ColdWindBlows
Active member
Interested to see who you consider to be the “Elite” programs in the respected Regions listed above. Feel free to include “very good” programs that are on their way to Elite status and why?
Regions 1, 5, 9, 13, 17, 21 “VERY GOOD” vs. “ELITE” programs
- Thread starter ColdWindBlows
- Start date
Chardon’tComeAtMe
Active member
Assuming Elite = regional finals most years, state semi-finals every few years … the obvious ones are Ed’s, Iggy, Hoban, Chardon, Kirtland, Medina.
Aurora, Dover, Canfield, maybe Solon, Massillon, and McKinley start to be in the gray area. I think Massillon and McKinley go into the Elite category.
So the Very Good then becomes … Mentor, Walsh, Lake Catholic(?), Perry. I am likely forgetting a lot of schools in D5-D7.
Aurora, Dover, Canfield, maybe Solon, Massillon, and McKinley start to be in the gray area. I think Massillon and McKinley go into the Elite category.
So the Very Good then becomes … Mentor, Walsh, Lake Catholic(?), Perry. I am likely forgetting a lot of schools in D5-D7.
MentorGrad2002
Well-known member
So Medina who has never made a final 4 is elite but Mentor who has made 7 final 4s/4 time D1 state runner ups and owns a 9-2 record vs Medina is just very good ...
Ok
Chardon’tComeAtMe
Active member
Good catch. Can’t disagree there. Some Drew Allar and recency bias on my part.So Medina who has never made a final 4 is elite but Mentor who has made 7 final 4s/4 time D1 state runner ups and owns a 9-2 record vs Medina is just very good ...
Ok
But I do see Medina on the upswing, and Mentor on the downswing. And I know you are familiar with the knock on Mentor - can’t win the big one. That has to be part of the calculus.
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raising4daughters
Active member
Wow, trolling Mentor takes some stones. I have zero connection to Mentor but if you asked me to list the most elite public school football program in NE Ohio, perhaps the entire state, my vote would be for Mentor.
MentorGrad2002
Well-known member
I'd say getting to 7 final fours and 4 state title games while having to battle private schools like Iggy and Eds every year in the region requires winning plenty of big games.
Not quite the same as D3 buddy. You guys just won back to back titles and played only one private school total in the 2 runs. Playing the mini colleges has to be part of the calculus along with the difficulty level of D1 vs D3
Your powerhouse program has an open invite to schedule them in a real game if you think you are on even ground
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College Football Fan
Member
Steubenville is more elite then Dover
I think u might be forgetting one
Chardon’tComeAtMe
Active member
The question isn't D1 vs D3 (even though we have beat Mentor the past several years in the head to head scrimmage) ... but the point remains that Mentor isn't Elite.
And check your facts and your math - both title games were against private schools. Plus Ursuline in '21. And this year we added Florida Baptist. Anyone, anywhere, anytime.
Chardon’tComeAtMe
Active member
I love Big Red. Good call out.
MentorGrad2002
Well-known member
I've seen a lot of the Johnny come lately Chardon guys talking about scrimmage "wins". That's a half game of practice. It's not a real game. And it's hilarious when you guys try to brag about those.
If Mentor and Chardon played the last 20 years you'd probably win 3 or 4. It's two different levels of ball from D1 to D3.
I know some of the little brother wrc teams hate Mentor and you seem like one of them. Can't blame you guys as what is the record of the WRC vs Mentor in football and basketball? That can build up resentment
So can't win the big one is < never getting to the big one?
Chardon’tComeAtMe
Active member
Had to double-check some facts quick ... we are in the {checks notes} football forum, and the year is {looks at calendar} 2022. But hey, big props to Mentor hoops, and the Tressel era at Mentor was definitely elite. So you got me there.
MentorGrad2002
Well-known member
When Mentor has played Chardon in football in real games , you haven't done well in the last 20 years. So nice try.
Probably just don't know much history after joining the season after the 2020 title and all. Your hatred of Mentor is noted though. And the logic has been laughed at by many who have seen it too
Chardon’tComeAtMe
Active member
Oh geez - sorry if I hurt your feelings, snowflake. Mentor is a good program, and is a little down since Triv left. You can't deny that. I say very good, you say Elite.
MentorGrad2002
Well-known member
Didn't hurt my feelings. More just laughing at your stupidity and lack of knowledge for calling Medina elite and dropping Mentor below them. Again your hatred is showing little brother
Journey
Well-known member
In my mind, elite programs have their reputation precede them going into a game. There are a lot of great programs that have barely made it out of their region, let alone consistently. And yeah Chardon's worldbeater teams would have lost to Mentor's worldbeater teams, but they're both outstanding from their peers. It's not an either/or and their peers aren't the same competition.
I saw Dover mentioned, yet we only have 1 regional title. But we are now at 44 playoff games and that consistency means that we're always in the conversation and our reputation precedes us. I don't know if we'll ever win state, but nobody can accuse us of not trying to crack that ceiling.
I saw Dover mentioned, yet we only have 1 regional title. But we are now at 44 playoff games and that consistency means that we're always in the conversation and our reputation precedes us. I don't know if we'll ever win state, but nobody can accuse us of not trying to crack that ceiling.
topperbounce
Well-known member
You have to remember that @MentorGrad2002 believes if you play for a Division 1 school that automatically makes you a better football player. Ridiculous. It doesn’t matter if it’s DI or DIII, it’s the Jimmy and Joe’s that play the game not their Division designation. Stop bringing up the DI and DIII comparison. Mentor wouldn’t schedule Chardon in the 90’s, just like Chardon won’t schedule them now. That’s ok because we’ll take our scrimmage wins the last three seasons.
ColdWindBlows
Active member
I’d definitely put Mentor in the “Elite” arena for sure! That’s why we all want a shot at them, right?! Mentor has successfully competed at the highest levels in recent history and has earned that “Elite” status. Just because Mentor didn’t win it all doesn’t mean the program is not Elite, IMO. They may have taken a few steps backwards as of late, but that will get corrected.
What I do know and love is that we have some damn good public school football in our area this year/most years! Kirtland, Riverside, Chardon, Perry, Mentor at a combined 51-7. 3 of losses were against each other. All cities/towns that connect, not too bad. Elites in my opinion are:
D1: Ed’s, Mentor, Iggy’s
D2: Hoban
D3: Chardon, Ursuline
D4: Glenville(not sure they shld be D4), Big Red
D5: South Range
D6: Kirtland
D7: ?
MentorGrad2002
Well-known member
No I never said that stuff. But if so called scrimmage wins make you feel proud then so be it. I like Chardon. I can say that while not thinking they'd beat us head to head most years because they wouldn't.
MentorGrad2002
Well-known member
Agreed on good football in the area.
Mentor made the D1 final 4 in 2020 and lost to Pick Central by 7 after our all Ohio QB got benched because of dumb covid tracing
People seem to forget public programs go up and down. 2 just ok years don't mean the program is done. And Mentor is still alive in 2022 btw even though I think that ends this week
topperbounce
Well-known member
Bro, you’re exhausting. When you make comments like “It’s two different levels of ball from DI to DIII” and write stuff like “little brother WRC teams,” you’re implying that the athletes are better because they play for a DI team.
It’s not hard to figure out. That said, good luck this week against Medina. If my nephew wasn’t one of their stud WRs I would be rooting for a local win.
MentorGrad2002
Well-known member
Well it is two different levels of ball. D1 is a deeper and better division than D3. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.
There can be select athletes better in D3 than D1 in a given year. Not all D1 teams are better than all D3. But D1 is a way better division overall. Not even close
Your fellow Chardon fan clearly has a chip on his shoulder towards Mentor so those comments were warranted.
Little brother syndrome happens with some wrc fans towards Mentor because of dominance in the revenue sports. Some cheer for us. I'd say it's 50-50 on that
Don't quote me if you don't want me to respond. I think those from Chardon bragging about scrimmages while not having the stones to play real games are hilarious
topperbounce
Well-known member
I agree with you. Though their success isn’t on the same level as some of these teams mentioned, Kenston has been a player since the 80’s. Lots of these folks forget pre 2000’s. Kenston has a very strong past and present resume. Unfortunately, their 2022 history ends this Friday…….haha
Crimson and Black
Well-known member
Mentor is an elite blue blood program. Anyone thinking otherwise simply has limited knowledge of Ohio HS Football.
Chardon’tComeAtMe
Active member
Tons on debate on Mentor ... but none on the other schools?
Curious what everyone thinks about Massillon?
Curious what everyone thinks about Massillon?
raising4daughters
Active member
Every other thread becomes about Massillon, now this one too? That didn't take long.
eaglesfan216
Active member
While I'm hard pressed to label a program as elite without titles to back it up, Mentor is one of if not the only exception. There have been many years where Mentor has beaten Eds/Ignatius (or both!) and then just ran out of gas at the end of the year against an R4/R2 team that had a significantly easier path to the final 4 (see: 2012, 2013). Mentor has always had a brutal path to the title game (as any other R1 team does). While trying to gain their footing still post-Triv, they are still a respected powerhouse in NEO.
BeaverTalk
Member
Elite programs
D1R1: St Eds, St Ignatius, Mentor
D2R5: Hoban and Hudson
D3R9: Chardon,Ursuline, Aurora, Kenston
D6: Kirtland
Not sure about Medina being an elite program. Am I missing something?
Hudson has made the playoffs every year since 2011 except 2018 (I believe they got a new coaching staff that year). Definitely worthy of an elite status. By that same reasoning I put Aurora in that category as well. Canfield is close.
Massillon is definitely an elite program. McK has definitely fallen off. I really want to say they are but I don’t know
Biggest factor was playoff appearance consistency then I valued how well they usually do when they make the playoffs. That is the best way to measure the long term success of a program in HSFB in my opinion. Let me know if I missed anyone based on that criteria.
There are a lot of really good programs out there. Most would agree on what those ones are
D1R1: St Eds, St Ignatius, Mentor
D2R5: Hoban and Hudson
D3R9: Chardon,Ursuline, Aurora, Kenston
D6: Kirtland
Not sure about Medina being an elite program. Am I missing something?
Hudson has made the playoffs every year since 2011 except 2018 (I believe they got a new coaching staff that year). Definitely worthy of an elite status. By that same reasoning I put Aurora in that category as well. Canfield is close.
Massillon is definitely an elite program. McK has definitely fallen off. I really want to say they are but I don’t know
Biggest factor was playoff appearance consistency then I valued how well they usually do when they make the playoffs. That is the best way to measure the long term success of a program in HSFB in my opinion. Let me know if I missed anyone based on that criteria.
There are a lot of really good programs out there. Most would agree on what those ones are