The Official 2023 Cincinnati Reds Thread

AEW Champion

Well-known member
Starting to wonder if the Reds would ever move cities. They will never win a WS ever again being in Cincinnati
If St. Louis can field a team that wins World Series titles (2006, 2011) and gets to the World Series (2004, 2013), so can the city of Cincinnati.

The Reds have unfortunately had a crippling combination of meddlesome ownership, at times cheap ownership, bad front office work, and unsuccessful player development in both the minors and majors. It’s nearly impossible for an organization to win with that many self-imposed negatives and failures.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

AEW Champion

Well-known member
True but the best teams are in the biggest cities.
This is true, but the top franchises over the past several seasons not only are willing to spend when necessary, but also have been great at developing prospects.

Examples:

1. Dodgers — They spent on game-changing players (Betts, Freeman) and potential game-changers (Trevor Bauer) as well as keeping their icon pitcher (Kershaw) around. But they also developed an ace in Walker Buehler, a potential ace in Julio Urias, Cody Bellinger, Will Smith, Max Muncy, Gavin Lux, etc. Plus turned Justin Turner from an afterthought earlier in his career into a key cog in their lineup over the past decade. Plus had the prospect package on their hands to get Trea Turner and Max Scherzer a couple years ago.

2. Astros — They’re who the Reds are mostly trying to emulate. Sure, they paid Justin Verlander great money after trading for him late in the 2017 season (for three highly ranked prospects). And they’ve spent good money. But most of their core was made up of young stars they developed (Altuve, Springer, Correa, Bregman). And importantly, they’ve continued to push newer prospects into the big-league club (e.g. Yordan Alvarez, Jeremy Peña, Kyle Tucker), giving them the ability to lose Springer, Correa and now Verlander instead of continuing to pay big for them.

3. Braves — They’ve developed plenty of guys: Freddie Freeman, Ronald Acuna, Ozzie Albies, Austin Riley, Max Fried, Mike Soroka, Dansby Swanson. Yes, they did acquire essentially a fill-in outfield at the 2021 trade deadline, and yes, they also acquired Matt Olson and now Sean Murphy in trades. But they had the prospect packages to make that happen. And now their next wave of prospects (Michael Harris, Vaughn Grissom, Spencer Strider) is ready to supplement Acuna, Riley, Albies, Fried, Olson, Murphy, etc. And the Braves have smartly spent much of their money locking up their own guys early in their careers instead of losing them after 6 seasons.

Ideally, the Reds would emulate aspects of all three of these teams:

a) Extend the young players you believe in ASAP: Stephenson, Greene, Lodolo.

b) Have a first wave of prospects come up and become dangerous: De La Cruz, McLain, Steer, Williamson, Encarnacion-Strand, Stoudt, perhaps Barrero.

c) Supplement that core with smart trades and free-agent spending.

d) Have a second wave of guys continue to arrive to the majors to supplement the team and offset any losses: Noelvi Marte, Edwin Arroyo, Cam Collier, Chase Petty, Andrew Abbott, Connor Phillips.

e) Fill in any remaining deficiencies with smart free-agent signings.

Will it work? Who knows. But that should be the plan at this point.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

wolves82

Well-known member
This is true, but the top franchises over the past several seasons not only are willing to spend when necessary, but also have been great at developing prospects.

Examples:

1. Dodgers — They spent on game-changing players (Betts, Freeman) and potential game-changers (Trevor Bauer) as well as keeping their icon pitcher (Kershaw) around. But they also developed an ace in Walker Buehler, a potential ace in Julio Urias, Cody Bellinger, Will Smith, Max Muncy, Gavin Lux, etc. Plus turned Justin Turner from an afterthought earlier in his career into a key cog in their lineup over the past decade. Plus had the prospect package on their hands to get Trea Turner and Max Scherzer a couple years ago.

2. Astros — They’re who the Reds are mostly trying to emulate. Sure, they paid Justin Verlander great money after trading for him late in the 2017 season (for three highly ranked prospects). And they’ve spent good money. But most of their core was made up of young stars they developed (Altuve, Springer, Correa, Bregman). And importantly, they’ve continued to push newer prospects into the big-league club (e.g. Yordan Alvarez, Jeremy Peña, Kyle Tucker), giving them the ability to lose Springer, Correa and now Verlander instead of continuing to pay big for them.

3. Braves — They’ve developed plenty of guys: Freddie Freeman, Ronald Acuna, Ozzie Albies, Austin Riley, Max Fried, Mike Soroka, Dansby Swanson. Yes, they did acquire essentially a fill-in outfield at the 2021 trade deadline, and yes, they also acquired Matt Olson and now Sean Murphy in trades. But they had the prospect packages to make that happen. And now their next wave of prospects (Michael Harris, Vaughn Grissom, Spencer Strider) is ready to supplement Acuna, Riley, Albies, Fried, Olson, Murphy, etc. And the Braves have smartly spent much of their money locking up their own guys early in their careers instead of losing them after 6 seasons.

Ideally, the Reds would emulate aspects of all three of these teams:

a) Extend the young players you believe in ASAP: Stephenson, Greene, Lodolo.

b) Have a first wave of prospects come up and become dangerous: De La Cruz, McLain, Steer, Williamson, Encarnacion-Strand, Stoudt, perhaps Barrero.

c) Supplement that core with smart trades and free-agent spending.

d) Have a second wave of guys continue to arrive to the majors to supplement the team and offset any losses: Noelvi Marte, Edwin Arroyo, Cam Collier, Chase Petty, Andrew Abbott, Connor Phillips.

e) Fill in any remaining deficiencies with smart free-agent signings.

Will it work? Who knows. But that should be the plan at this point.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
No doubt the 3 organizations you listed, plus Toronto and Tampa, are the best at drafting/developing prospects. Do they just have smarter management? Probably. But I guess they also fund their scouting department more than the poverty franchises like the Reds.
 

14Red

Well-known member
This is true, but the top franchises over the past several seasons not only are willing to spend when necessary, but also have been great at developing prospects.

Examples:

1. Dodgers — They spent on game-changing players (Betts, Freeman) and potential game-changers (Trevor Bauer) as well as keeping their icon pitcher (Kershaw) around. But they also developed an ace in Walker Buehler, a potential ace in Julio Urias, Cody Bellinger, Will Smith, Max Muncy, Gavin Lux, etc. Plus turned Justin Turner from an afterthought earlier in his career into a key cog in their lineup over the past decade. Plus had the prospect package on their hands to get Trea Turner and Max Scherzer a couple years ago.

2. Astros — They’re who the Reds are mostly trying to emulate. Sure, they paid Justin Verlander great money after trading for him late in the 2017 season (for three highly ranked prospects). And they’ve spent good money. But most of their core was made up of young stars they developed (Altuve, Springer, Correa, Bregman). And importantly, they’ve continued to push newer prospects into the big-league club (e.g. Yordan Alvarez, Jeremy Peña, Kyle Tucker), giving them the ability to lose Springer, Correa and now Verlander instead of continuing to pay big for them.

3. Braves — They’ve developed plenty of guys: Freddie Freeman, Ronald Acuna, Ozzie Albies, Austin Riley, Max Fried, Mike Soroka, Dansby Swanson. Yes, they did acquire essentially a fill-in outfield at the 2021 trade deadline, and yes, they also acquired Matt Olson and now Sean Murphy in trades. But they had the prospect packages to make that happen. And now their next wave of prospects (Michael Harris, Vaughn Grissom, Spencer Strider) is ready to supplement Acuna, Riley, Albies, Fried, Olson, Murphy, etc. And the Braves have smartly spent much of their money locking up their own guys early in their careers instead of losing them after 6 seasons.

Ideally, the Reds would emulate aspects of all three of these teams:

a) Extend the young players you believe in ASAP: Stephenson, Greene, Lodolo.

b) Have a first wave of prospects come up and become dangerous: De La Cruz, McLain, Steer, Williamson, Encarnacion-Strand, Stoudt, perhaps Barrero.

c) Supplement that core with smart trades and free-agent spending.

d) Have a second wave of guys continue to arrive to the majors to supplement the team and offset any losses: Noelvi Marte, Edwin Arroyo, Cam Collier, Chase Petty, Andrew Abbott, Connor Phillips.

e) Fill in any remaining deficiencies with smart free-agent signings.

Will it work? Who knows. But that should be the plan at this point.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
I think you can put this same model for any sport, basketball, football doesn't matter. B & D are THE most important to the health of the Reds franchise. As we've witnessed over the last several years, the Reds have not drafted and developed well. That has as much or more to do with the failure of this organization to win - not the owner's pregame comments on opening day as many seem to continue to harp on.

Now you do have to say while the Astros and Braves have proven to be winners the last few years, it takes some luck to do this as well. They hit home runs with Bregman, Springer, Correa and Altuve. Likewise the Braves with Acuna, Albies, Riley and Swanson. ALL organizations aspire to do this, those two just did it very well.

You are 1000% correct, THIS IS the blueprint for Reds success moving forward. The Reds may or may not be able to go buy FA talent to fill in the cracks.
I"m not quite ready to extend Stephenson. To me he need to prove to be a full time, 120+ game player and productive. We got burned by Devin Mesorco not too long ago. I think we can extend Lodolo, I don't think we can touch what Greene will command in a few years.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
... As we've witnessed over the last several years, the Reds have not drafted and developed well. That has as much or more to do with the failure of this organization to win - not the owner's pregame comments on opening day as many seem to continue to harp on.
...
I"m not quite ready to extend Stephenson. To me he need to prove to be a full time, 120+ game player and productive. We got burned by Devin Mesorco not too long ago. I think we can extend Lodolo, I don't think we can touch what Greene will command in a few years.
Two comments - on the bolded parts.

1) Nobody ever said that Castellini's comments impacted winning or losing. How do you even come to that illogical conclusion? His comments are indicative of his immense stupidity and arrogance, and how little he is concerned with winning or what the fans think.

2) Agreed that the Reds will not be able to afford what Greene MIGHT be able to command in a few years. He could become a $30M+ per year type of pitcher. That is out of the Reds reach, for sure. The point is, he MIGHT become that good. Or he might get injured again. No one knows for sure, and Greene doesn't know for sure.

Greene has five more seasons until he is a FA, so there is not a rush to extend him now. But if the Reds were smart, which they usually are not, they would start talking about it soon with Greene. Do you think a talented kid, who made $700K last year, and is looking at 5 more years of "lower" pay and arbitration before his potentially huge payday, would turn town something like 6-8 years for $6M to $8M per year?

Guys in their 20's like Walker Buehler, Framber Valdez, Dylan Cease, Tyler Mahle and Sandy Alcantara are all in that range. Shane Bieber is only making $10M because Cleveland extended him early - he is easily worth 25-30M on the market today. Smart move. I think Greene would think hard about gambling and waiting until 2028 for his big payday. I think he would take a medium deal like that and the Reds would be wise to lock him up until 2030 or so.

But the Reds probably will not make the wise move.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Two comments - on the bolded parts.

1) Nobody ever said that Castellini's comments impacted winning or losing. How do you even come to that illogical conclusion? His comments are indicative of his immense stupidity and arrogance, and how little he is concerned with winning or what the fans think.

2) Agreed that the Reds will not be able to afford what Greene MIGHT be able to command in a few years. He could become a $30M+ per year type of pitcher. That is out of the Reds reach, for sure. The point is, he MIGHT become that good. Or he might get injured again. No one knows for sure, and Greene doesn't know for sure.

Greene has five more seasons until he is a FA, so there is not a rush to extend him now. But if the Reds were smart, which they usually are not, they would start talking about it soon with Greene. Do you think a talented kid, who made $700K last year, and is looking at 5 more years of "lower" pay and arbitration before his potentially huge payday, would turn town something like 6-8 years for $6M to $8M per year?

Guys in their 20's like Walker Buehler, Framber Valdez, Dylan Cease, Tyler Mahle and Sandy Alcantara are all in that range. Shane Bieber is only making $10M because Cleveland extended him early - he is easily worth 25-30M on the market today. Smart move. I think Greene would think hard about gambling and waiting until 2028 for his big payday. I think he would take a medium deal like that and the Reds would be wise to lock him up until 2030 or so.

But the Reds probably will not make the wise move.
Two comments - on bolded parts...

Funny, to me it seems like every other post is about the Castelini family??? I could give a flip who owns the team. It's about the players.

It's 2023, Greene is beginning his SECOND season. We are a long way from long term talks. I'd like to see us keep him for as long as possible. I just feel IF he's all that we assume he'll be, there is no shot at signing him long term. Who knows what baseball contracts look like in another 3-4 years.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Two comments - on bolded parts...

Funny, to me it seems like every other post is about the Castelini family??? I could give a flip who owns the team. It's about the players.

It's 2023, Greene is beginning his SECOND season. We are a long way from long term talks. I'd like to see us keep him for as long as possible. I just feel IF he's all that we assume he'll be, there is no shot at signing him long term. Who knows what baseball contracts look like in another 3-4 years.
If you do not understand that the Castellini's ownership / mismanagement of the team is negatively impacting the team's ability to win, then I'm not sure what else to say. Of course the fans comment on it, because we want our team to win.

As for Greene, my entire point is that if you make an extension offer sooner rather than later, it will be cheaper the sooner you offer it. If you wait until his final arbitration year, and he becomes great, you end up with a Cueto or Castillo situation, where you lose the guy with no chance to sign him. But forward-thinking is not the Reds way.
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
If you do not understand that the Castellini's ownership / mismanagement of the team is negatively impacting the team's ability to win, then I'm not sure what else to say. Of course the fans comment on it, because we want our team to win.

As for Greene, my entire point is that if you make an extension offer sooner rather than later, it will be cheaper the sooner you offer it. If you wait until his final arbitration year, and he becomes great, you end up with a Cueto or Castillo situation, where you lose the guy with no chance to sign him. But forward-thinking is not the Reds way.
The Reds should offer Greene and Lodolo both contracts this offseason for $64/8years and front load them both. Make the last 5 years very cheap, like 2M per. Their trade value would be astronomical in 3 years when both are really starting to peak.
 

14Red

Well-known member
If you do not understand that the Castellini's ownership / mismanagement of the team is negatively impacting the team's ability to win, then I'm not sure what else to say. Of course the fans comment on it, because we want our team to win.

As for Greene, my entire point is that if you make an extension offer sooner rather than later, it will be cheaper the sooner you offer it. If you wait until his final arbitration year, and he becomes great, you end up with a Cueto or Castillo situation, where you lose the guy with no chance to sign him. But forward-thinking is not the Reds way.
Two parts...
One - It really does not matter to me you or anyone not owning the Reds WHO OWNS THE TEAM!!!! They will sell when they feel like they should regardless of what you think. I can't understand the line of thinking where us peasants can run the farm??

Two - If Greene is under control for another 5 years, sooner is going to be with us for awhile. Playing devil's advocate. You lock him up now and he blows his arm out. Then what? These are baseball pitchers, pitchers get hurt more than about any other professional sports position. Greene has about 3/4ths of one season, Lodolo about 1/2 of a season. I'm not extending them at least for a year or two, and that's IF they perform like we think they can. What is the hurry?
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
Two parts...
One - It really does not matter to me you or anyone not owning the Reds WHO OWNS THE TEAM!!!! They will sell when they feel like they should regardless of what you think. I can't understand the line of thinking where us peasants can run the farm??

Two - If Greene is under control for another 5 years, sooner is going to be with us for awhile. Playing devil's advocate. You lock him up now and he blows his arm out. Then what? These are baseball pitchers, pitchers get hurt more than about any other professional sports position. Greene has about 3/4ths of one season, Lodolo about 1/2 of a season. I'm not extending them at least for a year or two, and that's IF they perform like we think they can. What is the hurry?
Price. That's why.

The same risk of inury is there for the player to worry about. They would likely be glad to get Guaranteed deals now at a nice discount while adding a couple of extra years to their service.

You don't have to hit on every deal. One out of three should be a break even target. Two out of three puts the team ahead and 3 out of three and you have a chance at everything.

This is the Tampa model.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Price. That's why.

The same risk of inury is there for the player to worry about. They would likely be glad to get Guaranteed deals now at a nice discount while adding a couple of extra years to their service.

You don't have to hit on every deal. One out of three should be a break even target. Two out of three puts the team ahead and 3 out of three and you have a chance at everything.

This is the Tampa model.
Exactly. I've explained it to our friend countless times. All he sees is downside, not the potential benefit.

Low budget teams need to take the occasional smart risk, if it pays off, you end up with a huge win, like Cleveland with Bieber. They have had a few seasons with one of the top pitchers in the game, for less than half the market price. Why? because they saw the potential and extended him early.
14Red's limited vision is the same thing that plagues the Reds front office.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
One - It really does not matter to me you or anyone not owning the Reds WHO OWNS THE TEAM!!!! They will sell when they feel like they should regardless of what you think. I can't understand the line of thinking where us peasants can run the farm??
It should matter to anyone who claims to like the Reds. So you really do not understand how the penny-pinching owners of the Reds are hurting the play on the field? Or worse yet, you don't care? That's just sad.

I can sympathize if it is just ignorance. Not caring is much worse.
 

AEW Champion

Well-known member
Been waiting for the excited posts about the Chad Pinder signing. 31 year old utility guy with 62 HR in 550+ games, so maybe 15-18 per year. It's kind of sad, but he may be our best corner OF. Yay!
I saw at least one of the Stockholm syndrome Reds bootlickers on Twitter who defend the Reds at all costs suggest that he’s the next Brandon Drury breakout guy. I suppose it’s possible, but not very likely.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Good little condensed summary of the NL Central offseason changes for all five teams.


It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
Thanks for posting. I had lost track of two things: How many guys Milwaukee got rid of, and what a strong off-season the Cubs had. Cubs are easily the biggest challenger to the Cards now.

Even the Pirates got a small compliment. Adding McCutcheon, Choi & Santana as veteran leaders to help the young studs Cruz and Hayes makes them much better than the Reds.
 

AEW Champion

Well-known member
Thanks for posting. I had lost track of two things: How many guys Milwaukee got rid of, and what a strong off-season the Cubs had. Cubs are easily the biggest challenger to the Cards now.

Even the Pirates got a small compliment. Adding McCutcheon, Choi & Santana as veteran leaders to help the young studs Cruz and Hayes makes them much better than the Reds.
The Cubs are going to be a really interesting team, I think. They don’t have many, if any, guys that scream “star” or will knock your socks off, but they now have a bunch of competent depth all over the field except maybe in the bullpen.

And they have some versatility with Christopher Morel being able to play almost anywhere, Nelson Velasquez can cover any outfield spot, Patrick Wisdom can play 3B, 1B or DH, and Trey Mancini could play 1B or DH. And Nico Hoerner can play either middle infield spot.

I imagine their roster will look something like:

Starting lineup:

SS Dansby Swanson
2B Nico Hoerner
LF Ian Happ
DH Trey Mancini
RF Seiya Suzuki
CF Cody Bellinger
3B Patrick Wisdom
1B Eric Hosmer
C Yan Gomes

Bench:

C Tucker Barnhart
INF Christopher Morel
OF Nelson Velasquez
2B Nick Madrigal or UTIL Zach McKinstry

Starting rotation:

Justin Steele
Marcus Stroman
Jameson Taillon
Kyle Hendricks
Drew Smyly

They also have Adrian Sampson, Keegan Thompson and Adbert Alzolay who can start games, as well as one of their top prospects who briefly debuted last season, Caleb Kilian. It’s possible one or two of those guys might get moved to relief.

It’s easy to see reasons to doubt them:

Can you really trust a rotation with Hendricks, Stroman and Smyly in 2023? Will the other young SPs turn out to be solid? What if Ian Happ doesn’t follow up on his really good year? What if Bellinger still can’t hit? Etc.

But it’s just as easy to find reasons for optimism:

What if Seiya Suzuki takes the leap toward stardom? What if Swanson and Hoerner are a great defensive middle infield who also hit well? What if Taillon and Smyly are enough to breathe life into the rotation? What if Cody Bellinger figures it out? Maybe Hosmer is mad and has something to prove after being dumped by two teams in the past several months. And they have depth to cover an injury just about anywhere.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

14Red

Well-known member
It should matter to anyone who claims to like the Reds. So you really do not understand how the penny-pinching owners of the Reds are hurting the play on the field? Or worse yet, you don't care? That's just sad.

I can sympathize if it is just ignorance. Not caring is much worse.
Ok so we go around and around with this continuously. If you want to spend your summers bashing the Castilini's go ahead. But they are not selling, and they are not spending....at least not right now. I'm going to enjoy the team that's on the field, and support and follow them daily like I always do. I'm not going to talk about the ownership anymore.
 

Orin Swift

Well-known member
I saw at least one of the Stockholm syndrome Reds bootlickers on Twitter who defend the Reds at all costs suggest that he’s the next Brandon Drury breakout guy. I suppose it’s possible, but not very likely.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
You came across 14Red’s twitter account again?
 

AEW Champion

Well-known member

Linked above is an article by The Athletic ranking the on-field success of MLB franchises from the advent of the Wild Card (1995) through present. It’s paywalled, but I know you can use the Show Reader option on Apple devices to view it if you’re not an Athletic subscriber.

They assigned point values to each success, and also docked a point for any instance of a team losing 90+ games in consecutive seasons.

319D24ED-36DB-4A58-BF78-971D6BE25DB5.png

Where did the Reds finish? 27th of 30, ahead of only the Royals, Orioles and Pirates.

And where would the Reds have finished if the same exercise were applied to only the past decade (2013 to 2022)? Dead last.

519469F4-5D67-4CA5-9780-5BCA0B651503.png

The whole article is worth a read.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Ok so we go around and around with this continuously. If you want to spend your summers bashing the Castilini's go ahead. But they are not selling, and they are not spending....at least not right now. I'm going to enjoy the team that's on the field, and support and follow them daily like I always do. I'm not going to talk about the ownership anymore.
I won't waste my summer bashing them. But at least I understand why the Reds are bad, and I also care, and wish they were not so bad. You go ahead and "enjoy" that team.
 

14Red

Well-known member
The Cubs are going to be a really interesting team, I think. They don’t have many, if any, guys that scream “star” or will knock your socks off, but they now have a bunch of competent depth all over the field except maybe in the bullpen.

And they have some versatility with Christopher Morel being able to play almost anywhere, Nelson Velasquez can cover any outfield spot, Patrick Wisdom can play 3B, 1B or DH, and Trey Mancini could play 1B or DH. And Nico Hoerner can play either middle infield spot.

I imagine their roster will look something like:

Starting lineup:

SS Dansby Swanson
2B Nico Hoerner
LF Ian Happ
DH Trey Mancini
RF Seiya Suzuki
CF Cody Bellinger
3B Patrick Wisdom
1B Eric Hosmer
C Yan Gomes

Bench:

C Tucker Barnhart
INF Christopher Morel
OF Nelson Velasquez
2B Nick Madrigal or UTIL Zach McKinstry

Starting rotation:

Justin Steele
Marcus Stroman
Jameson Taillon
Kyle Hendricks
Drew Smyly

They also have Adrian Sampson, Keegan Thompson and Adbert Alzolay who can start games, as well as one of their top prospects who briefly debuted last season, Caleb Kilian. It’s possible one or two of those guys might get moved to relief.

It’s easy to see reasons to doubt them:

Can you really trust a rotation with Hendricks, Stroman and Smyly in 2023? Will the other young SPs turn out to be solid? What if Ian Happ doesn’t follow up on his really good year? What if Bellinger still can’t hit? Etc.

But it’s just as easy to find reasons for optimism:

What if Seiya Suzuki takes the leap toward stardom? What if Swanson and Hoerner are a great defensive middle infield who also hit well? What if Taillon and Smyly are enough to breathe life into the rotation? What if Cody Bellinger figures it out? Maybe Hosmer is mad and has something to prove after being dumped by two teams in the past several months. And they have depth to cover an injury just about anywhere.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
The Cubs are putting a nice squad together. And who really even classifies as "stars" these days? In baseball, you win with the "other" guys. The solid, everyday players who do their jobs, the bullpens. Big years for Hoerner, Happ and Wisdom who were disappointments last year. Happ seems to be only great against the Reds. Mancini, Bellinger, Hosmser and Gomes. Those 4 may tell the tale of the team. Are they going to excel in a new environment, or are they over the hill and the Cubs paid for nothing.
 

AEW Champion

Well-known member
The Cubs are putting a nice squad together. And who really even classifies as "stars" these days? In baseball, you win with the "other" guys. The solid, everyday players who do their jobs, the bullpens. Big years for Hoerner, Happ and Wisdom who were disappointments last year. Happ seems to be only great against the Reds. Mancini, Bellinger, Hosmser and Gomes. Those 4 may tell the tale of the team. Are they going to excel in a new environment, or are they over the hill and the Cubs paid for nothing.
It’s true that it’s a big year for Happ heading into free agency, but he was anything but a disappointment last year. He went to the All-Star Game, won a Gold Glove, had a 119 OPS+, and was worth 4.4 WAR per Baseball Reference.

Hoerner had a 107+ OPS, was worth 4.5 WAR, and only got moved to 2B because the Cubs wanted to make a splash at shortstop and knew they could use Hoerner at 2B since Nick Madrigal has continually been injured or underperforming.

Wisdom supplied some power but I agree was mostly disappointing and has a chance at being platooned with or replaced at 3B by Morel.

If Bellinger and Hosmer can regain old form, it really lengthens the lineup.

Gomes will likely be in a true platoon at catcher with Barnhart. Gomes was a Cub in 2022, so I gave him a slight nod since he’ll start out a bit more familiar with the returning pitchers.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

14Red

Well-known member
It’s true that it’s a big year for Happ heading into free agency, but he was anything but a disappointment last year. He went to the All-Star Game, won a Gold Glove, had a 119 OPS+, and was worth 4.4 WAR per Baseball Reference.

Hoerner had a 107+ OPS, was worth 4.5 WAR, and only got moved to 2B because the Cubs wanted to make a splash at shortstop and knew they could use Hoerner at 2B since Nick Madrigal has continually been injured or underperforming.

Wisdom supplied some power but I agree was mostly disappointing and has a chance at being platooned with or replaced at 3B by Morel.

If Bellinger and Hosmer can regain old form, it really lengthens the lineup.

Gomes will likely be in a true platoon at catcher with Barnhart. Gomes was a Cub in 2022, so I gave him a slight nod since he’ll start out a bit more familiar with the returning pitchers.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
Thanks for the info.
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
The Cubs are putting a nice squad together. And who really even classifies as "stars" these days? In baseball, you win with the "other" guys. The solid, everyday players who do their jobs, the bullpens. Big years for Hoerner, Happ and Wisdom who were disappointments last year. Happ seems to be only great against the Reds. Mancini, Bellinger, Hosmser and Gomes. Those 4 may tell the tale of the team. Are they going to excel in a new environment, or are they over the hill and the Cubs paid for nothing.
Then why do the Reds consistently lose?

They have plenty of "other guys".
 

wolves82

Well-known member
You guys both left Dansby Swanson off of your Cubs evaluation. I'd say he was their best addition. If Happ and Hoerner are close to last year's level, and Bellinger/Hosmer produce to about 80% of their peak, this lineup is loaded. Pitching is another matter, that looks a little shaky.
 
.
Top