Region 4 Championship: Archbishop Moeller (12-1) vs Lakota West (13-0)

Who wins

  • Moeller by 17+

  • Moeller by 8-16

  • Moeller by 1-7

  • West by 1-7

  • West by 8-16

  • West by 17+


Results are only viewable after voting.

4GX

Well-known member
Oh Jesus 😂 you really don’t know football…. And to sit here and treat Smoot as if he was DB not a QB is ignorant. Is Lamar Jackson a “running back”?
Smoot led his team to a win over the Moeller team that LW/Bolden could not beat-- and almost (but for a missed, short makable FG) beat the X team the year before that LW/Bolden could not beat. Then Smoot almost single-handedly led Springfield to a closely contested loss against a heavily favored Ed team in the final-- these are ALL things that Bolden could not do for LW-- but, another, more gifted athlete on LW maybe could have emulated Smoot's accomplishments-- but, we'll never know, as no one else on those LW teams for the last 4 years ever got a real shot to try to win the QB job.
 

boothmark77

Well-known member
The answer is no one would’ve been better. I’ve seen the 3 guys on JV. Not even close. It will be interesting to see what they do next year. Of course someone could transfer in. That seems to be everyone’s quick fix. But they’ll have other issues on offense to like replacing the almost the entire o line and I look like to see them find a reliable option at tailback. They really had none this year as Lloyd and Wilson who were wideouts also got a lot of the carries at RB.
👍
 
Both of your last two statements prove/support my point. He's NOT an accurate passer.

As for watching LW (and its QB) other than against X-- no, I have not-- but I've now seen him in ~5 games against X, over 3 years-- and he hasn't really made any progress-- he was every bit as inaccurate and limited as a senior as he was as a sophomore. I don't get why anyone would think he's one of the top QBs in Ohio this year-- or any of the past 3 years.
I think that X deserves some credit in this. To say he is not accurate when only watching him play against X throughout the years isn't "wrong" but I think we need to look at the total body of work rather than one match up.
 

The Game

Well-known member
Bolden is a very good football player. I think he definitely can play D1 football. It may or may not be at QB. I could see him moving positions and being a good player at the next level. The kid is a winner plain and simple. I think he is the type of kid that has the intangibles you can’t measure with a stopwatch or tape measure. If not for Moeller having two extremely talented teams the last two years, who knows how far they would have gone.
 

4GX

Well-known member
Bolden is a very good football player. I think he definitely can play D1 football. It may or may not be at QB. I could see him moving positions and being a good player at the next level. The kid is a winner plain and simple. I think he is the type of kid that has the intangibles you can’t measure with a stopwatch or tape measure. If not for Moeller having two extremely talented teams the last two years, who knows how far they would have gone.
That's kind of an important fact (and inconvenient-- for Bolden senior)-- he played the kid at QB-- the most important spot on the field-- if he wasn't really meant to be a QB, they shoulda moved him 2+ years ago... if you are saying that he has what it takes to play safety in college, well then, alright-- play him at safety.
 

Smarty2022

Well-known member
If West couldn’t Win the Region this yr or last I don’t know when they can win it! Bolden definitely not a D1 QB that would get any playing time. Think his best bet would be Position change.
 

fish82

Well-known member
4XL's weird boner for Bolden is still a thing I see. lol. I mean, he's derped up his share of threads over the years, but this gem is right up there near the top. 🤣
but, we'll never know, as no one else on those LW teams for the last 4 years ever got a real shot to try to win the QB job.
 

firehawk

Well-known member
4XL's weird boner for Bolden is still a thing I see. lol. I mean, he's derped up his share of threads over the years, but this gem is right up there near the top. 🤣
Smoot led his team to a win over the Moeller team that LW/Bolden could not beat-- and almost (but for a missed, short makable FG) beat the X team the year before that LW/Bolden could not beat. Then Smoot almost single-handedly led Springfield to a closely contested loss against a heavily favored Ed team in the final-- these are ALL things that Bolden could not do for LW-- but, another, more gifted athlete on LW maybe could have emulated Smoot's accomplishments-- but, we'll never know, as no one else on those LW teams for the last 4 years ever got a real shot to try to win the QB job.
Another gifted athlete could of? Apparently you didn’t watch the LW/Moeller either year. They lost this year because their d line got absolutely man handled by the Moeller o line. If you can’t stop the run which they couldn’t that game your chances of winning aren’t going to be very good. As far as the game last year you claim Bolden can’t throw a deep ball yet he hits 2 receivers in stride who had 5 yards on the defensive backs and would’ve been sure TD’s and they dropped the ball. The first one was one to Afari was on the first play from scrimmage. The one to Lloyd early in the 4th would’ve put West back in the lead. Blame him all you want which is what you seem to get your kicks out of but if Afari and Lloyd catch the ball 🏈 West wins the game by multiple scores. That’s not even mentioning the fumble West had at their own 5 yard line which led to a Moeller TD on the very next play. West handed Moeller the game last year but it wasn’t mistakes by Bolden that caused the loss. This year they simply weren’t as good a team as last year. Yes they went 10-0 but the X team they lost to in opener last year and beat in the playoffs last year was much better than the X team this year. They also had Afari and Brown last year who could stretch the defense at receiver with their athleticism. This year it was more of a shorter passing game because they didn’t have them. They were also better running the ball last year to. They had Cam Goode in backfield which made Bolden more effective as a runner to. Whether or not they’d done better or worse with someone else we won’t know. We will see though how they look post Bolden QB though next year.
 

firehawk

Well-known member
Castner is a lot like Cox was at LW. He has under performed for years. Mason could be a powerhouse with the right coach.
You could argue that I guess. I would argue that Krause at Fairfield is to and maybe even more so. But for some reason he seems to get over looked on here for it. Fairfield had more returning players back then anyone else in the conference this year and usual imploded at the end of the season. It seems to happen a lot.
 

MoeDude

LIVE FREE OR DIE!
Why don't you ask them that question? As well as the Yappi posters who complain about "recruiting"
This makes me laugh. Pat Mancuso/Princeton, Coombs/Colerain, Bolden/Colerain/LW were/are great recruiters. If you build it they will come. It is my impression though that one thing in common with all three is that they really care/cared about their players and helped a lot of kids seek the straight and narrow path to a better life. Recruiting is such an abstract word that people who hate winners always want to throw out there. In the end what pepole want to call recruiting is really the parents marketing their talented athletic child to try and find the best environment that will advance them to the next level. One infamous story like this were the Kentucky 3 that ended up at Moeller back in the 1970s. These three going to Moeller led to changes in the OHSAA rules regarding out of state players. But if anyone took the time to really learn about that story, it was the parents who approached Moeller and asked how their sons could attend The Big Moe. I've heard similar stories about Mancuso during his days at Princeton.

It really comes down to two things. If you build it they will come. Second, parents are searching for the best advantage for their gifted child.
 
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MoeDude

LIVE FREE OR DIE!
One of the more infamous "recruiting"/"marketing" ploys of a high school athlete occurred around 20 years ago in basketball with O.J. Mayo. He and his AAU All Star team ended up at North College Hill high school in CIncinnati but the stories flying around how they shopped around for the "right" school are pretty crazy.
 

FourthAndOne

Well-known member
Castner is a lot like Cox was at LW. He has under performed for years. Mason could be a powerhouse with the right coach.
Agree 100 percent. I also find that most people attached to the Mason program are big Castner supporters and constantly state Mason loses all of their best players to Moe/StX. It is such a BS excuse. Lot of kids from Lakota going to Moe/StX as well. What the heck is Castner putting in the Koolaid? Mason will continue to win their 7 to 9 games per season, maybe get to the second round of the playoffs, possible third round every once in a while in this new format, but they aren't winning the GMC and they are not going to compete for the Region until they get a Head Coach that can build a program.
 

FourthAndOne

Well-known member
It really comes down to two things. If you build it they will come. Second, parents are searching for the best advantage for their gifted child.
I am pretty sure Tom Bolden got this memo years ago along. A lot of parents who recognize or think their kid is talented don't want to send them to an average program. This goes for all levels, Junior High, High School, and College.

Coaches have to be able to make a connection with the parents these days because too often it is a parent driving the process for their kid. Not saying it is right, but people have to recognize the truth.
 

4GX

Well-known member
4XL's weird boner for Bolden is still a thing I see. lol. I mean, he's derped up his share of threads over the years, but this gem is right up there near the top. 🤣
Only "weird boner" here is you, Fishy182.
 

4GX

Well-known member
Another gifted athlete could of? Apparently you didn’t watch the LW/Moeller either year. They lost this year because their d line got absolutely man handled by the Moeller o line. If you can’t stop the run which they couldn’t that game your chances of winning aren’t going to be very good. As far as the game last year you claim Bolden can’t throw a deep ball yet he hits 2 receivers in stride who had 5 yards on the defensive backs and would’ve been sure TD’s and they dropped the ball. The first one was one to Afari was on the first play from scrimmage. The one to Lloyd early in the 4th would’ve put West back in the lead. Blame him all you want which is what you seem to get your kicks out of but if Afari and Lloyd catch the ball 🏈 West wins the game by multiple scores. That’s not even mentioning the fumble West had at their own 5 yard line which led to a Moeller TD on the very next play. West handed Moeller the game last year but it wasn’t mistakes by Bolden that caused the loss. This year they simply weren’t as good a team as last year. Yes they went 10-0 but the X team they lost to in opener last year and beat in the playoffs last year was much better than the X team this year. They also had Afari and Brown last year who could stretch the defense at receiver with their athleticism. This year it was more of a shorter passing game because they didn’t have them. They were also better running the ball last year to. They had Cam Goode in backfield which made Bolden more effective as a runner to. Whether or not they’d done better or worse with someone else we won’t know. We will see though how they look post Bolden QB though next year.
You make some good points... but my eyes (in six games of watching him) don't lie-- he's not accurate throwing the ball on a regular, consistent basis-- if he were, there would be more Division I colleges offering him scholarships to play QB... if he gets to college, and gets to play QB for a Division I team (that doesn't run the ball all the time, like they do at some Service academies), then I will stand down on the argument.
 

fish82

Well-known member
Another gifted athlete could of? Apparently you didn’t watch the LW/Moeller either year. They lost this year because their d line got absolutely man handled by the Moeller o line. If you can’t stop the run which they couldn’t that game your chances of winning aren’t going to be very good. As far as the game last year you claim Bolden can’t throw a deep ball yet he hits 2 receivers in stride who had 5 yards on the defensive backs and would’ve been sure TD’s and they dropped the ball. The first one was one to Afari was on the first play from scrimmage. The one to Lloyd early in the 4th would’ve put West back in the lead. Blame him all you want which is what you seem to get your kicks out of but if Afari and Lloyd catch the ball 🏈 West wins the game by multiple scores. That’s not even mentioning the fumble West had at their own 5 yard line which led to a Moeller TD on the very next play. West handed Moeller the game last year but it wasn’t mistakes by Bolden that caused the loss. This year they simply weren’t as good a team as last year. Yes they went 10-0 but the X team they lost to in opener last year and beat in the playoffs last year was much better than the X team this year. They also had Afari and Brown last year who could stretch the defense at receiver with their athleticism. This year it was more of a shorter passing game because they didn’t have them. They were also better running the ball last year to. They had Cam Goode in backfield which made Bolden more effective as a runner to. Whether or not they’d done better or worse with someone else we won’t know. We will see though how they look post Bolden QB though next year.

West didn’t have anyone remotely able to challenge Bolden for the job. If they had, they would have been starting. West has never been strong at QB...other than Mitch, Malik Grove is the only decent one in the past 10+ years who didn't end up transferring to LS or Moeller.

Mitch was obviously the best QB on the roster the past 4 years. Which is why 4XL's dumb take that "no one else got a shot at the job" is so laughable.
 

Monstawarrior

New member
Not surprised this was a battle. We're still deciding where to send our 6th grader. LW seems a bit drug friendly while Moeller is straight weird.
Moeller is a Catholic school, if thats not your thing it doesn't mean they're weird. As for LW "drug" problem, check ANY school in the US. The more money kids have access to, the more drugs you'll find.
 

Monstawarrior

New member
He's not able to accurately complete a pass more than 7-8 yards down field-- so, he may keep his eyes down field when he scrambles (as you claim), but it doesn't matter, because he can't throw it where he's looking... and with his inaccuracy, I don't think it would matter if he were 6'5"-- he might be able to play at a Service academy, in a nearly all-run offense-- but, I'm not aware of ANY Division I college offers that he has right now... IMO, he is NOT a college Division I QB... X's O'Malley is actually notably better-- he can run it pretty well, and throw it (despite erratic spirals) substantially better-- as he proved in the matchup with LW.

Oh, and there is NOTHING "advanced" about LW's scheme-- in fact, rudimentary is the word that comes to mind, to describe it-- they basically have three plays (that work)-- hand-off to the Tailback, QB keeper, or delayed QB draw (after the QB pretends to be dropping back to pass)-- if the opposing team has a good run defense, that consistently stops those three plays, LW has no answer for what to do, to score points (or even move the ball).
Bolden threw for over 2500 yards this year. West ended the first half vs Moller with a TD drive by throwing the ball. The passing game was sophisticated enough to do those two things. I could go on but I don't have time to fix ignorance.
 

4GX

Well-known member
Bolden threw for over 2500 yards this year. West ended the first half vs Moller with a TD drive by throwing the ball. The passing game was sophisticated enough to do those two things. I could go on but I don't have time to fix ignorance.
Most of those yards came against terrible teams in the GMC-- how many did he have against X and Moeller in those games? What was his completion percentage in those games? His biggest completion in the X game was a ~7-yard pass over the middle, that resulted in a TD, when the receiver broke the linebacker's tackle and ran 40+ yards for the score...
 

ReLoad

Moderator
Castner is a lot like Cox was at LW. He has under performed for years. Mason could be a powerhouse with the right coach.
Steve Specht was a position coach at Lakota under head coach John Sabatalo in the 1980's
When Sabatalo retired from football, Specht interviewed for the head coach job with Sabatalo's endorsement but they gave the job to outsider Larry Cox.
Good move Lakota.
StX thanks you
 

ReLoad

Moderator
One of the more infamous "recruiting"/"marketing" ploys of a high school athlete occurred around 20 years ago in basketball with O.J. Mayo. He and his AAU All Star team ended up at North College Hill high school in CIncinnati but the stories flying around how they shopped around for the "right" school are pretty crazy.
Always amused when Moeller supporters point out recruiting/marketing issues LOL
Faust began this "practice" after the first year of Moeller football and it has persisted ever since.
Build it and they will come LMAO
 

MoeDude

LIVE FREE OR DIE!
Always amused when Moeller supporters point out recruiting/marketing issues LOL
Faust began this "practice" after the first year of Moeller football and it has persisted ever since.
Build it and they will come LMAO
Never seen anyone who supposedly loves St. X so much obsess so much over another school. Between you 4GX and jwuerth it’s hard to tell who gets wetter over talking about Moeller.
 

firehawk

Well-known member
West didn’t have anyone remotely able to challenge Bolden for the job. If they had, they would have been starting. West has never been strong at QB...other than Mitch, Malik Grove is the only decent one in the past 10+ years who didn't end up transferring to LS or Moeller.

Mitch was obviously the best QB on the roster the past 4 years. Which is why 4XL's dumb take that "no one else got a shot at the job" is so laughable.
You are absolutely right about Bolden being the best on the roster the last 4 years. No one else comes close. I will say Blake Darland in 2014 was pretty good. He played behind Grove in 2013 and started in 2014 and had a really good year and led them to their first 2 playoff wins at Centerville and the game against East at Mason before bowing out against Wayne at Welcome. But those 3 are it. Team actually underachieved very typical for Cox coached teams finishing 5-5 that year in regular season. But won that last game against East who was 8-1 and slid in the playoffs as a 16 seed. Got a good draw/matchup when Centerville upset Wayne in that last game pushing them to the one seed. Then beat East a second time in the playoffs. Cox for whatever reason did do well against East. Have been hearing rumblings that Haynes may be done at East. We’ll see soon enough. Rivalry has been one sided and is likely to be more so with Bolden at West now.
 

Kballer

Well-known member
I have said this for a long time- the biggest advantage the Cincinnati Catholic schools have in sports comes down to the middle schools. The giant public schools have one or two middle school teams for football and basketball and make cuts- this weeds out so many kids at a time when they shouldn’t be judged yet on their athletic potential. The Catholic schools have maybe 30 boys in a grade and anyone can be on a team. The public schools have a couple of experienced QBs coming from middle school- the private schools have dozens of kids coming in who have played QB (or any other position) for their “feeder” team.

This also means that these private school kids know they have to beat out several guys for a shot to play in high school. They can’t rest on their laurels of being “the man” in middle school at say Plains or Mason middle school. The public’s have really created their own disadvantage by having these large middle Schools with limited athletic opportunities for their kids.
 

fish82

Well-known member
I have said this for a long time- the biggest advantage the Cincinnati Catholic schools have in sports comes down to the middle schools. The giant public schools have one or two middle school teams for football and basketball and make cuts- this weeds out so many kids at a time when they shouldn’t be judged yet on their athletic potential. The Catholic schools have maybe 30 boys in a grade and anyone can be on a team. The public schools have a couple of experienced QBs coming from middle school- the private schools have dozens of kids coming in who have played QB (or any other position) for their “feeder” team.

This also means that these private school kids know they have to beat out several guys for a shot to play in high school. They can’t rest on their laurels of being “the man” in middle school at say Plains or Mason middle school. The public’s have really created their own disadvantage by having these large middle Schools with limited athletic opportunities for their kids.

Agreed. Very nice take. 👍
 
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