Obtaining a Patent

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Angel investor... how big a rube are you? I've consulted on numerous mergers and acquisitions of 8-figure amounts... "angel investor?" You've got pretty big internet balls calling me inept when you don't have ANY idea what you're talking about. The days of "angel investing" went out with the tech boom.

8 figures? Wow, Tom. That's cute. Obviously business investing does exist, even at the small angel level. And having a patent in place certainly strengthens your position to secure those opportunites. Nice try with the "rube" comment. That was funny.
 
Selling the design? HA HA HA... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! JOHN DOE INVENTOR doesn't "sell his design." Only those who are in love with their own intellect believe that whatever they cooked up in their garage is the next intermittent windshield wiper and that buyers will be lining up to get it... and be willing to pay big money for it. Go ahead and live in your little utopian fantasy land... but I have been through this, and know the real world. About 99.99% of all "inventions" LOSE money for their creators. Out of the 1/10,000 that make money, only about 1 in 1,000 make life-changing money. Of my TWO patents, NEITHER of them were worth the paper they were printed on. One product made nothing for me, the other has and still does for 20 years now... but NOT because of the patent... PERIOD.

If you want to spend GOOD money on researching the product... take it to an industry engineer or designer, get an NDA signed and then ask them for their assessment about ease of duplication... AND ease of substitution by some other product or process. Then take it to a professional marketing firm, get an NDA signed, and inquire about market research (oh, that'll only cost a few thousand to hire a firm of any reputation.... so, go ahead). Have them ask this question: does the market NEED this product? Usually, the answer is no.

btw - most people never get to the patent stage anyway. After you find out how much it costs just to have the research done to see if the product is even eligible for a patent, you're thousands in... most find out that their product basis... whatever technology, design, etc... is NOT patentable anyway (many people will find that out in initial IP consultation, finding they are saying "patent" but the IP attorney will tell them they actually should pursue a copyright or other IP protection). But, in the end, I started making money with my tool design once I decided "to hell with that" and put my attention into building it in the most expensive manner and marketing the product.

Gee is it tough Tom? I thought every patent idea brought in millions of dollars. You mean there are risks to consider? No !?!? Not sure where you got the impression I thought anyone should obtain a patent or defend one without analyzing the risk. Oh wait, I didn't, it's your poor reading comprehension.

Hold on though, if you do have a million dollar idea, you will need the patent to keep others our or sell and license. Not sure where I'm wrong there. :shrug:
 
Yes... but that's not quite what I said. The bond between a parent and a grown child is not a moral issue... it's a CHOICE. There is no OBLIGATION there. And, so, this "default" notion that a parent has to violate their own personal views to accept their grown child's lifestyle is nonsense. This modern-day "feel-good we-have-to-accept-everyone family-of-man let's-all-join-hands-and-sing-kumbayyah" trend is just an extension of the inability to cogitate through a concept and come to a conclusion logically, to set a foundation of who you are... and then be willing to stand up for your principles. And that's the key part... being willing to stand on your principles and accept the consequences, even if that means alienation from your family... whatever. My niece can do it... why not her mother? Only because she's "not tolerant." Well, let me know when that finally becomes a two-way street.

I appreciate the fact that you remembered it was me who said that, though.

Not at all Tom. People kind of remember when someone speaks of pride about ostracizing a family member due to who they are.
 
Tom got all mad because I said getting a patent may be a good idea. I had no idea he had two failed patent experiences. I kind of feel bad now. Seems pretty emotional over it.
 
Tom got all mad because I said getting a patent may be a good idea. I had no idea he had two failed patent experiences. I kind of feel bad now. Seems pretty emotional over it.

Don't feel bad... the one design was a dud but the other has made me more money as a sideline than you make in your 40-hour job. Between my two patents, I wasted about $25,000 with IP attorneys, research, filing, etc. I've made that back and plenty more by simply selling. It's like putting money on the pass line and coming up craps... I had the money to blow, but it did piss me off no end realizing in the end I could have done exactly what I did in sales revenue without the IP. Live and learn. So, you people on here think you know so much that I get called "inept" and worse, when in reality you have NO idea what you're talking about. The OP here doesn't need a bunch of morons with internet know-it-all-balls telling him what to do with his money. He needs to hear the truth, which I gave him... and you didn't, and couldn't possibly.
 
Don't feel bad... the one design was a dud but the other has made me more money as a sideline than you make in your 40-hour job. Between my two patents, I wasted about $25,000 with IP attorneys, research, filing, etc. I've made that back and plenty more by simply selling. It's like putting money on the pass line and coming up craps... I had the money to blow, but it did piss me off no end realizing in the end I could have done exactly what I did in sales revenue without the IP. Live and learn. So, you people on here think you know so much that I get called "inept" and worse, when in reality you have NO idea what you're talking about. The OP here doesn't need a bunch of morons with internet know-it-all-balls telling him what to do with his money. He needs to hear the truth, which I gave him... and you didn't, and couldn't possibly.

The bottomlime, which your inept reading comprehension didn't allow you to grasp is if his idea is worth protecting, he should protect it. Pretty much my point from the beginning. You on the other hand told him to not protect his idea because your ventures didn't need it and you obviously incorrectly valued your ideas. I'm not even sure what the rest of your blathering is about. Anyway, talk about Internet balls, all you've done in this thread is puff yourself up. Maybe you are wealthier than I, but I'd be surprised given your need to tell me you are over and over. But it's Christmas and I'm in a good mood, so Merry Christmas Tom. Hopefully you do the decent thing and reach out to your niece.
 
As usually happens on Yappi this thread took an interesting path. :D

e_p and Tom provided some food for thought but we're going to go down the patent path and meet with a lawyer. Art work for the idea is going to be completed today or tomorrow and then off to the lawyer's office some time next week. The idea is actually something my son presented in a marketing class. His professor made millions as an entrepreneur and then got into teaching after he made his fortune. It's his professor who told him to get the patent over the holidays and when he comes back from Christmas break he's going to work with him on how to market/sell the idea. Kind of neat experience for my son. Not sure where it will go but it's worth the effort if the professor is willing to work with him. Again it was the prof who approached my son about it and has offered assistance so it'll be a great learning experience either way.

Thanks to those of you who provided links to patent websites.
 
The idea is actually something my son presented in a marketing class.

Good luck to him. Make sure his attorney knows there's 30-40 people, including a professional entrepreneur-professor, who have already heard the idea publicly and now are free to create, sell and profit from his idea/product no matter what IP protections he gets now or in the future, including modifications to design or process.

Some here have decided I'm the forrest gump version of the antichrist in this thread. In reality, they are living in a 99.99%-likely fantasy land. They correlate the existence of a patent with success. That's like saying that since you have homeowner's insurance, your house will never burn down. Plus, there's lots of massively successful products that were never patented. WD-40 and Coca-Cola are just two never patented so the formula could be kept a trade secret. They trademarked the name for marketing purposes, but never patented the composition of the liquid itself. What others won't tell you is that less than 1% of the products being sold today have any patent protection at all. And the USPTO estimates that more than 10% of the patents issued in any given year are actually worthless because of incomplete searches prior to issuance... only discovered later when the patent "holder" gets sued by someone with a prior claim. HALF of the challenges made result in the voiding of mistakenly-issued patent rights... and there's NO refunds from your attorney, his search associates, or the USPTO.

See... they think it's all sooooo easy, and just cut and dried. Get the patent... and you're successful. What they won't tell you is the best case scenario is that you don't need it... the same way that the best case scenario is that you don't need your homeowner's policy because nothing bad happened to your house. But, we're not talking about 50 bucks a month in premium. You will spend a significant total... thousands at least, tens of thousands probably, if there's any hope of a meaningful revenue stream. And the protection will not stop many others, who dare you to sue them because they know the cost of a lawsuit outweighs the losses in sales. And if your product is engineered in any way (tools, machinery parts, etc.) stopping the Chinese from stealing it, making it, importing it and undercutting your pricings is impossible. Remember, the government does not enforce patents. The cost of enforcing them lies with one person: you... and it can break you. Patents do NOT protect you. They only give you the right to protect yourself... at your own expense.

Again, to clarify, if you've got something with the potential for some massive revenue generation, then certainly the insurance is worth it. I once worked for a company that had 57 electronic encryption patents that were worth billions in revenue from licensing the software, so I do appreciate the value of protection. The question is... how much do you spend on protection for an estimated revenue stream that doesn't exist yet, and how much of that expense do you divert into product development and marketing?

Should you investigate it? Certainly. Should you file a Provisional Application for Patent? Absolutely. But if there's even a small window of opportunity to profitably sell without the full-blown IP, and make a buck before others enter your market... that's what you should do. Good luck to you and your son. Here's just one more thing you should read, though:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddhix...l-companies-patents-are-just-about-worthless/
 
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