clarkgriswold
Well-known member
I find that the awful holes are most often the ones I've most recently made double bogeys on!
Recreational Golf 2020
- Thread starter EagleFan
- Start date
I find that the awful holes are most often the ones I've most recently made double bogeys on!
EagleGuy
Well-known member
A 300 yard drive is a 300 yard drive. Ol' hickory and putter, eh?
Maxie
🏈 2023 State Champions——16-0
Public Courses in Massillon-
I don't know where you got your information. The Legends of Massillon is still 27 holes. Concerning the proposal to put a water park on golf course property, that was never going to be built.
The Elms--still good course.
clarkgriswold
Well-known member
Lucky you. Wonderful, yet taxing, course. Pray that it stays dry. That place is brutal when it is cart path only.
Auggie
Well-known member
The Quarry is about the only top notch course I have yet to play in NEO, it is #1 on the GCO top 20 list: https://golfclevelandohio.com/gco2017-top20.html
Need to get out there this summer.
Need to get out there this summer.
Auggie
Well-known member
My quick review on Chenoweth>
Good:
-Convenient Location
-Nice Staff
-Green and Fairways were in decent condition
Not so Good:
-Poorly designed course with some real head scratching holes, in particular many par 4s.
-Roses Run like routing where houses are right on top of the course to the point that kids where actually playing on the course because it was basically their back yard.
- Slow Play
- Condition issues in the rough, weed infested, and the cart paths were basically unusable.
I can see where if you have local knowledge you can score well but since this was my 1st time playing this thing I struggled with club selection on the tee as well as strategy on how to attack those short tricky par 4s. Not much they can do to cure the architecture issues on the course but they could spend a few $s and at least fertilize the rough and get the cart paths smoothed out so when it is raining you don't have to drive on the wet grass and chew it up.
111411
Moderator
Male 11's and I played The Quarry this morning. Unfortunately, Myron was not able to join us, as I know he loves that course.
We were the first ones out at 7:30 and finished at 10:30 or so.
It was 90 degrees and some of the holes were cart path only, which led to some long walks up hills. The Quarry is still the Quarry, scenic and with 18 unique holes. I started out slowly, but recovered, with bird on 9. I went out 42 and came in 43. I was very happy with that score, as I played from the whites, at 5900. Male 11's didn't fare so well, losing several of the balls that I brought him.
We had planned on lunch at the Granite Grill, but they don't open until 11:00, so we settled on sandwiches at the Oasis.
A fun morning. It's always fun when you spend time with your son.
We were the first ones out at 7:30 and finished at 10:30 or so.
It was 90 degrees and some of the holes were cart path only, which led to some long walks up hills. The Quarry is still the Quarry, scenic and with 18 unique holes. I started out slowly, but recovered, with bird on 9. I went out 42 and came in 43. I was very happy with that score, as I played from the whites, at 5900. Male 11's didn't fare so well, losing several of the balls that I brought him.
We had planned on lunch at the Granite Grill, but they don't open until 11:00, so we settled on sandwiches at the Oasis.
A fun morning. It's always fun when you spend time with your son.
clarkgriswold
Well-known member
I am envious. My boy is far away and I have not had the chance to golf with him in quite a while.
Played my worse round of the year last night. I contemplated throwing the clubs (or myself) down the basement steps when I came home. Instead, I think the clubs will stay in the trunk for a week or so in hopes my game reboots.
111411
Moderator
My oldest doesn't golf, but I help him coach baseball. I do miss my daughter, who is 2 hours south, though.
I will be back at Sleepy the rest of the week, but there are tentative plans with Myron for next week.
I think he may be looking for a course close to where the clientele may barter ProV's
Got out with 111111111411111 today. The man was on fire. I've played hundreds of rounds of golf, with multitudes of people, and I've only played one round with anyone that was as good from 50 yards and in as he was today. If one did stats on his best twelve holes, he'd have had to have logged only 15 putts.
The unlucky course that hosted us today was Raccoon Hill, in Kent. Definitely NOT for the quality of course--more since it's halfway between our residences, and had a relatively open tee sheet today. It's a flat-out easy course for most of the first twelve holes, then gets gimmicky for the remainder. A lot of blind shots; one that necessitates a 100-yard tee shot to prepare for a 175-yard second shot in to the green; another 100-yard tee shot to prep for a 75-yard pitch. The course finishes with a 180-yard par three over water, which inevitably is into a good headwind. It's just one of those places that looks like they started designing the course in sequence, beginning from hole #1, and then got to #13 and say, "S@#t! How are we going to get six more holes in here?!?!"
We probably only hit from the designated tee area half the time, as they were largely dirt and littered with broken tees. Looked like only the pro and the (smoking hot) restaurant attendant were working today--it's a barebones operation.
Closer to CLE, I played Creekwood last week, which is not a overly taxing course, but is always in very respectable shape. You get some of the jort crowd out there, but I've never had a bad experience playing there. Also walked the nine on the North Olmsted Golf Club's little executive course, which is good work for one's short game and a great way to kill seventy-five minutes on a slow afternoon. That course is funny, since it's so small (short iron, then putt; short iron, then putt; etc.), but then finishes up with a legitimate golf hole that you'd find at any course on the planet. That course was also in good condition.
Hoping to also get out to Boulder Creek next week, and hopefully get down to Deer Ridge in Bellville before Labor Day. But definitely a solid round by Ones today, and a fun morning/afternoon as always!
The unlucky course that hosted us today was Raccoon Hill, in Kent. Definitely NOT for the quality of course--more since it's halfway between our residences, and had a relatively open tee sheet today. It's a flat-out easy course for most of the first twelve holes, then gets gimmicky for the remainder. A lot of blind shots; one that necessitates a 100-yard tee shot to prepare for a 175-yard second shot in to the green; another 100-yard tee shot to prep for a 75-yard pitch. The course finishes with a 180-yard par three over water, which inevitably is into a good headwind. It's just one of those places that looks like they started designing the course in sequence, beginning from hole #1, and then got to #13 and say, "S@#t! How are we going to get six more holes in here?!?!"
We probably only hit from the designated tee area half the time, as they were largely dirt and littered with broken tees. Looked like only the pro and the (smoking hot) restaurant attendant were working today--it's a barebones operation.
Closer to CLE, I played Creekwood last week, which is not a overly taxing course, but is always in very respectable shape. You get some of the jort crowd out there, but I've never had a bad experience playing there. Also walked the nine on the North Olmsted Golf Club's little executive course, which is good work for one's short game and a great way to kill seventy-five minutes on a slow afternoon. That course is funny, since it's so small (short iron, then putt; short iron, then putt; etc.), but then finishes up with a legitimate golf hole that you'd find at any course on the planet. That course was also in good condition.
Hoping to also get out to Boulder Creek next week, and hopefully get down to Deer Ridge in Bellville before Labor Day. But definitely a solid round by Ones today, and a fun morning/afternoon as always!
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111411
Moderator
Always a fun day with Myron. I think I learned some new words today.
As Myron mentioned, Raccoon is a decent layout until #13. The person that designed 13 and 14 had to have been on crack. The par 3 15th hole is normal, the 16th is completely wacky. 17 is ok, then 18 is all carry over a lake.
I wasn't notified regarding the smoking hot restaurant attendant. Myron is slipping. I figured he'd have me go in, if only to distract me from my round.
Raccoon is not a destination golf course, but the price was right, it wasn't busy, and it's not a bad drive for either of us.
Boulder will be fun, but we will have to carve out five hours for the round.
EagleGuy
Well-known member
^^^ Assume these are doglegs? Left or right? Any chance to draw or fade? My short irons are natural draws, but it sounds like you would have to duck hook (or the opposite) these holes to cut down on the second shot. Who wants to deliberately duck hook? Yikes!
clarkgriswold
Well-known member
Back in the day, Raccoon Hill was called Shawnee and was a poorly maintained pasture. You could play all day there for like $10. It's like Augusta now compared to what it was in the late 70's and early 80's. I have fond memories of playing there with my dad. Believe it or not, that dog$#!+ Z hole was actually tighter back in the day and the woods were an unkempt mess. Follow that with the right angle par 4 where the fairway slants away from you, a par three where you can't see the green and a very short tight par four that's just a slow steady curve and you have the worst 4 hole stretch in NEO.
The eighth hole on the front used to be what is now 8 and nine and a par 5. The tee of 8 was up a little from where is is now and you'd play out past the stand of trees to the right if 8 to the corner then play up to what is now 9 green. You'd then cross the road and finish with a par 3.
The eighth hole on the front used to be what is now 8 and nine and a par 5. The tee of 8 was up a little from where is is now and you'd play out past the stand of trees to the right if 8 to the corner then play up to what is now 9 green. You'd then cross the road and finish with a par 3.
111411
Moderator
13 is over a lake, then doglegs to the left. A 175 yard shot will then force you to hit your ball right. So, dogleg left, then dogleg right, to a small green.
14 is a sharp dogleg to the right. Everything is blind.
16 is about 140 out, then a dogleg right, to a small green.
Those three holes are just completely ignorant.
EagleGuy
Well-known member
Damn. Harvest the trees, plan and re-build those holes! Oh, money.....
Have to ask dad if he played that course when in college.
Dogleggs right, one severe, the other about 45-degree angle. Both real tough fades, though Ones did that on the 175-yard version once.
Clark: That’s fascinating about the old #8–thanks for the insight. I have a tough time visualizing where that par-three #9 would fit. Along #10’s tee box?
111411
Moderator
Speaking of Kent/Stow area courses, I really like Fox Den, though it's pretty pricey, always full, and they pair you up, which I never liked.
4 or 5 years ago, at Fox, Myron, my cousin, and I were playing it on a chilly day in April. As we came in on 9, there was what we figured to be a calendar shoot. A scantily clad, beautiful woman was being photographed. Needless to say, the three of us were distracted on the back nine. Unfortunately, they were gone when we finished up.
4 or 5 years ago, at Fox, Myron, my cousin, and I were playing it on a chilly day in April. As we came in on 9, there was what we figured to be a calendar shoot. A scantily clad, beautiful woman was being photographed. Needless to say, the three of us were distracted on the back nine. Unfortunately, they were gone when we finished up.
clarkgriswold
Well-known member
The par 3 that was number 9 ran parallel to the current 9 across the road (the road that runs into the road between 1 and 2 to make the T intersection).
ah, the putting green now—makes sense. Thanks!
Auggie
Well-known member
Interesting talk on course architecture. It is not as easy as you think and many different aspects must be considered when designing a layout and they are all not related to golf. When I was caddying I found a book on golf course architecture 101 and I remember a couple key points>
- It all starts with the green. Too many amateur architects start with the routing and then find out that the green really doesn't work either with the flow of the hole or the land is really not acceptable for a green structure.
- Keep it simple and focused; crazy holes are just that, crazy holes. Most of the greatest holes in golf are just right there in front of the player and it uses the natural flow of the terrain create the hole and not some crazy routing or silly man made hazards.
- Plan a course for enjoyment of the game and not a PGA tournament. Not every par 4 needs to be 450+ yards, add birdie holes and try to design a course where golfers of all levels will use every club in the bag.
- It all starts with the green. Too many amateur architects start with the routing and then find out that the green really doesn't work either with the flow of the hole or the land is really not acceptable for a green structure.
- Keep it simple and focused; crazy holes are just that, crazy holes. Most of the greatest holes in golf are just right there in front of the player and it uses the natural flow of the terrain create the hole and not some crazy routing or silly man made hazards.
- Plan a course for enjoyment of the game and not a PGA tournament. Not every par 4 needs to be 450+ yards, add birdie holes and try to design a course where golfers of all levels will use every club in the bag.
clarkgriswold
Well-known member
Yes, they use it as a practice area now.
EagleGuy
Well-known member
Great points.
When I was young I did something similar. I ordered a USGA (?) publication that told the cost to build a course. iirc, greens (at that time) cost about 50k each to build and an entire course ~2mil.
Of course, if you could do the work yourself - as one local landscaping company did - that cost could be cut significantly.
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We went to Kendall Ledges in the CVNP area yesterday, and drove by an old favorite of this long-standing Yappi thread: Brandywine. I wasn’t sure how far down the road it was, but my wife and son recognized that it used to be a golf course right away, though the National Park vegetation has definitely conquered what used to be a golf course. The clubhouse looks totally dilapidated (as one would expect) after years of abandonment. The par-three was also extinct, and—somewhat eerily—there were six cars parked outside the old clubhouse. I’m assuming hikers. Hopefully not anyone who died on the premises (see next paragraph) or in said clubhouse.
i probably played there ten times over This century, either with Ones or coworkers. Interesting memories:
*Always hitting two shots on that 80-foot high tee box for #15 par-three. Highlight of the round was the Russian Roulette of where your ball would land.
*The infamous uncuttable Z-hole par-5 #16.
*Ones and I paired up with a couple guys from the nether reaches of rural Summitt County. A gold-chain-wearing, ‘wife-beater’ tee and jorts wearing, brash cat that we just refer to as Guido. Big talking about his game; stroked his tee shot on #1, and that was his highlight reel, other than his cursing and braggadocio (and ensuing rationalizations that “I’ve NEVER played this bad!”). A long afternoon.
*The sheer Deliverance-induced terror of playing that isolated back nine on a non-crowded day. If ever one longed for a full tee sheet, it was for the ‘safety-in-numbers’ feeling to live (literally) through that weird back nine With the foreboding woods and landscape.
*A coworker’s friend chucking his three-wood in frustration into thick brush and fescue somewhere in that back nine. No big deal—he only relied on the three since he couldn’t hit driver. So his round continued on the arc of the aforementioned Guido.
I know we have a lot of Akron-area guys following this thread. I’m sure this course conjures up some good and bad memories!
i probably played there ten times over This century, either with Ones or coworkers. Interesting memories:
*Always hitting two shots on that 80-foot high tee box for #15 par-three. Highlight of the round was the Russian Roulette of where your ball would land.
*The infamous uncuttable Z-hole par-5 #16.
*Ones and I paired up with a couple guys from the nether reaches of rural Summitt County. A gold-chain-wearing, ‘wife-beater’ tee and jorts wearing, brash cat that we just refer to as Guido. Big talking about his game; stroked his tee shot on #1, and that was his highlight reel, other than his cursing and braggadocio (and ensuing rationalizations that “I’ve NEVER played this bad!”). A long afternoon.
*The sheer Deliverance-induced terror of playing that isolated back nine on a non-crowded day. If ever one longed for a full tee sheet, it was for the ‘safety-in-numbers’ feeling to live (literally) through that weird back nine With the foreboding woods and landscape.
*A coworker’s friend chucking his three-wood in frustration into thick brush and fescue somewhere in that back nine. No big deal—he only relied on the three since he couldn’t hit driver. So his round continued on the arc of the aforementioned Guido.
I know we have a lot of Akron-area guys following this thread. I’m sure this course conjures up some good and bad memories!
111411
Moderator
Ahhhh, Brandywine...........
#15- what a crap shoot! An unreal hole. I remember teeing off from a mat.
#16- enough said
Guido, which we now use to describe underdressed, loud, poor golfing gentlemen that haunt our courses. THIS was the original Guido. I'm actually surprised that he could swing, given how many gold chains he was wearing. We almost forgot the chest and armpit hair that was sticking out of his wife-beater. Not a pretty sight.
The back nine- we half expected Gomer and Goober coming out the woods, attempting to take us for their brides.
Well, former fans of Brandywine, have at it.
clarkgriswold
Well-known member
This was the end of Brandywine. Crazy story-
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I played another awful round Tuesday. One of my worst in years. The clubs have been placed in protective custody in the basement. I get only supervised visitation for a couple of weeks to insure their safety.
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I played another awful round Tuesday. One of my worst in years. The clubs have been placed in protective custody in the basement. I get only supervised visitation for a couple of weeks to insure their safety.
This was the end of Brandywine. Crazy story-
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I played another awful round Tuesday. One of my worst in years. The clubs have been placed in protective custody in the basement. I get only supervised visitation for a couple of weeks to insure their safety.
Wow! What a chaotic life for that young man. Thanks for the background, Clark.
Yeh, take a vacation from the clubs for a couple weeks; then, get out and I’m sure you’ll play great after the lay-off