NW Big School Conference (Possible) Changes

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
^ Bingo on Sandusky.

This gets kicked around on here all of the time and nothing is going to change until the NLL changes and I do not see that happening just yet. Everyone throws their football league wish-list out there, which is great, but it leaves many other aspects out of consideration. Such as...

* League stability and travel. The NLL is an 8 team conference and although Perrysburg is outgrowing the league (AW not far behind) the smaller schools like Napoleon and Maumee are still content because the league has stability (for all sports), similar demographics, and relatively short travel.

* NWOhio is bastardized when it comes to big schools. With NWOhio being so manufacturing and blue collar based many of the older communities have been decimated in terms of brain drain and population loss. Heck Fremont Ross' #1 fan on this site lives in CA. With that said, schools like Ross, Findlay, and Lima Sr. are on islands of sorts. Couple that with the fact that Toledo only has two D1 schools and one sees why the TRAC was formed out of necessity amongst schools looking for friends.

* The SBC division that Sandusky is in is as awesome of a division as they come. Strong and competitive. What? Four teams made the playoffs with Clyde winning a title? Wow. No incentive to change.

* The NBC has no incentive to add anyone. Perhaps Elmwood or Woodmore would leave but I do not think so.

No one likes being the smaller school in their respective league but I can also tell you that the thought process that schools like Ross or Woodmore or Maumee would fair better in other leagues if they would be a larger school in the league is short-sighted. Woodmore has been a product of their own dereliction as of late. Retread coaches and lack of youth development. Think about this, Zach Sandwisch (West Virginia), Andrew Bench (BGSU), and Justin Scheits (BGSU) are all Woodmore kids. They'll stay if they have something to stay for. I realize last season was a down year for Ross but the Little Giants would have been dialed in the SBC. Ross has dropped what? Four in a row to Sandusky? I usually stay away from saying anything disparaging about Ross because Fremont fans are the kind that bad mouth the $hit out of their own internally but if an outsider ever says anything it is a giant F you. However, Ross has internal issues it needs to overcome before they talk about swapping leagues.
 

Maple_City_Fan

Well-known member
Heckuva post, IB!

Slight correction; 5 of 6 Lake schools made postseason, and had Bellevue not choked against West Holmes last year, it would have been 5, also. Perkins is the black sheep right now, but now in the process of finding a new Head Coach. And, Pirate Nation always have athletes so they won't be down long.

Yep, Final Four in '18 for Norwalk, and State Champ this past season for Clyde. The pride in these communities are something else.
 

jafo

Member
I might add that Clay would not fare any better in the NLL. I keep hearing that the SBC (the league, not individual schools) wants to add schools to "stay ahead of things". Seems like they should leave well enough alone.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
Clay would fare better. Last year they'd a lost to Perrysburg and AW. If they played a couple TCL teams and Whitmer out of league for rivalry purposes they would have finished 7-3 and made the playoffs.
 

jafo

Member
Clay would fare better. Last year they'd a lost to Perrysburg and AW. If they played a couple TCL teams and Whitmer out of league for rivalry purposes they would have finished 7-3 and made the playoffs.
I stand corrected, I forgot that they went 5-5 last season. Ritzler should have done that well. Oh, well, I'm just waiting to see what coaches have applied to take his place. My informants are pretty silent right now.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
Just curious, in what sports does Toledo City League compete?
The main sports.

Ever since they cut sports at the jr. high and freshman level during the Great Recession some sports have never came back. For instance, I believe only Start, Bowsher, and Waite have wrestling teams and they are all fractions of what they used to be. Same thing can be said with Cross Country but I could not tell you what schools have teams and what ones do not. I know Scott did not have a baseball team a year ago but they are trying to put one together this year. Unsure about Woodward having a baseball team anymore as well? I also believe a couple schools no longer have tennis.
 

jafo

Member
The main sports.

Ever since they cut sports at the jr. high and freshman level during the Great Recession some sports have never came back. For instance, I believe only Start, Bowsher, and Waite have wrestling teams and they are all fractions of what they used to be. Same thing can be said with Cross Country but I could not tell you what schools have teams and what ones do not. I know Scott did not have a baseball team a year ago but they are trying to put one together this year. Unsure about Woodward having a baseball team anymore as well? I also believe a couple schools no longer have tennis.
Thanks, I was hoping they had brought some sports back that they had to cut.
 

scbuckeye99

Active member
The main sports.

Ever since they cut sports at the jr. high and freshman level during the Great Recession some sports have never came back. For instance, I believe only Start, Bowsher, and Waite have wrestling teams and they are all fractions of what they used to be. Same thing can be said with Cross Country but I could not tell you what schools have teams and what ones do not. I know Scott did not have a baseball team a year ago but they are trying to put one together this year. Unsure about Woodward having a baseball team anymore as well? I also believe a couple schools no longer have tennis.
It's sad when one considers that once upon a time schools like Woodward even had Ice Hockey. Heck, Waite, Bowsher, Start all had Ice Hockey at one point I believe.
 
The main sports.

Ever since they cut sports at the jr. high and freshman level during the Great Recession some sports have never came back. For instance, I believe only Start, Bowsher, and Waite have wrestling teams and they are all fractions of what they used to be. Same thing can be said with Cross Country but I could not tell you what schools have teams and what ones do not. I know Scott did not have a baseball team a year ago but they are trying to put one together this year. Unsure about Woodward having a baseball team anymore as well? I also believe a couple schools no longer have tennis.
I can speak on CC they had 4 mens teams Rogers, Bowsher, Waite and Woodward. Women's had 5 with Start being 5th. Total participation is very low with each race only having around 30 runner total.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
Bowsher used to dominate area CC (before the Catholics). Golf as well. Rogers had the TCL's top wrestling program for years. Track too. Waite took that wrestling banner under Amenta just a decade or so ago. I also believe Waite won a state hockey title in the late 70's. Maybe even two. Start dominated NWOhio baseball for about a 25 year stretch. This is exactly what taking away opportunity does that people do not realize. You want as many kids participating in as many sports as you possibly can. It is the sign of a healthy district. Take CC and track for instance. You do not necessarily need equipment or years of skill experience like baseball. I would bet my bottom dollar there are kids roaming the halls at each TCL school who could get their college paid for if there were more opportunities. The schools have still recovered from the last recession. The next recession will hurt even more for those who already have very little resources.
 

Maple_City_Fan

Well-known member
If I recall correctly, Rogers had a well-respected Wrestling Invite back in the 80s. If a school won that puppy, major cred went to winning team.
 
I would imagine that most of the public schools in the TRAC want to get out ASAP.

Clay, Fremont, Findlay, Lima, and even Whitmer. Those schools are struggling to compete for league titles in most sports. Whitmer and Lima have won a few titles in basketball (and Whitmer has won a couple in football), but other than that, the privates have dominated the league in the other sports. I wouldn't be surprised to see those 5 schools try to get out and form a small league if they can find a few other schools to join.
 
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RollingTrain

Active member
I would imagine that most of the public schools in the TRAC want to get out ASAP.

Clay, Fremont, Findlay, Lima, and even Whitmer. Those schools are struggling to compete for league titles in most sports. Whitmer and Lima have cheated their way to a few titles in basketball (and Whitmer has won a couple in football), but other than that, the privates have dominated the league in the other sports. I wouldn't be surprised to see those 5 schools try to get out and form a small league if they can find a few other schools to join.
Exactly where are those schools to be found? That's the problem. There are only a few big schools left.
 

Maple_City_Fan

Well-known member
Clay, Fremont,
Forget SBC Lake; those two would be diced in the NWOAL.

I know some want moves, and I'm certainly liking Ross in Lake, but some of these schools would do them justice having a culture change. The Parochials haven't changed inasmuch as the ones I've been critical of on a consistent basis. When I started going to FCS 40 years ago, these Parochials weren't really fond of playing Ross as is the case vice versa.
 

HighSchoolFB45

Well-known member
I would imagine that most of the public schools in the TRAC want to get out ASAP.

Clay, Fremont, Findlay, Lima, and even Whitmer. Those schools are struggling to compete for league titles in most sports. Whitmer and Lima have cheated their way to a few titles in basketball (and Whitmer has won a couple in football), but other than that, the privates have dominated the league in the other sports. I wouldn't be surprised to see those 5 schools try to get out and form a small league if they can find a few other schools to join.
How have Lima and Whitmer cheat their way to titles in basketball?
 

HighSchoolFB45

Well-known member
Second of all, maybe you missed the year that Lima went to the state championship in basketball. Their 5 starters had been to 5 different schools. Or the time where they had 2 kids from Puerto Rico. Or the countless other kids that just happen to transfer from other surrounding schools. Those kids didn't happen to do that when they had their old coach. Hmmm... a new coach comes around and all of the sudden kids are transferring to Lima like crazy. Sounds fishy.

BirdDog10 is correct. The athletes that grow up in those districts are very good. So why go and get kids from all over the place then?
The “5 different schools” argument is ridiculous. Every kid who lives in Lima wants to play for Lima Senior, unless they aren’t good enough to actually play. Lima Senior had 9 starters on their football team this past season that went to Elida in middle school. It’s how it is. You get more exposure and opportunity playing at Senior High than Elida, LCC, Shawnee, Bath, or Perry. Zavier Simpson, a starter on the team and now plays for Michigan, went to LCC until his dad became the coach at Senior High. Knowing Ruben Flowers’ family personally, he is a Lima boy. As is Jaylin Thomas. I’m not sure about Marquevious Wilson or Rico Stafford but i’m sure they are from Lima also. Those are the 5 starters from the state runner up team. You act like Coach Simpson is out there recruiting kids from Columbus, Cincinnati, Dayton or Toledo for his team. No. He is recruiting from the city of Lima his school is located in, which he should be doing. Lima is loaded with athletes. Lima Senior is a top team in DI, and Shawnee might be the best team in D2. Don’t be jealous because of what they have been able to accomplish on the court
 

Roscoe

Active member
Sandusky isn't going anywhere. Besides, your question poses an irony; Ross basically blew up the TCL and created the TRAC. How's that working out for Little Giants Country?
Check your facts before you start making BS posts like this. Fremont didn’t “blow up” the TCL, they had just joined the TCL while they were in the middle of a huge financial crisis. TPS was about to get rid of sports. The non TPS schools met and decided it was in their best interest to form a new league.
 

Roscoe

Active member
Clay would fare better. Last year they'd a lost to Perrysburg and AW. If they played a couple TCL teams and Whitmer out of league for rivalry purposes they would have finished 7-3 and made the playoffs.
hmmm didn’t I say this in the TRAC thread during the season and I was chastised and ridiculed???
 

scbuckeye99

Active member
First of all,


Second of all, maybe you missed the year that Lima went to the state championship in basketball. Their 5 starters had been to 5 different schools. Or the time where they had 2 kids from Puerto Rico. Or the countless other kids that just happen to transfer from other surrounding schools. Those kids didn't happen to do that when they had their old coach. Hmmm... a new coach comes around and all of the sudden kids are transferring to Lima like crazy. Sounds fishy.

BirdDog10 is correct. The athletes that grow up in those districts are very good. So why go and get kids from all over the place then?
Not sure where you got the part about all five starters being from five different schools. Flowers and Stafford were Lima City from K through 12th grade. Both were studs on the gridiron and hardwood. So your statement there is immediately false and the rest of your statement is well lacking then in credibility.

In all fairness Lima has a "history" of attracting kids from Puerto Rico for some reason. 20 years ago two young men, Jonathan Rivera and Sammy Villegas moved from the PR into Lima and played for Heath. So that situation is nothing new to Lima.

Second, kids want to play for winners. Shawn Allen had some good seasons early in his career but his second half of his head coaching career at LSH was mediocre at best. For whatever reason kids were just not excited about playing for him. Enter Coach Q and kids see a winner who they want to play for. He's charismatic, fun to be around and knows the game. Couple that with the hire of Mike Fell as HFC and you had a one two punch in Lima for the two main sports that you simply couldn't go wrong with. You have a HFC who is born and raised in Lima (Fell) and has won EVERYWHERE he coached. Combine that with Lima's first black Head BB coach who also was born and raised in Lima. The season Lima went to state in Bball you had a basketball team that featured many of it's football stars (Rico, Reuben and Jay Thomas). Football success transitioned into Bball success. Remember, when Jay Thomas transferred over from Shawnee they (Shawnee) were HORRIBLE in both football and basketball. If you're Jay, whose dad went to LSH and you see a chance to succeed at your old man's alma mater you take it. Rico and Reuben were diamonds in the rough that had Fell and Simpson not been hired would've maybe never even played either sport.
 

BirdDog10

Active member
Not sure where you got the part about all five starters being from five different schools. Flowers and Stafford were Lima City from K through 12th grade. Both were studs on the gridiron and hardwood. So your statement there is immediately false and the rest of your statement is well lacking then in credibility.

In all fairness Lima has a "history" of attracting kids from Puerto Rico for some reason. 20 years ago two young men, Jonathan Rivera and Sammy Villegas moved from the PR into Lima and played for Heath. So that situation is nothing new to Lima.

Second, kids want to play for winners. Shawn Allen had some good seasons early in his career but his second half of his head coaching career at LSH was mediocre at best. For whatever reason kids were just not excited about playing for him. Enter Coach Q and kids see a winner who they want to play for. He's charismatic, fun to be around and knows the game. Couple that with the hire of Mike Fell as HFC and you had a one two punch in Lima for the two main sports that you simply couldn't go wrong with. You have a HFC who is born and raised in Lima (Fell) and has won EVERYWHERE he coached. Combine that with Lima's first black Head BB coach who also was born and raised in Lima. The season Lima went to state in Bball you had a basketball team that featured many of it's football stars (Rico, Reuben and Jay Thomas). Football success transitioned into Bball success. Remember, when Jay Thomas transferred over from Shawnee they (Shawnee) were HORRIBLE in both football and basketball. If you're Jay, whose dad went to LSH and you see a chance to succeed at your old man's alma mater you take it. Rico and Reuben were diamonds in the rough that had Fell and Simpson not been hired would've maybe never even played either sport.
If you look at Lima throughout the past 30 years, it's just a constant shifting of talent from one Lima school (including Elida) to the next. Whichever school has the new successful coach or the recent track record of success is the one that gets the athletes from all over the city. LIke it or not that's just the way it is in Lima.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
Whitmer only settled with OHSAA because the Washington Local School BOE demanded it. The defense was very costly.

Old news anyway. Brought up by a troll. If only people knew the real story it would make their heads spin but again, old news.

There is still a couple hacks out there that recruit like mad men yet call OHSAA anytime a rival infringes on their "turf." As Toledo experiences more and more brain drain it is funny watching all of the privates in the area fight over a smaller pie.

Back on point. Once one of the dominoes fall the rest of the leagues will alter as well. NLL is the kingpin.
 
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