Terry Francona done a great job.

wolves82

Well-known member
The handling of the starters is beyond idiotic. Bullpen be toast by august.Since the world series he lost. He been one of the worst managers in baseball.

You have the second lowest payroll in the MLB. You have J Ramirez, E Rosario, Bieber, Reyes, Civale, Clase and Karinchak. Plus a bunch of other guys who would be benchers (or AAA) on most MLB teams.

You have a 39-30 record. Manager is not your problem, in fact, it is very likely your biggest strength. Quit your crying. You always want coaches fired. But this is just dumb.
 

14Red

Well-known member
If Francona would be fired, he's be unemployed for about 10 seconds. He's the best manager in baseball, hands down, and I'm a Reds fan.
 

clarkgriswold

Well-known member
Francona and the front office should get rewards not criticism. With Dolan handcuffing the franchise with his ridiculous frugality we Indians fans are damn lucky they're not the Pirates or Orioles. With the sh!++y hand they've been dealt they are still 8 games over .500.
 

mcm.1019

Active member
Again, who do you want instead? And you do realize it's not his fault that the entire starting pitching staff is hurt, right?
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
Amazing how Cleveland gets their top players poached by the rest of the league and continues to be competitive but yeah, I'm sure Francona should be fired. (eye roll)
 

clarkgriswold

Well-known member
Brian, I have to ask- what the hell did you expect? Bieber out. Civale out. Plesac out. Quantrill stumbles. McKinzie stumbles. Allen has issues. They have the Columbus Clippers staff. Reyes hurt, Naylor hurt. Perez hurt. The ownership lets talent escape every damn year due to the owner's cheapness. With all of that and a roster that at full staff doesn't have 5 above average players at their respective positions, they've stayed above .500. If Francona isn't a good manager he's one hell of a magician.

Oh, and talent development. Perez from the organization. Lindor was from the organization. Ramirez is from the organization. Civale from the organization. Karinchek from the organization...

Again, what the hell did you expect?
 

clarkgriswold

Well-known member
He blew the world series.he was a great manager.he lost it.
Still waiting for an answer to my question. And that was in 2016, so that means he's been bad for the last 600-700 games?

Earl Weaver, Bobby Cox, Case Stengel, Connie Mack, Billy Martin, John McGraw, Sparky Anderson, Walter Alston, Tommy Lasorda... all lost multiple World Series. I guess they sucked too.
 

14Red

Well-known member
The day Francona gets fired, he'll have 5 job offers immediately. I'd fire David Bell and put Francona in Cincy in a heartbeat. Best manager in baseball, hands down.
 

14Red

Well-known member
The day Francona gets fired, he'll have 5 job offers immediately. I'd fire David Bell and put Francona in Cincy in a heartbeat. Best manager in baseball, hands down.
 

14Red

Well-known member
One thing in common with Ohio pro baseball fans, they love to blame ownership for losing. Players get credit for winning, Ownership and managers get slammed when they lose.
 

clarkgriswold

Well-known member
One thing in common with Ohio pro baseball fans, they love to blame ownership for losing. Players get credit for winning, Ownership and managers get slammed when they lose.
In Cleveland they get slammed when they consistently let All-Stars get away and bail on the team to the extent of having the lowest budget in baseball.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
One thing in common with Ohio pro baseball fans, they love to blame ownership for losing. Players get credit for winning, Ownership and managers get slammed when they lose.
Ownership is completely at fault in Cleveland. One of the wealthiest owners in all of baseball has the 2nd lowest payroll. Scouting department drafts guys like Lindor, Kluber, Bauer, Ramirez, etc, etc. Ownership pays for none of them to stay and refuses to spend on FA.
 

OldSoulon

Well-known member
Ownership is completely at fault in Cleveland. One of the wealthiest owners in all of baseball has the 2nd lowest payroll. Scouting department drafts guys like Lindor, Kluber, Bauer, Ramirez, etc, etc. Ownership pays for none of them to stay and refuses to spend on FA.
Actually, they didn't draft Bauer, not sure on Ramirez.

They've cheaped out on scouting, too.
 

cjb56

Well-known member
This might be the worst thread subject in Yappi history, which is saying a lot.

As has been pointed out in many prior posts, the Indians problem is ownership…not management and certainly not Terry Francona. How Tito is keeping this bare bones budget team over .500 with all the injuries sustained by key players is incredible.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
I stand corrected on some of the draft comments. Reds fan here, just defending Tito. The man is a great coach/manager, and is the primary reason the Tribe is respectable.
 

clarkgriswold

Well-known member
They're the 5th winningest team in all of baseball from 2015 to 2020 with a bargain basement budget.

As such, the "Francona hasn't been the same since the World Series" assertion is obviously horse......
 
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14Red

Well-known member
Ownership is completely at fault in Cleveland. One of the wealthiest owners in all of baseball has the 2nd lowest payroll. Scouting department drafts guys like Lindor, Kluber, Bauer, Ramirez, etc, etc. Ownership pays for none of them to stay and refuses to spend on FA.
And yet the Indians have hung around the top of the AL Central all season long? This is something I don't get with fans and others who follow the game, does it really matter who owns the team and what their net worth is? It's not your money. Plus, we've seen time and time and time and time again the teams who spend the most don't always win. In fact, most of the time we chide the owners who spend alot of money and never win, Yankees, Mets, Cubs, Dodgers, Angels just to name a few. Meanwhile teams like the Rays and A's are pretty successful with shoestring budgets? In baseball, you do not have to have an expensive roster to win. You simply do not. Now I feel awful for the Indians fans about Lindor, he is a guy who any ownership should had made sure he remained the face of the franchise. But to just overpay every player you have come up is a recipe for disaster.
My main point about Francona is he takes a team with little to no stars and seemingly makes it work every single year. To me, they have a pretty good draft/ development system with their pitchers. They always seem to have good pitchers coming up, and yes, you can't keep them all. Ideally, you'd like to draft a young pitcher, get him through his rookie deal and possibly his first big contract, then you have to consider letting him go, IF you have done a good job drafting and developing behind them. As we know in baseball, one player doesn't make a difference.
 

clarkgriswold

Well-known member
And yet the Indians have hung around the top of the AL Central all season long? This is something I don't get with fans and others who follow the game, does it really matter who owns the team and what their net worth is? It's not your money. Plus, we've seen time and time and time and time again the teams who spend the most don't always win. In fact, most of the time we chide the owners who spend alot of money and never win, Yankees, Mets, Cubs, Dodgers, Angels just to name a few. Meanwhile teams like the Rays and A's are pretty successful with shoestring budgets? In baseball, you do not have to have an expensive roster to win. You simply do not. Now I feel awful for the Indians fans about Lindor, he is a guy who any ownership should had made sure he remained the face of the franchise. But to just overpay every player you have come up is a recipe for disaster.
My main point about Francona is he takes a team with little to no stars and seemingly makes it work every single year. To me, they have a pretty good draft/ development system with their pitchers. They always seem to have good pitchers coming up, and yes, you can't keep them all. Ideally, you'd like to draft a young pitcher, get him through his rookie deal and possibly his first big contract, then you have to consider letting him go, IF you have done a good job drafting and developing behind them. As we know in baseball, one player doesn't make a difference.
Exactly, that's why Francona and the front office staff should get credit. The Dolans, however, have earned criticism. They bought and own a Ferrari yet they insist on taking it to the corner hack mechanic for repairs and put regular gas in it. I always admired Tom Monaghan who owned the Tigers in the 80's and early 90's who saw a professional sports franchise as a community asset that an owner should invest in for the sake of the community, not unlike a zoo or art museum, for which an owner had a responsibility to invest in and support rather than treat like some mom and pop corner stand where you couldn't risk losing money. I don't want the Dolans to overpay. I just want to see them pay. The Dolans are well on their way to insuring that their franchise ends up in Nashville.

I get that as a small market team the Indians can't be extravagant, but the lowest payroll in baseball? Sure the A's and Rays have had some success but they are the exception to the rule. The winningest team in the last 5 years? The Dodgers, the team with absolutely no budgetary restraints.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Exactly, that's why Francona and the front office staff should get credit. The Dolans, however, have earned criticism. They bought and own a Ferrari yet they insist on taking it to the corner hack mechanic for repairs and put regular gas in it. I always admired Tom Monaghan who owned the Tigers in the 80's and early 90's who saw a professional sports franchise as a community asset that an owner should invest in for the sake of the community, not unlike a zoo or art museum, for which an owner had a responsibility to invest in and support rather than treat like some mom and pop corner stand where you couldn't risk losing money. I don't want the Dolans to overpay. I just want to see them pay. The Dolans are well on their way to insuring that their franchise ends up in Nashville.

I get that as a small market team the Indians can't be extravagant, but the lowest payroll in baseball? Sure the A's and Rays have had some success but they are the exception to the rule. The winningest team in the last 5 years? The Dodgers, the team with absolutely no budgetary restraints.
I just wondered if you polled the owners that overspend and don't win what they think? I mean do you overspend this year, next year, and years to come? I mean that's bad business. See the meaning of success is different for owners than they are fans. Owners win, almost no matter what. I mean if the Dolans put the Indians up for sale, they'd make a HUGE profit. They really don't need to sell. If you own a home, do you sell it just because you can make alot of money on it? No. It's an investment and investments grow over time.
And for the Dolans, if Nashville comes a calling..that's even better, have Cleveland and Nashville get into a bidding war over the team. The Dodgers won their first world series since the 1980's!! They have been epic playoff failures for decades with the largest payrolls in baseball! That's bad business. Now the Dodgers have much, much, MUCH deeper pockets so it's all relative.
 
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