Toledo Christian - 8-man Football State Champions

reganaustinjames

Well-known member
Making a claim like that is an absolute bush league move by this coach. This is like those schools who claim state championships because of writers' polls for years after 1971 (Edit: to clarify, by this last point, I mean those who claim state championships via poll 1972 and later; prior to that, poll was the only mechanism we had)
 
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Sykotyk

Well-known member
Making a claim like that is an absolute bush league move by this coach. This is like those schools who claim state championships because of writers' polls for years after 1971
They have an 8-1 record in all games. By far the most wins and best record among the handful of 8 man teams. Not really a reach.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
I agree with "bush league." There is no state champ, regardless who won most games. Accept your wins and be humble.
 

Sykotyk

Well-known member
why you worried about it, he your besty? It's an opinion agreed with post #2, you know, the one you decided to put in "its place."
When did I degrade or belittle anyone? Just that is not a reach to say the team with the best record claimed the championship.

You're the one with the issue with someone else proud of their accomplishments. Even if it's not up to your lofty standards.
 

Jotham

Well-known member
Younger people in Ohio like to pretend that football didn't exist before the playoffs began in 1972.

According to their thinking Knute Rockne never won a national title at Notre Dame, or Bear Bryant at Alabama, or Bud Wilkerson at Oklahoma, or Woody Hayes at Ohio State.

And to follow that line of thinking to its logical conclusion, no titles are legitimate that weren't played under the present rules, because 16 teams in every region weren't allowed to compete.

The coach had the team with the best record, so his claim is legit.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
When did I degrade or belittle anyone? Just that is not a reach to say the team with the best record claimed the championship.

You're the one with the issue with someone else proud of their accomplishments. Even if it's not up to your lofty standards.
Post #3. You're the one that decided to quote. Could have made your wrong "not a reach" without it but no, you had to degrade the opinion.

Sorry not sorry that not everyone agrees that poker hand you won against your kid doesn't make you state champion nor that schedule, your besty in football and that it's bush-league for you or him to say it does. Just like your pursuit of this nonsense with me, both show it's not out of reach that your ego is out of the control .

If some state sports organization has declared them "state champion," then I'll stand corrected. Declaring yourself "state champion" is ego out of control and both would be bush league.

In this case, MY opinion is that the humble thing to do would have been to congratulate all teams that fielded a team, support the sport for its value and build interest, not claim dominance or something not earned. If he'd wanted to claim a "state title," then he should have built the sport and arranged a play-off as they do in Michigan or stayed in D7. If they want to have a state trophy made and put into their case that's on them or maybe you can send them one to register YOUR opinion.
 
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D4fan

Well-known member
There were 6, though Holgate called off their season after 1 game and New London played a limited schedule too
So a team that went 8-1 likely played most if the other 5 schools?

I have zero problem with such a claim.

When I was in the 4th grade a certain Christian school was going for a basketball state title. We went to the game and I saw the state champion crowned. Some 40 years later I was in the gymnasium of that school and noticed the state championship banner hanging on the wall. I felt duped when i realized I had believed in my mind they were the best high school team in the state my fourth grade year.

Reality was they played in a Christian school sanctioned tournament not the ohsaa and they probably were not even the 500th best high school in the state. But they were the best in THEIR TOURNAMENT, it was statewide, so they were indeed state champions.

The real controversy still exists from those non ohsaa days and playing an admittedly weaker schedule. They have a couple athletes who set fairly distinguished scoring records (1,600 points in a career range) , but did it in far less competitive games than their current OHSAA schedule. So who is the real scoring leader? A kid who got 1,200+ in todays OHSAA member days, or the kid who got 1,600 points in the old days of a Christian school league?
 

scbuckeye99

Well-known member
Younger people in Ohio like to pretend that football didn't exist before the playoffs began in 1972.

According to their thinking Knute Rockne never won a national title at Notre Dame, or Bear Bryant at Alabama, or Bud Wilkerson at Oklahoma, or Woody Hayes at Ohio State.

And to follow that line of thinking to its logical conclusion, no titles are legitimate that weren't played under the present rules, because 16 teams in every region weren't allowed to compete.

The coach had the team with the best record, so his claim is legit.
Clemson fans are of the belief that football didn't start until 2011. Just ask em.
 

D4fan

Well-known member
Only team that beat them was from Michigan, so guess they could claim Ohio's 8 man title unless you disqualify any team outside of Ohio from being Ohios 8 man champion. With so few schools involved, the regular season is in fact a defacto tournament.
 

scbuckeye99

Well-known member
So a team that went 8-1 likely played most if the other 5 schools?

I have zero problem with such a claim.

When I was in the 4th grade a certain Christian school was going for a basketball state title. We went to the game and I saw the state champion crowned. Some 40 years later I was in the gymnasium of that school and noticed the state championship banner hanging on the wall. I felt duped when i realized I had believed in my mind they were the best high school team in the state my fourth grade year.

Reality was they played in a Christian school sanctioned tournament not the ohsaa and they probably were not even the 500th best high school in the state. But they were the best in THEIR TOURNAMENT, it was statewide, so they were indeed state champions.

The real controversy still exists from those non ohsaa days and playing an admittedly weaker schedule. They have a couple athletes who set fairly distinguished scoring records (1,600 points in a career range) , but did it in far less competitive games than their current OHSAA schedule. So who is the real scoring leader? A kid who got 1,200+ in todays OHSAA member days, or the kid who got 1,600 points in the old days of a Christian school league?
Or....consider those athletes, especially in basketball, who never had a three point line or only were allowed to play X amount of games in the regular season.
 

reganaustinjames

Well-known member
When did I degrade or belittle anyone? Just that is not a reach to say the team with the best record claimed the championship.

You're the one with the issue with someone else proud of their accomplishments. Even if it's not up to your lofty standards.
There is no recognized sanctioning body or tournament that makes an official declaration of a state championship in 8-man; therefore, they are NOT state champions. Period. And the coach stating so in the media reeks of arrogance and gives the program a proverbial black eye, especially given the lack of 8-man programs to begin with, and the COVID-related ambiguity this year brought about.

Now, if he'd said something about this proving how a school struggling to keep football afloat can do so in a way that's positive for the kids and the community, that would've come off much better, but this guy went out, made a false claim, and made himself and the program look like bad winners.

If I were the administration at Toledo Christian, that coach would've been fired for this.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
Were they 'crowned' as such by their peers? Or, did they beat all teams in Ohio fielding 8-man and finished one game above (W-L metrics) the next best team in a round robin?

I don't necessarily see the issue if they are a nominal state champion and just had a hiccup in explaining the designation. For as long as 8-man as been around in Ohio, I don't see the problem in at least trying to etch your name into the history book on the subject if there's a reasonable claim to be had that indeed you are the state champions of 8-man... at least by default.
Where did they end up in the Dale Stoin Ratings index?
You're riding into rough waters, pal.
 

EagleFan

Fan of Eagle
So a team that went 8-1 likely played most if the other 5 schools?

I have zero problem with such a claim.
Their only loss was to a Michigan team. The beat the other 3 full-season 8-man teams twice each, so yes they are a clear best in the 8-man category.

St. Mary Central Catholic only two losses were to Toledo Christian, so they were a clear 2nd best.

Danbury and Stryker split their 2 games to finish tied for 3rd.

Probably really talking about a league championship here, not a state championship, but I have no problem with stirring up some interest and excitement.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Making the final 16 of a state championship is quite an accomplishment. Kudos to all that did that in 8-man Ohio football!

We're debating whether a team that played a few of the weakest teams in the entire state should get a STATE trophy? I think you can generrate interest without embarrassing the concept.

Schools are going to be inventing their own sports so they can put a state trophy on the wall. It's TC's decision but if they do it's bush league. It's below bush league.There are probably more than 100 teams in state that could take 8 kids off their bench that never played and whallop TC's 8. It was bush league to even insinuate a "state championship."

Develop a real play-off such as in Michigan. Win it. Then claim a trophy. Anything less is an embarrassment to the school's standards. You had fun. Be fine with that. BT

I think a correlation between those that say "yes" to a state trophy and their responses on play-off expansion is in order. :D
 
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dhsdog06

Well-known member
There is no recognized sanctioning body or tournament that makes an official declaration of a state championship in 8-man; therefore, they are NOT state champions. Period. And the coach stating so in the media reeks of arrogance and gives the program a proverbial black eye, especially given the lack of 8-man programs to begin with, and the COVID-related ambiguity this year brought about.

Now, if he'd said something about this proving how a school struggling to keep football afloat can do so in a way that's positive for the kids and the community, that would've come off much better, but this guy went out, made a false claim, and made himself and the program look like bad winners.

If I were the administration at Toledo Christian, that coach would've been fired for this.

Lol you must be fun at parties.

Fire a coach over that. Wow. Thank God you'll never be an AD. You'd have the program dead in no time, simply because not everyone agrees with you on everything.
 

Rangerfan

Well-known member
Who says the coach claims to be state champion?

Toledo Christian is the proclaimed state champions of Bruce Monnin's Computer Points podcast, according to its computer points formula:


They are the champs in the opinion of my podcast, not of the coach. Not happy? Blame me. Attached is a picture of the trophy we sent to Lakeside Danbury last year (their coach was on our podcast last year after the season). A similar one is in the mail to Toledo Christian.
 

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Thavoice

Well-known member
Well, if West Jefferson can claim a State Title when Dale Stoin's Rating System proclaimed them champs then this should also be recogized.
 

Bull GreenDog

Well-known member
A similar thing happened at my alma mater. In 2003 or 2004 Green's dance team went to a "national" event in Florida. This competition had maybe five or six teams, and Green ended up winning first place. Believe it or not, Green declared their dance team to be "National Champions" and there's still a national championship banner hanging in the gym. When I first noticed the banner, I asked a teacher about it, since I'd never heard about Green ever winning a national championship before. He just laughed and told me that the "championship" wasn't actually sanctioned by anyone, and that almost nobody at the school at the time even knew about it. No celebration or anything like that, someone in the athletic department simply decided to hang a banner.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
A similar thing happened at my alma mater. In 2003 or 2004 Green's dance team went to a "national" event in Florida. This competition had maybe five or six teams, and Green ended up winning first place. Believe it or not, Green declared their dance team to be "National Champions" and there's still a national championship banner hanging in the gym. When I first noticed the banner, I asked a teacher about it, since I'd never heard about Green ever winning a national championship before. He just laughed and told me that the "championship" wasn't actually sanctioned by anyone, and that almost nobody at the school at the time even knew about it. No celebration or anything like that, someone in the athletic department simply decided to hang a banner.
Academic Competitions more/less have the exact same problem you're describing on the national stage.
 

tucson

Well-known member
I'm a bit confused by this entire thread. It just seems like outrage culture. Nothing has been mentioned here that's worthy of being fired. I don't even think there's anything the coach, football program, or school should feel embarrassed about. It's not really that serious, it's just a high school activity.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
I'm a bit confused by this entire thread. It just seems like outrage culture. Nothing has been mentioned here that's worthy of being fired. I don't even think there's anything the coach, football program, or school should feel embarrassed about. It's not really that serious, it's just a high school activity.

you should be fired for that post!
 

scbuckeye99

Well-known member
I'm a bit confused by this entire thread. It just seems like outrage culture. Nothing has been mentioned here that's worthy of being fired. I don't even think there's anything the coach, football program, or school should feel embarrassed about. It's not really that serious, it's just a high school activity.
BUT we have to complain about what others do with their lives. It's in the Declaration of the Bill of Rights.....towards the back.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
BUT we have to complain about what others do with their lives. It's in the Declaration of the Bill of Rights.....towards the back.

It's pretty much in the front. Regardless, they're all equal. To diminish the discussion is a distraction from the point IMO. Back to it.

Setting standards is what people with standards do. I'm not sure OP's original intent but it quickly became such a discussion. Seems to me enough have shown interest and reasonable points are being made that it's not people "complaining what others do with their lives." I don't believe anyone has with intent dimished 8-man football.
 
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