Price of EGGS, WTH is going on

Tesoro said:
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EL Lavy and sons. Know them well. Lonnie, Lowel, Larry, Lynn. We grew up together and attended same church.

Now here is the funny part as it relates to the conversation. They do not seem like the most stable operation to me. And 4.4 million doesn't go very far today, at least not when you have 5 families involved in one enterprise and farm 5,000 acres for the last 30 years. That is 150,000 of planted acres over 30 years.

Since you brought them up I will use them as the example. They live very modest lives by most peoples standards. Living in old homes that are nicely remodeled but worth approximately $300,000 in most cases, so really an average home (heard this week on a radio program $350,000 is national average.

If crop land value does not keep pace with other investments crop land will be sold for housing .

If farmers can't make a decent living farming, they will go do something else . I decided to throw in the towel this year as government subsidies are just not making the purchase of $500,000 combine, $300,000 tractors and $200,000 trucks worth it. I will focus on my non subsidized businesses that earn closer to 40% net of gross vs farming that only returns about 12% net of gross over the last 30 years.

The farms I've purchased were paid for by business other than farming. Sure, some large farmers who are technologically savvy are turning 20% net on their gross dollars, and can buy land, but they are the exception. Ten years from now that $25,000 land will look like a bargain. Heck, only three years ago you and I were having this exact conversation and land was $12,000 -$15,000/ acre. I snatched up a farm for $13,500/acre and sweated it for awhile, but now it seems cheap after a 40% inflationary period.
 
D4fan said:
EL Lavy and sons. Know them well. Lonnie, Lowel, Larry, Lynn. We grew up together and attended same church.

Now here is the funny part as it relates to the conversation. They do not seem like the most stable operation to me. And 4.4 million doesn't go very far today, at least not when you have 5 families involved in one enterprise and farm 5,000 acres for the last 30 years. That is 150,000 of planted acres over 30 years.

Since you brought them up I will use them as the example. They live very modest lives by most peoples standards. Living in old homes that are nicely remodeled but worth approximately $300,000 in most cases, so really an average home (heard this week on a radio program $350,000 is national average.

If crop land value does not keep pace with other investments crop land will be sold for housing .

If farmers can't make a decent living farming, they will go do something else . I decided to throw in the towel this year as government subsidies are just not making the purchase of $500,000 combine, $300,000 tractors and $200,000 trucks worth it. I will focus on my non subsidized businesses that earn closer to 40% net of gross vs farming that only returns about 12% net of gross over the last 30 years.

The farms I've purchased were paid for by business other than farming. Sure, some large farmers who are technologically savvy are turning 20% net on their gross dollars, and can buy land, but they are the exception. Ten years from now that $25,000 land will look like a bargain. Heck, only three years ago you and I were having this exact conversation and land was $12,000 -$15,000/ acre. I snatched up a farm for $13,500/acre and sweated it for awhile, but now it seems cheap after a 40% inflationary period.
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I just randomly picked a page. Where do those guys farm?

still makes zero sense to subsidize a farmer. Only thing I can figure is the government wants land values to rise so more local real estate taxes are collected. We recently had 130 acres sell for $25,900 an acre.. bare… not so good land.
 
Tesoro said:
I just randomly picked a page. Where do those guys farm?

still makes zero sense to subsidize a farmer. Only thing I can figure is the government wants land values to rise so more local real estate taxes are collected. We recently had 130 acres sell for $25,900 an acre.. bare… not so good land.
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They farm primarily Miami County from Pleasant Hill where they used to have a dairy to Piqua then East to Clark county where they have had large contract pig operations.

Why the subsidies. I will give the short answer to why I believe they are necessary and essential. There is a huge difference between wages in the United States and wages in Brazil or China. So in order to keep our agriculture industry turning out product it will have to be subsidized to help keep costs down to compete in the world market. Basically we are buying bushels to trade on the world market by subsidizing commodities.

The other MAJOR factor that comes into play is revenue . Since the farmer is at the total mercy of nature providing water to grow his crop, yield can vary tremendously from one spot to another. So county averaging and revenue protection systems were developed (ARC) to eliminate risk. A huge portion of the money paid out was in 1998 -2007 when average prices were at historic lows and farmers recieved what they called LDP's or Loan Deficiency Payments. As the name suggests, without the payment, most farmers would have went belly up. In the 25 years I farmed in a serious manner ( 41 years altogether) I lost money even with subsidies 3 years, and 6 years a showed a profit but every dime of profit could be accounted for with government payments. So,I believe I am an above average operator, and can say 9of 25 years I would have shown zero profit without government payments, and over the 25 years my profits for farming were about 66% from government payments.

It is not going to work to have farmers competitively produce crops without a saftey net. I have had years where we got 7 bushel beans (2002 drought) and years where I got 80 bushel beans @ $12.50/ bushel and still recieved some government payments.

Overall though, about every ten years the price of farmland must double or we are going to see farmers sell out to their local home builders and put the money remaining after taxes in a cash account invested in the S&P 500 or similar. No worries, no management, no exposure to liability, just a solid 8-12% return. Farming currently is a 2-3% annual return via land lease agreements and 5-7% deferred income realized when sold. But, you lose your last years appreciation to the realator, and run risk of your lease agreement failing and not getting paid at least for half a years rent.
 
D4fan said:
They farm primarily Miami County from Pleasant Hill where they used to have a dairy to Piqua then East to Clark county where they have had large contract pig operations.

Why the subsidies. I will give the short answer to why I believe they are necessary and essential. There is a huge difference between wages in the United States and wages in Brazil or China. So in order to keep our agriculture industry turning out product it will have to be subsidized to help keep costs down to compete in the world market. Basically we are buying bushels to trade on the world market by subsidizing commodities.

The other MAJOR factor that comes into play is revenue . Since the farmer is at the total mercy of nature providing water to grow his crop, yield can vary tremendously from one spot to another. So county averaging and revenue protection systems were developed (ARC) to eliminate risk. A huge portion of the money paid out was in 1998 -2007 when average prices were at historic lows and farmers recieved what they called LDP's or Loan Deficiency Payments. As the name suggests, without the payment, most farmers would have went belly up. In the 25 years I farmed in a serious manner ( 41 years altogether) I lost money even with subsidies 3 years, and 6 years a showed a profit but every dime of profit could be accounted for with government payments. So,I believe I am an above average operator, and can say 9of 25 years I would have shown zero profit without government payments, and over the 25 years my profits for farming were about 66% from government payments.

It is not going to work to have farmers competitively produce crops without a saftey net. I have had years where we got 7 bushel beans (2002 drought) and years where I got 80 bushel beans @ $12.50/ bushel and still recieved some government payments.

Overall though, about every ten years the price of farmland must double or we are going to see farmers sell out to their local home builders and put the money remaining after taxes in a cash account invested in the S&P 500 or similar. No worries, no management, no exposure to liability, just a solid 8-12% return. Farming currently is a 2-3% annual return via land lease agreements and 5-7% deferred income realized when sold. But, you lose your last years appreciation to the realator, and run risk of your lease agreement failing and not getting paid at least for half a years rent.
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Here's an idea,,,,maybe they should pay less for ground...then they would have lower input cost and would make more money
 
PantherProud said:
Unrelated to Eggs but we were at Chuy’s yesterday and there was a $3.49 “Food Tax”.
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You mean they added a separate fee in addition to sales tax?

I read somewhere they were planning to hike their prices this month. Must be too lazy to change item costs on their menus.
 
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Indiandad said:
Cage free laws have zero to do with the price of eggs in Ohio.
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BS cage free eggs are more expensive than "caged" eggs. More chix farmers that have to raise cage free eggs force the price of all eggs to go up. Less supply of caged eggs means higher prices, not the reason for the current spike but it does influence the overall price of eggs.
 
Stirred not Shaken said:
BS cage free eggs are more expensive than "caged" eggs. More chix farmers that have to raise cage free eggs force the price of all eggs to go up. Less supply of caged eggs means higher prices, not the reason for the current spike but it does influence the overall price of eggs.
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You are completely wrong... but I'm not surprised.

It's like saying a mustang convertible cost what it does because of so many trucks being made.

Cage free eggs play in a completely different market.
 
Zunardo said:
You mean they added a separate fee in addition to sales tax?

I read somewhere they were planning to hike their prices this month. Must be too lazy to change item costs on their menus.
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the weird thing is that there WAS NO Sales Tax, which is why I didn’t argue it. In the end I was only paying an extra $1.50 maybe, which wasn’t worth arguing over considering we had very good service and also ate our weight in free chips.
 
PantherProud said:
the weird thing is that there WAS NO Sales Tax, which is why I didn’t argue it. In the end I was only paying an extra $1.50 maybe, which wasn’t worth arguing over considering we had very good service and also ate our weight in free chips.
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Guess I need to go there with some friends and run up a $50 or more tab before they change that, lol.

Been to Chuy's 3 or 4 times. Food's okay, just not a lot of variety. But man, that salsa is like crack. Amazing.
 
LICKING COUNTY FAN said:
Why haven't liquid eggs gone up?
This a question the chef asked yesterday that nobody has an answer for.
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Not sure where you get your liquid eggs? From the wholesale side liquid, powdered and frozen have all went up proportional to each other and shell egg pricing. Frozen whites were as low as 30 cents /lb just a few years ago. Average over 10 years is about 60 cents per lb. Today, prices are over $3.00 /lb if you can get them. So for a 30 lb frozen bucket of egg whites, that cost $9.00 a few years back, and $18.00 on ten year average, we are seeing $90.00 today. A 50 lb box of powdered egg whites is over $900 . They are about a 9:1 ratio to liquid.
 
bigkat said:
just went in to the local iga store and i saw the price for 18 eggs at $9.99 and a dozen at $6.98...
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It's DONALD TRUMP'S FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But SERIOUSLY, the day Trump left office, gas in my lil town was $1.85. Twenty four hours later, it was $2.25 and rising. THIS, after Comrade Joe stopped construction on the Keystone Excel Pipeline, causing 20,000 pipeline workers to lose their jobs. And subsequently, two entire towns along the pipeline ceased to exist. Biden SAID that those jobs would be replaced with green energy employment. Those people are STILL waiting.

NOW, to the good part. Due to the pipeline being cut off. Oil became in short supply. Necessitating the need to buy our oil from RUSSIA to make up for the shortfall, at a much higher cost. And NOW, due to the border problems in Europe, those oil supplies are drying up. That brings us to the depletion of the strategic oil reserves, which the US only uses in time of crisis. THAT being the reason why gas prices have somewhat, during the past few months, come down. BUT, as the reserve diminishes, prices will begin to rise yet again. And prediction of $7.00-$10.00 per gallon are in the forecast. Thereby raising prices on EVERYTHING, far more than we currently have, due to these rising fuel prices. Which are passed on to the consumer through rising prices on eggs, milk, and EVERYTHING ELSE! So, STAY TUNED!!! Cause you ain't seen NOTHING, YET!
 
D4fan said:
Not sure where you get your liquid eggs? From the wholesale side liquid, powdered and frozen have all went up proportional to each other and shell egg pricing. Frozen whites were as low as 30 cents /lb just a few years ago. Average over 10 years is about 60 cents per lb. Today, prices are over $3.00 /lb if you can get them. So for a 30 lb frozen bucket of egg whites, that cost $9.00 a few years back, and $18.00 on ten year average, we are seeing $90.00 today. A 50 lb box of powdered egg whites is over $900 . They are about a 9:1 ratio to liquid.
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But at LEAST, according to the government, we only have EIGHT percent inflation!!!
 
Indiandad said:
You are completely wrong... but I'm not surprised.

It's like saying a mustang convertible cost what it does because of so many trucks being made.

Cage free eggs play in a completely different market.
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Yes you are the only expert and one thing I have found out in my old age people who consider themselves experts are usually wrong. California (10th largest egg producing state in the country), I believe produces only cage free eggs (more expensive operation) if those eggs were all caged eggs and put on the market as such overall cost of eggs would likely be cheaper. Egg prices though will be dropping as wholesale prices are falling.
 
D4fan said:
They farm primarily Miami County from Pleasant Hill where they used to have a dairy to Piqua then East to Clark county where they have had large contract pig operations.

Why the subsidies. I will give the short answer to why I believe they are necessary and essential. There is a huge difference between wages in the United States and wages in Brazil or China. So in order to keep our agriculture industry turning out product it will have to be subsidized to help keep costs down to compete in the world market. Basically we are buying bushels to trade on the world market by subsidizing commodities.

The other MAJOR factor that comes into play is revenue . Since the farmer is at the total mercy of nature providing water to grow his crop, yield can vary tremendously from one spot to another. So county averaging and revenue protection systems were developed (ARC) to eliminate risk. A huge portion of the money paid out was in 1998 -2007 when average prices were at historic lows and farmers recieved what they called LDP's or Loan Deficiency Payments. As the name suggests, without the payment, most farmers would have went belly up. In the 25 years I farmed in a serious manner ( 41 years altogether) I lost money even with subsidies 3 years, and 6 years a showed a profit but every dime of profit could be accounted for with government payments. So,I believe I am an above average operator, and can say 9of 25 years I would have shown zero profit without government payments, and over the 25 years my profits for farming were about 66% from government payments.

It is not going to work to have farmers competitively produce crops without a saftey net. I have had years where we got 7 bushel beans (2002 drought) and years where I got 80 bushel beans @ $12.50/ bushel and still recieved some government payments.

Overall though, about every ten years the price of farmland must double or we are going to see farmers sell out to their local home builders and put the money remaining after taxes in a cash account invested in the S&P 500 or similar. No worries, no management, no exposure to liability, just a solid 8-12% return. Farming currently is a 2-3% annual return via land lease agreements and 5-7% deferred income realized when sold. But, you lose your last years appreciation to the realator, and run risk of your lease agreement failing and not getting paid at least for half a years rent.
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I am all for farming, but farmers expect to double their profits every 6 - 7 years, they are not hurting for money which is a good thing. I know a farmer who has a relatively small operation and he got 20000 dollars from the PPP rip off program even though he said his farming was not affected by covid one bit. If you are all for farm subsidies than don't complain about other groups that are subsidized by big brother.
 
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