Summit and St. Xavier added to State Champions file.

Lancermania said:
If the Mansfield newspaper is correct in saying all five scorers finished in the top 19 in the team scoring,, that would make their team total listed as 53 incorrect. OHSAA's would be correct only if the fifth man was 18th, if 19th they would total 49. The intrigue continues. Btw, Mansfield newspaper doesn't show who finished 19th overall.
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I don't believe that detail is true. There's no evidence anywhere to support that paper's claim that Central's 5th man was 19th.

The OHSAA's website had 19th place overall as a runner from Cleveland St. Ignatius. As you state, even if you weed out the individuals, 19th place is too high of a finish for the team score to be 53. Unfortunately, there are no newspapers from the Cleveland area online from back then to consult to see if any individuals from Iggy qualified. That runner could have just as easily been from Cathedral Latin. That one lousy stinkin' year of the Elyria paper is not available on one database I use, and the other database I use doesn't have the issue of that paper that might possibly mention the district meet results. Too bad none of the 3 major Cleveland papers from back then seem to have archives online (News, Press, and Plain Dealer). The Cleveland area schools had their own district meet separate from the southern half of the NE district. The southern half sent Akron North, East Liverpool, Akron East, and Akron West as teams as well as the individual runners from Akron South, Warren Harding, Salem. Akron West is listed in the state meet results in the Mansfield paper, but they didn't even compete at the district meet, That is more likely Cleveland West as the results on the OHSAA's website show. It's a frustrating ordeal to piece all of this together.
 
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Two of the members of the 1949 state championship came back for the 1950 cross country season Reggie Victor and Lin Hamilton. This is from the 1950 Central high yearbook. It was an impressive four year run for Central.
 

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A couple other nuggets from the '40s. The person the OHSAA results claim to have finished 19th was definitely from St. Ignatius. He qualified to state again in 1950. Whether or not he was 19th in 1949, I cannot deny nor confirm.

Also, for anyone who is curious about where the state XC meet has been held over the years, an article hyping up the 1950 meet indicated that it was the 8th consecutive year to be held at Coolridge Golf Club in Mansfield (there was no state XC meet in '42).
 
I continue to get what Mr. Slippery calls the VIP treatment. Today I went to Western Hills and asked for the 1945 yearbook. As Mr. Slippery stated, yearbooks most probably won't have times at state. State meet places are not shown either. At the end of my stay there, they told me to keep the 1945 yearbook, so I left with it. Wow! The yearbook cleared one fact. In the picutre of the team, I had Hoyt Hammer identified as the fifth person from the left. That is incorrect as he was the team manager not a runner on the team. The fifth person is Paul Mills.
 
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Mr. Slippery said:
My question would be are the results shown by the OHSAA on their website their own original documents, or are they things that others have compiled from various sources?
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My experience is that OHSAA hasn't hired anyone to do any original research. Lancermania can speak to the fact of how difficult it was for Craig Whitmore to accept his work. The way Lancermania tells it, the discussions between the late Mr. Whitmore and OHSAA officials are legenday!

As an FYI per a few threads of mine in the past, I'm working on the first 20+ years of the state track meet currently as a research project. They are the most difficult results/names to track down, but I'm well into and hope to post a 90% comprehensive detailing of those meets by the end of 2020. I just completed some research out in Zanesville/Newark recently and will heading back to the Granville/Pataskala area in coming weeks to complete some more research. Granville was the site of the original state meet in 1908, and had been the site of the 1906/1907 unofficial state meets.
 
I followed Mr. Slippery's advice and called up the library in Ripley, Ohio. The woman I talked to is going to look for information about Georgetwon's triumph on November 1, 1969. She said the newspaper called the News Democrat comes out weekly and they do have all the 1969 editions on microfilm.
 
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Lancermania said:
I followed Mr. Slippery's advice and called up the library in Ripley, Ohio. The woman I talked to is going to look for information about Georgetwon's triumph on November 1, 1969. She said the newspaper called the News Democrat comes out weekly and they do have all the 1969 editions on microfilm.
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Very nice of them to do so. I'm still going out there, however, as I have district research continuing and will look myself for the 1969 state XC info.
I've put in a request for info from the man himself, however. A contact of mine is in contact with Vern Hawkins, and he's the man!
 
JAVMAN83 said:
My experience is that OHSAA hasn't hired anyone to do any original research. Lancermania can speak to the fact of how difficult it was for Craig Whitmore to accept his work. The way Lancermania tells it, the discussions between the late Mr. Whitmore and OHSAA officials are legenday!

As an FYI per a few threads of mine in the past, I'm working on the first 20+ years of the state track meet currently as a research project. They are the most difficult results/names to track down, but I'm well into and hope to post a 90% comprehensive detailing of those meets by the end of 2020. I just completed some research out in Zanesville/Newark recently and will heading back to the Granville/Pataskala area in coming weeks to complete some more research. Granville was the site of the original state meet in 1908, and had been the site of the 1906/1907 unofficial state meets.
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I figured that much. What I was wondering is if any of the stuff posted on the OHSAA's website was derived from original results sheets generated by whomever was in charge of results at the meet itself (meet officials, whoever handled timing in those days like a 1949 equivalent of FinishTiming), etc., or if it's just a bunch of secondhand and thirdhand information like most of what we're using to try and untangle this web?

It sounds like what you're telling me is there are no original results sheets available from that era, or am I misreading you?
 
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She send me a picture and the places the top five got to total 127 (11, 17, 22, ,30, 47) Unfortunately no connection of the runners except to say that Dan Lindsey was 11th. Only other bit of news is that Mike Bends was seventh man. They name the runners in the picture which are the same names we had from the picture on the file.
 
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JAVMAN83 said:
Very nice of them to do so. I'm still going out there, however, as I have district research continuing and will look myself for the 1969 state XC info.
I've put in a request for info from the man himself, however. A contact of mine is in contact with Vern Hawkins, and he's the man!
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I went out to Georgetown sometime between 2012-2015 and the stadium in the back is named after the man. I met the man in the parking lot at that time. The school is about 60 miles from my home.
 
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Mr. Slippery said:
I figured that much. What I was wondering is if any of the stuff posted on the OHSAA's website was derived from original results sheets generated by whomever was in charge of results at the meet itself (meet officials, whoever handled timing in those days (like a 1949 equivalent of FinishTiming), etc., or if it's just a bunch of secondhand and thirdhand information like most of what we're using to try and untangle this web?

It sounds like what you're telling me is there are no original results sheets available from that era, or am I misreading you?
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I can't speak to what OHSAA has on hand, but I've collected a lot more state track meet data, some of which is in conflict with OHSAA has posted on their website. Attached is the present state of my research from 1908-1920 when there were no classifications between schools. Note of caution: This is a document in process both in research terms and format terms. Items denoted in red are those that might be correct, but need further information to corroborate. You can compare this compilation with that on OHSAA's site.

Also, some of the team results have been validated (1908-09), but others are still in process of validation of scoring.
 

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I got to talk to the man himself. I called Georgetown high school and believe it or not Vern Hawkins is a substitute teacher today at 88 years old. He said he couldn't find all his treasurers about the meets any more. He thinks the yearbook from 1970 would have enough information to tie the names I have to the places in those newspapers. The trail is getting warmer.
 
All of a sudden the trail got cold again. The Georgetown 1970 Yearbook has a picture and a score but no names tied to places or times.
 
Because JAVMAN83 taught me you have to be relentless in your search for answers, I didn't quit until out of the blue, I stumbled on this article and there it was, a list of the runners who ran the places I had. https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sp...capitalized-small-school-division/1860915002/

Here is my solid gold paragraph from that link:

Dan Lindsey finished 12th on the course laid out over an Ohio State University golf course to lead the way for Georgetown. Dave Warner finished 17th, followed by Denny Brooks at 22, Jeff Green at 30, Rick Brown at 45, Mike Bends at 50 and Craig Jurin at 51
 
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Here are the changes I'm putting in to the numbers above. From multiple other sources we have Dan Lindsey at 11th and not 12th and Rick Brown at 47th and not 45. Other places remain the same 17, 22, and 30. These places than add up to the 127 total.
 
That's a heck of a find! I like the sentence acknowledging how little coverage the team received back in 1969. The writer seems almost ashamed by the Enquirer's lack of reporting back then.
 
You can thank Vern Hawkins for the identical uniform rule that was put in. He had all his runners wear different clothing, so his opponents couldn't tell where his kids were to tell their team if they were beating Georgetown or not. He laughed as he told me that one time one of his kids wore a mickey mouse shirt. For four years Hawkins team were in the hunt each year as they were either first or second in the team standings. Hawkins legacy is that he was a fun coach whose kids had fun at practices and meets and loved the man.
 
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