State Finals

Pundit

New member
“Do they still require a fitness test”

OHSAA Has never required a fitness test for any sport.
Hammer...I remember having to pass a fitness test for the USSF Grade 6 and I could've sworn that I had to pass a fitness test for HS back then. I may be wrong as it has been about 30 years since I officiated my first HS game.

As for the referee ratings process, the system is flawed and needs to be fixed. Here are some changes that need to happen immediately: 1. Force all HS Coaches to rate the referees and hold the ones that don't accountable. The Athletic Directors should not be the ones evaluating the referees without the soccer coach signing off on it. 2. Before a referee can be added to the tournament pool, they have to be assessed at least 2 times officiating high level regular season games. The process would need to repeat in order to officiate district finals and regional games and then again to officiate final four games. 3. Differentiate between the CR and the ARs on myOHSAA. Unless the coach asks ahead of time or asks their AD, there's nothing on the website to differentiate between the three referees. 4. Add more criteria to the referee rating system instead of the general 1-5 scale: Rating criteria is: 1-Unsatisfactory, 2-Below Average, 3-Average, 4-Above Average, 5-Excellent. Add criteria such as: Fitness/Ability to keep up with the run of play, Ability to control the game and keep the players safe, Called the game fair and even handed, etc. Here's an example of what I would like to see: College Referee Rating System FYI: Here's a link to how OHSAA chooses referees for tournament games: OHSAA Referee Selection Process In comparison, here's how USSF chooses referees for higher and lower level games in the Dayton area: Dayton USSF Referee Assignments & Ratings I know that in order for me to get the Grade 6, I had to officiate a minimum number of centers at a high level (U-15 and above) and I had to do ARs on college games. Also, I remember having Juergen Mudrow and other assessors come out to evaluate me as both a CR and as an AR. It was through their feedback that I really grew as a referee. The HS system is too convoluted and parts of it look like a good old boy's club to me. It needs to be simplified and there needs to be a greater emphasis on experience (# of high level games completed where coaches gave the referees a score of 4/5 or 80% and above), coach ratings, and assessor ratings. This would definitely narrow the pool of referees for regionals and state and would help to ensure they were the most experienced and highest rated.
 
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hammer89

Well-known member
Hammer...I remember having to pass a fitness test for the USSF Grade 6 and I could've sworn that I had to pass a fitness test for HS back then. I may be wrong as it has been about 30 years since I officiated my first HS game.

As for the referee ratings process, the system is flawed and needs to be fixed. Here are some changes that need to happen immediately: 1. Force all HS Coaches to rate the referees and hold the ones that don't accountable. The Athletic Directors should not be the ones evaluating the referees without the soccer coach signing off on it. 2. Before a referee can be added to the tournament pool, they have to be assessed at least 2 times officiating high level regular season games. The process would need to repeat in order to officiate district finals and regional games and then again to officiate final four games. 3. Differentiate between the CR and the ARs on myOHSAA. Unless the coach asks ahead of time or asks their AD, there's nothing on the website to differentiate between the three referees. 4. Add more criteria to the referee rating system instead of the general 1-5 scale: Rating criteria is: 1-Unsatisfactory, 2-Below Average, 3-Average, 4-Above Average, 5-Excellent. Add criteria such as: Fitness/Ability to keep up with the run of play, Ability to control the game and keep the players safe, Called the game fair and even handed, etc. Here's an example of what I would like to see: http://nysoccerbureau.com/college2/refrate2-081616B.html
FYI: Here's a link to how OHSAA chooses referees for tournament games:
https://www.ohsaa.org/Portals/0/Off...ion_Process.pdf/Revised_Selection_Process.pdf
In comparison, here's how USSF chooses referees for higher and lower level games in the Dayton area: http://www.dasoa.org/assignment-ratings.html I know that in order for me to get the Grade 6, I had to officiate a minimum number of centers at a high level (U-15 and above) and I had to do ARs on college games. Also, I remember having Juergen Mudrow and other assessors come out to evaluate me as both a CR and as an AR. It was through their feedback that I really grew as a referee. The HS system is too convoluted and parts of it look like a good old boy's club to me. It needs to be simplified and there needs to be a greater emphasis on experience (# of high level games completed where coaches gave the referees a score of 4/5 or 80% and above), coach ratings, and assessor ratings.
Unfortunately there’s just not enough bodies for that. 1 already happens. Coaches have to rate. If they don’t, they’re fined. 2, their are not enough assessors across the entire state to do that. 3 is feasible, but there are still some parts of the state that do 2 man for varsity. I think 4 is also feasible.

good ideas!
 

Pundit

New member
Unfortunately there’s just not enough bodies for that. 1 already happens. Coaches have to rate. If they don’t, they’re fined. 2, their are not enough assessors across the entire state to do that. 3 is feasible, but there are still some parts of the state that do 2 man for varsity. I think 4 is also feasible.

good ideas!
Hammer...Our Boy's HS Coach didn't rate one official this fall so, our AD rated every official for him in less than five minutes and gave them all an average score so that he wouldn't be fined. As for not enough referee assessors, let's take all of the referees that can't keep up with play anymore and train them to become paid assessors. That way we kill two birds with stone. ;)
 

hammer89

Well-known member
Hammer...Our Boy's HS Coach didn't rate one official this fall so, our AD rated every official for him in less than five minutes and gave them all an average score so that he wouldn't be fined. As for not enough referee assessors, let's take all of the referees that can't keep up with play anymore and train them to become paid assessors. That way we kill two birds with stone. ;)
There’s unfortunately no way to legislate against the people whom willfully scam the system like that.

and that’s the reason we don’t have enough assessors…if you have two working eyes and are alive, you’re reffing!
 

Pundit

New member
Gillogy should have been good on paper, but it was just not good. They do not hold these ref's to enough of a standard. Anyone who watches that game with a shred of knowledge will tell you that there were major issues. From mechanics to control of the game and so much more in-between. There may not a good ol boy network with assignment for this, but there is with accountability. During any assessment I have been given direct feedback on my actions, both after the half and after the game with the good and the bad. This should happen with the 4th in all these games. This is a group of fist bumping, a** slapping, "great work" buddy boy's (and girl's). You have a job to do, and so do the AR's. Freaking do it. So many missed hard dangerous fouls from behind and literally directly Infront of the entire crew. I get it in a U11 local league with a just learning the game crew. But not in this situation. These games mean somthing to all the players, the coaches and many of the families. The 4th got dressed down by the head coach and nothing. It's no wonder the players were so disrespectful. The forward for Copley literally punched the CB for Waynesville in the mouth, drew blood and caused the Waynesville CB to leave the game it happened 5 yards in front of Gillogy. She called the foul, and eventually carded her but not for the punch it was for dissent on the called foul. The punch should have been a serious misconduct and a subsequent red card. After her yellow she had another reckless foul, that simply imposed a frown and a finger. It was happening all game. Vanishing spray and an ACME Tornado don't make you a good ref. Controlling the game and protecting the players through the laws does. I will say she made a great call not calling a shoulder charge from Copley to win the ball, that most ref's likely would have since it sent the Waynesville girl flying on her back, but then totally allowed the same player to intentionally trip a defender from behind to create space. I'm not the sanctioning body but they need to do better than this. And you can't have AR's that can't even begin to keep up with the pace of play. Ref's make mistakes all the time. Look at the NCAA and NFL that have had to come out and say "yeah the refs got it wrong" It's ok. I make mistakes too, but I own that. But not this many and nothing as egregious as these were. And we should never act as though the referees are above warranted criticism.
5x26....I agree with you 100% on your assessment of the CR and ARs. I am very familiar with two of the referees on the Division II Final and have rated the CR and the older AR average at best. I would really like to know which coaches rated them higher than average and how they ended up officiating a state final. There's no way they should've ever been assigned to a state final. The fact that they were assigned to a state final shows that the OHSAA referee rating system is fundamentally flawed. With that being said, I decided to go back and watch the Div. II final a second time in order to be fair to the referees and give them a second chance. I will admit that the CR and ARs started the game out well (first 10-12 minutes) but, after that you can see that the CR begins to lose control of the game and her mechanics disappear (most of the game the CR is running in a straight line up and down the field instead of being on an angle to the run of play which would've allowed her to see more of the fouls). Where you see things really break down is in the second half. In the first 20 seconds of the second half, the CR and the AR both missed a deliberate hand ball in the box (defender stopped the ball from being crossed) which should've resulted in Waynesville PK. The CR's angle to the play was non existent and I have no clue how the AR missed the lower arm/hand knock the ball down and out of bounds for a CK. You know you're doing a poor job as a CR/AR when the announcers who complimented you in the first ten minutes of the game spend the entire second half of the game criticizing you for missing fouls and losing control of the game.
 
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cincysports4

Well-known member
Most of the quality southwest referees all say it’s the good ole boys network for the folks in the state finals. If your friends with Don M you get assignments.
 

hammer89

Well-known member
Most of the quality southwest referees all say it’s the good ole boys network for the folks in the state finals. If your friends with Don M you get assignments.
That is incorrect. Don assigns purely based on who has the highest totals in the playoff voting system. Can critique the system that allows these officials to be the highest scorers, but Don is as unbiased as it comes with who he picks.
 

cincysports4

Well-known member
That is incorrect. Don assigns purely based on who has the highest totals in the playoff voting system. Can critique the system that allows these officials to be the highest scorers, but Don is as unbiased as it comes with who he picks.
And who oversees this process... Don does...
 

hammer89

Well-known member
And who oversees this process... Don does...
No, Don has no involvement with the rating and voting process. That’s overseen entirely by the OHSAA office staff and Beau Rugg, for all sports.

if you’d like fact checked on anything else, please let me know. Happy to help.
 

coachg

Active member
Asking coaches to rate a referee is like asking a wolf to guard the hen house IMHO. They are busy watching their teams to pay much attention to if a referee is doing a good job unless the referee blows the whistle then is about the only time a coach pays attention to them. . Many coaches have never refereed nor know the proper hand signals or how a referee should move up and down the field but yet we expect coaches to rate a referee. I bet winning coaches rate high and losing coaches rate low. Anyone want to bet? LOL The system has been broken for years. Get rid of HS Bridge program and use USSF Referees. HS needs to conform to the same laws / rules used by club soccer. I agree about the 4th official being an assignor but that would require a 4th official being present for regular season games and I cant see the schools agreeing to pay more plus we are already short referee as it is.

5x26 - I loved it when you refereed my games. I may not agree with your call but I knew I didn't have the angle either to argue much. :)
 

shoprat2

Active member
You have schools that can’t or won’t pay for three and now you want them to use four? Many coaches don’t bother doing ratings because they feel it makes no difference. Several of my ref friends don’t like the ratings calling them a popularity contest because coaches don’t understand the refs job. My favorite coach would blackball a limited number every year until he decided the replacements were often worse than the ones he blackballed. I guess my point is that coaches will never be happy with all the officials.
 
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