maybe they should follow our model. And how many of the younger foreign players are playing or did play college ball against so many top level ECNL girls?
Food for thought...
Hoosier Parent
Member
Or....one could fairly reasonably argue that the current system here in the states works pretty darn well. I mean the ECNL started what 12 years ago, and for the last 6+ years our ladies have been the best in the world. Other than Jilly getting out coached in the Olympics.
Maybe they should follow our model. And how many of the younger foreign players are playing or did play college ball against so many top level ECNL girls?
Food for thought...
This^^^^.
Or....one could fairly reasonably argue that the current system here in the states works pretty darn well. I mean the ECNL started what 12 years ago, and for the last 6+ years our ladies have been the best in the world. Other than Jilly getting out coached in the Olympics.
Maybe they should follow our model. And how many of the younger foreign players are playing or did play college ball against so many top level ECNL girls?
Food for thought...
Looks like to me the DA is also getting a lot of attention for the college coaches especially locally.
belied dat
Active member
Or....one could fairly reasonably argue that the current system here in the states works pretty darn well. I mean the ECNL started what 12 years ago, and for the last 6+ years our ladies have been the best in the world. Other than Jilly getting out coached in the Olympics.
Maybe they should follow our model. And how many of the younger foreign players are playing or did play college ball against so many top level ECNL girls?
Food for thought...
Yeah, USSF has done a great job of providing for the women. That's why lawsuits and CBA arguments, etc. continue.
How about the absolute sham of a professional league system for the women for how many years? What about the lack of USOC for women?
We can thank Title IX for much of the success for how many years? And, yes, we can also thank other systems that have screwed the USSF system for helping progress women's soccer much earlier than most of the international counterparts.