Ohsaa?

bleedinggreen

New member
That falls on the parents and whether or not they enforce the national/state mandate.
Boro,
C'mon man. What kids aren't with their friends? Go outside and observe. They had to take down rim's on courts to keep them from playing. Kids are fearless. They will do it anyway. The rimless courts became a homerun derby park. The padlock just made them have to climb the fences.
 

Coach Root

Well-known member
It amazes me every time I get on here and read some of the responses... This doesn't seem to be a tough one for me and this goes for everyday life on and off the mat. If you are comfortable with the disease then go ahead and push forward. If you are not, wait and see. Both are acceptable decisions. Those that push forward run a higher risk of transmission. Those waiting run a higher risk of missing some mat time. Pretty simple. Beyond that... respect everyone right to make their own decision. It's not that hard.

Me personally, I think we'll be lucky if wrestling (OHSAA) happens this coming season... and I'd be amazed if it happens before January. We're dealing with a virus that is being watched and tracked every day. Couple that with the fact that school officials are in the habit of good old fashion CYA... Add them together and things don't look good. Society doesn't want us within 6 feet of each other, it doesn't want us to shake hands, we are literally talking about moving desks 6 foot apart in the classroom and eating lunch in the classroom... every place I go has a plexiglass screen separating me and a cashier... so how are they going to allow a sport that breaks every rule before the whistle even blows.

I'm not on either side of the fence on this one... I just don't think that the powers that be are going to put kids and coaches at risk... They are going to be happy to get them back in the schools, and won't likely risk any additional exposure interacting with other school districts.

My two cents:
- Minimize the amount travel on your schedule now... If there is a season, I foresee rules being put in place that disallow out of state travel possibly even limiting events to a specific region.
- I think the big tournaments will have limits placed on them, changing them drastically - due to fans.
- If you really want to make a push for a season, quit b!tching about things now and stay out of the room... it'll only take one case, be it a coach or a wrestler, to take down the entire season for everyone.
- Refocus on the concept of the dual meet. With fan limitations it may be the only acceptable format.

and last and most importantly..

- Let the kids be kids. They don't need to be wrestling right now. What are they really gaining??? It's not like the best of the best are competing... Most of the tournaments going on are a joke. The majority of the wrestlers aren't training hard and it's not like the field of competition is topped out. So, what are you really proving?

The sport needs to come together and create guidelines and rules to present to the big boys if they are going to have any chance at a season. Like I said, 1 wrestling related case could kill the sport for the year... with daily case numbers surging, competing does little but increase the risk of transmission, but also of the another year without a state tournament.


Coach Root
 

WGTJ

Active member
But kids are not showing any number. Kids are not at risk and haven’t been. This is a big mind screw
Are you saying that kids aren't getting it?

They are, just not in near as significant of numbers as adults, it seems.



And since they are, can anyone tell us what the long-term ramifications are of getting it? People always like to focus on deaths, but that could be a small fraction of the impact. Getting this could lead to health problems down the road for them. Then again, maybe it won't - pretty sure that this is still unknown. I don't post this in hopes of scaring anyone or anything like that, but there is still a lot of unknowns with this and I would expect the politicians and schools to error on the side of caution.
 

MPhillips

Well-known member
Just for reference. My response below was to FirestoneFan who since deleted his post.

Fair enough Firestone. My 76yr old Mother lives with me. I have a whole other outlook. Peace my friend...
 
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cruiser_96

Well-known member
Root: I see a silver lining in your post concerning dual meets and the return to them. Personally I like it.

My son asked if I thought we’d have a season. I stated that if we did, it would, as you suggested, be modified.

I could see quads being the largest event allowable. Duals, tris, or 2x4s during the week and then a quad on Saturday. Possibly rack up 3-5 matches per week over an 8-week period.

Another thought, and on the bad side of things...return to duals ***could*** hurt small programs and girls wrestling (and any momentum it had entering last season).

Stay safe. Stay positive.
 

Gabe.Applegate

New member
If you really want to make a push for a season, quit b!tching about things now and stay out of the room... it'll only take one case, be it a coach or a wrestler, to take down the entire season for everyone.
Coach Root, I understand what you're saying and respect your opinion. Without naming any names, we have already seen what happens when a wrestler practices in a group setting with COVID. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. The kid that tested positive had a fever for less than 12 hours and, other than a positive test result, no other issues or symptoms. No one else in the room contracted the virus, at least not to the point of showing any symptoms. The end result would have been worse if the kid came to practice with basically any other contagious condition (common cold, flu, strep throat, ringworm, etc.).

My 2 cents:
- By all means we should safeguard the elderly and immuno compromised, but COVID-19's low risks to children and healthy adults aren't even worth making a trip to Walgreens for a vaccine.
- There should be no concern for legal liability because it is impossible to show causation. For example, Kroger, Home Depot, etc. don't have to worry about losing a COVID-19 lawsuit because no one can prove how/where they contracted a virus. The places that do need to worry (e.g., hospitals and nursing homes where patients haven't left a room or building) are lobbying for protection from lawsuits.
- The kids should be back in school and parents should be able to exercise personal freedoms of choice.
- I hope the silent majority agrees with me.
 

Boro Fan

Well-known member
Coach Root, I understand what you're saying and respect your opinion. Without naming any names, we have already seen what happens when a wrestler practices in a group setting with COVID. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. The kid that tested positive had a fever for less than 12 hours and, other than a positive test result, no other issues or symptoms. No one else in the room contracted the virus, at least not to the point of showing any symptoms. The end result would have been worse if the kid came to practice with basically any other contagious condition (common cold, flu, strep throat, ringworm, etc.).

My 2 cents:
- By all means we should safeguard the elderly and immuno compromised, but COVID-19's low risks to children and healthy adults aren't even worth making a trip to Walgreens for a vaccine.
- There should be no concern for legal liability because it is impossible to show causation. For example, Kroger, Home Depot, etc. don't have to worry about losing a COVID-19 lawsuit because no one can prove how/where they contracted a virus. The places that do need to worry (e.g., hospitals and nursing homes where patients haven't left a room or building) are lobbying for protection from lawsuits.
- The kids should be back in school and parents should be able to exercise personal freedoms of choice.
- I hope the silent majority agrees with me.
We’re the other wrestlers tested?
 

Gabe.Applegate

New member
We’re the other wrestlers tested?
I can't speak for the other wrestlers, but my wife is tested regularly and has not tested positive.

With that said, maybe they all contracted COVID and their immune systems immediately squashed it. The point is, why subject kids to educational/athletic/economic disadvantages over a hyped-up low risk virus? The juice isn't worth the squeeze.
 

Jim Behrens

Active member
I can't speak for the other wrestlers, but my wife is tested regularly and has not tested positive.

With that said, maybe they all contracted COVID and their immune systems immediately squashed it. The point is, why subject kids to educational/athletic/economic disadvantages over a hyped-up low risk virus? The juice isn't worth the squeeze.
I wasn't going to wade into this never ending drama but I do have a couple of things to add.
Neither you nor I can speak for everyone else out there and you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Let us assume for a moment that all children will have no issue and will not get sick (or worse) from the virus.
Can you say the same for their coaches, the bus drivers, the table workers, the officials? These are not the children you speak of and yet the potential risk and harm to them could be quite great. I deal with a LOT of officials. I have not heard of any who will not work the 20-21 school year but the renewal time for the permits has not ended yet. It will not surprise me if some guys decide the risk is not worth it to them.

You say that there is no liability involved. Are you an attorney or some sort of expert in this field? If not, you have no idea as to the potential liability. If someone gets sick because of the negligent actions of another party, that party and others are likely to be named.
Like it or not, that is going to be a concern for any school administrator. I have no idea how real this is or is not but ignoring it will not be an option. Of that I am sure.
 

Gabe.Applegate

New member
Neither you nor I can speak for everyone else out there and you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
I am a strong supporter of personal freedoms and opinions. Along those lines, I wish more people would speak up about lifting unreasonable COVID restrictions; the squeakiest wheels appear to be getting all the grease.

You say that there is no liability involved. Are you an attorney or some sort of expert in this field? If not, you have no idea as to the potential liability.
Yes - I am an attorney (e.g., licensed to practice in Ohio).
 

Jim Behrens

Active member
I am a strong supporter of personal freedoms and opinions. Along those lines, I wish more people would speak up about lifting unreasonable COVID restrictions; the squeakiest wheels appear to be getting all the grease.

I am very much the same and most of the time it gets me in trouble!
Personally I wonder where the "authority" for the restrictions comes from? I never voted for a single public official with the idea that they could do what they want to do.

Yes - I am an attorney (e.g., licensed to practice in Ohio).
In that case, feel free to dispense legal advice!
I hope you are prepared to defend anyone who needs it for free.
 

Gabe.Applegate

New member
In that case, feel free to dispense legal advice!
I hope you are prepared to defend anyone who needs it for free.
That's a cagey comment. I think it's obvious that I am voicing my opinion in a wrestling forum and have not established an attorney-client relationship with its users.

It's your prerogative if you choose to keep eating what the media is feeding you.
 

brianwr112

Well-known member
I question how much you follow your profession? Kroger has several lawsuits they're currently defending based on their handling of COVID. Including a Wrongful Death suit.
 

Gabe.Applegate

New member
I question how much you follow your profession? Kroger has several lawsuits they're currently defending based on their handling of COVID. Including a Wrongful Death suit.
You can question all you want. I would not want to be on the side proving causation. Anyone can bring a suit - it doesn't mean they will win. Hopefully poor results will prevent people from bringing similar future suits.

As a side note, why would tort law want to punish Kroger for selling people groceries? Why would you support that?

 

Coach Root

Well-known member
I'm not looking to get into a p!ssing contest... You want to go wrestle, then have at it. I see no point especially at this time of year. The season, including Fargo and Disney are usually folding up about now, and some much needed time off is generally agreed upon. I realize we didn't get the full season in, but it doesn't change the fact that we are in the off-season.

As for your opinions and freedoms... you are entitled to them. But to say there is no risk is kind of naive. Rooms, at least high school rooms, can't be open without coaches. Many of which are older. As for the younger kids... they need rides, putting parents at risk. I'm not taking either side, but to downplay someones caution considering things seems like your shoving your opinion down every ones throat as if they need to agree. I stand by an earlier statement I made... If you think it's nothing to worry about charge ahead... if you think it is then proceed with caution. Either way, I think respecting everyone else's decision would be common decency at this point.

The way I see this thing, and please realize, I am talking in very loose terms... it's like the kid that comes in with some skin funk. A lot of crazy crap grows on wrestles these days... if you show up with a little ringworm, as a coach, I usually keep you away from the others, but I'll roll with you on the side, as I'm not to worried about getting ringworm. Exchange the ringworm for mat herpes, and I don't even put on my shoes that day. I figure I've made it about 40 years in the sport without that crap, and catching it at this point isn't on my bucket list. I just don't personally see the reward outweighing the risk... I think that's where I stand with this virus. It's July, what are you really going to accomplish... the worlds longest season?

I standby my statement, that avoiding any potential infection in the wrestling community is our best bet at a season.

Coach Root
 
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Gabe.Applegate

New member
Fair enough and thanks for the discourse. COVID-19 isn't going away though. Regardless of which way our respective opinions lean, it will always come down to a matter of risk tolerance and public perception.
 

olivia jo

Active member
The problem now is the amount of teachers opting out to teach online after the summer school experience in Arizona where 3 teachers on a team contracted the virus and one died. Teachers are struggling with the fact that they might have to go back.the kids are the easy part of the virus the problems come with who they give it to.
 

JTM123

New member
I enjoyed reading the view points here and certainly think both sides have merit and are well thought out. My two cents are as follows:

  1. I think football has to “open the door” for almost every other sport till spring. No matter where you lean I think most pressure to play will come from football for the foreseeable future but it just seems like the regulations and restrictions currently in place are prohibitive of a season once kids test positive during the season. So many hurdles. Many schools are already struggling with this having to hold off conditioning for positives. I just don’t see the political will to push forward (rightly or wrongly).
  2. The fortunate part for wrestling is I think minimally there will be a focus on club tournaments and that will likely be the nature of this wrestling season. People can decide what’s right for them and participate how they want. Practice will likely be in private clubs, garages, barns, etc of people they know. It’s going on now. Not in schools though. Sucks regardless, but at least there IS an option. Football gets cancelled that seems like a wrap for those kids. Basketball, there’s at least the AAU circuit. Baseball can do SWOL in SW Ohio. For all practical purposes I would think most college recruiters can still get a good feel for this years seniors through those leagues and tournaments. Unfortunately I just don’t see AD’s pushing forward for a variety of reasonable concerns. Schools are still grappling with whether kids will even be in the building next year for class, much less sports. Throw in college seems to be heading down that path as well.

Hate to be the Debbie Downer and certainly hope I’m wrong, but this virus isn’t going anywhere and there’s such a difference of opinions that I don’t see anyone coming to an agreement on how to proceed.
 

Simon Kenton

New member
That's a cagey comment. I think it's obvious that I am voicing my opinion in a wrestling forum and have not established an attorney-client relationship with its users.

It's your prerogative if you choose to keep eating what the media is feeding you.
You are on a solid footing and I would note there is an assumption of risk defense available due to the overwhelming public nature of Covid-19. These forums are interesting as commenters espouse their “expertise” but the moment a professional shows up they quip him or her 😂
 
Fair enough and thanks for the discourse. COVID-19 isn't going away though. Regardless of which way our respective opinions lean, it will always come down to a matter of risk tolerance and public perception.
If only we could keep it simple. This is now political Covid. Who would of thought public health would go down this road. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/two-elite-medical-journals-retract-coronavirus-papers-over-data-integrity-questions

Medical Journals don't publish retractions. But, they did on this study. It's mind numbing the data manipulation that's taking place.
 

Cjlewis01

Active member
I believe the next stimulus is supposed to address liability. That gives us some hope.

That being said, and although I strictly disagree with any shutdowns and mandates based off of hospital capacity, effectiveness of trial medicine, combined with the actual data of individuals under 60....

Our cases will continue to rise the next week. Timeline wise, the next two weeks will be the result of July 4th celebrations. Our current spike is more inclined to increased testing and protests. Probably to the point where football gets canceled. Which means we are probably screwed for wrestling as school sponsored. Maybe after the election things will magically disappear but im beginning to lose hope.
 
My recommendation for anyone going off of predictions and such is to continue to revisit said predictions and hold the modelers accountable for being wrong.

The other important aspect and it may seem insensitive is it acknowledge deaths happen every day. If you're seriously interested in the numbers, compare deaths per 100,000 people. That will make everything closer to an apples to apples situation.

Statistics are easy to manipulate because most people don't understand or take the time to understand the math.

The other important Statistics to understand is number of tests. In any trendline there should be a another line to show number of tests.

For example in Ohio we are supposed to be testing 3 times as many people per day as we did a month ago. Of course the number of positive tests will rise.

I personally believe nursing home and prison cases and deaths should be considered their own subset to show the actual risks to our general population.
Wait until you or a member of your immediate family is clinging to life due to this pandemic. Some of your opinions or the viewpoints that you have offered throughout this topic may quickly change!

Coach Root, I understand what you're saying and respect your opinion. Without naming any names, we have already seen what happens when a wrestler practices in a group setting with COVID. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. The kid that tested positive had a fever for less than 12 hours and, other than a positive test result, no other issues or symptoms. No one else in the room contracted the virus, at least not to the point of showing any symptoms. The end result would have been worse if the kid came to practice with basically any other contagious condition (common cold, flu, strep throat, ringworm, etc.).

My 2 cents:
- By all means we should safeguard the elderly and immuno compromised, but COVID-19's low risks to children and healthy adults aren't even worth making a trip to Walgreens for a vaccine.
- There should be no concern for legal liability because it is impossible to show causation. For example, Kroger, Home Depot, etc. don't have to worry about losing a COVID-19 lawsuit because no one can prove how/where they contracted a virus. The places that do need to worry (e.g., hospitals and nursing homes where patients haven't left a room or building) are lobbying for protection from lawsuits.
- The kids should be back in school and parents should be able to exercise personal freedoms of choice.
- I hope the silent majority agrees with me.
As somebody else said, unless you know the results for all of those other wrestlers & what happened within the families for those wrestlers, you do not know how the end results could have ended up.

There are way too many people on here spewing political views when this is supposed to be a wrestling forum!
 

Gabe.Applegate

New member
As somebody else said, unless you know the results for all of those other wrestlers & what happened within the families for those wrestlers, you do not know how the end results could have ended up.
That's true, but I do know the involved families very closely. In other words, I wasn't referring to a huge public wrestling room, and my immediate family includes a significant number of the involved wrestlers.

As for political views and wrestling, the politics are having a significant impact on day-to-day opportunities to participate in this sport. I feel like we are only hearing about statistically unlikely worst case scenarios when it comes to COVID. When someone like myself mentions a more typical situation it gets treated by the general public as an anomaly. Moreover, I also have about ten other personal data points of people that tested positive for COVID with either minor or non-existent symptoms. I have two personal data points of people who tested positive for COVID and passed away; both were already suffering from other life-threatening conditions (e.g., were in nursing homes and not expected to live much longer prior to COVID).

Setting aside politics and corporate profits, I don't understand why we are continuing to track this particular virus so closely.
 

pheesh

Active member
Setting aside politics and corporate profits, I don't understand why we are continuing to track this particular virus so closely.
I'd imagine the experts crapped their pants because Americans are fat.


Obesity has been associated with impaired immune system...

Obesity is an independent risk and prognostic factor for the disease severity and the requirement of advanced medical care in COVID-19.
This systematic review highlights a particularly vulnerable group
– obese, and emphasises on the importance of treatment aggression
and disease prevention in this population group.



For instance, of 180 patients hospitalized from March 1 to March 30, the most prevalent underlying condition for adults ages 18 to 49 was obesity. Of 39 patients in that age range, 23, or 59 percent, were obese, researchers report in the April 17 Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.

“BMI is the Achilles’ heel for American patients,” says Jennifer Lighter, an epidemiologist at New York University’s Langone School of Medicine.
That could be a crucial factor in the death toll, particularly for those under 60, she says.
“In China it was smoking and pollution, and Italy had a larger older population, and many grandparents lived with extended families. Here, it’s BMI that’s the issue.”



The prevalence of obesity was 42.4% in 2017~2018
The prevalence of obesity was 40.0% among young adults aged 20 to 39 years, 44.8% among middle-aged adults aged 40 to 59 years, and 42.8% among adults aged 60 and older.
 

Cjlewis01

Active member
Wait until you or a member of your immediate family is clinging to life due to this pandemic. Some of your opinions or the viewpoints that you have offered throughout this topic may quickly change!



As somebody else said, unless you know the results for all of those other wrestlers & what happened within the families for those wrestlers, you do not know how the end results could have ended up.

There are way too many people on here spewing political views when this is supposed to be a wrestling forum!
I promise you my opinion would not change. I have family members who would not do well to fight this virus. But my opinion is not based off emotions. It's based off of numbers and data. Specifically I also understand that people die daily regardless of Covid-19.

Just an FYI check out our state's deaths per 100,000 for coronavirus then compare it to other causes of death in Ohio.

Check out the hospitalizations and deaths for those under 60. Specifically those under 20.

About 10 percent of our ICU beds are being used for coronavirus and about 5 percent of our total hospital beds.

I would venture ive spent more time than most assessing the data and researching.
 
I promise you my opinion would not change. I have family members who would not do well to fight this virus. But my opinion is not based off emotions. It's based off of numbers and data. Specifically I also understand that people die daily regardless of Covid-19.

Just an FYI check out our state's deaths per 100,000 for coronavirus then compare it to other causes of death in Ohio.

Check out the hospitalizations and deaths for those under 60. Specifically those under 20.

About 10 percent of our ICU beds are being used for coronavirus and about 5 percent of our total hospital beds.

I would venture ive spent more time than most assessing the data and researching.
How hard would it be to have a John Doe death count?
Age
Sex
Pre existing condition
Bodymass ---were they obese?

Wouldn't those statistics paint a picture? The whole situation is tactical imo. It's all or nothing with no honesty. Covid is here and that's not going to change. The only thing we control is ourselves. I don't criticize any individual for taking any precaution they deem necessary. But, that door should swing both ways.

Everyone is an individual with rights. I don't feel a person should be made to wear a mask in public areas. But, I believe that right stops there. Any place of business has the right to mandate mask. They own the building and make the rules. Now the tricky part for me. What are the powers of Government? Can our government legally mandate mask at this time? There are arguments on both sides and data to prove each sides arguments. I don't believe Government has that right. Imo If you believe in mask wear them. Respect those that don't.

Now on to young people. How long do we expect them to sacrifice? Should they sacrifice for a small minority of the population? I am closing in on 60 years of age. I have busted my to stay fit, eat a very reasonable diet and stay on top of my health. Would I survive Covid? Hell, I don't know. I might of had the Virus already. I could still die from Covid. I will not live in fear of death and will live as I see fit. If you are in an at risk category take responsibility. The point of this ramble is about the spirit of youth. We are systematically crushing the spirit of those who have no meaningful risk from being infected with Covid. Why?

I love the sport of wrestling and I personally see no risk for any wrestlers. That's how I feel, but to be honest it doesn't matter one bit. It should matter how the wrestlers feel. Parents play a role with minors. Who are we to stop the youth from competition? And yes I am pissed !!!!!
 
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