Solution to the Mid-State League Problems

There are no right solutions to this question. The buckeye is not willing to break up, BV complains about driving (they asked to join) anywhere outside 270, and school size separation from the cardinal to other two divisions. But I think there are things to consider. BC will be 3 and won't do what TV did by waiting way to long to get out. LU will be D6 (more than likely) after OHSAA counts. Then you have teams like GH that need to move out of the Ohio and no one wants HP. So I think you go with a large, middle, small no matter demographics, then add compatible competition if needed. For example.
Ohio
BV, Whitehall, BC, HT, Bexley, FU, circleville, LE
Buckeye
Amanda, HP, Kipp, BR, CA, WC, LU, add west muskingum
Cardinal
BU, FC, GCC, GH, Rosecrans, Miller, millersport, FCA
West Muskingum would be a good fit and they would complete 24 teams MSL. No crossovers or open dates. Only 1 add rather than 2,3,4 I keep seeing in this thread. The MSL is not in shambles just needs a little repaired. You can't honestly expect the MSL to fall and for 23 teams to try in joining other established leagues...
No way does Buckeye Valley travel to most of those schools. It could take forever getting to the southern schools. Heck, I don’t think you’d get Whitehall to go to Circleville, LE and Fairfield Union.
 
There are no right solutions to this question. The buckeye is not willing to break up, BV complains about driving (they asked to join) anywhere outside 270, and school size separation from the cardinal to other two divisions. But I think there are things to consider. BC will be 3 and won't do what TV did by waiting way to long to get out. LU will be D6 (more than likely) after OHSAA counts. Then you have teams like GH that need to move out of the Ohio and no one wants HP. So I think you go with a large, middle, small no matter demographics, then add compatible competition if needed. For example.
Ohio
BV, Whitehall, BC, HT, Bexley, FU, circleville, LE
Buckeye
Amanda, HP, Kipp, BR, CA, WC, LU, add west muskingum
Cardinal
BU, FC, GCC, GH, Rosecrans, Miller, millersport, FCA
West Muskingum would be a good fit and they would complete 24 teams MSL. No crossovers or open dates. Only 1 add rather than 2,3,4 I keep seeing in this thread. The MSL is not in shambles just needs a little repaired. You can't honestly expect the MSL to fall and for 23 teams to try in joining other established leagues...
I speak from no perspective but an Alumni with family still involved in sports at A-C, but that would be a horrible setup for the Aces. Multiple trips inside/around the outerbelt, mostly with schools they have little/no history with or commonality to. More importantly, they lose their four key rivals (LE, BC, FU, CV). Ok, some might view LU as a big rival (I don't), but even so they would be driving through rival school districts to trek to Columbus constantly. I doubt the schools I mention are interested in trading A-C for BV, Bexley, or Whitehall either. No way that would fly long term.
 
The MSL is not in shambles just needs a little repaired. You can't honestly expect the MSL to fall and for 23 teams to try in joining other established leagues...
One division is an absolute mess. A second division has a financially crippled public school being told, despite their divisional brothers-in-arms all voting against it, that they’re going to be putting 600 miles a year onto the bus (4 x 150) to play The Wellington School in hoops & diamond sports as an extra league game starting in ‘23.
 
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I speak from no perspective but an Alumni with family still involved in sports at A-C, but that would be a horrible setup for the Aces. Multiple trips inside/around the outerbelt, mostly with schools they have little/no history with or commonality to. More importantly, they lose their four key rivals (LE, BC, FU, CV). Ok, some might view LU as a big rival (I don't), but even so they would be driving through rival school districts to trek to Columbus constantly. I doubt the schools I mention are interested in trading A-C for BV, Bexley, or Whitehall either. No way that would fly long term.
Buckeye/Ohio cross-blend as a future realignment isn’t going to happen anyways.
 
I’m “in the loop.” There is a range of 1-5 MSL schools that conceivably could announce their departures.

One is almost certain to leave. There are two that, put together, could go either way on staying or going. There’s a fourth who may see leaving as a greener pasture compared to staying, because there’s uncertainty and unease about what staying could mean down the road. (To an extent, that fourth’s schools ability and willingness to leave is dependent on what happens with the #2 and #3 schools and what the realignment window could muster up if it came to it — if it’s still open by then.) The fifth school might be a long shot to leave but makes tons of sense playing somewhere else.

Individually, any of the above schools leaving aren’t ”huge blows” to the MSL — the league would move on and roll with it, although there’s a couple in that group of five where departing might be an emotional gut-punch to the O.G. MSL schools due to the speculated’s tenure within the MSL purview over a decent amount of time. Collectively, 3+ schools leaving (depending on the combination, but read closer to my second paragraph to get a hint) could mean a lynchpin is pulled… at which point realignment would be necessary. If 3(+) leave, even with or without realignment I suspect it’s going to trickle down in a way where more schools will leave in the coming years.
 
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MSL commissioner Jim Hayes said his league has started discussing its plans, but it’s possible nothing changes.

“I don’t see a team moving from another division,” Hayes said.“We can survive with seven. We can get by with six. But if you get less than six, it creates some challenges.”
here’s a clue, by the way.
 
I heard Bexley, Whitehall and Grandview coming to LCL. Could be crazy, just what I heard.
[The seal is now broken.]

The LCL has not extended invitations to any schools, yet. That said, Whitehall is a school that makes sense for the LCL-Buckeye and it has been intimated in circles that they are looking to leave the MSL-Ohio.

Bexley is another school that may be a candidate for invitation.

Grandview actually wasn’t one of the five schools I was alluding to in post #96. However, that doesn’t mean the LCL isn’t interested. (I was instead thinking of a different Ohio school.)
 
If this is be true, you might as well change the name of the LCL to the Tri County League. Almost like keeping the Big Ten name for historical purposes only. Much rather would see the LCL absorb Liberty Union or Columbus Academy than Grandview Heights.
 
If this is be true, you might as well change the name of the LCL to the Tri County League. Almost like keeping the Big Ten name for historical purposes only. Much rather would see the LCL absorb Liberty Union or Columbus Academy than Grandview Heights.
Don’t underestimate the possibility of five counties being represented in a future LCL.
 
look north, brother!
Knox? Mount Vernon? No way Buckeye Valley would get in. A 1:30 drive to Zanesville on a Wednesday night for a JV Baseball game isnt worth that. Mount Vernon is an hour away. What other schools to the North would be interested?
Delaware would also be a 1:30 trip. Not many choices I can think of unless they want to try and grab Centerburg, Danville or Fredericktown?
 
Knox? Mount Vernon? No way Buckeye Valley would get in. A 1:30 drive to Zanesville on a Wednesday night for a JV Baseball game isnt worth that. Mount Vernon is an hour away. What other schools to the North would be interested?
Delaware would also be a 1:30 trip. Not many choices I can think of unless they want to try and grab Centerburg, Danville or Fredericktown?
Mt Vernon for sure is wanted by LCL schools.
 
Prior to the LCL reforming, when Granville and Licking Valley were members of the MSL, they were not especially happy with Bexley and Whitehall. They did not like making trips to those schools, and when those schools played in Licking County, they didn't bring many fans. Times have changed so who knows now. I've always thought that Mt Vernon would be a good addition to the LCL. I would like to see Liberty Union and Columbus Academy join the LCL Cardinal and Bexley, Whitehall, and Mt Vernon join the LCL Buckeye. The LCL would then have 2 8 team divisions.
 
I’m “in the loop.” There is a range of 1-5 MSL schools that conceivably could announce their departures.

One is almost certain to leave. There are two that, put together, could go either way on staying or going. There’s a fourth who may see leaving as a greener pasture compared to staying, because there’s uncertainty and unease about what staying could mean down the road. (To an extent, that fourth’s schools ability and willingness to leave is dependent on what happens with the #2 and #3 schools and what the realignment window could muster up if it came to it — if it’s still open by then.) The fifth school might be a long shot to leave but makes tons of sense playing somewhere else.
Prior to the LCL reforming, when Granville and Licking Valley were members of the MSL, they were not especially happy with Bexley and Whitehall. They did not like making trips to those schools, and when those schools played in Licking County, they didn't bring many fans. Times have changed so who knows now. I've always thought that Mt Vernon would be a good addition to the LCL. I would like to see Liberty Union and Columbus Academy join the LCL Cardinal and Bexley, Whitehall, and Mt Vernon join the LCL Buckeye. The LCL would then have 2 8 team divisions.
So now we’ve correctly identified MSL schools #1, #2, #3 and #5 in the “if Mt Vernon comes aboard” scenario.
 
Guess one of the big questions is to find out what even gets done (and how) in the event of an Academy, Bexley and Whitehall move. Deadline to formalize a realignment is the May meeting; procedurally speaking, it needs to be on the table to be discussed by the March meeting.

If those 3 leave, what happens? Just pull schools out of the Cardinal? Or super-merge the Cardinal and Ohio Divisions, and let schools subtract themselves out?
 
If all of this craziness happens, would it now make any sense for Newark to try and get in on the action?

Newark (D1)
Watkins (D2)
Heights (D2)
Mt Vernon (D2)
Zanesville (D3)
Granville (D3)
Whitehall (D2)
Valley (D4)

Bexley (D4)
Heath (D4)
Lakewood (D4)
Johnstown (D5)
Utica (D5)
Cols. Academy/Liberty Union (D5)
Grandview Heights (D6)
Northridge (D6)
Newark Catholic (D7)

Something like these two alignments doesn't look too bad to me. Even though they would totally dominate basketball.
 
If all of this craziness happens, would it now make any sense for Newark to try and get in on the action?

Newark (D1)
Watkins (D2)
Heights (D2)
Mt Vernon (D2)
Zanesville (D3)
Granville (D3)
Whitehall (D2)
Valley (D4)

Bexley (D4)
Heath (D4)
Lakewood (D4)
Johnstown (D5)
Utica (D5)
Cols. Academy/Liberty Union (D5)
Grandview Heights (D6)
Northridge (D6)
Newark Catholic (D7)

Something like these two alignments doesn't look too bad to me. Even though they would totally dominate basketball.
There isn't a push to bring on Newark, and unless something has recently changed they aren't interested.

There also isn't a desire to expand to 17. Nor would they go to 17 just to add Newark.

What Valley wants to do will have some effect on where they want to proceed, I suspect. Stay in the big, or go to the small?

Grandview is not likely a candidate for LCL expansion, either. Even if they were asked by the LCL if they were interested in talking (don't know if they were or weren't), I can't see them making the jump to the LCL. Their future is best served playing in an MSL that endures the fallout of other Ohio schools leaving.
 
Overall, I think Newark enjoys the stability of the OCC. Somthing they haven't had since thier COL days. You know the baskeball coaches don't want to move.
 
Overall, I think Newark enjoys the stability of the OCC. Somthing they haven't had since thier COL days. You know the baskeball coaches don't want to move.
It died on the vine when a particular school pulled out of the Big Walnut + Mt. Vernon + Newark + Tri-Valley + Zanesville expansion plan at the 11th hour ~6 years ago. Those five + Granville, Licking Heights and Watkins would’ve been the LCL-Big.

There is absolutely not a situation where Newark is going to be in the same divisional set-up with Lakewood or Valley, no matter how bad Newark would ever want it to happen.
 
Nothing will happen. The Buckeye will not split because of long lasting rivals or at least what seems like rivals.
More to the MSL and the broader league picture than anything specifically involving the Buckeye.
 
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Very curious!
…and, there’s no news worth reporting to post. If schools don’t candidly indicate that they have options that they want to explore, if they have them, then nothing significant happens.

Basically the window to realign some part(s) of the MSL has closed until December ‘23, unless something unexpected happens (if something was discussed in a breakout room?)
 
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Well that’s anticlimactic.
Main thing is whisper networks are pretty useful for time-sensitive matters, because you can plan ahead. But unless there’s the action to match what’s being speculated, OR unless schools want to be candid then nothing gets done.

Bear in mind there’s still a couple, plausible “leaving the MSL” situations still in play. It’s just that two of the more obvious ones are factored out, now.
 
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The Ohio — Buckeye dynamic has been weird for years because the Ohio wanted realignment based on enrollment (the Buckeye does NOT want that. It’s been voted on before and shot down.)


The Cardinal was the Bird That Did Nothing Wrong. Cardinal was generally inclined to be team players for the Buckeye and would be fine with whatever the Ohio generally wanted. But then the covenant got broken when Wellington got rammed through this December.

Cardinal went to bat for the Buckeye for years. Nixed Logan because the Buckeye didn’t want them. Nixed enrollment based alignment because the Buckeye didn’t want them. Schools like BU, FC, and yes even MP (over generations) saw themselves for years as being good neighbors to the Buckeye and that they respected what the Buckeye valued. Same applies to FCA, GCC, Rosecrans in that camp in the 10’s.
 
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