Ohsaa?

We are systematically crushing the spirit of those who have no meaningful risk from being infected with Covid. Why?
If asking our children to sacrifice some wrestling matches, because we want to limit the transmission of a disease that is killing thousands, is systematically crushing their spirit, then we've really failed in much more important areas with our kids. Sometimes it's not just about you, you sacrifice to protect others. Just my two cents.
 
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Cjlewis01

Active member
How hard would it be to have a John Doe death count?
Age
Sex
Pre existing condition
Bodymass ---were they obese?

Wouldn't those statistics paint a picture? The whole situation is tactical imo. It's all or nothing with no honesty. Covid is here and that's not going to change. The only thing we control is ourselves. I don't criticize any individual for taking any precaution they deem necessary. But, that door should swing both ways.

Everyone is an individual with rights. I don't feel a person should be made to wear a mask in public areas. But, I believe that right stops there. Any place of business has the right to mandate mask. They own the building and make the rules. Now the tricky part for me. What are the powers of Government? Can our government legally mandate mask at this time? There are arguments on both sides and data to prove each sides arguments. I don't believe Government has that right. Imo If you believe in mask wear them. Respect those that don't.

Now on to young people. How long do we expect them to sacrifice? Should they sacrifice for a small minority of the population? I am closing in on 60 years of age. I have busted my to stay fit, eat a very reasonable diet and stay on top of my health. Would I survive Covid? Hell, I don't know. I might of had the Virus already. I could still die from Covid. I will not live in fear of death and will live as I see fit. If you are in an at risk category take responsibility. The point of this ramble is about the spirit of youth. We are systematically crushing the spirit of those who have no meaningful risk from being infected with Covid. Why?

I love the sport of wrestling and I personally see no risk for any wrestlers. That's how I feel, but to be honest it doesn't matter one bit. It should matter how the wrestlers feel. Parents play a role with minors. Who are we to stop the youth from competition? And yes I am pissed !!!!!
I feel very similar.

There are ways to show the data in more detail, but it's a pain to find right now.

Easy things for people to look up.

Look up our states data without Cuyahoga and Franklin County.

I've said previously deaths per 100,000

DO NOT LOOK AT CUMULATIVE DATA

Look at positive testing percentage. We are testing more than ever.

Look at total current hospitalizations and icu
 

Gabe.Applegate

New member
If asking our children to sacrifice some wrestling matches, because we want to limit the transmission of a disease that is killing thousands, is systematically crushing their spirit, then we've really failed in much more important areas with our kids. Sometimes it's not just about you, you sacrifice to protect others. Just my two cents.
For which causes of death should our kids sacrifice? All of them? Just COVID-19? Anything with a death count equal to or above COVID-19? Maybe you haven't seen how much heart these kids put into this sport.

From what I've seen, kids don't transmit COVID-19 to other people because kids aren't infected badly enough to be contagious. If more heavily infected adults are the ones spreading COVID-19 and not kids, then you're talking about sacrifices made in vain.
 
From what I've seen, kids don't transmit COVID-19 to other people because kids aren't infected badly enough to be contagious.
From what you've seen? How old do kids have to be to spread the disease like adults...16, 17, 18? What is the magic age that transmission begins? I've been involved in the sport for decades. I've seen plenty of kids put there all into the sport. It is still just a wrestling match. Wrestling does not define your character or who you are. There are many things that are a higher priority. If we can't teach our kids to sacrifice something like this for the good of others we need to reevaluate some things. I want to see a season as much as anyone but if we have to risk the lives of coaches, parents, fans, referees, or even a miniscule number of wrestlers we need to wait.
 

Gabe.Applegate

New member
From what you've seen? ...if we have to risk the lives of coaches, parents, fans, referees, or even a miniscule number of wrestlers we need to wait.
Yes - from what I have seen. My personal experience was the only reason I chimed in on this thread. Early research supports my personal experience.
COVID-19 in schools – the experience in NSW

We don't have to risk any lives - "risk[ing] the lives of [people]" is greatly overstating the situation. Statistically, I would venture that wrestlers pose a much greater threat to society when they get behind the wheel of a car or when their parents put a vehicle on the road to take them to practice.
 

Cjlewis01

Active member
Interesting articles that should be looked at, especially if concerned about your children in school this year.

Note: these are research articles. They are not news articles so they are dry reads.




Also this... https://www.popsci.com/story/health/covid-roundup-720/

Point being, we don't know for sure about anything yet, but it is good to get information and keep abreast as further research fleshes out science's understanding.
 

Cjlewis01

Active member
Also this... https://www.popsci.com/story/health/covid-roundup-720/

Point being, we don't know for sure about anything yet, but it is good to get information and keep abreast as further research fleshes out science's understanding.
Im not trying to be rude but have you read the study?

The article in general is filled with questionable statements. Most researh states that reinvention at this time is more likely due to a false positive or that they hadn't fully shed the virus.

There's a reason why I post research versus news articles. No slant, peer review.

This study was regarding household transmission. I believe school was already closed. (I could be wrong, ill reread the study again later)

The contention in research going forward should be in a school setting with precautions in place. Asymptomatic transmission is less likely(not impossible). I believe all schools will be doing temp checks upon entry. Masks on busses, social distancing.

I teach. I have children. I want to be back in the classroom despite being relatively skilled at a flipped classroom model I've been using for years now. My children want to be back in school.

General advice for all... when researching, look for both sides, follow the research. The more an article is cited is a good indicator of credibility. Check their sources.

It is 100 percent possible I'm wrong. But I think the more research done shows I'm not.
 

pheesh

Active member
Im not trying to be rude but have you read the study?

The article in general is filled with questionable statements. Most researh states that reinvention at this time is more likely due to a false positive or that they hadn't fully shed the virus.

There's a reason why I post research versus news articles. No slant, peer review.

This study was regarding household transmission. I believe school was already closed. (I could be wrong, ill reread the study again later)

The contention in research going forward should be in a school setting with precautions in place. Asymptomatic transmission is less likely(not impossible). I believe all schools will be doing temp checks upon entry. Masks on busses, social distancing.

I teach. I have children. I want to be back in the classroom despite being relatively skilled at a flipped classroom model I've been using for years now. My children want to be back in school.

General advice for all... when researching, look for both sides, follow the research. The more an article is cited is a good indicator of credibility. Check their sources.

It is 100 percent possible I'm wrong. But I think the more research done shows I'm not.

The study is regarding household transmission.

We also found the highest COVID-19 rate (18.6% [95% CI 14.0%–24.0%]) for household contacts of school-aged children and the lowest (5.3% [95% CI 1.3%–13.7%]) for household contacts of children 0–9 years in the middle of school closure.

People who lived with patients between the ages of 10 and 19, 18.6% tested positive for the virus within about 10 days after the initial case was detected -- the highest rate of transmission among the groups studied. Children younger than 10 spread the virus at the lowest rate.

There are a bunch of caveats in the study. It's probably most useful to simply as a guide to exercise more caution as kids increase in age, they don't just get their COVID card at 18.
 

Somedumbdad

New member
  • Where do most go to vote on election day? Schools
  • Why do we need schools closed? To stop voting in person and force mail-in voting!

If you don't believe it, watch how fast they go back after the election
 

I enjoy wrestling

Active member

The study is regarding household transmission.

We also found the highest COVID-19 rate (18.6% [95% CI 14.0%–24.0%]) for household contacts of school-aged children and the lowest (5.3% [95% CI 1.3%–13.7%]) for household contacts of children 0–9 years in the middle of school closure.

People who lived with patients between the ages of 10 and 19, 18.6% tested positive for the virus within about 10 days after the initial case was detected -- the highest rate of transmission among the groups studied. Children younger than 10 spread the virus at the lowest rate.

There are a bunch of caveats in the study. It's probably most useful to simply as a guide to exercise more caution as kids increase in age, they don't just get their COVID card at 18.
What sport is your favorite? Wrestling is my favorite sport.
 

I enjoy wrestling

Active member
From what you've seen? How old do kids have to be to spread the disease like adults...16, 17, 18? What is the magic age that transmission begins? I've been involved in the sport for decades. I've seen plenty of kids put there all into the sport. It is still just a wrestling match. Wrestling does not define your character or who you are. There are many things that are a higher priority. If we can't teach our kids to sacrifice something like this for the good of others we need to reevaluate some things. I want to see a season as much as anyone but if we have to risk the lives of coaches, parents, fans, referees, or even a miniscule number of wrestlers we need to wait.
That's one way to look ar it. I'm lost when you say wrestling doesn't define one character. I also have been involved in sports for decades. I'm close to 60 years of age. If wrestling doesn't define and have a profound impact on the development of the athlete I'm truly lost. But, that's my opinion and you surely have a right to yours. Do athletes have any rights? I'm going to make a point and reach out to some high and college wrestlers. I want to hear how they feel.
 

brianwr112

Well-known member
They still have to prove it was Kroger fault
It's civil. The case will be based off Kroger not doing enough to protect their employees. I don't know what the guidelines were at the time but right after the death/lawsuit, Kroger and many other big box stores changed their procedures and how they'd combat the virus. Like most civil cases....this will most likely be settled confidentially before it ever reaches the courts. It will still cost Kroger a good deal of money in legal fees and whatever they agree to payout.
 

MPhillips

Well-known member
Franklin County Health Dept. is Recommending all schools in Franklin County discontinue all extracurricular activities during the period of remote learning.
Hilliard just suspended everything.
 

bleedinggreen

New member
The problem now is the amount of teachers opting out to teach online after the summer school experience in Arizona where 3 teachers on a team contracted the virus and one died. Teachers are struggling with the fact that they might have to go back.the kids are the easy part of the virus the problems come with who they give it to.
Last time I checked, teacher's claimed to be essential when trying to pass our levy. So are they essential or only when they want more tax money. Maybe the governor can deem them essential. That would end the discussion of having school or not.
 

Coach Root

Well-known member
They wont mention the camp name ...I call BS!!
Camp High Harbour

While I can understand your skepticism... I have family in the area with friends involved. I would assume that due to the YMCA's involvement, they tried to keep the name quiet.
 

CoachJules

Active member
Last time I checked, teacher's claimed to be essential when trying to pass our levy. So are they essential or only when they want more tax money. Maybe the governor can deem them essential. That would end the discussion of having school or not.
Wrong, if we have to go virtual, we still have to come to school to run the virtual classes since we are deemed essential.
 

I enjoy wrestling

Active member
Wrong, if we have to go virtual, we still have to come to school to run the virtual classes since we are deemed essential.
How do you think you will compete with virtual learning? Once virtual learning starts up again, so will competition for those educational dollars. How will you survive? Many Parents I know are already making the move. Students are dollar units, I would guess they are worth about 10k +/-. How many kid's can districts afford to lose? Every lost student is lost revenue. Once the avalanche starts it will redesign our present educational system. The little game going, in my opinion, is to hold out hope for sports to get the students money locked up for the year.
The educational system should think long and hard about not returning to the classroom. Once the federal money follows the student it will offer every student choice. School choice
 

WGTJ

Active member
How do you think you will compete with virtual learning? Once virtual learning starts up again, so will competition for those educational dollars. How will you survive? Many Parents I know are already making the move. Students are dollar units, I would guess they are worth about 10k +/-. How many kid's can districts afford to lose? Every lost student is lost revenue. Once the avalanche starts it will redesign our present educational system. The little game going, in my opinion, is to hold out hope for sports to get the students money locked up for the year.
The educational system should think long and hard about not returning to the classroom. Once the federal money follows the student it will offer every student choice. School choice
I think that you are way off on this. Most of the online schools basically rely on parents to be the ones to answer questions. I 100% want my children in a classroom environment interacting with a teacher and other students. Plus, schools are paid for through property tax, correct? Do parents get that money back if they don't send their kids to public school?
 

CoachJules

Active member
How do you think you will compete with virtual learning? Once virtual learning starts up again, so will competition for those educational dollars. How will you survive? Many Parents I know are already making the move. Students are dollar units, I would guess they are worth about 10k +/-. How many kid's can districts afford to lose? Every lost student is lost revenue. Once the avalanche starts it will redesign our present educational system. The little game going, in my opinion, is to hold out hope for sports to get the students money locked up for the year.
The educational system should think long and hard about not returning to the classroom. Once the federal money follows the student it will offer every student choice. School choice
Well we are starting off with hybrid and hopefully avoiding virtual. But I wouldn't worry about it. We may lose kids for 1 year but they would be back because online learning simply does not work, the kids would prefer to be in school with their friends, and public schools offer much more in extra curriculuars than online or charter schools.
 

I enjoy wrestling

Active member
I think that you are way off on this. Most of the online schools basically rely on parents to be the ones to answer questions. I 100% want my children in a classroom environment interacting with a teacher and other students. Plus, schools are paid for through property tax, correct? Do parents get that money back if they don't send their kids to public school?
I'll do my best to simplify. If a student isn't enrolled the school is loosing monies. Monies are transferred to online program or charter per say. School Vouchers The President has already informed the educational system he will give the Federal money to student if they don't open up. How or when that happens from the Federal government is not clear but it's not hard to understand where it's headed. https://www.forbes.com/sites/petergreene/2020/03/29/devos-leaving-students-behind-and-launching-national-school-vouchers/
 

I enjoy wrestling

Active member
Well we are starting off with hybrid and hopefully avoiding virtual. But I wouldn't worry about it. We may lose kids for 1 year but they would be back because online learning simply does not work, the kids would prefer to be in school with their friends, and public schools offer much more in extra curriculuars than online or charter schools.
Very good points, but you are missing a huge problem. I'll even say its catastrophic. How will your district survive the financial depression? Your district already got a funding cut from the State. More cuts will come from the State. The State is hemorrhaging money due to the Covid lockdowns. Add on top of that revenue lost from students leaving and I don't see how districts recover. The only hope is a return to the classroom. IMO. There are wage cuts coming for everyone in state government. The longer we stay in lockdown the more cuts to our budget will have to be made. The lockdowns are having generational financial issues.

I'll wager when we look back on this Pandemic we will be devastated by our Government decisions. All life is precious but you have to have vision. How many deaths will be directly tied into the impact of the lockdown? Suicide, substance abuse,mental health, undiagnosed illness and many other unintended attributes to death.
 

CoachJules

Active member
Very good points, but you are missing a huge problem. I'll even say its catastrophic. How will your district survive the financial depression? Your district already got a funding cut from the State. More cuts will come from the State. The State is hemorrhaging money due to the Covid lockdowns. Add on top of that revenue lost from students leaving and I don't see how districts recover. The only hope is a return to the classroom. IMO. There are wage cuts coming for everyone in state government. The longer we stay in lockdown the more cuts to our budget will have to be made. The lockdowns are having generational financial issues.

I'll wager when we look back on this Pandemic we will be devastated by our Government decisions. All life is precious but you have to have vision. How many deaths will be directly tied into the impact of the lockdown? Suicide, substance abuse,mental health, undiagnosed illness and many other unintended attributes to death.
You are assuming a mass exodus, most districts will not experience that. Why would parents enroll their child in an online school with potentially unqualified teachers when they could get the same from their home school. Many of those schools will also still provide technology, WiFi, and meals to students that need them. Now some gungho parents may want to send them to a private or charter school that is open, but again I don't think it will be in great numbers. Might come down to the politics and socio economics of the area.
 

I enjoy wrestling

Active member
You are assuming a mass exodus, most districts will not experience that. Why would parents enroll their child in an online school with potentially unqualified teachers when they could get the same from their home school. Many of those schools will also still provide technology, WiFi, and meals to students that need them. Now some gungho parents may want to send them to a private or charter school that is open, but again I don't think it will be in great numbers. Might come down to the politics and socio economics of the area.
Think K-7. Parents work and need a place for kids. Plug in the baby sitter or some small entity offering to educate and watch children. I know of 6 families looking at it right now. Then plug in some high school. My kids are done so it doesn't have a negative impact on my family. But, how do you think districts can afford negative revenues? I'm just trying to point out the bigger picture imo.
I'm not a fan of our present educational system. I am a fan of freedom of choice. I can assure you my kids would be wrestling. But, I also have no issue with a parent deciding not to let kid wrestle. They have to do what they think is best. But, don't tell me no wrestling. It's my option imo.
 

bucksman

Moderator
In terms of educational funding, there are multiple "buckets" of dollars that each school district gets:
**local (primarily property tax, in limited systems income tax)
**state (some-to-most of it is based on headcount, some of it is legislative decision)
**federal (I think mostly in grants, maybe some is headcount but I'm not sure)

I have no idea to what extent there will be movement out of local school districts into a "K-12" type online school scenario, though I am sure there will be some. What I do think will happen is that systems will either choose not to go to the ballot for levies here in the near term, or if they do go for levies, they will just get clobbered. I think the greater likelihood of a significant structural shift in schooling is in colleges as opposed to primary & secondary education.
 

I enjoy wrestling

Active member
In terms of educational funding, there are multiple "buckets" of dollars that each school district gets:
**local (primarily property tax, in limited systems income tax)
**state (some-to-most of it is based on headcount, some of it is legislative decision)
**federal (I think mostly in grants, maybe some is headcount but I'm not sure)

I have no idea to what extent there will be movement out of local school districts into a "K-12" type online school scenario, though I am sure there will be some. What I do think will happen is that systems will either choose not to go to the ballot for levies here in the near term, or if they do go for levies, they will just get clobbered. I think the greater likelihood of a significant structural shift in schooling is in colleges as opposed to primary & secondary education.
Colleges are in big trouble also. https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29583023/pac-12-football-players-show-unity-list-demands-letter-conference
 
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