The Official 2021 Cincinnati Reds Thread

wolves82

Well-known member
Same one you are. Do you see those guys alot differently from this? Chapman has two pitches, Iglesias has two pitches, Lorenzen has two pitches. Garrett has one pitch and can't spot a fastball.
Yikes, did you not watch games this year?

Iglesias has 4 plus pitches, with different arm slots. And his 98 mph got by plenty of guys this past year. If only he had a good head on his shoulders...

Welsh and Brantley talked at length about Lorenzen's slider and changeup improvements, to go with his 99 mph heater. His starts down the stretch proved how effective each of his 3 pitches are.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Yikes, did you not watch games this year?

Iglesias has 4 plus pitches, with different arm slots. And his 98 mph got by plenty of guys this past year. If only he had a good head on his shoulders...

Welsh and Brantley talked at length about Lorenzen's slider and changeup improvements, to go with his 99 mph heater. His starts down the stretch proved how effective each of his 3 pitches are.
And they are good relief pitchers, why would you want to take the risk of making them starters? I don't consider throwing a fastball at 3 different arm slots 3 different pitches. If that were the case, Bronson Arroyo had 12 pitches in his arsenal.

I watch the Reds nearly every game they are on TV. Iglesias may have thrown 98 sometime once in his life, but to say he hits 98 even semi regularly is false. His fastball is low 90's now. That's why he struggles at times. He can't get his fastball by guys and he struggles with control of the slider.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Lorenzen made $3.75 mill last season, well within good money for what he does for the Reds. He'll be in the same spot as Iglesias in a few seasons. The union does a good job getting these guys money, but it also prices them out of jobs. The Reds can't afford to have guys like Iglesias and Lorenzen making $10-$12 mill for what they do for the team. It's very simple.

Now, IF Lorenzen can prove to be a worthy starter, he'll hit free agency in 2022 and he may be worth that kind of money.

In simple terms, you could have had 3 Mike Lorenzen's for 1 Rasiel Iglesias this past season. What if you had 3 Lorenzens in the bullpen? It's baseball economics.
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
And they are good relief pitchers, why would you want to take the risk of making them starters? I don't consider throwing a fastball at 3 different arm slots 3 different pitches. If that were the case, Bronson Arroyo had 12 pitches in his arsenal.

I watch the Reds nearly every game they are on TV. Iglesias may have thrown 98 sometime once in his life, but to say he hits 98 even semi regularly is false. His fastball is low 90's now. That's why he struggles at times. He can't get his fastball by guys and he struggles with control of the slider.
Of course you are wrong..... Iglesias averaged 96.4mph on his fastball this season. His 2nd highest average fastball for his career. Of course the slider is a pitch that usually ends up a ball. It's supposed to break out of the strike zone. The goal is to get the batter thinking it is a fastball and swing at it as it breaks out of the zone. Raisel had his best year ever at getting batters to swing at pitches outside the zone. It was also his best year at limiting contact on pitches outside the zone (swing and misses). He also had his lowest contact rate of his career. He had his best year ever of first pitch strikes and swinging strike percentage.
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
Lorenzen made $3.75 mill last season, well within good money for what he does for the Reds. He'll be in the same spot as Iglesias in a few seasons. The union does a good job getting these guys money, but it also prices them out of jobs. The Reds can't afford to have guys like Iglesias and Lorenzen making $10-$12 mill for what they do for the team. It's very simple.

Now, IF Lorenzen can prove to be a worthy starter, he'll hit free agency in 2022 and he may be worth that kind of money.

In simple terms, you could have had 3 Mike Lorenzen's for 1 Rasiel Iglesias this past season. What if you had 3 Lorenzens in the bullpen? It's baseball economics.
You could have had 3 guys making Lorenzen money but you would not have had 3 guys making Lorenzen money AND getting Lorenzen results.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Lorenzen made $3.75 mill last season, well within good money for what he does for the Reds. He'll be in the same spot as Iglesias in a few seasons. The union does a good job getting these guys money, but it also prices them out of jobs. The Reds can't afford to have guys like Iglesias and Lorenzen making $10-$12 mill for what they do for the team. It's very simple.

Now, IF Lorenzen can prove to be a worthy starter, he'll hit free agency in 2022 and he may be worth that kind of money.

In simple terms, you could have had 3 Mike Lorenzen's for 1 Rasiel Iglesias this past season. What if you had 3 Lorenzens in the bullpen? It's baseball economics.
Literally no one suggested that Lorenzen or Raisel should make $10-$12M dollars. I said starters make more money because they are more important. I am fine with getting rid of Iglesias' big salary since he is a relief pitcher.

Also in 2020 Iglesias had 31 K in 23 innings, which is a whopping 12.1 K per 9 innings, average fastball 96.4 MPH. Get a clue before you type please. Some things never change.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Of course you are wrong..... Iglesias averaged 96.4mph on his fastball this season. His 2nd highest average fastball for his career. Of course the slider is a pitch that usually ends up a ball. It's supposed to break out of the strike zone. The goal is to get the batter thinking it is a fastball and swing at it as it breaks out of the zone. Raisel had his best year ever at getting batters to swing at pitches outside the zone. It was also his best year at limiting contact on pitches outside the zone (swing and misses). He also had his lowest contact rate of his career. He had his best year ever of first pitch strikes and swinging strike percentage.
and yet with all that said, he's not worth $9 mill or more for us. Now the Angels print money, heck they just finished paying Zack Cozart $36 million over the last 3 seasons - he played 96 games over that span.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Literally no one suggested that Lorenzen or Raisel should make $10-$12M dollars. I said starters make more money because they are more important. I am fine with getting rid of Iglesias' big salary since he is a relief pitcher.

Also in 2020 Iglesias had 31 K in 23 innings, which is a whopping 12.1 K per 9 innings, average fastball 96.4 MPH. Get a clue before you type please. Some things never change.
Ok, starters DO make more money because they ARE more important. But the TEAM decides the role, not the player.

And I hate to tell you, but about every pitcher in baseball's strikeouts are up, striking out batters isn't a big deal anymore.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
All of your posts are either completely obvious OR 100% wrong.

OBVIOUS:
Ok, starters DO make more money because they ARE more important. But the TEAM decides the role, not the player.
And I hate to tell you, but about every pitcher in baseball's strikeouts are up, striking out batters isn't a big deal anymore.
No kidding. Everyone knows this.

I made the post about Iglesias' strike outs because you said this, which is 100% wrong:
Iglesias may have thrown 98 sometime once in his life, but to say he hits 98 even semi regularly is false. His fastball is low 90's now. That's why he struggles at times. He can't get his fastball by guys and he struggles with control of the slider.
Your terrible and incorrect posts have livened up the thread though. Props for that.
 

14Red

Well-known member
All of your posts are either completely obvious OR 100% wrong.

OBVIOUS:

No kidding. Everyone knows this.

I made the post about Iglesias' strike outs because you said this, which is 100% wrong:


Your terrible and incorrect posts have livened up the thread though. Props for that.
Everyone has their role...😂 happy holidays to you and yours
 

14Red

Well-known member
So does the Reds have a chance to resign Bauer? Does Bauer drop like Dallas Keuchel a few years ago? Remember him? After the 2018 season, he was supposed to break the bank with a huge deal...off season goes by...nothing...spring training...nothing....the Braves finally signed him in May, he made his first start June 21 that season.
If he's still out there near the end of spring training, can the Reds entice him back with a one year - $25 mill year deal?
 

brianwr112

Well-known member
So does the Reds have a chance to resign Bauer? Does Bauer drop like Dallas Keuchel a few years ago? Remember him? After the 2018 season, he was supposed to break the bank with a huge deal...off season goes by...nothing...spring training...nothing....the Braves finally signed him in May, he made his first start June 21 that season.
If he's still out there near the end of spring training, can the Reds entice him back with a one year - $25 mill year deal?
Dallas Keuchel came out and said he pitched all of 2016 in pain. That might've had a lot to do with teams staying off him. The only reason teams may be slow to offer Bauer very large money is the uncertainty with COVID...not the player
 

wolves82

Well-known member
I read an online opinion article yesterday that said the Reds were not likely to re-sign Bauer. I forget where I saw it, some baseball writer via Twitter. He's probably right, but I still think the market will stay super soft for economic reasons and there is a sliver of hope the Reds can get him slightly above the $19M offer that he rejected.
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
So does the Reds have a chance to resign Bauer? Does Bauer drop like Dallas Keuchel a few years ago? Remember him? After the 2018 season, he was supposed to break the bank with a huge deal...off season goes by...nothing...spring training...nothing....the Braves finally signed him in May, he made his first start June 21 that season.
If he's still out there near the end of spring training, can the Reds entice him back with a one year - $25 mill year deal?
No
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Anyone else hear the rumors that the Reds were discussing Suarez and Moose with teams yesterday? Hopefully just normal off-season due diligence...

All I want for Christmas is for the Reds to avoid a total rebuild. And a Browns division championship.
 

14Red

Well-known member
I read an online opinion article yesterday that said the Reds were not likely to re-sign Bauer. I forget where I saw it, some baseball writer via Twitter. He's probably right, but I still think the market will stay super soft for economic reasons and there is a sliver of hope the Reds can get him slightly above the $19M offer that he rejected.
I'm with ya, we have a chance until he's signed, and there are only a couple of teams that can even consider paying him what he's looking for. Reds may be able to get a one year deal with him last minute.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Anyone else hear the rumors that the Reds were discussing Suarez and Moose with teams yesterday? Hopefully just normal off-season due diligence...

All I want for Christmas is for the Reds to avoid a total rebuild. And a Browns division championship.
I think Reds fans have to look at a team like the Rays for the Reds to mimick. The Reds are shopping everyone, and that's not a terrible thing. The Reds need to focus on guys who are controllable, are not overly expensive and produce. Now that's going to take us out of the market for superstars. The other rumor I've heard is after this upcoming baseball season, the owners are prepared to lock the players out and play hardball to get a salary cap. The Reds may just be positioning themselves to have as few long term contracts as possible after 2021.
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
I think Reds fans have to look at a team like the Rays for the Reds to mimick. The Reds are shopping everyone, and that's not a terrible thing. The Reds need to focus on guys who are controllable, are not overly expensive and produce. Now that's going to take us out of the market for superstars. The other rumor I've heard is after this upcoming baseball season, the owners are prepared to lock the players out and play hardball to get a salary cap. The Reds may just be positioning themselves to have as few long term contracts as possible after 2021.
Votto's contract is the only that is burdensome. The rest are all good values.

They need to add and win, not subtract and rebuild.

Where's all the cash that William's said they were stockpiling during the rebuild?
 

Indiandad

Well-known member
Anyone else hear the rumors that the Reds were discussing Suarez and Moose with teams yesterday? Hopefully just normal off-season due diligence...

All I want for Christmas is for the Reds to avoid a total rebuild. And a Browns division championship.
Moose makes sense if you move Senzel to 2nd base and Shogo to CF and Winker in LF.

Suarez only if you get a massive haul and think that India is ready (which he isn't, at least not for a championship caliber team).
 

14Red

Well-known member
Votto's contract is the only that is burdensome. The rest are all good values.

They need to add and win, not subtract and rebuild.

Where's all the cash that William's said they were stockpiling during the rebuild?
The Votto contract is the Votto contract and it or he isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

The Reds have not traded anyone yet. They are "listening" to offers. That's not saying your making deals. It's just getting a feel for what out there, publicly. I, for one am not a big Nick Senzel guy. He's been nothing but hurt since we drafted him, and he's been ok when he's played. If he's part of a deal to bring some other top prospects, let's go. I just never see him being a guy who's going to play 140 games a season. He can't even play a month straight.
I'd like to see the team who's interested in Mike Moustakas? He was kind of a disappointment last year. We know he's limited defensively, so he needs to mash to keep a spot at 2nd base, and like most of our team, had an off season.
 

14Red

Well-known member
The Rays are trading Blake Snell to the Padres for 4 prospects. Could you imagine if the Reds traded their best pitcher for prospects? But this is kinda the way small market teams have to do it. Snell is the one guy that can bring something back for the Rays, so they moved him. They know they can't just build in their own draft, so they pull from other teams drafts and hopefully for them, enough stick and they can stay competitive.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
The Rays are trading Blake Snell to the Padres for 4 prospects. Could you imagine if the Reds traded their best pitcher for prospects? But this is kinda the way small market teams have to do it. Snell is the one guy that can bring something back for the Rays, so they moved him. They know they can't just build in their own draft, so they pull from other teams drafts and hopefully for them, enough stick and they can stay competitive.
Very similar to Sonny Gray situation.
- Snell makes 10.5M in 2021, 12M in 2022, and 16M in 2023, then UFA in 2024.
- Sonny is at 10M in 2021, 10.2M in 2022, and club option for 12M in 2023, then UFA in 2024.

If the Reds are even going to pretend to try to contend, they need to keep Sonny, with that incredibly favorable contract. I mean, Reds are paying Miley 8M, is Sonny a huge bargain or what? Any trade of Gray should bring a haul equivalent to greater than what was given for Snell.

Clearly the Rays decided it was re-build time. Padres are loading up, also reportedly getting Darvish today/tomorrow. Rotation would be Snell, Darvish and the young guns Lamet and Paddack. Wow. And they lost Clevinger for the season to TJ surgery. Gunning for the Dodgers...
 
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