Summit and St. Xavier added to State Champions file.

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
I have added to the state team champions file Summit and St. Xavier. File link is below.


I have been unable to locate some information starting with 1986 and going backwards. Help is requested on supplying the missing information.

1986 Greenhills - missing fifth man info.
1983 - Lakota - missing times on 4th and 5th.
1982 - Elder - missing times on 3rd, 4th, and 5th scorers
1973 - Elder - missing 4th and 5th scorers
1969 - Georgetown, 1949 Central, 1944 Western Hill - missing top five scorers for all three schools.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
1986 Greenhills - 5th man was Jeff Bowling who placed 33rd in the team standings according to the OHSAA's website. I can't find a time on him in the Enquirer.
1983 Lakota - 4th man was Greg Crecilius who ran 16:31 to finish 31st, 5th man was Steve Crecilius who ran 16:53 to finish 61st. Found both in the Enquirer.
1982 Elder - 3rd man Mike Quatman ran 16:02 for 24th place, 4th man Tim Schenkel ran 16:05 for 27th place, and 5th man Jim Maurmeier ran 16:18 for 41st place. All were mentioned in the Enquirer.
1973 Elder - 4th man Jay Schleibaum was 26th place in 10:03, and 5th man Jim Waters was 60th place in 10:16. Both were in the Enquirer.
1969 Georgetown - Nothing so far. The Enquirer article barely mentions their victory. The meet was held at OSU's Golf Course.
1949 Central - Central's top 4 finishers are listed in the results on the OHSAA website: 5. Reginald Victor, 9. Lin Hamilton, 16. Herman Rose (could also be Post, very hard to read the type), 18. Cleophus Kelly. The Enquirer article only mentions the team's victory but none of the individual runners for Central. It is worth noting however that the dateline on the article mentions Mansfield, and the place where the meet was held was mentioned as Coolidge Golf Club.
1944 - Western Hills - Top 3 finishers listed on the OHSAA's website are: 6. Groeninger, 13. Moran, 17. Mills. Other names mentioned in the Enquirer as being on the team were: Timbert, Sydow, Westrich, and Porter. Whip out your Western Hills yearbooks. The meet site is named as Coolidge Golf Club, and the dateline on the article is Mansfield.

If I find anything more, I will update in this thread.
 
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JAVMAN83

Active member
According to the OHSAA website:

1986 Greenhills - 5th man was Jeff Bowling who placed 33rd in the team standings, can't find a time on him in your local newspaper.
1983 Lakota - 4th man was Greg Crecilius who ran 16:31 to finish 31st, 5th man was Steve Crecilius who ran 16:53 to finish 61st.
1982 Elder - 3rd man Mike Quatman ran 16:02 for 24th place, 4th man Tim Schenkel ran 16:05 for 27th place, and 5th man Jim Maurmeier ran 16:18 for 41st place.
1973 Elder - 4th man Jay Schleibaum was 26th place in 10:03, and 5th man Jim Waters was 60th place in 10:16.
1969 Georgetown - Nothing so far. Enquirer article barely mentions their victory. The meet was held at OSU's Golf Course.
1949 Central - Top 4 finishers are listed in the results on the OHSAA website: 5. Reginald Victor, 9. Lin Hamilton, 16. Herman Rose (could also be Post, very hard to read the type), 18. Cleophus Kelly. The Enquirer article only mentions the team's victory but none of the individual runners for Central. It is worth noting however that the dateline on the article mentions Mansfield, and the place where the meet was held was Coolidge Golf Club.
1944 - Western Hills - Top 3 finishers listed on the OHSAA's website are: 6. Groeninger, 13. Moran, 17. Mills. Other names mentioned in the Enquirer as being on the team were: Timbert, Sydow, Westrick, and Portes. Whip out your Western hills yearbooks. The meet site is once again named as Coolidge Golf Club, and the dateline on the article is Mansfield.

If I find anything more, I will update this post. Hope this helps.
Impressive!

Regarding G-town, the Ripley library hosts the microfilm of the "News Democrat". They are the only ones to do so as I seem to remember that a fire at the old News Democrat torched all their microfilm. Ripley is the only one, I believe, that has the old newspaper archives for that paper.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
More digging on 1944 Western Hills yielded some names:

Pat Groeninger, Jr. The Enquirer mentions that his father was a HS standout in HJ (6-3), LJ (22-6), and PV (11-9) at Hughes.
Ed Moran
Paul Mills
Westrich (also saw it spelled Westrick but probably a typo) Won't let me type the nickname version of Richard, haha.
Paul Sydow
George Timbert (Also seen as Tumbert but probably a typo)
Bob Porter (Also seen as Portes but probably a typo)

I am highly doubtful that the 4th and 5th runners from the state meet will be identified and with their times to boot. That said, Timbert must have had an off day at state since the Enquirer mentioned in an article before the city public high school championship that he was usually the team's 2nd finisher behind Groeninger. The city public school championship was held at Walnut Hills on Nov. 3 at 3:15.
 

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Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
More digging on the 1949 Central Vocational Hornets yields a batch of potential names:
Reginald "Reggie" Victor
Lynn Hamilton (could also be Lin as spelled in the results listed on the OHSAA's site)
Herman Rose
Cleophus Kelley (could also just be Kelly with one "E")
Earl Hornback
Harry Doty
Jorden (could be Jordan) Won't let me type the nickname version of Richard

Typos were so common in those days that it's difficult to know which spellings are the correct ones. I don't know that the 5th runner on that team will ever be known unless you can track down a former team member who has a solid recollection of the state meet. Nevermind the times they ran at the meet. That year's Cincinnati Public High School League meet was held at Avon Field on Thursday Oct. 20 at 3:30pm.
 
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Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
The only thing I can find on 1969 Georgetown is that their top finisher was Dan Lindsel who was 11th in the team race with a time of 10:41. The Dispatch listed the top 15 finishers. No other Georgetown runner was in the top 15.
 

JAVMAN83

Active member
Kelley was the correct spelling. His son was pretty good in the early 70s for Courter Tech, formerly Central & Central Vocational.

Jordan is the correct spelling
 
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Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
The online databases I use don't include any papers that would cover Georgetown extensively. As stated earlier, the Enquirer barely mentioned Georgetown's win. They focused their article more on the individual performances of St. X's 2nd place finisher and Elder's 4th place individual. I've found about all I can find on that one, but I hope it fills in some holes in you Southwest Ohioans' research.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
Three presents from Mr. Slippey make for a very early delightful Christmas. I can close the book on three teams: 1983 Lakota, 1982 Elder, and 1973 Elder.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
The fruits of Mr. Slippery's meticulous research can now be found on the web site on pages 16, 17, and 19 of this file. http://www.swotccca.com/Documents/Champions/Boys Team State Cross Country Champions Photos9.pdf
I seem to recall that issues of The Ohio High School Athlete have complete results of all state meets which may help with 1949 Central and 1944 Western Hills. I recall that the magazine was first published in 1940. I can go to Western Hills High School since I am so close to it. I know their school library has extensive yearbooks because I went there once when I first started my research and got an individual picture I needed. The picture I used for the 1951 Central High School state track & Field champions was on the cover of one of those issues of The Athlete.
 
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Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
I struck out. The issues of The Athlete have the exact same info as on the OHSAA web site. The Post had the same one line on Georgetown as the Enquirer.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
I struck out. The issues of The Athlete have the exact same info as on the OHSAA web site. The Post had the same one line on Georgetown as the Enquirer.
Since you know the date of the meet and know exactly what you're looking for to offer good instructions and make it a quick search for anyone who knows how to use microfilm, I would see about e-mailing or calling the library JAVMAN mentions in post #4 and ask if they have microfilm of G-Town's most local paper and see if they can take a look for you. I've had similar luck doing that with libraries in my vicinity and saved myself a few long trips in the car.
 

JAVMAN83

Active member
I struck out. The issues of The Athlete have the exact same info as on the OHSAA web site. The Post had the same one line on Georgetown as the Enquirer.
I have some business that will take me to Brown County next week. Will stop in the Ripley Library and see what I can dig up on the '69 G-Men team on the microfilm there.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
The Quest continues. Today I went to Greenhills Ohio and went to a building called the Greenhills Community Building. The Greenhills branch of the Cincinnati and Hamilton Country library is housed here. They had bound issues of the local newspaper from back then. I did find a story about the meet held Nomember 1, 1986 but no time on the fifth scorer although they did have his correct place 33rd in the team race. I was given a phone number of a person who still works for the school district and has the key to open a room upstairs called the Greenhills high school room.. She said they have every Greenhills high school yearbook ever published going back to the 1930s. She also knew Mo Henning well and will try to contact him about Jeff Bowling's time. She said the only time the room is opened to the public is for a Greenhill H.S. reunion.
 
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Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
The Quest continues. Today I went to Greenhills Ohio and went to a building called the Greenhills Community Building. The Greenhills branch of the Cincinnati and Hamilton Country library is housed here. They had bound issues of the local newspaper from back then. I did find a story about the meet held Nomember 1, 1986 but no time on the fifth scorer although they did have his correct place 33rd in the team race. I was given a phone number of a person who still works for the school district and has the key to open a room upstairs called the Greenhills high school room.. She said they have every Greenhills high school yearbook ever published going back to the 1930s. She also knew Mo Henning well and will try to contact him about Jeff Bowling's time. She said the only time the room is opened to the public is for a Greenhill H.S. reunion.
Sounds like you're getting some VIP treatment. I doubt you'll find the runner's state meet time in the yearbook. I'd love to be wrong about that. At best, you'll find his best time for the season, but it may not indicate which meet yielded that time. The most important thing right now is that you're keeping the trail hot.
 

JAVMAN83

Active member
The Quest continues. Today I went to Greenhills Ohio and went to a building called the Greenhills Community Building. The Greenhills branch of the Cincinnati and Hamilton Country library is housed here. They had bound issues of the local newspaper from back then. I did find a story about the meet held Nomember 1, 1986 but no time on the fifth scorer although they did have his correct place 33rd in the team race. I was given a phone number of a person who still works for the school district and has the key to open a room upstairs called the Greenhills high school room.. She said they have every Greenhills high school yearbook ever published going back to the 1930s. She also knew Mo Henning well and will try to contact him about Jeff Bowling's time. She said the only time the room is opened to the public is for a Greenhill H.S. reunion.
Yes, the yearbooks & all kinds of other Greenhills memorabilia are located in the building that houses the old gymnasium. It's a large room full of Pioneers stuff. I was there 2-3 times back in 2011 when I was doing research for the SW Ohio files.

FYI - Greenhills dates back to the fall of 1938 when they 1st opened. Their first district track champion was Jack Newkirk ('42) who won the pole vault in the Class B SW District meet in Cincinnati @ Western Hills HS. Winning height? 9' 8", the lowest winning height of any of the old small school district meets in SW Ohio.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
A little more digging has turned up the following:

A 3rd different spelling of the first name of Mr. Hamilton on the '49 Central Vocational team: The Mansfield newspaper spelled it Linn. I found no times listed in that paper. I figured it worth a look since the meet was held in Mansfield. However, I learned that the golf course where the meet was held is actually Coolridge Golf Course. The Enquirer had spelled it as Coolidge. The golf course still exists but is now known as Dawson Ridge after being sold in 2016 to new owners whose last name is Dawson. It's a 9-hole 86-acre layout. In the '49 meet, the top 10 placers received a gold shoe (a charm, a la the "Gold Pants" OSU football players receive if they beat Michigan? A trophy? A plaque?), and the next 20 received a silver shoe.

An additional look at '44 didn't yield anything.
 
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JAVMAN83

Active member
Lynn Hamilton - I've seen old Central Vocational yearbooks with that spelling in the public library in downtown Cincinnati.
Also, attached are the Ohio All-Star Team from 1950. On page 2, you'll find Lynn Hamilton's name in column 4 about mid-way down the page.
 

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Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
Lynn Hamilton - I've seen old Central Vocational yearbooks with that spelling in the public library in downtown Cincinnati.
Also, attached are the Ohio All-Star Team from 1950. On page 2, you'll find Lynn Hamilton's name in column 4 about mid-way down the page.
Excellent.

I'm still amazed at how such a short name could produce 3 different spellings by 3 different sources (Enquirer, Mansfield New-Journal, and whichever media source produced the results that were posted to the OHSAA's website).
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
Here they are, the 1949 Cross Country State Champions with the spelling of the names as they appeared in the 1950 Central high school yearbook.
Can it be possible they only scored four back then, OHSAA web site shows their point total as 48 with these places:

5th - Reginold Victor
9th - Lin Hamilton
16th - Herman Rose
18th - Cleophus Kelly
5+9+16+18 = 48
 

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Seek Up

Active member
Here they are, the 1949 Cross Country State Champions with the spelling of the names as they appeared in the 1950 Central high school yearbook.
Can it be possible they only scored four back then, OHSAA web site shows their point total as 48 with these places:

5th - Reginold Victor
9th - Lin Hamilton
16th - Herman Rose
18th - Cleophus Kelly
5+9+16+18 = 48
No - it is merely a coincidence they total 48. Those are their overall places. I can give you team places later this evening. Don't quote me, but I think the first 4 totaled 26, and Central's 5th man would have scored 22 points.
 

JAVMAN83

Active member
This thread keeps getting more interesting:

Mansfield Journal News shows different score totals than those by OHSAA. FYI - I take everything OHSAA says on their website with a grain of salt regarding historical results - especially before 1950. Even in the past 30 years, I find occasional errors, but especially before 1950.

So, the Mansfield Journal News shows Central Vocational winning with 53 points. I also found that in the Middletown Journal News.
 

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Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
No - it is merely a coincidence they total 48. Those are their overall places. I can give you team places later this evening. Don't quote me, but I think the first 4 totaled 26, and Central's 5th man would have scored 22 points.
I have reason to believe the results posted on the OHSAA's website for 1949 were the original results, and they were incorrect because the Marion paper stated that Marion Harding "finished 9th instead of the 10th place, previously reported." The OHSAA results had them 10th with 251 pts, but the results in the newspaper had them 9th with 280 pts.

Also, which other Cincinnati team competed? The OHSAA website and Enquirer claim Western Hills, but the results in the Mansfield and Marion newspapers claim Walnut Hills. Without bothering to look for sectional/district meet results, I'd side with the Enquirer on that detail as I would with any other paper whose interest in getting such a particular detail correct is the greatest. All papers seem to agree that Central scored 53 pts. in the 2nd iteration of the results.

On to Central's scorers: I have their top 4 totaling 30 pts. in the team competition. In the team scoring, those top 4 appear to be: Victor 2nd, Hamilton 5th, Rose 11th, and Kelley 12th. The OHSAA website says the 3rd place individual was from Marion Harding, but he was from Warren Harding and not a team scorer.

Incidentally, the 2nd and 4th place individuals were twins from College Corner which has a unique arrangement in that the school building is situated at the north end of the village directly on the Ohio-Indiana state line. Quite literally, 1/2 of the school building is in Indiana, and the other 1/2 is in Ohio. Municipalities cannot cross state lines by law, but what about school districts? Well, in this case, the Ohio side of the village is currently part of the school district which is based in Indiana and operated jointly.
 
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Seek Up

Active member
I have reason to believe the results posted on the OHSAA's website for 1949 were the original results, and they were incorrect because the Marion paper stated that Marion Harding "finished 9th instead of the 10th place, previously reported." The OHSAA results had them 10th with 251 pts, but the results in the newspaper had them 9th with 280 pts.

Also, which other Cincinnati team competed? The OHSAA website and Enquirer claim Western Hills, but the results in the Mansfield and Marion newspapers claim Walnut Hills. Without bothering to look for sectional/district meet results, I'd side with the Enquirer on that detail. All papers seem to agree that Central scored 53 pts.

On to Central's scorers: I have their top 4 totaling 30 pts. in the team competition. In the team scoring, those top 4 appear to be: Victor 2nd, Hamilton 5th, Rose 11th, and Kelley 12th. The OHSAA website says the 3rd place individual was from Marion Harding, but he was from Warren Harding and not a team scorer.

Incidentally, the 2nd and 4th place individuals were twins from College Corner which has a unique arrangement in that the school building is situated at the north end of the village directly on the Ohio-Indiana state line. While municipalities cannot cross state lines (the Indiana side of the village is West College Corner), the Ohio side of the village is currently part of the school district which is based in Indiana and operated jointly.
Thanks for the response. I will see what I have in my archives. It's a shame the OHSAA cannot have full and accurate results similar to Indiana or Illinois.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
Thanks for the response. I will see what I have in my archives. It's a shame the OHSAA cannot have full and accurate results similar to Indiana or Illinois.
My question would be are the results shown by the OHSAA on their website their own original documents, or are they things that others have compiled from various sources?
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
On to Central's scorers: I have their top 4 totaling 30 pts. in the team competition. In the team scoring, those top 4 appear to be: Victor 2nd, Hamilton 5th, Rose 11th, and Kelley 12th. The OHSAA website says the 3rd place individual was from Marion Harding, but he was from Warren Harding and not a team scorer.
If the Mansfield newspaper is correct in saying all five scorers finished in the top 19 in the team scoring,, that would make Central's team total listed as 53 in newspapers as incorrect. OHSAA's would be correct only if Central's fifth man was 18th, if 19th they would total 49. The intrigue continues. Btw, Mansfield newspaper doesn't show who finished 19th overall.
 
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