eastside_purple
Well-known member
There’s validity to your statement of course. Both parties have some culpability, but to argue it’s equal in the present situation is disingenuous.
The Great Unraveling
- Thread starter lotr10
- Start date
It is spiteful, but should Trump just walk? Even Republican Congressmen and Senators are now agreeing that he instigated the attack on the Capitol. What do you propose instead? Pence did not support evoking the 25th even though that would have been a acceptable solution. Trump could have resigned and let Pence pardon him, but his ego wouldn’t allow that. There definitely should be a consequence. He has grossly violated his oath of office, and lives were lost. Getting away completely would send the absolutely wrong message to future Presidents.
There is solid statistical evidence of irregularities having occurred. This was the fist time we used mail in voting on such a massive scale. This alone would warrant a close look after the fact at how everything went.
Throw in the documented issues, that may or may not be important, and an investigation into whether this election was properly conducted is more then warranted.
Our side would say the same thing but with very different meaning.
Nothing any democrat has done has ever equaled the attack on the Capitol.
eastside_purple
Well-known member
Since there was no cheating, the biggest problem is those who perpetuate the lie that it happened.
I’m sure you felt this strongly about this in 2016 as well.
eastside_purple
Well-known member
Well many on your side still cling to lies of a stolen election, so....
Absolutely he should walk. I've read his speech there is nothing in it that motivated those people to do what they did.
You could not convict Trump of what you charge in any court of law in America. The only way you can believe that speech, and again have you read it, instigated the riot in the Capital Building is to believe that the people were reading between the lines. But that sort of reasoning, rather then looking at the plain language of what Trump said, could be used to claim that any partisan political speech is an incitement to violence.
Any negative consequences that Trump receives from this should be confined to the reputational and political. And that should be the end of it. What your side is advocating is vengeance. And pursuing vengeance never ends well for all involved.
And they will cling to this belief until a serious effort is made to convince them otherwise and that starts with a serious investigation into the charges.
thisisinsane
Well-known member
“ You get into trouble when you start telling people how to live their life like who they can marry or prayer in public school.”
You mean like telling people they can’t congregate to worship their god? You mean like telling people they must wear a mask? You mean like telling people that they are inherently racist as a whole?
You should change your wording to “Conservatives/Republicans get into trouble...blah, blah, blah.”
It is perfectly acceptable for the correct people to tell the stupid people what do do/think, in your opinion. Got it. You (ProV) have to be one of the most vile human beings on this board. Double sided talk, punk move.
SayMyName
Well-known member
Again, Trump NEVER said to riot or attack the Capitol...Just as the BLM "protests" turned violent, you can't control what some end up doing. Why is this so hard for you to understand? I'm shocked you aren't blaming Trump for the dump in Pelosi's office.
eastside_purple
Well-known member
The charges are meritless. See 64 court decisions.
I'm not saying we need to act like angels. This is the real world and I have no intention of being a saint. I would not have advocated for an investigation into election fraud in 2016 because the guy I wanted to win won.
But unlike you, I would have had no problem with those that did demand an investigation. In fact my thinking would have been along the lines of wanting it prove that the election was honest. That makes the victory all the sweeter.
Ok, we’re done here. Thanks.
eastside_purple
Well-known member
Keep in mind, trump baselessly alleged voter fraud in 2016 as well since he lost the popular vote and established a commission as many of his supports in congress suggested for 2020. They found nothing, of course.
You don’t believe the right is responsible for moralizing on all kinds of issues concerning how people live their lives? From gay marriage to the right to life debate to transgender issues the right has certainly tried to impose their views.
That is simply not true. If you applied the same standards to the speeches that democrat leaders made in reaction to the summer of violence in America's cities as you do to Trumps speech then the democrats encouraged burning & looting on a massive scale.
Almost all Trump supporters that I know have condemned the riot and breaking into the Capital Building. What we don't agree with was that this was a singularly horrible event in American history. We see the looting & burning of American cities for political reasons as a much worse thing. This is an agree to disagree moment.
That you can't see that this thread is about way more then Trump is sad.
Please...as soon as Trump lost the election these career swamp-rats no longer had to pretend they like or agree with Trump in any way shape or form. He was never one of them. He was an outsider. Biden has been one of them for 50 years. He's their friend and they know they can continue their personal gravy trains with Biden at the helm.
I find it pretty telling that when said candidate loses an election, the next logical conclusion that's floated is Civil War. I remember when my kid's iPad screen shattered after dropping it, and he lamented that it was the end of the world. And then 20 minutes later he was enamored by the next shiny object. It may be an apples to oranges comparison, but the parallels are the same. This nonsense is cyclical, and pops up from time to time in politics and society as a whole. 1st world problems are hard.
eastside_purple
Well-known member
It’s all about trump lying about the election. That’s literally the reason we are having this discussion at all. ??
I just do not understand the name calling. Doesn't bother me, just not understanding it. I could care less who marries whom, religious beliefs, gender identification(which is ridiculous), legalizing drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc. Live and let live, yet the fact that you may identify with a certain group you become an idiot.
I read it on here daily and watch it on tv and imho the left leaning is far more guilty of this than the right.
I read it on here daily and watch it on tv and imho the left leaning is far more guilty of this than the right.
What would you consider weaponizing the fbi, irs, and creating a fake Russian story to take down a newly elected President?
The extremists at the Capitol last Wednesday you think will return to normal by the end of the summer?? Sincerely hope so, but they seem very committed to me. For that matter BLM is also very committed.
There is a difference between PERSONAL moralizing and employing the government and corporate power to enforce such moralizing. I may not approve of gay marriage and even speak out against it but I can't get people fired over it.
It's true that back in the 1950's the right did use government & corporate power to enforce their moral beliefs and the 60's was a reaction against that. But the pendulum has swung hard in the other direction and it's been stuck there for the last 30 years. It's time to move it back to the middle.
What I or others think about the social causes that you favor is our business. It's immoral to try to force us to accept them. Why you guys need our buy in is beyond me. Live your life as you want, it's your business.
Oh and for the record I'm pretty liberal when it comes to most social issues. I just don't need to have everyone agree with my beliefs to validate them in my own eyes.
First I wouldn’t agree with your claim of a fake Russian story, but using IRS to go after political enemies is wrong, but it doesn’t compare to Trump’s behavior the last two months, especially the attack on the Capitol.
I'm pretty level-headed, and though a lot of Trump's conduct doesn't float my boat, I absolutely believe the election results were compromised this year...especially due to the mail-in balloting...and we will never know the true results, but history will record it as a Biden win.It’s all about trump lying about the election. That’s literally the reason we are having this discussion at all. ??
The main thing required is to never allow it to happen again. If a candidate I support doesn't win, so be it, but when there are so many irregularities in the process it's hard to trust the system any longer. My hope is what happened can never be replicated and COVID made it a one-off.
I
I just want to know who to shoot when the time comes.I'm worried about the current American divide getting so wide that civil war will follow. I know this sounds delusional to those not paying attention but history is littered with examples of civil wars erupting in societies as divided as ours. Or put differently, we show all the symptoms.
So I came across this compelling article and it made me think and reconsider my own personal role in stoking the great divide. I think it's a must read for anyone worried about the state of affairs.
The article quotes a German, Heinrich Heine, who in the early 19th century predicted the horrors of Germany in the 20th century. I think it also applies to us:
“Do not laugh at one who foresees in the region of the visible the revolution that has already occurred in the invisible domain of the spirit. Thought precedes action as lightning precedes thunder.”
Lets discuss and try to be civil about it.
So..the Russian story wasn't fake?