Should the new upcoming "Big 12" still be a "power 5" conference?

Cali_Eagle

Cali_Eagle

Active member
I haven't seen this discussed anywhere or heard any of TV's talking heads on pre-game shows discuss it either. Question: Should the new "Big 12" still be considered a "power 5" conference after Texas and Oklahoma leave? After all you have a LOT of schools in that conference that haven't done very much in college football in years, remaining and there are going to be few schools coming in (maybe BYU) that qualify as national powers.

I was wondering what anyone / everyone else thinks about this or if it has even been considered by anyone at all besides myself. So, any comments or thoughts out there?
 
 
Cali_Eagle said:
I haven't seen this discussed anywhere or heard any of TV's talking heads on pre-game shows discuss it either. Question: Should the new "Big 12" still be considered a "power 5" conference after Texas and Oklahoma leave? After all you have a LOT of schools in that conference that haven't done very much in college football in years, remaining and there are going to be few schools coming in (maybe BYU) that qualify as national powers.

I was wondering what anyone / everyone else thinks about this or if it has even been considered by anyone at all besides myself. So, any comments or thoughts out there?
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It’s all about the money they can generate. Obviously, some schools will fill the void left by Texas and Oklahoma in wins and losses, but by brand power for media and merchandise money? Doubtful. If, however, the new Big 12 can generate enough money in relation to the other power conferences and stay significantly ahead of the G5 leagues, the answer will be yes to remaining a Power 5.
 
Eh, people are buying Gonzaga shirts. I suppose it could happen in football. It there a potential equivalent in football? I dont think they're buying Cinci shirts yet in Lubbock and Desmoines.
 
I’ve talked about it on here. I think it will turn into a Power Four with the Big 12 left out in the cold. There are no premier football programs remaining in the conference. Oklahoma State is probably the closest thing.

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Crusaders said:
It’s better than the Big East was when it held a BCS bowl so yeah
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As a whole, agreed. But there’s no denying Miami and VT were able to carry water at the top of the Big East at various times in ways that anyone in the New Big 12 could struggle to replicate.

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Crusaders said:
It’s better than the Big East was when it held a BCS bowl so yeah
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Yes, but times have changed and the power programs are trying to consolidate more than ever before and leave the rest in their wake. So it’s not a gimme the Big 12 will retain its status.
 
cjb5656 said:
Yes, but times have changed and the power programs are trying to consolidate more than ever before and leave the rest in their wake. So it’s not a gimme the Big 12 will retain its status.
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I think it will be a shock if it does retain Power status. Blueblood programs aren’t going to be keen on the Big Eight’s and Southwest Conference’s leftover programs being treated equally to them.

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AEW Champion said:
I think it will be a shock if it does retain Power status. Blueblood programs aren’t going to be keen on the Big Eight’s and Southwest Conference’s leftover programs being treated equally to them.

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Seriously, who will hold up the top end of the league? If I were OK State I would be begging the B1G or SEC to include me in an expansion. Same with WVU and the ACC.
 
And Fickell must think, or know, Ryan Day has NFL plans fairly soon and he’s waiting it out at UC.
 
cjb5656 said:
And Fickell must think, or know, Ryan Day has NFL plans fairly soon and he’s waiting it out at UC.
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I think he’s waiting for any of the major Midwest schools to open: Ohio State, Notre Dame, Michigan or Penn State. But if the writing is on the wall in a couple of years that the Big 12 won’t be a power conference, he’ll have to widen his net to include SEC and ACC openings at that point.

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AEW Champion said:
I think he’s waiting for any of the major Midwest schools to open: Ohio State, Notre Dame, Michigan or Penn State. But if the writing is on the wall in a couple of years that the Big 12 won’t be a power conference, he’ll have to widen his net to include SEC and ACC openings at that point.

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Yes, ND or Michigan could be open before OSU.
 
AEW Champion said:
As a whole, agreed. But there’s no denying Miami and VT were able to carry water at the top of the Big East at various times in ways that anyone in the New Big 12 could struggle to replicate.

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Even after BC, VT and Miami left it remained a BCS conference till it dissolved.

The conference today would have a team currently in the playoff, two teams in contention for the playoff, 3 in the top 10, 4 in the top 15, and 5 ranked total. That’s better than the PAC 12 and ACC.

How is this even a debate?
 
......look at all the hand wringing over Cincinnati getting a seat back at the table again. You fellas can refer to the New BIG12 as P5, or P4, or Pee Wee Herman for all we care. All's UC fans know is we go from 7 million dollars a year in TV money to about 25 million dollars a year in TV money. We beat the so called big boys arse now, imagine what we'll do with the extra revenue. I can understand why some folks are gettin' worried.
 
JUSTGOPLAY said:
......look at all the hand wringing over Cincinnati getting a seat back at the table again. You fellas can refer to the New BIG12 as P5, or P4, or Pee Wee Herman for all we care. All's UC fans know is we go from 7 million dollars a year in TV money to about 25 million dollars a year in TV money. We beat the so called big boys arse now, imagine what we'll do with the extra revenue. I can understand why some folks are gettin' worried.
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You better not lose one of these last two games, or you'll be ranked south of number 20.
 
Competitively the new group will be stronger. No one team replaces Oklahoma but take the better of the 3 AAC teams any given year the last decade and they’d have a winning record against Oklahoma. And any of the new 4 is easily an improvement over Texas.
Name brand is the only loss and unfortunately college football is a popularity contest so this is where they take a big hit. They attempt to recover from losing their largest brands by bringing in larger markets. Tons of growth potential for the AAC teams especially.
 
Saint Columban said:
No one team replaces Oklahoma but take the better of the 3 AAC teams any given year the last decade and they’d have a winning record against Oklahoma. And any of the new 4 is easily an improvement over Texas.
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The first statement is unequivocally false. 2017 UCF and maybe this year’s Cincinnati team would be the only ones with a chance to hang with Oklahoma, even considering OU’s (relative to themselves) lesser years in the first half of the 2010s when Stoops got lazy with recruiting.

None of the four is a long-term improvement over Texas. You’re lying to yourself if you think otherwise. Any college football fan over the age of 10 knows this.

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AEW Champion said:
As a whole, agreed. But there’s no denying Miami and VT were able to carry water at the top of the Big East at various times in ways that anyone in the New Big 12 could struggle to replicate.

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Miami and VT left for the ACC in the middle of the BCS era. Teams like Louisville, Cincinnati, UConn and West Virginia made BCS bowls as members of the Big East once the new conference was put together.
 
JUSTGOPLAY said:
......look at all the hand wringing over Cincinnati getting a seat back at the table again. You fellas can refer to the New BIG12 as P5, or P4, or Pee Wee Herman for all we care. All's UC fans know is we go from 7 million dollars a year in TV money to about 25 million dollars a year in TV money. We beat the so called big boys arse now, imagine what we'll do with the extra revenue. I can understand why some folks are gettin' worried.
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Pipe down, Napoleon — your little-man complex is oozing through the screen like gravy spilling down a mountain of mashed potatoes.

Everyone sees UC for what they are: This year’s en vogue little guy who inevitably falters after a year or two and becomes totally irrelevant again. It happened with Boise State about a decade ago. It happened with TCU around the same time. It happened with UCF a few years ago. All those programs are complete afterthoughts now.

Plus almost no one outside the Great Plains watches or cares about Big 12 football in the first place, with the exceptions of Oklahoma and Texas.

College football can’t afford to turn an expanded playoff into a farce with charity bids for conferences. As Crusaders pointed out earlier in the thread, the Big East had undeserving BCS bowl entrants, most specifically that one UConn team in 2010 who were so mediocre and irrelevant that Randy Edsall bolted for Maryland — Maryland! — because it was an upgrade. I am in favor of no auto bids for any conference; that way fraudulent “champions” that conferences like the New Big 12 are likely to produce from time to time are not gifted undeserving playoff opportunities over better teams. This year’s ACC is a perfect example: They barely have anyone who would qualify for Top 12 consideration.

The bandwagon UC fanbase is doing a lot of chest-beating for a program with little history of success. It is a stepping-stone program, nothing more, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Lest we forget it was just a few years ago that Tommy Tuberville was coaching a horrific UC team in front of a mostly empty Nippert Stadium, with zero local attention. UC football will be back to having no pride so fast it’ll make your head spin.

All that remains is seeing which of these upcoming games is Waterloo for you.

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Saint Columban said:
Cincinnati’s worst team of the last 20 years hung with one of Oklahoma’s best. So your rebuttal is unequivocally false.
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Who won the game? Exactly.

And that 2010 OU team was the beginning of OU’s lesser teams as I pointed out, yet UC had the game in their own backyard and still lost. OU lost multiple games that year — to A&M and Missouri. The Landry Jones era was about as low as you’ll find for OU, and UC was in golden position compared to their usual mediocrity thanks to Brian Kelly handing off a healthy program to Beeyotch Jones.

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AEW Champion said:
Who won the game? Exactly.

And that 2010 OU team was the beginning of OU’s lesser teams as I pointed out, yet UC had the game in their own backyard and still lost. OU lost multiple games that year — to A&M and Missouri. The Landry Jones era was about as low as you’ll find for OU, and UC was in golden position compared to their usual mediocrity thanks to Brian Kelly handing off a healthy program to Beeyotch Jones.

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Trying so hard to save face after being proven wrong lol
 
Saint Columban said:
Trying so hard to save face after being proven wrong lol
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You claimed these middlin’ AAC teams would stack up a winning record against Oklahoma in the past decade and are trying to use an OU win over UC from 11 years ago to back up your claim. You’re the one proven wrong, not me.

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AEW Champion said:
You claimed these middlin’ AAC teams would stack up a winning record against Oklahoma in the past decade and are trying to use an OU win over UC from 11 years ago to back up your claim. You’re the one proven wrong, not me.

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There’s no way to prove or disprove my comment. You can look at final rankings and form your own opinion.
Your comment that only 2 “could hang” with Oklahoma was completely blown out of the water.
 
Another factor to consider is that once Oklahoma and Texas leave the Big 12, almost all the Big 12 titles in the history of the conference go with them. Here are the Big 12 titles among the discarded leftovers who will remain in the conference:

Baylor: 1.5 - 2013, split with TCU in 2014
K-State: 1.5 - 2003, split with OU in 2012
Oklahoma State: 1 - 2011
TCU: 0.5 - split with Baylor in 2014
West Va: 0
Kansas: 0
Texas Tech: 0
Iowa State: 0

So that’s 4.5 combined titles for a conference that has existed for 25 years. So it would be fair to argue that whoever wins New Big 12 titles in the future simply wouldn’t have been the champion except for better programs like OU, Texas, Texas A&M and Nebraska leaving the conference abandoned like an old, dilapidated apartment complex owned by an out-of-town slumlord.

This reasoning should be used if auto bids are going to be granted to certain conferences in a new playoff format. This is not a power conference.

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New B12 playoff rankings top 25

SEC -6 Ga, Ala, Miss, Tex A&M, Ark, Okla
B12 -5 Cincy, Okl St, Baylor, BYU, Hous
B10 5 Oh St, Mich, Mich St, Wis, Iowa
ACC 4 Pitt, WF, NC ST, Clemson
PAC 12 2 Ore, Utah
Others, ND, SDst, UTSA

Looks like the B12 has much right as the B10 to being a power conference, won't argue that the SEC is the best conference, the rest are pretenders.
PAC12 would be the first to get demoted
 
adselder09 said:
The new Big 12 is a better overall football conference top to bottom than both Pac 12 and ACC.
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This is why I am in favor of no auto bids into the playoff. Most years, the majority of the 12 best teams will reside in the SEC, Big 10 and South Bend, IN.

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