It's time for football only league(s) to solve some these issues IMOYeah lol I was referring to Football only here. I'd agree CHS as well, expanding beyond 8 or 10 is idiotic.
The 6 team alignment is a stupid idea unless they're going to mandate crossover games. The SBC clearly showed this is a failure of an idea long term, Oak Harbor bolted the second they could. Lets be honest, Football is the only one where scheduling really matters. All other sports are pretty local when it comes to games
Too late to transfer back???In other NWO football news, allegedly the running back McCoy from SFS is transferring to Whitmer, probably due to Chipka leaving.
Obviously this is sports-driven, but (and this is me being genuinely curious) is he within the WLS district or is this Whitmer beginning to flex those open-enrollment muscles? (No, I’m not crying recruitment, good for them to utilize that for program success, if it is the case anyways)
Regardless, it’s a win for both parties involved if true. McCoy escapes what is sure to be a down year for SFS while getting more attention and Whitmer gets a very solid offensive weapon.
Yeah lol I was referring to Football only here. I'd agree CHS as well, expanding beyond 8 or 10 is idiotic.
The 6 team alignment is a stupid idea unless they're going to mandate crossover games. The SBC clearly showed this is a failure of an idea long term, Oak Harbor bolted the second they could. Lets be honest, Football is the only one where scheduling really matters. All other sports are pretty local when it comes to games
The NLL members invited these schools, you get what you asked for. Either man up and play it out, or do crossover games based on last years rankings.Far more leagues have fallen apart because they HAD mandatory crossovers than ones that fell apart because they didn't.
The last thing the NLL needs to do is tell Napoleon you HAVE to play Whitmer. A lot of crossovers will naturally happen because it's a tight geographical area and the schools are familiar with each other. Start mandating games between big and small schools, you're guaranteed it all falls apart.
What if they don't want to?The NLL members invited these schools, you get what you asked for. Either man up and play it out, or do crossover games based on last years rankings.
The NLL members invited these schools, you get what you asked for. Either man up and play it out, or do crossover games based on last years rankings.
The SBC Bay will only be six teams for two more years. Then they have to make some decisions for their football alignment.Yeah clearly you don't fully grasp what's actually going on here.
They didn't add schools because everyone wants to play everyone. They added because their was a growing divide between the big schools and small schools that long term threatened the entire league's existence.
Big and small divisions will work just fine, assuming they find a 12th. They'll function well as basically 2 separate leagues under one umbrella, with the benefit of flexibility should things drastically change. And again, there will be plenty of crossovers, because there's no way the Southviews and Bowling Greens of the conference DON'T play the Springfields and Perrysburg that are right next door. No reason to ever have mandatory crossovers in a 12 team league. 14 is different because lining up byes is easier than trying to find a game week 6-10, but in a world where the SBC Lake, SBC River, and TCL are all 6 teams, the privates are independent, and who knows what is going to happen in the NWOAL, there's plenty of games to go around week 4 and 5.
I will say this. If they end up at 11, I think no divisions is the way to go. You'd have to go 6 or 8 game league schedule (7 leaves an odd number of games and someone playing 6 or 8 anyway), so I'd go with either deciding who doesn't play by size or by the last 2 years standings at that point. Or if they DO have divisions, I'd honestly give the big division the 5. They have the privates available for byes, but I can't see the small schools wanting to play them. 11 is a weird number, but can be done. They'd just be better at 12.
Oh no I grasp it. What I'm saying is this is a recipe for failure unless they get 16 teams. The whole multi-division league or the 6 team league is just not really a sustainable long term option in NW Ohio. The GBC failed relatively quickly and now the SBC is implodingYeah clearly you don't fully grasp what's actually going on here.
They didn't add schools because everyone wants to play everyone. They added because their was a growing divide between the big schools and small schools that long term threatened the entire league's existence.
Big and small divisions will work just fine, assuming they find a 12th. They'll function well as basically 2 separate leagues under one umbrella, with the benefit of flexibility should things drastically change. And again, there will be plenty of crossovers, because there's no way the Southviews and Bowling Greens of the conference DON'T play the Springfields and Perrysburg that are right next door. No reason to ever have mandatory crossovers in a 12 team league. 14 is different because lining up byes is easier than trying to find a game week 6-10, but in a world where the SBC Lake, SBC River, and TCL are all 6 teams, the privates are independent, and who knows what is going to happen in the NWOAL, there's plenty of games to go around week 4 and 5.
I will say this. If they end up at 11, I think no divisions is the way to go. You'd have to go 6 or 8 game league schedule (7 leaves an odd number of games and someone playing 6 or 8 anyway), so I'd go with either deciding who doesn't play by size or by the last 2 years standings at that point. Or if they DO have divisions, I'd honestly give the big division the 5. They have the privates available for byes, but I can't see the small schools wanting to play them. 11 is a weird number, but can be done. They'd just be better at 12.
The Greater Buckeye Conference was never going to last anyway.Oh no I grasp it. What I'm saying is this is a recipe for failure unless they get 16 teams. The whole multi-division league or the 6 team league is just not really a sustainable long term option in NW Ohio. The GBC failed relatively quickly and now the SBC is imploding
And to be honest I doubt this NLL does. My opinion though so we'll see what happensThe Greater Buckeye Conference was never going to last anyway.
And to be honest I doubt this NLL does. My opinion though so we'll see what happens
Thank youThe Greater Buckeye Conference was never going to last anyway.
And that's not even AP Math.The board is set to change page every 30 posts. 30 times 100....
And that's not even AP Math.
Taught AP Euro for a few yearsNo, there is no designated pacing to an AP course and as I wrote, no particular teaching requirements. AP tests are monitored in-house.. It's not an everyone goes to the local university to take a test as SATs used to be. Anything thought otherwise is just part of the sales program on the part of the high school and on the part of College Board. College Board is huge business as is any text-book or the myriad of SEL programs, classroom and school supplies for sale. Conventions, drinking, smoozing... Like any business.
I'll repeat MY opinion, A school selling they offer x number of AP courses as opposed to x number of Honors courses is just selling the program they think parents want to hear and in a way, saying they are less capable of developing and presenting curriculum taylored to their students (thought the competent teacher will do that anyways).
If there's a choice (AP, Honors, CCP, even regular) choose the teacher, choose the desired course. Taking an AP of no interest in-place of an elective in which a student has an interest and a skill? To each their own choice but "AP" designation means nothing to the University, they already have SATs, ACTs,.. and are starting to put those aside. Universities pride and sell themselves on having their own curriculum (though often they have to teach state), not something purchased out of a box. Why would they value one box curriculum over another?
Performance on boards, leadership, community involvment, demographics and "over-coming" are the path to competitive entrance. If they have a choice, they're going to choose someone who will represent and/or endow the University. They're looking for future performers, not past performers.
100 pages have been completed. Like Boston, I'm feeling satisfied.Right. But, as opposed to 50 pages of 1,500 posts, or 66 2/3 pages of 2,000 posts...I wonder if Yappi knows what the longest ever thread is.
Yeah, I'm well familiar.Taught AP Euro for a few years
a. There IS a pacing guide.....sorta. Not sure I'd call it a pacing guide but there is definitely a framework for the course and what to teach.
b. College Board will let you teach an AP course for one year before you have to go get your certification
c. My school 8-9 years ago when it was a huge deal to be mentioned in Newsweeks top 1000 high schools (or whatever it was) had a Statue of Liberty policy for AP. Two years in a row I had 3 sections of AP Euro with 35 kids in each section. It was an absolute nightmare to grade 105 DBQ essays in a week. The Newsweek methodology put a premium on how many AP tests were being taken at your respective school with little regard for the pass rate (3 or higher). IMPO Advanced Placement classes need to be limited to those who actually need to be in them and should never be more than 20 kids per section tops!!!!
d. When doing my AP US History certification the course instructor and I got into it over which was better for kids? AP or having a high school teacher get certified as an adjunct college professor and teach the same exact curriculum as the local community college / university so the kid can receive actual real time credit from that partnered CC. Lima Senior does this with the University of Findlay's English Dept. (or at least they use to a few years ago)
e. Buddy of mine who graduated in 1998 got a 5 on the AP Lit Exam his senior year. Bowling Green was only willing to give him ENG 101 (Freshman Comp). He grabbed his folders and binders of all the work he did in his AP Lit class and drove up to BG from Lima to meet with the English Dept chair. Came home with ENG 101 and ENG 102 credits haha. Apparently the AP Lit class at Lima Senior back in the 90s did more work than ENG 101 and 102 at BGSU did combined.
FWIW my professional opinion on AP is divided. I enjoyed / enjoy teaching those courses but I think it's incredibly unfair that kids who take HIST 101 at the University of Toledo only go to class 2-3 times a week, they get a mid-term, a final and probably some research paper to determine their grade while kids taking APUSH base their entire chance of getting college credit on one test on one day. I got a 3 on the APUSH test back in high school. UT gave me HIST 103?? (US History up to Reconstruction). I took HIST 104 my freshman year and it was the easiest thing I ever sat through. Comparing APUSH to a college history survey course is apples to oranges IMO.
Yeah, I'm well familiar.
a. There is a pacing guide. There is no MANDATED pacing. The state also has those. They're called "standards."
At first AP SOLD just that, a "guide." Teachers used their traditional materials. Then they SOLD workbooks, which are not mandated to be used. Teachers still used traditional textbooks or their own materials. Now College Board sells textbooks, which are not mandated to be used. There is nothing else there that any school, public or private wasn't doing before College Board went into business. They sell curriculum materials and a name on a test.
Colleges and Universities already have their triage systems. ACT, SAT, on-site placement tests. Individual standards. They have no need for AP tests to help with placement. If a student scored a one on an AP test and killed their SAT or on-site placement, guess which one the college is going to respect? Reverse the roles and the AP test means nothing if the SAT/ACT/on-site placement comes in crap.
b. You do not have to get certified to teach an AP course, even after one year unless that is a VERY recent thing. You CAN get "certified." AP will gladly take a district's money, regardless any certification. They are being paid to provide a test.
d. as scams go, don't get me started on College Credit Plus...
e. If that student had taken the Honors English from that same teacher, the student would have been in the exact same boat. In the beginning, teachers teaching AP had to use their own materials or books from standard textbook companies. Then AP started selling workbooks. Now AP is selling textbooks.
Really, AP is just a test. That's ultimately what they are. A paid for test. A reputable district already has that. Every district, school, private, public already has everything AP supplies except the name on a test. That's why AP is irrelevant to Universities for anything other than a selling point. If a kid got an A in a reputable Honors English class, their boards and placement tests would take care of the rest as far as college credit.
As I said previously, if a kid dies on the College Board's AP test but does well on CollegeBoard's SAT, You think CB is going to step in and say, University, this kid isn't qualified?An admitance officer at Duke once told me: "We know what the results of an AP test mean. We don't know what it means to pass an honors course at a random high school or to have a college credit from Southeast Northwestern Community College".
Depends on your definition of mandated. If you want your kids to have a fighting chance you should probably stick to a year long script of some sort. If you're just gonna wing it as a teacher then so help your students.Yeah, I'm well familiar.
a. There is a pacing guide. There is no MANDATED pacing. The state also has those. They're called "standards."
At first AP SOLD just that, a "guide." Teachers used their traditional materials. Then they SOLD workbooks, which are not mandated to be used. Teachers still used traditional textbooks or their own materials. Now College Board sells textbooks, which are not mandated to be used. There is nothing else there that any school, public or private wasn't doing before College Board went into business. They sell curriculum materials and a name on a test.
Colleges and Universities already have their triage systems. ACT, SAT, on-site placement tests. Individual standards. They have no need for AP tests to help with placement. If a student scored a one on an AP test and killed their SAT or on-site placement, guess which one the college is going to respect? Reverse the roles and the AP test means nothing if the SAT/ACT/on-site placement comes in crap.
b. You do not have to get certified to teach an AP course, even after one year unless that is a VERY recent thing. You CAN get "certified." AP will gladly take a district's money, regardless any certification. They are being paid to provide a test.
d. as scams go, don't get me started on College Credit Plus...
e. If that student had taken the Honors English from that same teacher, the student would have been in the exact same boat. In the beginning, teachers teaching AP had to use their own materials or books from standard textbook companies. Then AP started selling workbooks. Now AP is selling textbooks.
Really, AP is just a test. That's ultimately what they are. A paid for test. A reputable district already has that. Every district, school, private, public already has everything AP supplies except the name on a test. That's why AP is irrelevant to Universities for anything other than a selling point. If a kid got an A in a reputable Honors English class, their boards and placement tests would take care of the rest as far as college credit.
Colleges and Universities have recently been shying away from ACT / SAT test scores. Wrestler of mine (class of 2020) just finished his freshman year at Davidson College down here. During his recruitment the coaching staff said that even though his ACT was a tick below where a normal student would need to be able to get in, because he had taken only IB and AP classes his junior and senior year the coaching staff was confident they could get him in because the admissions board would be impressed with his course load.Yeah, I'm well familiar.
a. There is a pacing guide. There is no MANDATED pacing. The state also has those. They're called "standards."
At first AP SOLD just that, a "guide." Teachers used their traditional materials. Then they SOLD workbooks, which are not mandated to be used. Teachers still used traditional textbooks or their own materials. Now College Board sells textbooks, which are not mandated to be used. There is nothing else there that any school, public or private wasn't doing before College Board went into business. They sell curriculum materials and a name on a test.
Colleges and Universities already have their triage systems. ACT, SAT, on-site placement tests. Individual standards. They have no need for AP tests to help with placement. If a student scored a one on an AP test and killed their SAT or on-site placement, guess which one the college is going to respect? Reverse the roles and the AP test means nothing if the SAT/ACT/on-site placement comes in crap.
b. You do not have to get certified to teach an AP course, even after one year unless that is a VERY recent thing. You CAN get "certified." AP will gladly take a district's money, regardless any certification. They are being paid to provide a test.
d. as scams go, don't get me started on College Credit Plus...
e. If that student had taken the Honors English from that same teacher, the student would have been in the exact same boat. In the beginning, teachers teaching AP had to use their own materials or books from standard textbook companies. Then AP started selling workbooks. Now AP is selling textbooks.
Really, AP is just a test. That's ultimately what they are. A paid for test. A reputable district already has that. Every district, school, private, public already has everything AP supplies except the name on a test. That's why AP is irrelevant to Universities for anything other than a selling point. If a kid got an A in a reputable Honors English class, their boards and placement tests would take care of the rest as far as college credit.
Colleges and Universities have recently been shying away from ACT / SAT test scores. Wrestler of mine (class of 2020) just finished his freshman year at Davidson College down here. During his recruitment the coaching staff said that even though his ACT was a tick below where a normal student would need to be able to get in, because he had taken only IB and AP classes his junior and senior year the coaching staff was confident they could get him in because the admissions board would be impressed with his course load.
What is this "AP Certification" that you speak of?Taught AP Euro for a few years
a. There IS a pacing guide.....sorta. Not sure I'd call it a pacing guide but there is definitely a framework for the course and what to teach.
b. College Board will let you teach an AP course for one year before you have to go get your certification
c. My school 8-9 years ago when it was a huge deal to be mentioned in Newsweeks top 1000 high schools (or whatever it was) had a Statue of Liberty policy for AP. Two years in a row I had 3 sections of AP Euro with 35 kids in each section. It was an absolute nightmare to grade 105 DBQ essays in a week. The Newsweek methodology put a premium on how many AP tests were being taken at your respective school with little regard for the pass rate (3 or higher). IMPO Advanced Placement classes need to be limited to those who actually need to be in them and should never be more than 20 kids per section tops!!!!
d. When doing my AP US History certification the course instructor and I got into it over which was better for kids? AP or having a high school teacher get certified as an adjunct college professor and teach the same exact curriculum as the local community college / university so the kid can receive actual real time credit from that partnered CC. Lima Senior does this with the University of Findlay's English Dept. (or at least they use to a few years ago)
e. Buddy of mine who graduated in 1998 got a 5 on the AP Lit Exam his senior year. Bowling Green was only willing to give him ENG 101 (Freshman Comp). He grabbed his folders and binders of all the work he did in his AP Lit class and drove up to BG from Lima to meet with the English Dept chair. Came home with ENG 101 and ENG 102 credits haha. Apparently the AP Lit class at Lima Senior back in the 90s did more work than ENG 101 and 102 at BGSU did combined.
FWIW my professional opinion on AP is divided. I enjoyed / enjoy teaching those courses but I think it's incredibly unfair that kids who take HIST 101 at the University of Toledo only go to class 2-3 times a week, they get a mid-term, a final and probably some research paper to determine their grade while kids taking APUSH base their entire chance of getting college credit on one test on one day. I got a 3 on the APUSH test back in high school. UT gave me HIST 103?? (US History up to Reconstruction). I took HIST 104 my freshman year and it was the easiest thing I ever sat through. Comparing APUSH to a college history survey course is apples to oranges IMO.
Isn't though their an indicator on the ODE report card for each school where schools get graded by the % of their their students that take AP courses or the # of AP courses offered?As I said previously, if a kid dies on the College Board's AP test but does well on CollegeBoard's SAT, You think CB is going to step in and say, University, this kid isn't qualified?
Duke knows what an SAT(also College Board)/ACT and their placement means. They will take an AP 5 (about 20% of those taking) for certain low level course credit. There is no mandate they do that. It's sales. Otherwise, it's worthless to them. The kid can get that credit with their SAT/ACT/placement tests also without ever having taken an "AP" course.
- To teach an AP course you do not need a certification. You do not have to pass a test in order to teach an AP course. You do not need a state certitication in the field in which you teach. You do not need a college degree in the course you teach. You do not need to show a certain success rate in order to keep teaching AP. They say you need a "related" degree but I cannot find anywhere a teacher was forbidden to teach an AP course.
- As far as I can find, a school needs no special qualifications to offer AP. I can't find any school, let alone district that has had their ability to teach AP revoked.
- CollegeBoard has no requirements or standards which must be met by students to take AP. There is no "test-in."
CB has little to no requirements for Teachers, districts or students in order to participate in AP other than pay the money. But we're better if we offer 20 of them? School pays the money, pays for their tests, they get to say they offer "AP." It's product, nothing more.
CollegeBoard for all the fancy official sounding name is just a one billion ("non-profit") business (with new start-ups happening daily to get in on the pork) spreading out money and influence to make money. There is nothing special about an AP curriculum. There is no proven value added advantage. Same kid out of any other course covering the same material would have exactly the same statitics on the AP tests.
There's "cache'" to saying "I teach an AP course" or our school offers 20 AP courses. It's kool-aid, nothing more.