Toledo City League

Spartan87

Active member
IB,

I agree 100%. City League used to have some great teams and great rivalries...now it seems they don't have the kids out anymore or they are headed to the private schools.

And yes D1 and D2 are HORRIBLE in NW Ohio this year.
Granted NW Ohio is down in the top two divisions, but there are a handful of really good teams. In D2 great for Shawnee that they will only have to play either Sandusky or Rogers. I'm thinking they can beat both. Shawnee is a very smart team and Mangas is always around the ball. The role players do just that and they have the size to bang on the boards.
 

Smalls

Active member
When I watched Sandusky they didn't look overly big or quick outside of Staveskie. Their loss to Norwalk who is a little down tells me they could struggle to hang around by the 4th quarter. Rogers by 10-12.

Perrysburg vs Start should be a tight game. Start will have the quickness advantage, but will need to keep Pburg off the glass. Sizemore, Hosler and Kilbride give Pburg 3 big, strong, athletic guys who can play above the rim. It was a 2 point Start victory last year. Perrysburg has everyone back while Start lost a lot from last year. Start has the better wins this year, but I'll still take Perrysburg by 4-5.
Great calls.......no Vegas for me.

Start does a great job of making the other team uncomfortable. If your guards are not quick and strong you are in for a long night vs Start.
 

Fayette79

Member
Granted NW Ohio is down in the top two divisions, but there are a handful of really good teams. In D2 great for Shawnee that they will only have to play either Sandusky or Rogers. I'm thinking they can beat both. Shawnee is a very smart team and Mangas is always around the ball. The role players do just that and they have the size to bang on the boards.
Sorry...I always forget that Lima is considered NW Ohio...I always think of them as Central Ohio because they are about an hour and a half south of me.

Yes Shawnee is very good and Lima Senior as well...but as far as the Toledo area for D1 and D2 basketball is really bad.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Great calls.......no Vegas for me.
You put it out there and make the calls, no shame in that.

If you'd noticed Sandusky had a 6'4" 240 lb athletic post, that might have changed your perspective. Did mine after the fact. Seems to me there was another scoring under the basket, Simms? Something like that. And they certainly weren't slow. Very experienced ball club Sandusky. Very active, no standing around for them. Planning for them tournament time might be a bit easier.

I can't find a single video longer than a minute on Shawnee.
 

boater

Member
I don't think NW Ohio is down in D2 - D1 Absolutely, but we have 3 top 10 teams AP teams - all legit ( Shawnee #1 , Rogers and Sandusky tied for the 8th spot in D2.) I assume ASVSM is the prohibitive favorite, but never say never as I recall Defiance knocking off both Dunbar and Cleveland Central Catholic in what was "deemed" upsets - but they flat out beat both of them? As a matter of fact, outside of D1 I think this is the best chance NW Ohio has had to take home the championship in 3 divisions in quite some time?
 

Smalls

Active member
I don't think NW Ohio is down in D2 - D1 Absolutely, but we have 3 top 10 teams AP teams - all legit ( Shawnee #1 , Rogers and Sandusky tied for the 8th spot in D2.) I assume ASVSM is the prohibitive favorite, but never say never as I recall Defiance knocking off both Dunbar and Cleveland Central Catholic in what was "deemed" upsets - but they flat out beat both of them? As a matter of fact, outside of D1 I think this is the best chance NW Ohio has had to take home the championship in 3 divisions in quite some time?
You can also add Lutheran East in there. They moved up from D3 to D2 and beat ASVSM earlier this season.
 

boater

Member
For the record I said Toledo area. Lima and Sandusky fall outside of the "Toledo area" IMO.
I 'd agree with that assessment. But I will tell you last year I was saying pretty much the same thing? I mean gone are the days of the last 3+ decades of solid D1 basketball. Rogers is the only Toledo REAL hope IMO? The days of The MAc Men, Scott, St Francis and St Johns ( 80's into early 90's) all had solid squads and quality rosters. That thinned into the 90's with St Johns really rising, Scott still had some nice teams, and Libby coming on. The 2000s started out promising - even though the Johnnies SHOULD have won a title OR TWO - they had talent! Then Libby followed with Whitmer having some success, and recently in the last 5 years Rogers? These past 2-3 seasons though have been slim by those decades standards. GO back to the Scott teams in the late 70's my era and I will tell you Toledo had some great teams- as in multiple teams .. .not so much today?
 

Smalls

Active member
I agree there is far less talent now.

Most of the top end talent the last couple years tops out at the D2 college level. Nice players, but not what it once was.

There has been some years that a Toledo team could have been dominate at the state level if several players came together on the one team. Nigel Hayes, Mark Donnell, Mark Loving and Vitto Brown would have been tough to beat if you throw the Rogers guards on that team (their names escape me).

Although, when the great teams of the past were making state runs a lot of their best competition came against TCL opponents. I hope it comes back at some point.
 

Smalls

Active member
Toledo Final 4 teams since 1971 (Can I count Ottawa Hills and Cardinal Stritch?) - I don't have time to look for the results of the semi final games, but here is what I could come up with.

Relative to the rest of the state the fall off in team results is not that great (if at all), but I will tell you from my old eyes and game tapes/highlights it has really fallen off - Now get off my lawn.

1970's 3 Final 4 teams
1974 Scott
1976 Scott
1978 Scott

1980's 5 Final 4 teams
1982 Scott
1983 St. Francis State Champs
1984 Scott
1987 Whitmer
1989 Macomber State Champs

1990's 3 Final 4 teams
1990 Scott State Champs
1993 St. Johns
1996 St. Johns

2000's 7 Final 4 teams
2000 Libbey
2003 St. Johns
2004 St. Johns
2006 St. Johns
2008 Whitmer
2008 Libbey D2
2009 St. Johns

2010's 6 Final 4 teams (4 in D1/D2)
2010 Ottawa Hills D4
2011 Central Catholic
2011 Rogers D2
2012 Whitmer
2013 Rogers D2
2019 Cardinal Stritch D3
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
Using Final 4 is a tad deceiving because 1 team makes it no matter how tough or easy the districts and regions actually are.

I can tell you that there were TCL/TRAC JV teams from 10 years ago that would win the NLL this season. No joke. Northwood beat Maumee the other night. Unreal.

I can also say that we always had basketball talent, and size, and kids that simply had that savvy "it." I just do not see it anymore. I no longer see a Drew Lehman or a John Floyd or Drew Hausfeld. Kids that should not be good at basketball but are because they are gym rats. Not AAU gym rats, but every day at a gym somewhere just constantly playing against older and better competition. I also have seen an overabundance of noodle arms this season. We live in an era of nutrition and advanced weight training but I saw a ton of kids this season who looked like they might weigh 140lbs dripping wet. Kids who also lack understanding of the game. And lastly we have also been blessed with kids who were talented and knew it. From Nigel Hayes to William Buford to Euyless Palmer. Confident kids who had great ball skills who were men. The closest this season would be Holifield and I think if he is in the TRAC/TCL in 2011 he is just another better than average player in the league. I realize this all sounds terrible but it is that bad. I truly wish it wasn't.
 
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cchs1983

Well-known member
Can never mention Drew Lehman enough.
If you really want to watch really bad basketball turn on BCSN2 right now.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Can never mention Drew Lehman enough.
If you really want to watch really bad basketball turn on BCSN2 right now.
Central - Lima wasn't exactly art so which of the three games were you referring to? Or all three?

Start - Rogers should be a good game.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
I've heard people talking about the city/area being down since back when I was around for the Loving and Hayes years. I think reality is that the area school age population is way, way down compared to previous decades and the thinned out talent pool is further spread out with the migration from the city to the suburbs. The talent and overall depth of quality teams is never going to be like it was in the 70s, 80s and into the 90s ever again. The year that Rogers went to the state finals and Whitmer, St. John's and Central Catholic were all high level was a major anomaly. Maybe once every 15-20 years there's going to be a class area wide that's as good as that group was.
 
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Smalls

Active member
From the 2019 immediate Toledo area class I came up with the following guys who are getting some or all of their schooling paid for. Several of them have good numbers for their freshman year. Better depth than what I thought when I started thinking it through, but no top end talent.

D1, D2, NAIA - Didn't include D3 since they don't give athletic $$$. Some of these guys may be walk ons.

Jackie Harris - St. Francis D1 Oakland 1.5 PPG in 24 games played
Issace Elsasser - Bowling Green D1 BGSU got a few minutes in a couple games
Trey Syroka - Whitmer D1 Niagra DNP Redshirt?

Tehree Horn - Southview D2 Urbana 11.3 PPG Leading Scorer
Jacob Plantz - Genoa D2 Lake Erie College 9.5 PPG
Leon Hughes - Whitmer D2 Lake Erie College Redshirt?
Ashton Caryer - Stritch D2 Tiffin Redshirt
Jordan Burton - Stritch D2 Notre Dame College 9.3 PPG
Eddie Colbert - Whitmer D2 College of Charleston 8.6 PPG
Alec West - Northview D2 Ohio Dominican 5.8 PPG
Levi Seiler - Wauseon D2 Malone 1.4 PPG in 24 games played
Randy Slink - Swanton D2 Notre Dame College played in a few games

Little Anderson - NAIA Lourdes University 9.2 PPG
Jakiel Wells - NAIA Shawnee State played in a couple games
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
I've heard people talking about the city/area being down since back when I was around for the Loving and Hayes years. I think reality is that the area school age population is way, way down compared to previous decades and the thinned out talent pool is further spread out with the migration from the city to the suburbs. The talent and overall depth of quality teams is never going to be like it was in the 70s, 80s and into the 90s ever again. The year that Rogers went to the state finals and Whitmer, St. John's and Central Catholic were all high level was a major anomaly. Maybe once every 15-20 years there's going to be a class area wide that's as good as that group was.
Brain drain man. Brain drain.

Fewer kids all the way around. I'll be SHOCKED if Toledo area ever has a class like 2013 again.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
In that case give me an order of Drew Lehman, Brian Roberts, William Buford, Nigel Hayes, and Zach Hillesland (someone has to do the dirty work - and he can run). Perhaps a side order of Nate Miles minus the transfer bug. :ROFLMAO: John Floyd just to make it rain.

Am told there is a young Nate Miles looming out there. Told he is pretty darn good too.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
The Waite kid is good. Good instincts. Good skills. Head always in the game. Never takes a play off. Never seen an unsportsmanlike move out of him. Never seen a selfish one either. I worry about those skinny legs. He got bashed around pretty good at QB.

Watched the McCrimmon kid play last night for Bowsher. Was impressed with his size. Did he play football?
I don't know. I don't think he's that big b-ballwise. 6'2" ish? He's just smooth. Very efficient. He's easy to miss on the court. He has a step-around good as I've seen but as we've mentioned, against what competition?
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Really 6'5"? Must have been slouching when I saw him. Looking at the Roger's highlights though, yeah I could see it. Notice he doesn't leave his feet much, but he gets his hand on the top of the ball. Very efficient in his movements. Knows where to be. There's a place for him in basketball, a Willie Jackson (UT) kind of player. If he does have hops and just isn't using them, then a Julius Wells type.

I didn't notice him in football but I wasn't that active last Fall. He's certainly got measurables that could build to a receiving TE.
 

Fayette79

Member
From the 2019 immediate Toledo area class I came up with the following guys who are getting some or all of their schooling paid for. Several of them have good numbers for their freshman year. Better depth than what I thought when I started thinking it through, but no top end talent.

D1, D2, NAIA - Didn't include D3 since they don't give athletic $$$. Some of these guys may be walk ons.

Jackie Harris - St. Francis D1 Oakland 1.5 PPG in 24 games played
Issace Elsasser - Bowling Green D1 BGSU got a few minutes in a couple games
Trey Syroka - Whitmer D1 Niagra DNP Redshirt?

Tehree Horn - Southview D2 Urbana 11.3 PPG Leading Scorer
Jacob Plantz - Genoa D2 Lake Erie College 9.5 PPG
Leon Hughes - Whitmer D2 Lake Erie College Redshirt?
Ashton Caryer - Stritch D2 Tiffin Redshirt
Jordan Burton - Stritch D2 Notre Dame College 9.3 PPG
Eddie Colbert - Whitmer D2 College of Charleston 8.6 PPG
Alec West - Northview D2 Ohio Dominican 5.8 PPG
Levi Seiler - Wauseon D2 Malone 1.4 PPG in 24 games played
Randy Slink - Swanton D2 Notre Dame College played in a few games

Little Anderson - NAIA Lourdes University 9.2 PPG
Jakiel Wells - NAIA Shawnee State played in a couple games
Austin Rotroff - Wauseon D1 Duquesne
 

Smalls

Active member
Does anyone know if any of the Start guys from last year are playing in college? A couple of them seemed more like football guys, safety/DB types.
 
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