The future of EdChoice

TCSoup said:
Ohio graduates won't have to be “proficient” in math or English ...www.cleveland.com › news › 2020/02 › ohio-graduates-wont-have-to...

And another proposal to dummy down our Educational System here in Ohio.....
The comment section at the end is worth reading.
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? Some great comments on this article. My favorite thus far is:

"I grdidated hi skool and did porly in English and I have made it threw life ok. I just gots miself hired in as a proof reader at the PD!"
 
ringer2 said:
You haven’t answered the question about whether you are opposed to public money going to private insurance companies - who all play by different rules - via Obamacare. Or if you are opposed to public money going to private vendors to provide military support. They play by different rules than the army as well. The whole point of public money going to private entities is PRECISELY BECAUSE THERE ARE DIFFERENT RULES. If there was no benefit to having different - not necessarily better or easier, just different - then there would be no need for two different systems.

Private schools have the ultimate accountability and transparency. People don’t like them? They leave and take their tuition with them. EdChoice is not “propping up” privates as you claim because people are VOLUNTARILY going there.
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Ok where else can you elect to take a portion of your property taxes to an entity of your choice?

And EdChoice is propping up privates because many would be closed without EdChoice, especially in Cincinnati. People VOLUNTARILY go there because the government gave them free money to do so. They wouldn't have gone without that free incentive. You keep saying that the privates have the ultimate accountability and transparency.... I don't think you quite understand the meaning of those words.
 
ringer2 said:
You miss the point that the PARENTS believe the they are getting a better education action for THEIR CHILD. That’s all that matters, not some bureaucratic definition of effectiveness.
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The only reason they believe that is the bureaucratic definition because without said bureaucratic definition, they wouldn't be leaving a "failing" school to attend the privates.
 
ringer2 said:
You haven’t answered the question about whether you are opposed to public money going to private insurance companies - who all play by different rules - via Obamacare. Or if you are opposed to public money going to private vendors to provide military support. They play by different rules than the army as well. The whole point of public money going to private entities is PRECISELY BECAUSE THERE ARE DIFFERENT RULES. If there was no benefit to having different - not necessarily better or easier, just different - then there would be no need for two different systems.

Private schools have the ultimate accountability and transparency. People don’t like them? They leave and take their tuition with them. EdChoice is not “propping up” privates as you claim because people are VOLUNTARILY going there.
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WTF are you talking about now?

You simply keep missing the point that the only way you can qualify for vouchers is because the public schools are held to these BS standards and deemed "failing" and therefore you can go to a private school, not held to the same standards. Only on Mars and in your head is it about choice.
 
cincifbfan said:
Ok where else can you elect to take a portion of your property taxes to an entity of your choice?

And EdChoice is propping up privates because many would be closed without EdChoice, especially in Cincinnati. People VOLUNTARILY go there because the government gave them free money to do so. They wouldn't have gone without that free incentive. You keep saying that the privates have the ultimate accountability and transparency.... I don't think you quite understand the meaning of those words.
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It’s not free money, it’s their tax dollars. And yeah, they voluntarily go there because they believe it is a better option than the public school.

I like how after your healthcare analogy blew up in your face, you moved the goal post. Lol.
 
"Education is free. Freedom of education shall be enjoyed under the condition fixed by law and under the supreme control of the state" Karl Marx, Das Kapital
 
eastside_purple said:
It’s not free money, it’s their tax dollars. And yeah, they voluntarily go there because they believe it is a better option than the public school.

I like how after your healthcare analogy blew up in your face, you moved the goal post. Lol.
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I don't think my healthcare analogy blew up in my face whatsoever and not quite sure how or when I moved the goal post. You and the private backers keep changing the narrative, I've been completely consistent.

It most certainly is free money, no matter how you try to spin it.

Play by the same rules if you want the same public money.
 
eastside_purple said:
It’s not free money, it’s their tax dollars. And yeah, they voluntarily go there because they believe it is a better option than the public school.

I like how after your healthcare analogy blew up in your face, you moved the goal post. Lol.
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Or how everyone including you keeps forgetting certain facts about this argument.
 
cincifbfan said:
I don't think my healthcare analogy blew up in my face whatsoever and not quite sure how or when I moved the goal post. You and the private backers keep changing the narrative, I've been completely consistent.

It most certainly is free money, no matter how you try to spin it.

Play by the same rules if you want the same public money.
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It absolutely blew up in your face. Tax dollars for government programs go to private companies and organizations by consumer choice everyday.

It’s their tax dollars, certainly not free money. That’s dumb by even your standards.
 
eastside_purple said:
It absolutely blew up in your face. Tax dollars for government programs go to private companies and organizations by consumer choice everyday.

It’s their tax dollars, certainly not free money. That’s dumb by even your standards.
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It didn't blow up. I said public and private hospitals play by different rules just as private and public schools do. The difference is private hospitals don't get property tax dollars.

I know how difficult these complex topics can be to understand.
 
cincifbfan said:
It didn't blow up. I said public and private hospitals play by different rules just as private and public schools do. The difference is private hospitals don't get property tax dollars.

I know how difficult these complex topics can be to understand.
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Private hospitals don’t get property tax, but consumers can still take their government program tax dollars and spend it at private hospitals for services.
 
It costs much more than the voucher amount to educate a student. For just voucher students, getting less than $7,000 for each kid on a voucher when it costs over $10,000 to educate that kid saves the public school over $3,000. Per voucher.

In addition, private schools are doing public schools a great service and saving public schools huge amounts of money, and have been for decades. If all the private schools closed, public schools couldn’t handle the increase in enrollment.

So why do public schools complain about a few crumbs going to private schools that are doing public schools’ jobs for them? If you only look at the small amount of funds going to private schools and don’t consider the overwhelmingly larger number of students privates take off public schools’ hands, you’re fooling yourselves.

You should be eternally grateful for the great service private schools have done and continue to do for taxpayers and public school districts.
 
eastside_purple said:
Private hospitals don’t get property tax, but consumers can still take their government program tax dollars and spend it at private hospitals for services.
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I'm talking about property tax dollars, you are bringing in all kinds of other examples that are not relevant. I like comparing apples to apples.
 
cincifbfan said:
I'm talking about property tax dollars, you are bringing in all kinds of other examples that are not relevant. I like comparing apples to apples.
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Even you can’t keep track of all the dumb arguments you’ve made in here. Lol.

cincifbfan said:
Yes they are paying like I pay for my health insurance but still have taxes that pay for public health subsidies like Medicare and Medicaid. I can't take my portion of those taxes and offset my premium costs.
But the privates aren't providing satisfactory results either when you look at the performance of their voucher students, it's worse most of the time. But that doesn't get any publicity. Only the notion that publics are bad and privates are good when it's not accurate.

Taxes are designed to benefit the public, not private companies.
I will most certainly speak about capitalism because the EdChoice proponents can't seem to grasp that most of their schools would be closed without public funds because the public doesn't see the value. Especially here in Cincinnati, the market is way oversaturated with Catholic schools, vouchers are keeping the doors open instead of the market doing what it's supposed to do. Use the tax dollars for exactly what they are supposed to be used for.
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Parents should decide what is the best school choice for their children.
Not the teachers unions, government school employees or supporters, or bureaucrats.
 
eastside_purple said:
Lol, what facts did I forget?
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Zzzzzzzzzzz.

gobluetom said:
Parents should decide what is the best school choice for their children.
Not the teachers unions, government school employees or supporters, or bureaucrats.
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Agree. Just have everyone abide by the same standards and we do not have a problem. It has been said over and over again on this thread.

Otherwise, let a private be what it has always been. PRIVATE.
 
irish_buffalo said:
Zzzzzzzzzzz.



Agree. Just have everyone abide by the same standards and we do not have a problem. It has been said over and over again on this thread.

Otherwise, let a private be what it has always been. PRIVATE.
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"Education is free. Freedom of education shall be enjoyed under the condition fixed by law and under the supreme control of the state" Karl Marx, Das Kapital
Reply
 
cincifbfan said:
Ok where else can you elect to take a portion of your property taxes to an entity of your choice?
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Well, let’s see. You mean like anyone getting an ACA subsidy and purchasing insurance for themselves from a private company? Or anyone giving money to a private entity and then claiming a tax exemption? Let’s say cincyfbfan donates $2000 to his local private entity booster club for a turf install. Or maybe a local soup kitchen because he’s that kind of guy. He claims a deduction on his state and federal income taxes. But that’s different, right?
 
ringer2 said:
Well, let’s see. You mean like anyone getting an ACA subsidy and purchasing insurance for themselves from a private company? Or anyone giving money to a private entity and then claiming a tax exemption? Let’s say cincyfbfan donates $2000 to his local private entity booster club for a turf install. Or maybe a local soup kitchen because he’s that kind of guy. He claims a deduction on his state and federal income taxes. But that’s different, right?
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It is different, I said PROPERTY taxes.
 
irish_buffalo said:
Zzzzzzzzzzz.



Agree. Just have everyone abide by the same standards and we do not have a problem. It has been said over and over again on this thread.

Otherwise, let a private be what it has always been. PRIVATE.
Click to expand...

The standards should not be set by government bureaucrats .

The standards of what kind of education a child gets need to be determined by the parents, not some arbitrary board with an agenda(to keep more tax dollars for their teachers unions, ETC)
 
aged jock said:
It costs much more than the voucher amount to educate a student. For just voucher students, getting less than $7,000 for each kid on a voucher when it costs over $10,000 to educate that kid saves the public school over $3,000. Per voucher.
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If this was true no school would take open enrollment students but currently if think the number is 80% of school district are willing educate kids from outside of there school district. Clearly the ~7k a school district gets from the state more than covers the incremental cost of an additional student.
 
CC Track Fan said:
If this was true no school would take open enrollment students but currently if think the number is 80% of school district are willing educate kids from outside of there school district. Clearly the ~7k a school district gets from the state more than covers the incremental cost of an additional student.
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Only if it’s incremental. From the whining you would think it’s the only way privates survive, while driving publics to bankruptcy.
 
gobluetom said:
The standards should not be set by government bureaucrats .

The standards of what kind of education a child gets need to be determined by the parents, not some arbitrary board with an agenda(to keep more tax dollars for their teachers unions, ETC)
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When it comes to tax dollars yes, there needs to be standards set.

And the ADA and Title IX are not arbitrary and set by some board with a union agenda. You are being just plain silly and of course ringer "liked" it as he has trouble understanding WHY EdChoice is flawed. Hint-hint: It is not because of anyone's "choice."
 
irish_buffalo said:
Zzzzzzzzzzz.



Agree. Just have everyone abide by the same standards and we do not have a problem. It has been said over and over again on this thread.

Otherwise, let a private be what it has always been. PRIVATE.
Click to expand...
How about the Publics coming up to the Standards of the Privates then. Then we wouldn't be having this argument or need for Ed's Choice .
 
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