OHSAA Football Playoff Expansion. Time for wrestling to step up!

The OHSAA has decided to expand the number of teams that qualify for the football playoffs. 12 teams per region which is in my opinion a good idea.

It is time for wrestling to really start pushing for the same! The idea was brought up a few months ago but has been lost in the virus news but with the football decision it’s time to push to get this on the table.

5 qualifiers per district state wide. Then either a wrestle in round between 4/5s at state or district champions receive byes. However it works out there are not many negatives besides those who organize the tournament will be a little uncomfortable trying to figure out the logistics and timing which shouldn’t be hard. Increased attendance at districts for finals, increase in attendance and tickets sales for state, more concessions sales, more T-shirt sales.isn’t a tough sell!

If you think it is a worth while idea then please do me a favor and email your regions coaches rep for the coaches association, your district board, any influential people at the OHSAA and let’s get moving on this!

 

CoachJules

Active member
I guess I am turning into "get off my lawn" guy but I hate the idea of expanded playoffs in football and would not want to see wrestling expand as well. I get why they are doing it for money, but look at football. If they used the new playoff format last year, you would have had 34 teams in Divisions 2-7 in the playoffs with 5-5 or worse records. I know some of those teams play loaded schedules, but not all of them. Same with wrestling, adding more qualifiers lessens the achievement of qualifying for state. Again, I may be turning into a "boomer" already at the ripe old age of 38, but I don't see this helping the sport or bringing in enough extra money to make it worth it.
 

mailman112

Well-known member
I guess I am turning into "get off my lawn" guy but I hate the idea of expanded playoffs in football and would not want to see wrestling expand as well. I get why they are doing it for money, but look at football. If they used the new playoff format last year, you would have had 34 teams in Divisions 2-7 in the playoffs with 5-5 or worse records. I know some of those teams play loaded schedules, but not all of them. Same with wrestling, adding more qualifiers lessens the achievement of qualifying for state. Again, I may be turning into a "boomer" already at the ripe old age of 38, but I don't see this helping the sport or bringing in enough extra money to make it worth it.
Could not agree more. The state duals are a waste of time. Should be the old way of top 8 team with returning state points. Football is a pure money grab.
 

brianwr112

Well-known member
The last thing they're going to do is expand on the Wrestling Tournament and make it larger. They'd almost have to include another session.
 

Blast82.5

Active member
I'm not saying it couldn't work, but I'm not voting for it either.

As far as Football goes, the playoffs are already so watered-down, they might as well move to "Sectional - District - Regional - State" where every team participates in the post-season.

Used to be that only the "elite" teams made the playoffs. Now ... there are roughly 700 teams in the state, and 32 x 7 = 224 reach the playoffs (32%). In D1, it's 32 out of < 80 teams, or more than 40% that are "elite." Now we want to move to 336 teams ... nearly 50% of all teams and MORE than 50% in D1?? Enough already.

Looks like I'm definitely a "get off my lawn" guy now ...
 

bucksman

Moderator
The state duals in the old way would NOT be an OHSAA event because it's not all-in and/or based on the current season.

In terms of pushing the state tournament out to 20, I'd have to go through the tournament line-by-line and provide some feedback on how best to achieve it as five gates if rat-tail only or if full D-E. Nuts and bolts, about two hours if rat-tail only, 3-1/2 to four hours if full D-E.
 

DonnieDarko

New member
Expanding the football playoffs is stupid other than just looking at the money. None of those extra schools getting in are ever going to win it, ever. There’s way too many crappy football teams that make the playoffs already. If anything they need to reduce the teams by half. All this will do is have more kids injured or physically burnt out right before wrestling season. Football coaches are not a friend of wrestling IMO. They want their athletes with nothing else to give at the end of the season and then we expect then to start wrestling practice the next week.

As far as wrestling, lets get the girls tournament happening first. But even after that it’s a meh from me.
 

Sheridan

Member
first off i havent read any of the information on expanding the football playoffs. With adding more teams will that make football season longer? The State finals are already wrestlings first weekend. if they go an extra weekend that means the state finals will be ironman weekend.
 

bucksman

Moderator
first off i havent read any of the information on expanding the football playoffs. With adding more teams will that make football season longer? The State finals are already wrestlings first weekend. if they go an extra weekend that means the state finals will be ironman weekend.
(1) expansion of the playoffs will not happen until FALL 2021

(2) the shift from eight teams in the playoffs to 12 teams in the playoffs will add an extra week of competition. However, that extra week will be covered by shrinking the preseason as opposed to adding it on the back end. Instead of 25 preseason days, you're going down to 18.
 

POM

Member
Football is ridiculously watered down with 7 divisions, adding more teams to playoffs is just a big money grab...Don't let wrestling stoop to this!
 
Yeah...I don't see much benefit from letting the alternate be an automatic qualifier. There is a reason that the wrestler in that spot is the alternate...he/she wasn't good enough to qualify in one of the of top 4 spots.
 

Cjlewis01

Member
I'm all for the proposal coach Pitts presented last year. I talked with Coach Conley about the idea a couple years ago as well. I think its fair and good for everyone.

Adds more kids to state which boosts attendance. Makes the finals matches for 5th and 6th incredible. Gives the toughest districts and weights 1 more guy.

I've seen numerous times where a 5th at Alliance had beaten multiple state qualifiers from other districts. (I only mention alliance because that was where I was at. I'm sure its happened across the board)

If you havent checked out the proposal, do so. I think if we add it with girls could be beneficial.
 
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bucksman

Moderator
Track & Field in recent years expanded its state tournament to have two wild card qualifiers from across the state in every event based on time for track events. Within one or two years they opened that up to field events (for equity) based on height/distance. The top four from each of the four regionals still qualify but the two best times/distances/heights that don't make it also get to be part of the state tournament.

That proposal was to get additional athletes the chance to participate in the state tournament. On the other hand, for the track events there was no additional time added since the track at Ohio State has nine lanes in it anyway (which means 18 can be accommodated in two heats). Another factor in track (and field) is that there are some times scratches due to athletes pulling out of one event to prioritize for another event in which they qualified (there's no "alternates" in track/field for this circumstance).

In terms of wrestling, single-class New Jersey recently expanded its tournament from 24 (8 regions advancing 3) to 32 (8 regions advancing 4). However, that was more a concession related to the public/private politics in that state. New Jersey also has phased into full double-elimination, as opposed to a follow-the-leader format at the state tournament.
 

mailman112

Well-known member
The state duals in the old way would NOT be an OHSAA event because it's not all-in and/or based on the current season.

The amount of teams entering each year has gone down. The state has lost money hosting this event each year. (Again for the state duals) This way is NOT the best way IMO. I think most knowledgable wrestle fans can pick at least 6/8 teams that make it in each division. Why are we wasting a weekend of wrestling to determine the 8? Most knowledgable fans can pick the two in the finals (in most years) Go back to the old way. Top returning points for each of the 8 teams. I would be willing bet (although I have not researched it) you would have at least 6 of those teams making it each year. I won't bring up hosting the event on a Sunday and having maybe 1,500 in the stands for the finals. Then those people living south or north driving home 2 hours or more. They wonder why nobody hangs around but parents, family and friends?
 
As far as football is concerned, there used to be less divisions and they only took FOUR teams to the playoffs. It was very difficult to be a playoff team. Then, they expanded to eight and have even added a division. Now, they're expanding to twelve. That means 2/3 of the teams in the state of Ohio will make the playoffs. That's far from exclusive. Don't be surprised to see teams with losing records in the playoffs. I disagree with it but, like everything else, has to be money driven.

I really don't have a strong opinion on the addition of another state qualifier per district. I know wrestling for a true fourth makes some sense. But I kind of like how the format is currently. Those consolation semis are pretty intense.
 

CedarBuck92

Active member
Football coaches are not a friend of wrestling IMO. They want their athletes with nothing else to give at the end of the season and then we expect then to start wrestling practice the next week.
I have always been under the impression that this is the expectation of coaches in every sport. It certainly was the expectation of everyone of my coaches and everyone of my brother's coaches.
 

miketyson

Active member
i wouldn't mind seeing the district 5 rat tail. Getting rid of state alternates its a burden to have to bring them down. Giving a champ a bye or something. I believe Pa has a 20 man bracket and also D2 does it.
 

bookworm123

New member
The football expansion in division II-VII is okay but I think it is silly for the division I. Division I, Region 2 would have had four teams with a 3-7 record in the playoffs. Considering football's lower number of teams in division I than the other divisions, could division I wrestling have five qualifiers per district but not division II and III.
 

bucksman

Moderator
The football expansion in division II-VII is okay but I think it is silly for the division I. Division I, Region 2 would have had four teams with a 3-7 record in the playoffs. Considering football's lower number of teams in division I than the other divisions, could division I wrestling have five qualifiers per district but not division II and III.
It is accurate to say that D1 in football has 18 teams per region, which means having 12 make the playoffs is 2/3 the team, while D2 through D7 have ~26 teams per region. However, in wrestling the number of OHSAA defined teams are basically equal between the divisions.

As far as scrapping alternates, I don't think that would happen in the way this proposal was written. The six would be the alternate instead of the five. I don't know if the initial poster of this thread had an idea to shift wrestlers up a line if the non-participant was a top three qualifier or not.
 
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