PA changes weight classes!

 
I don't like the idea of dropping a weight class. It would be different if they shifted weights around. Just My Thoughts !
 
It might be a good idea to answer the tie breaker and maybe forfeit (s) issue, but with proverty growing kids aren't looking at wrestling to help mom put food on the table. Fewer 2nd generation guys are stepping out on the mat also. Numbers will keep falling.
 
I know I am not the majority but I think this is what the sport needs. There are less kids involved (families are smaller now also) and no reason to continue on this path of so many weight classes. Ok, it eliminates 2 official spots, one of varsity level and one at the JV level. So?? Some say it's opportunities gone but I say it is a needed change. Once again, Just my 2 cents.
 
Coach McCoy said:
I know I am not the majority but I think this is what the sport needs. There are less kids involved (families are smaller now also) and no reason to continue on this path of so many weight classes. Ok, it eliminates 2 official spots, one of varsity level and one at the JV level. So?? Some say it's opportunities gone but I say it is a needed change. Once again, Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...
Being even more brutally realistic, very few teams I see field a 14 man varsity line up.
Many have as few as 7 to 10 wrestlers.
They sure as heck are not fielding a JV team.
IMO, Coach McCoy is spot on.
 
Again, I think it’s a bad move. I love it the way it is, and feel it is best for the sport and the kids.
But, if it comes to this, then, IMO...
make it coincide with college weights more closely.
Get rid of the predominantly freshman and sophomore weight class of 106.
Data that I’ve seen (sectional entry grids) point to this being the least populated weight anyway.
Maybe something like this, or very close to it.
112, 119, 126, 133, 140, 147, 155, 164, 174, 185, 198, 220, 285
College weights:
125, 133, 141, 149, 157, 165, 174, 184, 197, 285
College jumps 8 lbs thru half the classes, then 9 lbs, 10 lbs, 13 lbs, then hwt.
High school can jump 7 lbs, then 8 lbs, 9 lbs, etc.
 
WishYouWereHere said:
Again, I think it’s a bad move. I love it the way it is, and feel it is best for the sport and the kids.
But, if it comes to this, then, IMO...
make it coincide with college weights more closely.
Get rid of the predominantly freshman and sophomore weight class of 106.
Data that I’ve seen (sectional entry grids) point to this being the least populated weight anyway.
Maybe something like this, or very close to it.
112, 119, 126, 133, 140, 147, 155, 164, 174, 185, 198, 220, 285
College weights:
125, 133, 141, 149, 157, 165, 174, 184, 197, 285
College jumps 8 lbs thru half the classes, then 9 lbs, 10 lbs, 13 lbs, then hwt.
High school can jump 7 lbs, then 8 lbs, 9 lbs, etc.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with your weights as stated. I do think 106 should be gone. But the argument would be that the little guys in school don't have a weight class. Wrestling has always been a sport that size does not matter.

Coach McCoy
 
Coach McCoy said:
I know I am not the majority but I think this is what the sport needs. There are less kids involved (families are smaller now also) and no reason to continue on this path of so many weight classes. Ok, it eliminates 2 official spots, one of varsity level and one at the JV level. So?? Some say it's opportunities gone but I say it is a needed change. Once again, Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

I actually believe 11 weights is where the sport needs to go, which I know most people think is crazy. 11 comes from the desire to have an odd number for dual meet tiebreaker criteria while also consolidating the sport. Sometimes you need to consolidate to better operate and this is the situation for wrestling right now.

The sport for too long has prioritized the elite at such an extreme level it has killed off a lot of the depth in the sport, which we do need to sustain. It seems today that the sport has stigmatized being on JV at a level not really seen in other sports. I have seen many kids quit as they get into their junior year if they can't crack the varsity line-up and while this route doesn't make it any easier, it may help them find more pride in being on a JV squad. Either way, we need more depth and if we can't achieve that through more bodies then we need to artificially create it through consolidation.

In a way, we sacrifice a lot of our depth in the sport in the pursuit of providing for the elite kids. Wrestling is weird in that there is almost an expectation of our elite guys to be state placers as a freshman, which is again, kind of a weird phenomenon of wrestling, and to an extent other Olympic sports. We schedule a bunch of tournaments to get those elite kids matches, often because dual and tri-meets have too many forfeits with no guarantee your best guys even get matches. The irony of the whole thing is the pivot to more tournaments is another of the many reasons kids/families struggle to come into the sport. 14 hour days in gyms, or for many new kids who go 2 and out 5 hour days, does not create the excitement or interest to hold them long term.

If the commonly held belief that dual meets are needed to sustain and revive the sport then we need those duals to be wrestled with full line ups. By consolidating we are more likely to see full lineups by both squads and in turn more competitive and exciting dual meets. It also pushes other guys down to the next tiers, which in turn creates more competitive and entertaining events at those levels. For a new kid/family in the sport on JV, or the freshman squad, going to a mid-week dual where half or more of the matches are forfeits gives a less than desirable impression of the sport.

I already know many of the responses will be "it's the coach's job to recruit" or "it's the coach's job to make the JV guys happy to be there", which I agree with completely. I would counter with the fact the sport as a whole is hemorrhaging and coaches have been doing these things to the best of there ability on the whole for a while now. Others will say, "But I at (insert small school) have great numbers, why should we take spots from them?", to which I would respond that if something doesn't change future kids won't have spots at all.

TL;DR: Cut down to 11 weights to make the dual meet environment healthier and to build better depth and numbers in the sport.
 
OH should used PA's approach as it is. No need to reinvent the wheel and change every weight class. Eliminate 1 upper weight and make the slight adjustments PA has and move on. Simple, subtle and perfectly acceptable.

To Coach McCoy's point about numbers going down, think about how much lower some numbers may be depending on what does/doesn't happen this winter with the virus.

As for eliminating 106, I think that's a critical weight class to keep to continue attracting JRHS kids to the sport. Countless wrestlers in that weight class may be either 1st or 2nd year wrestlers and without 106, they not only aren't wrestling, they may not even be participating in any sport.
 
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MitSulHer said:
Why not 14 for post season tournament and less for duals? Say 11-12 for a dual.
Click to expand...

I wish I could understand why this keeps coming up. Maybe I am just dense but people can't even agree on the proper number of weight classes or what those classes should be as it is now. There is virtually zero chance that they could ever agree on what the weight class differences should be between duals and tournaments. No matter how you do it, someone gets squeezed out.
How do you keep kids interested in practicing when they know they won't be starting in a dual that is coming up? The could be due to the fact that their weight isn't right for it or that they can't beat out Johnny (or Sally) for the spot. Why would they continue?
As I stated above, many schools can't even field 11 or 12 wrestlers for their team. Why would they bother going to a tournament where 14 classes are being wrestled?
You say "post season". What about in season tournaments? What are you doing with them?
This idea just strikes me as a giant headache for coaches and administrators. I believe we, as the wrestling community, need to make things easier to understand, not more difficult.
 
Allow 2 kids from the same team wrestle in most regular season AND all sectional tournaments.
I believe this will keep kids interested and keep them on the team.
Regular season and sectionals will be affected, but districts and state will have the same number of wrestlers as before.
It’ll be full sectional brackets again!!!
There are issues involved here that I’ve already thought of (not gonna list them), but this fixes the JV stigma.
 
Suplexer130 said:
I actually believe 11 weights is where the sport needs to go, which I know most people think is crazy. 11 comes from the desire to have an odd number for dual meet tiebreaker criteria while also consolidating the sport. Sometimes you need to consolidate to better operate and this is the situation for wrestling right now.

The sport for too long has prioritized the elite at such an extreme level it has killed off a lot of the depth in the sport, which we do need to sustain. It seems today that the sport has stigmatized being on JV at a level not really seen in other sports. I have seen many kids quit as they get into their junior year if they can't crack the varsity line-up and while this route doesn't make it any easier, it may help them find more pride in being on a JV squad. Either way, we need more depth and if we can't achieve that through more bodies then we need to artificially create it through consolidation.

In a way, we sacrifice a lot of our depth in the sport in the pursuit of providing for the elite kids. Wrestling is weird in that there is almost an expectation of our elite guys to be state placers as a freshman, which is again, kind of a weird phenomenon of wrestling, and to an extent other Olympic sports. We schedule a bunch of tournaments to get those elite kids matches, often because dual and tri-meets have too many forfeits with no guarantee your best guys even get matches. The irony of the whole thing is the pivot to more tournaments is another of the many reasons kids/families struggle to come into the sport. 14 hour days in gyms, or for many new kids who go 2 and out 5 hour days, does not create the excitement or interest to hold them long term.

If the commonly held belief that dual meets are needed to sustain and revive the sport then we need those duals to be wrestled with full line ups. By consolidating we are more likely to see full lineups by both squads and in turn more competitive and exciting dual meets. It also pushes other guys down to the next tiers, which in turn creates more competitive and entertaining events at those levels. For a new kid/family in the sport on JV, or the freshman squad, going to a mid-week dual where half or more of the matches are forfeits gives a less than desirable impression of the sport.

I already know many of the responses will be "it's the coach's job to recruit" or "it's the coach's job to make the JV guys happy to be there", which I agree with completely. I would counter with the fact the sport as a whole is hemorrhaging and coaches have been doing these things to the best of there ability on the whole for a while now. Others will say, "But I at (insert small school) have great numbers, why should we take spots from them?", to which I would respond that if something doesn't change future kids won't have spots at all.

TL;DR: Cut down to 11 weights to make the dual meet environment healthier and to build better depth and numbers in the sport.
Click to expand...

Sup,

Well said and agree totally!! We are headed in the wrong direction if we continue on this path, Just my opinion. I am ok with 11.
 
11 weight classes :
Can’t even fathom it!!! Someone’s gonna lose out big time. The big 200+ lbs seniors that would’ve placed at state, or the little freshman that can’t beat out the 113 lb’er because he really only weighs 99 lbs. And about 15 to 20 kids in there that would’ve placed, but were in between weights and couldn’t find a natural weight.

12 weight classes :
113, 121, 128, 134, 140, 147, 155, 164, 174, 186, 199, 285

13 weight classes :
Listed above.^^^

14 weight classes :
Ideal.

1986 weights (13 weights)
98, 105, 112, 119, 126, 132, 138, 145, 155, 167, 175, 185, hwt.

1996 weights (14 weights)
103, 112, 119, 125, 130, 135, 140, 145, 152, 160, 171, 189, 215, 275

I know that I’m just entertaining myself with all these numbers and I do respect all of your opinions, I just refuse to agree with lowering the number of classes.
Have a good day guys.
 
Kind of weird they wouldnt shift the first 9 weights around a little....

cant tell you how many times we go to pool tournaments and 106/113 get combined or 113/120 but there are 26 kids in 5 pools for 160 and 170
 
The problem is getting all states to agree based on NFHS guidelines. I know states CAN do their own thing, but is it best to depart? Different states and areas have different issues with filling weight classes. Our season tournaments have full 106/113 pools/brackets, but empty upper weights. tons of 195-220-285 forfeits/byes.
 
WishYouWereHere said:
Allow 2 kids from the same team wrestle in most regular season AND all sectional tournaments.
I believe this will keep kids interested and keep them on the team.
Regular season and sectionals will be affected, but districts and state will have the same number of wrestlers as before.
It’ll be full sectional brackets again!!!
There are issues involved here that I’ve already thought of (not gonna list them), but this fixes the JV stigma.
Click to expand...

Something like that has to be done. Lose a lot of upper classmen if they can't break into the varsity line up. Also pushes for drastic weight cuts.
 
The new ones are 102, 110, 118,126, 132, 138, 145, 152, 160, 172, 189, 215, 285.

The issue was sparked by the difficulty some smaller schools were having fielding full teams, especially at the lower weights. Those squads were forced to start meets already down six points per forfeited weight class.
 
Thought I would campare to when I was in high school and there were 13 weights. I can remember that far back and who was in each weight class for us and our rivals at Cardinal Stritch (which no longer has a program). There was a 98 pound class and that was when freshman did not wrestle in high school (still considered junior high then). We had one of the bigger heavyweights (who later became an all-Big 10 conference center at Illinois) - and he was only 6-3 and 235.

Old Pa
98 ---
105 106
112 113
119 120
126 126
132 132
138 138
145 145
155 152
167 160
175 172
185 189
---- 215
Unlmtd 285
 
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