I know the 04 boys age group very well. I know players and parents personally from most of the schools mentioned. I am well aware that without the transfers they have had with their Junior class that they would not have been in contention this year or next year for anything. They have had transfers from Milford, Lasalle, Mason, Lakota. All of them are good players that play on some of the top club teams (no, they aren’t all from CUP) in Ohio South. I have seen their coach at 04 club games talking to parents. You would think that just because it is obvious that he recruits players that it would be easy to prove. That definitely isn’t the case. Is it fair that this happens? Probably not. Do the kids that are there already like it? of course not, especially when they are cast aside for a transfer. But what good does it do for existing parents to complain? Will it buy their kid more playing time? No. Would it be fair to the kids in the program for their program to be involved in a scandal? No. So what should happen? Probably nothing. So what I see happen is parents find out about Yappi, and then get on there and anonymously complain about the recruiting. It is really all they can do. Maybe it makes them feel better. Probably not. Welcome to the real world. Work harder, make it hard for the coach to take you off the field, play through the adversity. Realize that coaches see players differently and adapt if you need to, to their style. HS isn’t like club...it is harder to switch if you aren’t happy with the coach. Of course, if you go anywhere but Moeller, looks like you have at least one option.
RECRUITING!!!!
- Thread starter Whistleblower2020
- Start date
High school matters VERY little in college recruiting.
You make some very fair and good points, but I disagree with your assessment that Moeller would not have been in contention for anything this year or next year. Even without this year’s junior transfers, Moeller has strong returning junior and sophomore classes. And their incoming freshman class is extremely promising. I know a lot of kids in the 04, 05, and 06 age groups from club soccer around town and Moeller got its fair share of strong talent. On paper St. X is probably the strongest team in the city, but Moeller’s cupboard is far from bare.
youngmanmom
Active member
You can make a guess at "without transfers" by taking a look at their second and third teams from the past few years. They weren't good and at times struggled to be above average. We played many stronger teams than them in the past few years at the lower levels (Loveland, Centerville, Milford, Springboro, Beavercreek, Elder). However, I agree with your assessment of St. X. Their program has been consistently good over all three levels the past three years. They develop what they are given. Go St. X! (except when we play them, of course).
I don’t read much into records at the JV level as an indicator of future varsity performance. At Moeller, for example, they roster a large number of underclassmen on varsity, and many of those kids get significant minutes. While this approach sacrifices JV records, it can build experience and readiness for varsity. Also, the talent pool at schools like Mason, St. X and other large districts is far deeper than Moeller, meaning their JV teams are likely fundamentally more skilled than Moeller’s JV teams. What is indisputable is that Moeller’s top 13-16 players across their program match up favorably with just about every other school in the area.
BASESWIMPARENT
Well-known member
Well if you recruit them, you better play them right? Go beat Iggy's. They are the gold standard.
Keep in mind that in addition to having a pretty weak talent pool without transfers, they also lost their best Senior in Kade Tepe. St. X JV didn’t lose a game last year from what I recall, so their talent pool coming in was pretty solid. St. X certainly doesn’t put their top players on Varsity throughout the program, but looking at their current Senior class, and Junior class they will be hard to beat if their coach doesn’t screw it up.
BASESWIMPARENT
Well-known member
That coach thing you said is a big concern. He has one system and he needs to have the players that can play that system, otherwise the team will not meet their potential.
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Cincy_Futbol
Active member
St. X has one of the most talented rosters in the city this upcoming year. All that being said, when have we not said this? They consistently have some of the deepest teams and they can’t make it past a regional semi-final. Please don’t bring up JV records. St. X would win JV state every single year. Then they get to varsity and the results aren’t there. I don’t blame the talent or the kids.
EvilReklew
New member
last year's varsity at Moe had something like 25 players, a complete joke. The ridiculous number of undersized freshman only got in for mop up minutes. One of the varsity freshman that got real minutes was "coincidentally" the son of the assistant to the President of the school. Because he happened to be standing in front of the goal during a scrum against St X and poked in a loose ball he was touted as the next Messi. The crazy number of Frosh on Varsity is a cheap recruiting tactic to sway kids from St X, "come to Moe, here Freshman make varsity".
Take a look at any of the big programs around the state and they all have 20+ kids on their roster. The state tournament maximum is 23, and with injuries and other issues many schools will go slightly over that number in the regular season. Say what you want about freshmen playing at Moeller, but the reality is that those freshmen have delivered in big moments, including multiple game-winning goals against St. X the last few years. Consider that Moeller’s best player the last few years was Parker Grinstead. He was a 4-year varsity player who became the 2-time city player of the year and is headed to OSU on a soccer scholarship. If he’d gone to St. X he’d almost certainly have not played 4 varsity seasons (maybe not even 3) and would not have been challenged early on as he was given the opportunity to be at Moeller. Talented kids are given opportunities at Moeller that they may not be elsewhere. And I don’t see how a coach building their kids up as the next Messi is a bad thing.
Scottyflatstix
Member
Interesting discussion here and I’d like to share my perspective as I played DI sports in college and have a son within CUP that hasn’t started high school yet.
As a parent, athletics are secondary in any decision we make for our son. This is a unique year in that covid has really impacted families negatively from an education standpoint. Public schools did not handle the transition to remote learning well in the spring. I’ve talked to multiple families that have moved or are considering a move to a private school. It’s my understanding they are in a much better position to return to the classroom 5 days a week and livestream classes over the internet with mandatory attendance through teams or zoom.
Making a move to a private school is a large investment. Moeller is close to 15k per year. They don’t give athletic scholarships. Tuition aid is financial based and I’m not sure about academic scholarships. $60,000 is a lot of money to play a guaranteed 68 games over your 4 year career ... almost $900 per game. And, considering that 90%+ of your college exposure comes from club, families aren’t making this decision based on soccer.
There seems to be an awful lot of noise around direct or indirect recruiting and I just don’t see it. The fact is the Moeller program sells itself. All of these high school coaches also coach club. It’s a way for them to refine their skills, experiment with tactics, evaluate talent and let’s face it, coaches love to coach. It’s in their blood.
Furthermore, these boys want to play with their friends. Within CUP, they play together for 10 months a year, practice 4 days a week, travel to tournaments together and generally hang out together outside of soccer. They are the best of friends. Plus, their parents develop long lasting friendships as well. As a high level athlete, for which I was many year ago, all I wanted to do was practice and compete against the best. From what I can tell, this is the Moeller model. They don’t seem to care what grade a kid is in. If they are good enough, they are old enough. Who cares if a freshman only gets 10 minutes a game. They are getting 80 minutes a game in club against high level talent across the region and country. The fact that they compete against Juniors and Seniors that are 3-4 years older, faster, more skilled and stronger is invaluable to these kids. It makes them better players and it makes the program better. CUP kids and other kids from high level clubs want this.
Now, consider this question ... what school are you going to consider if you are a northern Cincinnati / suburban parent of a high level athlete that is considering private school due to the quality of the education, culture, possibly faith, has concerns for public schools, wants his son to play with his friends and be a part of a successful program that develops talent?
The list is short ....
As a parent, athletics are secondary in any decision we make for our son. This is a unique year in that covid has really impacted families negatively from an education standpoint. Public schools did not handle the transition to remote learning well in the spring. I’ve talked to multiple families that have moved or are considering a move to a private school. It’s my understanding they are in a much better position to return to the classroom 5 days a week and livestream classes over the internet with mandatory attendance through teams or zoom.
Making a move to a private school is a large investment. Moeller is close to 15k per year. They don’t give athletic scholarships. Tuition aid is financial based and I’m not sure about academic scholarships. $60,000 is a lot of money to play a guaranteed 68 games over your 4 year career ... almost $900 per game. And, considering that 90%+ of your college exposure comes from club, families aren’t making this decision based on soccer.
There seems to be an awful lot of noise around direct or indirect recruiting and I just don’t see it. The fact is the Moeller program sells itself. All of these high school coaches also coach club. It’s a way for them to refine their skills, experiment with tactics, evaluate talent and let’s face it, coaches love to coach. It’s in their blood.
Furthermore, these boys want to play with their friends. Within CUP, they play together for 10 months a year, practice 4 days a week, travel to tournaments together and generally hang out together outside of soccer. They are the best of friends. Plus, their parents develop long lasting friendships as well. As a high level athlete, for which I was many year ago, all I wanted to do was practice and compete against the best. From what I can tell, this is the Moeller model. They don’t seem to care what grade a kid is in. If they are good enough, they are old enough. Who cares if a freshman only gets 10 minutes a game. They are getting 80 minutes a game in club against high level talent across the region and country. The fact that they compete against Juniors and Seniors that are 3-4 years older, faster, more skilled and stronger is invaluable to these kids. It makes them better players and it makes the program better. CUP kids and other kids from high level clubs want this.
Now, consider this question ... what school are you going to consider if you are a northern Cincinnati / suburban parent of a high level athlete that is considering private school due to the quality of the education, culture, possibly faith, has concerns for public schools, wants his son to play with his friends and be a part of a successful program that develops talent?
The list is short ....
If you are choosing a school based on education, preparedness for college, faith, and ability to handle adversity (pandemic), then St. X is a great choice and probably the top school in the City regardless of sport or non-sport kids, Moeller checks most of those boxes (but is much more sports oriented, specifically for soccer). I would advise anyone that plays at a high level (National League, etc...) to consider Moeller as you will have a chance to play 4 years, but understand that he is always looking for better players, and absolutely does recruit from outside. I am not speculating here, to be clear. No, there are no official athletic scholarships at Moeller but if you don’t think decisions are influenced by sports then you are being naive. I like the Moeller model in some respects. I think any kid that enters a HS program regardless of age should be given an opportunity to make Varsity. I think the best 15-20 kids should be on Varsity every year. I think that skill, speed, field vision, passing ability are just as /if not more important than size and strength. Maybe someday that is the way HS soccer will be, but I doubt it. Again, the best kids will play and will have to overcome adversity, a new coach that doesn’t think as highly of you as your club coach does, etc, etc...I honestly just hope they get to play at all at this point.
Scottyflatstix
Member
I’m not naive to think that soccer doesn’t play into the decision for a student athlete. I’m just saying that as a parent it’s only a small part of the decision. I agree that St X is an excellent school. But if your decision is based on all the things I mentioned earlier, the list of schools available is short and frankly stops after St X and Moeller. St X is also twice the size of Moeller, which gives Moeller a small school feel yet is still Division I. Most high schools will struggle to play a possession style of soccer because they lack the skill and depth to do so. That’s another reason why an Iggy, St X or Moe is attractive to high level club players. Certainly kids talk to one another as do parents. However I have never seen active recruiting within CUP to any private school. And, just because CUP, KHA, Pennine, Ohio Premier, etc. have high school coaches on staff, doesn’t mean conversations are taking place. In fact I’d argue quite the opposite. These coaches will refrain from conversation and direct families to admission offices for the schools. I do think the situation with public schools has led to more transfers this year than in the past.
Whistleblower2020
Member
If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it’s probably a duck.
Not many private schools to choose from?
Purcell
McNick
Elder
Lasalle
Moeller
St. X
Badin
Summit Country Day
CCD
Seven Hills
PROBABLY MORE!!! Don’t tell me kids don’t have choices. QUACK, QUACK,QUACK,QUACK
Not many private schools to choose from?
Purcell
McNick
Elder
Lasalle
Moeller
St. X
Badin
Summit Country Day
CCD
Seven Hills
PROBABLY MORE!!! Don’t tell me kids don’t have choices. QUACK, QUACK,QUACK,QUACK
BASESWIMPARENT
Well-known member
They have to have to good soccer programs but Moeller does recruit. It is a little tougher at X as they have a very, very rigorous academic load. Probably both should jump out of the OHSAA and play a prep type schedule. Iggy's should join them.
If there is no physical or visual evidence of said teams recruiting there is really nothing the OHSAA can do. If you believe this is a big enough issue I don't think posting here would be the place to express your concern with Private schools recruiting.
I coach a co-ed team which has one of the lowest enrollment numbers in Division 3. I think the implementation of OHSAA's Competitive Balance had been efficient more so in the D2/D3 levels (eg. Summit CD) but seems useless for higher Division 1 schools.
Recruiting happens everywhere whether its at a private or public institution with open enrollment. There will always be a loophole. But as long as my kids compete at a high level every game/practice win or lose at the end of the day they will get over it and be happy they got to compete in a varsity sport.
I coach a co-ed team which has one of the lowest enrollment numbers in Division 3. I think the implementation of OHSAA's Competitive Balance had been efficient more so in the D2/D3 levels (eg. Summit CD) but seems useless for higher Division 1 schools.
Recruiting happens everywhere whether its at a private or public institution with open enrollment. There will always be a loophole. But as long as my kids compete at a high level every game/practice win or lose at the end of the day they will get over it and be happy they got to compete in a varsity sport.
Like I said, I am not speculating in my observation that recruiting takes place, it is a fact that if your son is one of the top kids in the area then you will get recruited either directly or indirectly (again, I am not speculating that it takes place, I have first hand knowledge). If you go back and read my original post, I just don’t think it matters or is worth complaining about. I also agree that the two best catholic/private school options are St. X and Moeller. There are other options, both catholic and non-faith based (Summit, CCD, Seven Hills). There is something for everyone out there and kids can be successful in any of those schools. If you are good player you are likely to make Varsity as a Freshman at the vast majority of schools. If you want a challenge and compete with other quality players day in and day out then there are only two options IMO.
Whistleblower2020
Member
Private institutions like to say they stand for values but when push comes to shove they have little. Moeller may not get punished for any violations because they are hard to prove but the damage to there reputation has already been done. They have won on the field but now winning has become more important than character. It takes years to build a solid reputation and just a few bad choices to ruin it.
Soccer Toe
Active member
reputation ... remember Faust.
DonJuanDeMarco
Active member
Typically true, but not this year. Assuming high school soccer happens in the next few months, I'd expect to see more college coaches at high school games than normal. With college seasons moving to the spring, coaches won't have the time to travel to club games, making high school important for this year's juniors and seniors.
BASESWIMPARENT
Well-known member
Only if the NCAA opens up for recruiting. Maybe they have and I missed it but if they don't, it will be just like baseball, no official recruiting, no going to games, no contact, etc.
belied dat
Active member
DI opens after September 30.
DII opens on September 1.
DIII has not had any restrictions instituted (outside of the no on-campus visits).
If I'm not mistaken, NAIA and NJCAA haven't had any restrictions.
Yes, as the parent of a former Moeller soccer player they do recruit. People who are on here saying they don’t or quit complaining just don’t know. There are all kinds of things that go on there with sports, particularly soccer that have no business going on in high school setting. And no one cares. I know other schools have turned Moeller into state. Nothing. I know Moeller parents have gone to school administration. I guess the athletic director is useless and the President of the school hides behind the Athletic Director. So I’m not surprised people post on here. Moeller name is being harmed by what goes on with soccer. People know. And numbers of people who know grow every week it seems.
So yes, Moeller recruits for soccer. If the potential recruit can’t afford Moeller they keep lowering tuition until family says yes. And the ripple effect here is Moeller is ticking off the full price paying customers. Moeller families I’ve spoken with are fine with helping out kid who truly wants to go to Moeller. But grabbing a good soccer player from another high school and giving him essentially an athletic scholarship to come play soccer......nope. The other ripple effect you have is you have a kid whose been busting his butt to make varsity since he was a freshman. And in Welker’s infinite wisdom he brings in other kid who doesn’t even know where Moeller is located yet to be varsity starter. That creates serious animosity. The kids have conflict because they are taking their spots and the parents are thinking I’ve Payed 15K to have my kid get screwed. And yes, these kids are getting screwed. Recruiting has no business in high school sports. A good coach can win with players he has instead of recruiting. You do the math.
Also, if you want a varsity coach who promises 8th graders varsity spots if they come to Moeller (real encouraging for a current player trying to make varsity), I hear buy this years new recruits parking passes which are hundreds of dollars (very slimy, not a good message to recruits or current players or any high school age kid. Buys varsity crap ton of gear while JV parents are thinking I’m paying all this money, same as varsity for my kid to get no gear but use these fees to get gear as a recruiting tool for a future player to take my kids spot. Have the narcissism driven coach who treat players who can’t help him win games like garbage. And have administration who seemingly could care less as long as enrollment up and money rolling in. Then Moeller’s your school. My son had many good friends at Moeller. Academically, school is fine. The soccer didn’t even bother him all that much but as a parent sitting back watching what went on for 4 years around soccer it was dispicable. Shouldn’t happen at all at high school level sports. Let alone Catholic school. Coaches who are more concerned about their wins vs losses than the boys should not be coaching. Many boys have had confidence problems playing under Welker. He can be very cancerous to these kids. Most of the boys, even his golden boys leave there not caring for him. That tells you all you need to know. Sad that no one up there seems to care.......
So yes, Moeller recruits for soccer. If the potential recruit can’t afford Moeller they keep lowering tuition until family says yes. And the ripple effect here is Moeller is ticking off the full price paying customers. Moeller families I’ve spoken with are fine with helping out kid who truly wants to go to Moeller. But grabbing a good soccer player from another high school and giving him essentially an athletic scholarship to come play soccer......nope. The other ripple effect you have is you have a kid whose been busting his butt to make varsity since he was a freshman. And in Welker’s infinite wisdom he brings in other kid who doesn’t even know where Moeller is located yet to be varsity starter. That creates serious animosity. The kids have conflict because they are taking their spots and the parents are thinking I’ve Payed 15K to have my kid get screwed. And yes, these kids are getting screwed. Recruiting has no business in high school sports. A good coach can win with players he has instead of recruiting. You do the math.
Also, if you want a varsity coach who promises 8th graders varsity spots if they come to Moeller (real encouraging for a current player trying to make varsity), I hear buy this years new recruits parking passes which are hundreds of dollars (very slimy, not a good message to recruits or current players or any high school age kid. Buys varsity crap ton of gear while JV parents are thinking I’m paying all this money, same as varsity for my kid to get no gear but use these fees to get gear as a recruiting tool for a future player to take my kids spot. Have the narcissism driven coach who treat players who can’t help him win games like garbage. And have administration who seemingly could care less as long as enrollment up and money rolling in. Then Moeller’s your school. My son had many good friends at Moeller. Academically, school is fine. The soccer didn’t even bother him all that much but as a parent sitting back watching what went on for 4 years around soccer it was dispicable. Shouldn’t happen at all at high school level sports. Let alone Catholic school. Coaches who are more concerned about their wins vs losses than the boys should not be coaching. Many boys have had confidence problems playing under Welker. He can be very cancerous to these kids. Most of the boys, even his golden boys leave there not caring for him. That tells you all you need to know. Sad that no one up there seems to care.......
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DonJuanDeMarco
Active member
Cool story.
Yes it will. Too much shady stuff going on and word has gotten out. It’s a shame. It shouldn’t and doesn’t have to be that way.
ohiosoccer2
New member
Until OHSAA or school admin acts I'm going to assume its just hearsay. Every program has angry parents that can and do cry foul.
You should assume it’s hearsay. Who trusts what they read on message board without being skeptical? And your right. Every year I’m sure every team across the country has a parent or two who aren’t happy. But some people come across things and throw out their thoughts even if they don’t have an agenda. Time will tell I guess.
12penguins
Well-known member
Club exclusively EX. Though this year is abit different in that many college coaches will be free during the fall season and may make a hs game visit or two. But generally, soccer has many "showcase events" where club teams participate and multiple coaches can attend and see lots of players over the course of a weekend.
ex_dc_atc
Moderator
Thank you for the info!